Major and Ravindran, I think I am trying to say what you are saying in a different way. I agree sickness is in the world as a result of sin. But for some to say they never get sick and those who do have spiritual problems... well, come on!
Psychological Issues
- Thread starter Sweet Pea
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Major and Ravindran, I think I am trying to say what you are saying in a different way. I agree sickness is in the world as a result of sin. But for some to say they never get sick and those who do have spiritual problems... well, come on!
The bolded part was a typo. I put that story in the my post about homeschool and public school.
Yes we are and I appreciate what you are saying. Again, Please be very alert and discerning when it comes to those who say that faith is all you need to be healed. Bologna!!!
No one had more faith than did Paul and he was not healed. God told him he was going to have to suffer, period. My patience runs short when I see people saying that they laid hands on people and their cancer was healed or that there tooth was replaced overnight with a gold tooth and so and so on. Pleasssse folks.
Do we not grasp the fact that every single person born of a woman in world history has died except Enoch and Elijah.
No matter what was wrong or how sick they were.....all eventually died.
If we say that we can be healed by having enough faith to believe it, then what happens when reality sets in and that person in fact dies or their precious loved one. I myself live in REALVILLE. I know what happens! They wind up setting in my office crying out to God and blaming Him because their baby died. Then it takes years for them to recover IF that is even possible. The better saying would be.........."able to go on in life with a broken heart".
WHY????? Because someone said that if they had enough faith, their baby would be healed. Evidently they did not have enough faith and their baby died. At least that is the ONLY answer that can be given to them. I would love to have the person who says that in front of me when the one they told is having a nervous breakdown from grief from what was told to them.
Forgive me for venting. I guess I been at this too long and I am getting too sensitive.
We are almost there.. I think in your previous questions you had a question on why a kid should get disease.. He does not even know what is right and wrong right.. That is what we are trying to explain.. Every human is born into sin.. So there is no question of saying "they did not deserve it".. The deliverance can come from Lord.. And it can be received through faith.. But that does not mean, we receive every time we ask.. Because Lord knows what is best.. He is in total control.. He looks through eternity and knows the best.. We look at few days or few years down the line to determine what is best!
On the other side of this debate, what about Job's friends when they were trying to figure out why he was sick? What did they say was the cause? And how did God handle them. *plot twist*
But were they correct in their assessment of Job????
MichaelH
Inactive
Recently I was discussing a similar topic with few other friends.. When we pray for a certain thing (such as healing of a disease), how are we to pray? And more importantly, how are we to react at the outcome? We certainly have to pray with faith that Lord will heal the disease.. But the problem is, we are limiting the definition of victory to our desires.. But the ultimate victory is glorification of Lord.. My friend made a very interesting comment.. We look victory at a particular time point.. For example, a disease or a lost loved one and we think that as defeat.. But Lord's victory or promise should not be looked at a particular timepoint.. But God is timeless.. He is not bound by time.. So victory should be looked from eternity perspective.. And most often, we will never be able to look at it
Let me relate this to your specific question.. You rightly mentioned.. Every disease in the world is a result of sin.. God is never ever never author of evil.. Diseases are a direct result of sin.. So in a way every disease is spiritual in nature.. If the outward manifestation of sin.. Why we catch flu? Because of virus and bacteria.. Why they catch us? Because of fallen world.. Why the world is in this state? Because of fall of man!!
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Your right, every single sickness comes right out of that curse for disobedience.
Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
(Deu 28:61)
Also no sickness was designed to give God some twisted Glory. I was designed until we are destroyed. It was designed to take away from us what Jesus paid dearly to give us.
What is victory then?
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
(1Jn 5:4)
Everything this cursed world can throw at us, can be overcome with faith. Jesus said in this world we will have tribulations. Fear not he said, I have overcome the World.
So to say God might want us sick, is to say it's the will of God for use to also do what caused that sickness to start with. That is to disobey him.
Now you said how are we to react to the outcome?
You have some revelation, but the Outcome is determined before we pray. I don't have to wait on the outcome to determine what God's will was.
Let me tell you, outcomes do not denote the will of God. Never.
Just because the best in the land could not cast the devil out of that boy, and there was no better then them, having much success casting out devils. It did not determine the will of God concerning that boy. It is pride that says we prayed and God did not heal them. who said you prayed in faith anyway? Hows it God's fault you fell short of the promise/
NO, the Discpiples had enough sense to ask WHY they could not cast the devil out. They did not say, Oh well, must not have been God's will. They had more sense than that. Jesus said it was their unbelief, but they got the answer and learned.
Now the Father said, Can you do anything?
He only asked that because the Best in the land could do nothing and it reflected on the Lord himself. If we can't help , it reflects on the Head of the Church, and the authority of the Word.
Jesus did not say, I can help because I am the Son of God or anything like that. Jesus said......... If you can believe, all things are possible to him that believe. Jesus put it right back on the parent that needed the help for his child.
Get ride of this (God is eternal, outside of time) and answers prayer in His eternal thinking. That is a bunch of religious trash.
For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.
