religion

bobinfaith said:
You both have good points, one I can feel and the other I hear.

I will confess I can't understand every pastor because I'm going by my own experiences as a pastor which is incorrect. I cannot be a lone pastor relying solely on my experience. This is why it is so important for the "pastor's need to breed with pastors" so they can offer a listening ear, or when a seasoned pastor mentors a young pastor, and when pastors can gather, pray and encourage all pastors.

Years ago I followed the advice of an elder, that it's good to connect with a group of pastors (3 or 5) who have had their "hard knocks" and will all hold me accountable. It's not fair to always unload on my wife. I'll meet with one pastor for a cup of coffee, meet with another in a phone call, do a ministry project with another and so on. We're friends, brothers in Christ and each uplift one another in their noble calling, but we hold each other accountable.

As Major shared after all his years (since the stone age) he is long retired but holds the honorary pastor emeritus. I'm now being voted by our church as an emeritus and will remain retired with our home church. I can still officiate weddings, funerals, christianings, baptisms and evangelism. But my duties are not the overtime duties of a lead or senior pastor each day of the week.

What forgiven shared, I have to agree with him. A pastor is a servant, first, and what he described I can relate to. The job can get dirty. When noone is around to help, the pastor has to roll up his sleeves. When the pastor ministers to someone or a family then later is blamed. Or when the pastor has to sacrifice his pay because the offerings are low. Or when the pastor has to serve overtime because there just isn't enough help. I can relate on and on. But I also have to confess that people who have been with forgiven for years hold him in high esteem because of his office as the church and community pastor. It's the way of the flock and their shepherd.

Musicmaster makes a very good point when a pastor holds a distinctive office, the servant has to constantly watch himself and seek God's guidance. Burnout and workaholic attacks every pastor and it can affect his thinking and decision making. The pastor has to continuously stay watchful of his walk because it can lead to temptation of relief, taking shortcuts and sin. MM's outline are priorities that must remain consistent and I also agree. Whether we like it or not, the pastor is always being watched by his examples and how he leads God's church.

In this topic of religion I feel our brother's hone in more on the everyday life of blessings and challenges of the True church.
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Bob, blessings to you and your lovely wife and family.

A dear former 'pastor' friend of mine (his name is Frank) once said to me that if I ever meet another 'pastor' who dared claim that there is no measure of ego involved with being the one standing behind that pulpit, he would call such a man a liar to his face. You're right, Bob. A 'pastor' must guard ever more powerfully against the tendency to see himself as elevated above others in his so-called 'office,' above the others to whom he preaches and teaches. Too many 'pastors' allow themselves to be dumped on by church counsels and elders who have no desire to become and remain servants. Such groups aren't worth working for as a paid employee, even if given the title 'pastor.' Titles don't make being cast down into the pit of the outhouse a worthwhile position. It's one thing when the Lord gives such a man the labors that glorify the Lord and bring reward, but quite another when one is dumped on by a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings who turn a blind eye toward the one man they claim to love and cherish. They should roll up their sleeves and labor along with that man, not put him on the receiving end of every labor needed within that membership body.

So, yes, my cross-hairs on on all those lazy members who think it ok to dump all their burdens and labors on that one man, thinking that by his wallet strings being held in their hands is license to turn him into a slave, always reassuring him of the Lord's blessings for being such a dutiful slave to them. Yes, we are slaves to Christ, but being a slave to indifferent idiots who will not lift a finger to share the burdens among the membership, no. A spade is a spade. Members and elders who go out there to the outhouse and use it, knowing full well their 'pastor' is in that pit where they put him, no! Absotively not! I have no respect for those elected elders, and none for the congregants. Growing in spiritual maturity means that men in the faith are showing they are in the faith, not vagabonds who prefer to dump on the one man they pay. Remember Paul's words in 1 Timothy 5:8 above...most members consider their (c)hurch to be like a home, and when they won't see to the needs of those of their own 'house,' they are the scum who are 'christians' in name only.

Please forgive me if this seems harsh. It's just that churchianity, in how its practiced in some sectors, is just plain wrong, and actually is anti-biblical in its inherent features in how it is lived out by some. I'm the one standing out in the public right of way on the sidewalk, pointing a righteous finger of accusation against those groups, and calling upon them the woes that Christ leveled against the Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes. Daring to call themselves "christians" is an open identity for denial of the very Lord they claim to follow.

This isn't about casting out the proverbial 'baby with the bath water' syndrome. It's just that, sometimes, the bulldozer is needed to push the garbage into a heap to make it easier to to burn away into the atmosphere, so that a new construct may be erected in the place of what was so plainly inferior.

I love you all, and will continue to stand watch on the wall for doctrinal purity and biblical integrity against cultural and social corruptions that are always pressing to get into the fabric of modern thinking. I bear the double-edged sword for a reason.

MM
 
Shortly after I started going to my church, I saw the Pastor was teaching the Sunday school, then giving the sermon, then a Sunday night service, and the Wednesday evening service! I volunteered to teach the Sunday school. I tell people "when you see a need, then it is GOD who is showing it to you and HE will equip you to fill that need." More people have stepped up and our Pastor is no longer the only fire hydrant at the dog park.
 
