Glad to hear it Jim lol.
Yes, I would like you to show me what you have found in the new testament...perhaps I have missed something.
Thank you, you have a wonderful day too Jim!
Relax......Its just God doing it again.
- Thread starter Kidron
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Yes, I would like you to show me what you have found in the new testament...perhaps I have missed something.
Thank you, you have a wonderful day too Jim!
I also think that we as the church are far too quick and even eager to label people as false teachers or heretics. I honestly think that some if not many of the people we label us such are in reality, honest men and women of God that are seeking the truth but are just in error not realizing it. OR that we are the ones in error not realizing it. All of us need to be humble enough and inquire of the Holy Spirit if what is being said is true or false when it comes questionable teachings.
He thinks that the charismatic movement has born bad fruit and has eclipsed Christ with the Holy Spirit. Read Romans 8 for a good description of the role of the Holy Spirit. It is to lead us to Christ, not away from Him. I concur with this part of his message and as already stated, he backs it with IN CONTEXT scripture, cross referenced with other scripture. He doesn't cherry pick a scripture here and string it together with another out of context scripture there. All his scripture agrees. To think that because you are rich, you are favored by God and doing things right contraverts all that Christ said. Just my 2 cents.
The opening poster was attacked for saying what multiple people have been saying all over this forum. And was told to change his attitude which struck me as bullying and does not reflect God's glory. Just sayin'.....
The opening poster was attacked for saying what multiple people have been saying all over this forum. And was told to change his attitude which struck me as bullying and does not reflect God's glory. Just sayin'.....
Jim,
I cannot speak for Kidron because I do not know his heart but based on his original post I don't think that he is knocking down and condemning all big tv ministries and the like. I think his criticism is directed towards some of them, because you have to admit that there ARE some ministries out there that fit his description and are out to get gain by fleecing the flock.
Even if a ministry is not up to how we think they should be we have no right to judge them and speak ill of them. If a ministry has a fleet of Jets praise God for it was God that opened the door for them. If they have boats or trucks or the finest donkeys in the land what is that to any of us ?
Fleecing the flock ? Is this something that you have seen first hand and actually talked to those who are said to have been fleeced or is it just hear say ?
Too many people claim this preacher fleeced his flock and poor ol people have to live in poverty and yet talk to the members and partners and they have a different story.
The Body of Christ should be more concerned with living with in His word and not worrying about others.
This is the point I am making Mykuhl and nothing more.
Blessings
But Jim, are you saying that there aren't ministries out there that are fleecing the flock or are abusing the use of the funds that come to them?
Any ministry that operates as you are referring to will fall and has always fallen. Look at the ministries under fire these days and they are growing in God not carnal things.
People think if a ministry has material things thenit is like a bad thing. Why is this ?
Mykuhl God blessed these minitstries with these things because they are used for His glory.
What does the bible say about bad leadership? http://www.openbible.info/topics/bad_leadership. Google malfeasance in Christian leadership. Pedophile priests and ministers. Religious leaders who murder their spouses. They have a TV series on Sinister Ministers. These reflect no glory to God. Air conditioned dog houses, fleets of cars, designer suits, fleets of cars/jets and mansions. I asked God how will I know evil....He said, "you will know them by their acts." The damage to flocks is immeasureable. When these ministries fall, they take thousands with them. I don't care about or envy/covet how well they live...I care about the twisted message they propagate. They spend believers money to their own pride and vanity. And when their false promises are not realized, they tell their donors.....you don't have enough faith.
Secular shows and some minister who have fallen to not speak for the entire leadership or Ministriesw that are walking blessed.
Silk you are wrong. Some have yes and they are no more but you speak as if it is every where.
Your claims that they do and speak are false.
Google to find out Spititual things ? No thank you.
I go for truth, every time...because my faith is based on it. Whether I like the answers or not. I have learned, the hard way, that scripture is the truth. Do I think good people are getting the truth out? Of course I do. But I filter all words, now, to test all messages, thru scripture. And all my scriptures agree or I cast it out as wrong. You have not shown my words wrong or false. If I am wrong....unlike others I have seen, I want to know. I take no pride in being right or shame in being wrong. Because I don't know everything. Every once in awhile, I catch a microscopic thread, of a part of God's great design and I am over the moon with awe. It is a tapestry so complex and intertwined that no human can comprehend it. I don't remember a time when I didn't believe in God/Christ. My faith has literally saved me in hundreds of bad choices. I establish my truths for myself - doing the homework needed to find answers. And I find them in surprising places with the filter of the Holy Spirit. It's all grace in the end, and not "my" works. I follow Christ, not people who want something only for themselves while posturing that they are at God's side. There's a huge part of me that hopes and prays that all will be saved, that the gate is not narrow. That's not what scripture says, tho. Ultimately, we have to decide individually what the truth of scripture is.
