Prayer and God's Will

[Siloam]

I'm sorry but I disagree with you pov.
You're saying it's all pre-planned ( predestined), and God just lets ignorant man blunder all over by his free will....which I'm not sure you believe in.....and still falls into his plan?

It cannot be both! He does not predestine some to walk his way and others against his way.

I do agree he knows everything from start to finish who will and who won't, but he gave his only begotten son that ALL may!

God said it repented him that he had made man,he changes his mind many times in scripture and who knows he may again before the end. He is NOT SET, for he is God and can do as he wishes. We try to LIMIT him by our finite thinking.

We are to follow God,not a man made thought or interpretation. The WORD is the light and lamp unto our feet,not man!

But the marvelous thing is that God does know how we will use our free will and is still sovereign over all. His knowledge of our choices throughout our life does not force those choices upon us. We are not so much "blundering all over by our free will as you indicated as it is God knowing our choices and allowing our choices and weaving them into His plan.

When one is performing the analysis, one must start by deciding which point of view to use as basis.

If you choose to analyze the choices man makes frpm man's point of view, you find that God never over-rides the choice itself, though He does counteract some of the effects, and even incorporate those choices in His plan. From this point of view free will exists because God allows it (This is His permissive will).

But, if you choose to analyze from God's point of view God knows EVERY decision each of us makes. This does not impose His will on our decision, only that we are unable to "surprise" God.

So a complete understanding of the issue must allow both His knowledge and the choices He allows us to make.

When scripture says God changed His mind, what it indicates is that God is projecting His thoughts and actions into Man's point of view for our benefit. This is necessary because we experience time as a sequence of discrete moments.

The Past is a fading memory.
The present is what we experience and is always changing.
The future is only anticipated.

But God who is unlimited and outside of time experiences all.

So whatever sin I commit is always before Him, as are my prayers of confession and my acts and thoughts of worship.

 

[2404]

Could prayer also serve as a means of aligning us with understanding of who we are?
In our fallen condition we are prone to be bond/directed by our sense experience.

 

[D3vot3d2G0d]

But the marvelous thing is that God does know how we will use our free will and is still sovereign over all. His knowledge of our choices throughout our life does not force those choices upon us. We are not so much "blundering all over by our free will as you indicated as it is God knowing our choices and allowing our choices and weaving them into His plan.

When one is performing the analysis, one must start by deciding which point of view to use as basis.

If you choose to analyze the choices man makes frpm man's point of view, you find that God never over-rides the choice itself, though He does counteract some of the effects, and even incorporate those choices in His plan. From this point of view free will exists because God allows it (This is His permissive will).

But, if you choose to analyze from God's point of view God knows EVERY decision each of us makes. This does not impose His will on our decision, only that we are unable to "surprise" God.

So a complete understanding of the issue must allow both His knowledge and the choices He allows us to make.

When scripture says God changed His mind, what it indicates is that God is projecting His thoughts and actions into Man's point of view for our benefit. This is necessary because we experience time as a sequence of discrete moments.

The Past is a fading memory.
The present is what we experience and is always changing.
The future is only anticipated.

But God who is unlimited and outside of time experiences all.

So whatever sin I commit is always before Him, as are my prayers of confession and my acts and thoughts of worship.

This is circular illogical thinking that is not bibical,therefore I strongly disagree with this post as well.

Sounds like you are a mix of several man made theological interpretations.

I believe what thus says the word not some sci- fi quantum leap.

We're done,thank you for your time.

 

[Siloam]

This is circular illogical thinking that is not bibical,therefore I strongly disagree with this post as well.

Sounds like you are a mix of several man made theological interpretations.

I believe what thus says the word not some sci- fi quantum leap.

We're done,thank you for your time.

Please...
I agree that my views are unconventional, but if you examine them closely, they give a handle on several points from how prayer works to the tension between predestination and eternal security, to possible insights into the new heaven and earth in Rev 21.

So, could you tell me why you term this circular? It is certainly complex and possibly entails an exception to 'normal' cause effect relationships until one examines each facet closely.

 

[D3vot3d2G0d]

Please...
I agree that my views are unconventional, but if you examine them closely, they give a handle on several points from how prayer works to the tension between predestination and eternal security, to possible insights into the new heaven and earth in Rev 21.

So, could you tell me why you term this circular? It is certainly complex and possibly entails an exception to 'normal' cause effect relationships until one examines each facet closely.

I am not trying to be antagonistic but I just accept his word as it is. If it's literal,that's how I see it,same as with allegories,parables,symbols and the many ways God speaks to us.

I know that OUR marking of time is nothing more than a drop in the bucket compared to a day with the Lord is as a thousand years.
Maybe my finite mind cannot comprehend the infinity of time. However I do not see it as circular, for this reason,we are born ,we die, to me there is zero full loop here.

The word says that when we repent,he cast our sins into the sea NEVER to be remembered and cast them as far as the East is from the West. My sins are not before him and IF I sin,my advocate, Jesus does the same if I confess and repent of said sin.

Our prayers are held in golden vials in heaven Rev.
5: 8
Our prayers will be mixed with the incense and the smoke will ascend up before God out of the angels hand. Rev.8:3/4

Rev. 21 ,I see no insights by what you've said.

I am strictly a believer in the word,man may say the earth is billions of years old. From creation until now we are historically told of 6000 years with time marked by generations. Man once lived almost a 1000 years but bc of the evil and rejection of God that time has been shortened to about 70 yrs. Man has cheated himself as well as God of lifetimes of praise and worship.

My choice is what God says not science. We bring upon ourselves misery by trying to have God be by what we think instead of Alpha and Omega,the beginning and the end.

 

[bobinfaith]

Absolutely! Can you picture in your mind God describing Himself to men as "I am ..." followed by innumerable words that exactly convey His nature. The problem being that an exact portrayal of His nature would consist of words we had never encountered since God is actually unlike anything we ever encounter apart from Him. But, He can and does place things that are analogous to His nature all around us. ... Brings to mind a song by Carroll Roberson that is on an album my wife likes to play. A line goes something like: "In a mothers wrinkled hand and a father as a gentle man I see God every where".

"When scripture says God changed His mind," what it indicates is that God is projecting His thoughts and actions into Man's point of view for our benefit. This is necessary because we experience time as a sequence of discrete moments. The Past is a fading memory. The present is what we experience and is always changing. The future is only anticipated. But God who is unlimited and outside of time experiences all. So whatever sin I commit is always before Him, as are my prayers of confession and my acts and thoughts of worship.

Hello Siloam;

In this topic we are trying to explain for or against God changing His mind but the Scriptures do point to His change of mind "within the realm of His will be done" which is KEY.

Exodus 32:14 is an excellent example of God changing His mind and in various translations change of mind is replaced with "reconsidered, relented or repented", all pointing to God's change of mind, because He saw Moses' heart and intervention of prayer for His people.

Again, this change of mind is within the realm of God's ultimate Will be done. For example,

Moses’ prayer led God to give mercy to the people, but would ultimately be placed in judgment. God reserves that right, and though He relented and revealed His mercy, would purge that sinful generation who would not enter the Promised Land.

God bless you, brother, and your family.