Preventing Pregnancy Displeases Thee Lord

[LysanderShapiro]

I apologize for arguing earlier. But I thought I'd just give my opinion on the subject.

Preventing pregnancy is okay.

Destroying an existing pregnancy is not.

Now I don't really know enough about birth control to know if it works before or after conception, but I think condoms and such are not sin.

Some forms of contraception do in fact act as almost "home abortion kits" where the very beginning stages of the embryo will be flushed out.

But the reason why contraception is explicitly a sin is obvious; it dismisses all possibility of using God's gift of sex the way he authorized it. It's disobedience.

When contraception became more popular and accepted by people, God didn't decide to change His mind. The only ones who did were the many of the Christians. Most of them out of convenience. But the destruction birth control has had to society is far more great than people realize; an increase of divorces and infidelities, an increase of objectifying women, and a far bigger increase of abortion.

Yet despite all these things, people refuse to admit that the condoning of contraception is strongly part of it.

 

[ASUK]

But the destruction birth control has had to society is far more great than people realize; an increase of divorces and infidelities, an increase of objectifying women, and a far bigger increase of abortion.

Did you know that correlation does not imply causation? There are so many other factors that cause divorce, infidelities, etc.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Did you know that correlation does not imply causation? There are so many other factors that cause divorce, infidelities, etc.

I never denied that. In fact, I'd argue accepting birth control as being OK isn't the cause at all -- just another symptom...but it's one of the many gateway symptoms.

I'm also not making this claim on my own behalf -- it's not my own theory -- this was proposed back in the 1960s in the Humanae Vitae encyclical. The predictions came to fruition in regards to contraception.

 

[Sweet Pea]

I've always wondered if contraception is okay with God or not. I do not agree with certain methods because they not only prevent pregnancy, but if a pregnancy does happen (egg is fertilized), they make it so the fertilized egg cannot implant in the uterus. I believe the pill and IUD do this (among others). So, definitely no to these types. As far as others (condoms, diaphram)... I'm not sure. I think Natural Family Planning IS a form of birth control (similar to withdrawal). Not having sex because you know you could get pregnant is the same thing, IMO. It is considered a form of birth control to Planned Parenthood, too!

So, are these forms of birth control okay with God, or not? Are some okay and others not? Are none of them okay? Are we ever going to get a sure answer? I don't know, but I think it's worth discussing.

 

[naomanos]

I wonder what the opinion would be regarding my wife and I?

We have a daughter, she is 19 months old. When she was born, and with my wife's multiple sclerosis, the birth nearly put my wife into a wheelchair for the rest of her life. With my wife's MS, the pregnancy and birth was extremely hard on her body. Thankfully, she is not in a wheelchair more than usual these days, however, she isn't able to do all the things that she would like to do with our daughter because she is physically not capable and this is mentally/psychologically hard on her.

Neither of us want another child (I have five others from a previous non-marital relationship) because just having one is hard enough on my wife. To add a second, may put her into that wheelchair for life and she will feel even more worse because then she will have two children that she will be able to do normal motherly things with.

She gets upset because she cannot even hold our daughter for more than a couple minutes standing up. Someone always has to be with her because she cannot always handle her alone. She also cannot keep up with our daughter, even in our small apartment.

So for us, some form of contraception is needed.

 

[Sweet Pea]

I wonder what the opinion would be regarding my wife and I?

We have a daughter, she is 19 months old. When she was born, and with my wife's multiple sclerosis, the birth nearly put my wife into a wheelchair for the rest of her life. With my wife's MS, the pregnancy and birth was extremely hard on her body. Thankfully, she is not in a wheelchair more than usual these days, however, she isn't able to do all the things that she would like to do with our daughter because she is physically not capable and this is mentally/psychologically hard on her.

Neither of us want another child (I have five others from a previous non-marital relationship) because just having one is hard enough on my wife. To add a second, may put her into that wheelchair for life and she will feel even more worse because then she will have two children that she will be able to do normal motherly things with.

She gets upset because she cannot even hold our daughter for more than a couple minutes standing up. Someone always has to be with her because she cannot always handle her alone. She also cannot keep up with our daughter, even in our small apartment.