I had to look up ‘cessationist’. I have run across it before, but it is not a term I us much.
The things we Christians find to argue about…
What gets to me is not whether these things are important and worthy of study, prayer and meditation; but that we let the enemy misdirect us to choose sides. We then label whatever the other side is, in this case ‘cessationist’ and use label that as a catch-all to avoid a civil discussion with our brothers.
As I have said, I have been a regular attender, if not an official member of several churches. I sometimes am envious of those that have been able to remain grounded in their home church for the greater portion of their lives. Some of these churches have been what could be termed cessationist. Others have embraced the charismatic gifts.
One of the cessationist pasters was teaching our congregation about blasphemy. He said that one of the definitions of blasphemy was the attribution of the works of God to the enemy, or to attribute the works of the enemy to God. He then pointed out that the Holy Spirit was working through many of the charismatic churches that our members were grumbling about. He then repeated his definition about misattribution and looked around the congregation with the sternest look I have ever seen him use from the pulpit.
These issues are important. They need clear headed discussion and understanding apart from any need to have one’s own views affirmed.
The things we Christians find to argue about…
What gets to me is not whether these things are important and worthy of study, prayer and meditation; but that we let the enemy misdirect us to choose sides. We then label whatever the other side is, in this case ‘cessationist’ and use label that as a catch-all to avoid a civil discussion with our brothers.
As I have said, I have been a regular attender, if not an official member of several churches. I sometimes am envious of those that have been able to remain grounded in their home church for the greater portion of their lives. Some of these churches have been what could be termed cessationist. Others have embraced the charismatic gifts.
One of the cessationist pasters was teaching our congregation about blasphemy. He said that one of the definitions of blasphemy was the attribution of the works of God to the enemy, or to attribute the works of the enemy to God. He then pointed out that the Holy Spirit was working through many of the charismatic churches that our members were grumbling about. He then repeated his definition about misattribution and looked around the congregation with the sternest look I have ever seen him use from the pulpit.
These issues are important. They need clear headed discussion and understanding apart from any need to have one’s own views affirmed.
Silk I ask you once agaian. Do you know first hand or another words been there and seen what you accuse these servants of GOD or is it what you read and hear?
The only thing I said you were wrong about Silk is lumping all of these Ministries together.
You bring up air conditioned dog house. WE all know who that was and what happened. There are other who I agree did not manage what God had blessed them with correctly and they are no more.
Most ministires that are getting accused of false teaching are standing strong and why is this?
Because GOD is their judge not man and He has found NO FAULT IN THEM as man does.
Why any Christians feels the need to slander another ministry is beyond words. This is not what we are taught in His word. That is all I was talking about.
Any way I pray you have a wonderful blessed week end
Jim
Actually, Brother Jim, I have had personal experience with religious leaders doing wrong. I worked 2 years as a child abuse & neglect investigator and 24+ years in the criminal justice system. I have seen the damage done to victims. I do not stick my head in the sand about it, saying aberration, nor do I paint all of God's people with the same brush - good, bad or indifferent.
I do understand that and I know God will not forget all that you have done for those who were hurt. That is wonderful Silk !!
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Upon reflection, I withdraw my use of the word "bullying" given a lot of the present day connotations surrounding it. There is no doubt that unfair and damaging, negative and untrue criticism has been levelled against Christianity as a whole. On the other hand, I feel no compulsion to defend people who use God to feather their own wants/needs/desires to live a comfortable lifestyle at the expense of the people they mislead. To hush or be silent on legitimate criticisms leads to more wrongs and no correction.
I guess we all have buttons that can be pushed; mine is misleaders and others may be unfair criticism. It is not my wish or intent to argue over it, without resolution. I respect/accept we all love God here and talking about Him.
I guess we all have buttons that can be pushed; mine is misleaders and others may be unfair criticism. It is not my wish or intent to argue over it, without resolution. I respect/accept we all love God here and talking about Him.
Like i told you.
You are not the Gospel police.
and can you name the name of a ministry that ive "put down"?
Name one.
If, you can name a specific ministry or minister that ive "put down", then go ahead and continue your judgmentalism.
K
B Jim.
Please do not speak to me about how this forum is lacking in people who only live on it to evaluate others, when in fact, im brand new here and you have immediately responded to everything ive written, both in responses, and threads, with nothing but judgements.
Everything you are saying, you are denying by your deeds and i dont like this type of dishonesty.
You dont even reply to the topic of my posts, but instead you just feel that you need to lecture me.
Well, listen, , im not here to be your evaluation.
As i have told you previously.....you are not the Gospel Polices, and you need not continue to find my posts and try to grade them according to your point of view.
Keep that in mind.
blessings,
K
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