(Psa 78:39)
Psa 27:13 I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.
God is not stupid and forgot we only have a short time here. Jesus paid for the victory now and God is not answering prayer according to some 1,000 year latter thing. You don't believe God to pay a bill, then get in heaven and he hands you a check to pay it.
How to pray:
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
(1Jn 5:14-15)
God's will is determined first, which will be the outcome. Not the Outcome which determines God's will.
some things don't need prayer, Like fevers. You know Jesus spoke to a fever, so fevers must have ears to obey.
it's when we go cross wise with the Word, that is why people are defeated, not because of some strange eternal thing God is going through. we have to do what God said do, we get out of line with that, then things go bad.
Exactly, according to God they were not. And remember the reason why they thought he was sick?
for the most part, I am in agreement .. it is not always in God's will ..
as to Paul, healed from what ???
a demon that harassed him ???
2Co 12:7
Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
I hope you are not misreading the point myself and Major were making.. Job's friends were wrong because they thought the trouble Job was going through was directly a consequence of "his sin".. That is where they went wrong.. If God were to punish us for our sins, I would have banished from the face of the earth long long ago! The point is, the world has diseases and all the problems because of sin through Adam.. It is not a direct consequence of me.. But the entire human race is fallen
No I'm not misreading your posts or majors. I actually didn't read either one of your posts yet.
My post was in regards to my previous posts. I'm just thinking about all the scripture that relates to the subject, and wanted to note my thoughts on the thread.
And yes beloved, you are 100% correct about Jobs friends.
I do think that sometimes people really are healed, and at times immediately, but not everyone is and that doesn't mean they did something wrong. My oldest two were healed of their allergies, but it wasn't overnight. It took time and faith. With my son, all were "outgrown" even ones that are typically not outgrown (peanut, treenut, shellfish are usually lifelong). My dd also outgrew all... except for two of them. BUT, some allergists started to desensitize to food allergies and it just happened to be the two she did not outgrow. In the end, though... no allergies! A long road, but here we are! I know God was 100% in control of that.
indeed .. my uncle had emphysema .. and was given a couple weeks to live .. we prayed for a healing .. the healing came .. then he died .. the doctors could not explain the last x-rays that showed his lungs were clear .. so it was God's will to call him home .. but I believe the healing was for our sake who prayed for it without doubt ..
God Bless you ..
indeed .. my uncle had emphysema .. and was given a couple weeks to live .. we prayed for a healing .. the healing came .. then he died .. the doctors could not explain the last x-rays that showed his lungs were clear .. so it was God's will to call him home .. but I believe the healing was given anyway for our sake, who prayed for it without doubt ..
God Bless you ..
And I will finish my thoughts with this post! There are also cases which are consequences of sin.. One typical example would be STD's.. Now, that is a direct consequence of sin of that person.. So we can't put the blame on Adam for everything and say it is all because of fallen world
Demonics are delivered and sick people are healed, lets not confuse the two....when Hezekiah was suffering terrible painful boils Isaiah (a man of powerful faith used by God) prayed and God did not say "Cast out that devil" He said make a plaster of figs and apply them daily (sounds like a medical approach)....Hezekiah was healed in a matter of days...
Spirits can cause sickness, and sin can cause sickness (we do that to ourselves), and the world (bacteria and viruses) also can cause sickness...
All mental illness is not demonic some is simply genetic because the whole human race is in a corruptible state (physically as well as spiritually)...many mantel illnesses are misdiagnosed and these people who would heal are destroyed by the psychotropic drugs they are put on by materialistic psychiatrists...some have actual brain dysfunctions...God can heal..He can even grow a new brain if He wished but that is not what He does so we just need to accept that...our battle is not against flesh and blood...let this fallen world pass into oblivion Thy Kingdom Come
Spirits can cause sickness, and sin can cause sickness (we do that to ourselves), and the world (bacteria and viruses) also can cause sickness...
All mental illness is not demonic some is simply genetic because the whole human race is in a corruptible state (physically as well as spiritually)...many mantel illnesses are misdiagnosed and these people who would heal are destroyed by the psychotropic drugs they are put on by materialistic psychiatrists...some have actual brain dysfunctions...God can heal..He can even grow a new brain if He wished but that is not what He does so we just need to accept that...our battle is not against flesh and blood...let this fallen world pass into oblivion Thy Kingdom Come
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Beloved, they were indeed "correct"; but they were not right.
Job suffered from fear and self-righteousness: and God dealt with that and healed him. But Job was blind to those weaknesses, and asked God what wrong he had done. His friends, on the other hand, assumed Job was in sin and accused him of it. They,
unwittingly, were also assuming the place of God and thought themselves more righteous than Job.
In the end (and that was what God was considering when He allowed satan to touch Job), God judged Job and re-established Job's righteous standing before Him.
And I will finish my thoughts with this post! There are also cases which are consequences of sin.. One typical example would be STD's.. Now, that is a direct consequence of sin of that person.. So we can't put the blame on Adam for everything and say it is all because of fallen world
Totally agree!