So for us, some form of contraception is needed.

I would pray about it and ask God to give you peace over the matter. I'm curious as to what those who say "no birth control ever" would say about this one, also. I don't say that sarcastically, as I haven't come to a definite conclusion about birth control, myself.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I've always wondered if contraception is okay with God or not. I do not agree with certain methods because they not only prevent pregnancy, but if a pregnancy does happen (egg is fertilized), they make it so the fertilized egg cannot implant in the uterus. I believe the pill and IUD do this (among others). So, definitely no to these types. As far as others (condoms, diaphram)... I'm not sure. I think Natural Family Planning IS a form of birth control (similar to withdrawal). Not having sex because you know you could get pregnant is the same thing, IMO. It is considered a form of birth control to Planned Parenthood, too!

So, are these forms of birth control okay with God, or not? Are some okay and others not? Are none of them okay? Are we ever going to get a sure answer? I don't know, but I think it's worth discussing.

Indeed, it's a worth-while discussion.
Some people do consider NFP to be a form of birth control because they count it as no different from the rhythm method and excuse the motivation behind it. It isn't however because

The reason why abstaining from sex is not birth control is because birth control takes place in the activity of sex and intends to impede any openness to pregnancy. That's why abstaining isn't birth control. Planned Parenthood does consider this birth control because they've defined it as any means to not get pregnant, including the act of abstinence. Of course they're wrong because abstinence means zero sexual activity. When an engaged couple abstains because they recognize sex is a gift that comes with marriage, they aren't practicing birth control, they are practicing abstinence.

One ought to divide the difference between birth regulation and birth control -- birth control involves a selfishness of acting outside God's blueprint of sex which is immoral. Birth regulation, like if someone were to abstain, does not violate the means of sex.

Onan was guilty of birth control because he actively sought out to have sex and avoid every means of life beginning, which objectified her and disobeyed God.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I wonder what the opinion would be regarding my wife and I?

We have a daughter, she is 19 months old. When she was born, and with my wife's multiple sclerosis, the birth nearly put my wife into a wheelchair for the rest of her life. With my wife's MS, the pregnancy and birth was extremely hard on her body. Thankfully, she is not in a wheelchair more than usual these days, however, she isn't able to do all the things that she would like to do with our daughter because she is physically not capable and this is mentally/psychologically hard on her.

Neither of us want another child (I have five others from a previous non-marital relationship) because just having one is hard enough on my wife. To add a second, may put her into that wheelchair for life and she will feel even more worse because then she will have two children that she will be able to do normal motherly things with.

She gets upset because she cannot even hold our daughter for more than a couple minutes standing up. Someone always has to be with her because she cannot always handle her alone. She also cannot keep up with our daughter, even in our small apartment.

So for us, some form of contraception is needed.

That's a very poignant question.

 

[ASUK]

That's a very poignant question.

So what does God tell you about this?

 

[LysanderShapiro]

So what does God tell you about this?

What do you mean what He tells me? I'm not expressing my own personal views -- I'm expressing the Christian view on birth control. Only in recent years have many Christians decided to neglect it. However as a Christian, I want to do my best to obey Him, even when some things aren't so clear to me.

I think we should address that underlying fact.

I think it's a good understanding as to why some might have an understandable argument for it, just as the argument for couples who may have one half suffering with HIV.

That said, understandable doesn't mean acceptable. I can't say I know for sure. I only know the Christian stance on performing sex while actively dodging all possibility of life.

 

[ASUK]

What do you mean what He tells me? I'm not expressing my own personal views --

That's why I asked you what God tells you. I didn't say what is your personal opinion. Did you read it wrong?

 

[LysanderShapiro]

That's why I asked you what God tells you. I didn't say what is your personal opinion. Did you read it wrong?

I may have read it wrong. If you're asking what I think about birth control, I believe it's absolutely wrong because to practice it is to practice defiance to God.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I had a great conversation with a fellow parishioner yesterday. I had mentioned how I visit a forum and a discussion on birth control and NFP came up and the statements made here.

He and his wife teach classes on NFP and the physical and spiritual harms of birth control. I played devil's advocate and argued why NFP is birth control, though I don't hold that position -- some do.

He made an excellent analogy. He said it is like comparing two women who are making an effort to stay trim. The first woman eats healthy, exercises, sacrifices a little bit, and practices temperance. The second woman is bulimic, doesn't practice temperance, but purges what she eats in order to stay trim.

One is an act of temperance and prudence, the other is an act of binging and avoiding temperance.

 

[naomanos]

I may have read it wrong. If you're asking what I think about birth control, I believe it's absolutely wrong because to practice it is to practice defiance to God.

So even in my case, birth control is wrong? So we should just allow a pregnancy, have my wife put into a wheelchair the rest of her life, as well as cause more mental/psychological harm?

I do not think birth control is as black and white as you make it. This is another reason why I have left Catholicism for good.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

So even in my case, birth control is wrong? So we should just allow a pregnancy, have my wife put into a wheelchair the rest of her life, as well as cause more mental/psychological harm?

I do not think birth control is as black and white as you make it.

I agree it's not a black and white case because in some cases, like yours, it's not a subject of simply wanting to just have sex to try to avoid pregnancy. I would never suggest that.

There is a definite position on obedience to God, and no one has the authority to decide whether it is right or wrong, no matter the situation.

 

[naomanos]

I agree it's not a black and white case because in some cases, like yours, it's not a subject of simply wanting to just have sex to try to avoid pregnancy. I would never suggest that.

There is a definite position on obedience to God, and no one has the authority to decide whether it is right or wrong, no matter the situation.

I believe that you are correct in the obedience to God. I am being obedient to God because my wife is supposed to come before our children. I am putting her safety and well being ahead of any possible further children that we may have. She must come before our present daughter or future children.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I believe that you are correct in the obedience to God. I am being obedient to God because my wife is supposed to come before our children. I am putting her safety and well being ahead of any possible further children that we may have. She must come before our present daughter or future children.

Cases like this are very difficult. Many couples have abstained due to health reasons but held to their convictions of faith.

 

[naomanos]

Cases like this are very difficult. Many couples have abstained due to health reasons but held to their convictions of faith.

Abstain from sex? Yeah, no thanks. Besides, even God does not want you to Abstain for very long as it says in scripture. Now if you absolutely cannot have sex physically, that's different, or aren't married, however, we are physically capable of having sex and are married.

These are some of the reasons on top of the fact the Catholic Church doesn't see us as married because we weren't married within its walls by one of their priests, is why I left the Catholic Church once again.

It felt like bondage to rules, a hard yoke and heavy burdens which are contrary to what Jesus said.

 

[ASUK]

Natural Family Planning is an umbrella term for certain methods used to achieve and avoid pregnancies. These methods are based on observation of the naturally occurring signs and symptoms of the fertile and infertile phases of a woman's menstrual cycle. Couples using NFP to avoid pregnancy abstain from intercourse and genital contact during the fertile phase of the woman's cycle.

This just sounds like a drug and device free way of contraception. It is placing the planning part on the man and woman and taking it away from God.

Where in scripture is this condoned?

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Abstain from sex? Yeah, no thanks. Besides, even God does not want you to Abstain for very long as it says in scripture. Now if you absolutely cannot have sex physically, that's different, or aren't married, however, we are physically capable of having sex and are married.

I didn't contradict any of your reasoning. Health reasons within a marriage is a perfectly valid reason to abstain long term.

These are some of the reasons on top of the fact the Catholic Church doesn't see us as married because we weren't married within its walls by one of their priests, is why I left the Catholic Church once again.

It felt like bondage to rules, a hard yoke and heavy burdens which are contrary to what Jesus said.

Catholicism isn't restricted to the subject of contraception -- Christians outside of Catholicism have always been opposed to contraception up until the 1930s where the Anglican Church first announced that they like contraception.

But even that aside, we don't choose what is true out of convenience -- we decide to follow what is true based on our convictions, even if they aren't convenient for us.