Dave F. said:
Shortly after I started going to my church, I saw the Pastor was teaching the Sunday school, then giving the sermon, then a Sunday night service, and the Wednesday evening service! I volunteered to teach the Sunday school. I tell people "when you see a need, then it is GOD who is showing it to you and HE will equip you to fill that need." More people have stepped up and our Pastor is no longer the only fire hydrant at the dog park.
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Wonderful! You did good my friend and I know your pastor appreciated your work!
 
Musicmaster said:
Bob, blessings to you and your lovely wife and family.

A dear former 'pastor' friend of mine (his name is Frank) once said to me that if I ever meet another 'pastor' who dared claim that there is no measure of ego involved with being the one standing behind that pulpit, he would call such a man a liar to his face. You're right, Bob. A 'pastor' must guard ever more powerfully against the tendency to see himself as elevated above others in his so-called 'office,' above the others to whom he preaches and teaches. Too many 'pastors' allow themselves to be dumped on by church counsels and elders who have no desire to become and remain servants. Such groups aren't worth working for as a paid employee, even if given the title 'pastor.' Titles don't make being cast down into the pit of the outhouse a worthwhile position. It's one thing when the Lord gives such a man the labors that glorify the Lord and bring reward, but quite another when one is dumped on by a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings who turn a blind eye toward the one man they claim to love and cherish. They should roll up their sleeves and labor along with that man, not put him on the receiving end of every labor needed within that membership body.

So, yes, my cross-hairs on on all those lazy members who think it ok to dump all their burdens and labors on that one man, thinking that by his wallet strings being held in their hands is license to turn him into a slave, always reassuring him of the Lord's blessings for being such a dutiful slave to them. Yes, we are slaves to Christ, but being a slave to indifferent idiots who will not lift a finger to share the burdens among the membership, no. A spade is a spade. Members and elders who go out there to the outhouse and use it, knowing full well their 'pastor' is in that pit where they put him, no! Absotively not! I have no respect for those elected elders, and none for the congregants. Growing in spiritual maturity means that men in the faith are showing they are in the faith, not vagabonds who prefer to dump on the one man they pay. Remember Paul's words in 1 Timothy 5:8 above...most members consider their (c)hurch to be like a home, and when they won't see to the needs of those of their own 'house,' they are the scum who are 'christians' in name only.

Please forgive me if this seems harsh. It's just that churchianity, in how its practiced in some sectors, is just plain wrong, and actually is anti-biblical in its inherent features in how it is lived out by some. I'm the one standing out in the public right of way on the sidewalk, pointing a righteous finger of accusation against those groups, and calling upon them the woes that Christ leveled against the Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes. Daring to call themselves "christians" is an open identity for denial of the very Lord they claim to follow.

This isn't about casting out the proverbial 'baby with the bath water' syndrome. It's just that, sometimes, the bulldozer is needed to push the garbage into a heap to make it easier to to burn away into the atmosphere, so that a new construct may be erected in the place of what was so plainly inferior.

I love you all, and will continue to stand watch on the wall for doctrinal purity and biblical integrity against cultural and social corruptions that are always pressing to get into the fabric of modern thinking. I bear the double-edged sword for a reason.

MM
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Dr. Billy Graham once wrote that "I believe only 25% of church members are truely saved".

Talk about sobering.......I think his estimate might be a little high!
 
forgiven61 said:
what we have to realize is its just a show, ralph the father of the Walton kids was actually at one time a ordained minister. gma she was by far a saint in real life . the show is good to watch even little house on the praise was good but i noticed they felt infant baptism was essential to make it to heaven . .just a note every thing that glitters is not Gold and that includes t.v church broadcast
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It is a real life story of a man who lived,walked and breathed in a time I do not understand.
The series showed family love and unity and how that love can change ppl for the better. It is based in real life by the author's life with his family unit that included many relatives. Of course movie production and direction changed and added to his story.

Let me take that THOUGHT and say my piece.

In essence FAMILY is the unit God created of humans, a husband and wife. It is as two are stronger than one in carrying the load,two protect each other and have each's back,two are warmer than one and so forth...... it is about UNITY and LOVE among those with the same care and goal to better each other.
This is sorely lacking in the churches today. It's rather to each it's own or hey that is on YOU!

It is a sad sad time and must break the Lord's heart for those three BEAR RECORD of the other, the Father,the Son and the Spirit. Jesus came ONLY to do the will of the Father,he behaved and expressed what he'd seen of HIS father.The Holy Ghost exhibits God traits in us to change us into being more like the Father and Son.

At Jesus baptism by John the Baptist all three were in unity and love at such a great fulfillment of God's purpose. God created ALL ELSE except himself, he made the angels,the universe,the earth with its creations of animals and plants......then he created man in his OWN image,three parts that bear witness with his parts. He is the Alpha and the Omega,the beginning and end,the great "IAM" that was and ever will be!
 
The above I feel is OUR purpose, not RELIGION for they are many.

Religion serves NO purpose except to appease the yearning God put in us to WORSHIP.Rather today the creature is worshipped instead of the CREATOR!
 
D3vot3d2G0d said:
It is a real life story of a man who lived,walked and breathed in a time I do not understand.
The series showed family love and unity and how that love can change ppl for the better. It is based in real life by the author's life with his family unit that included many relatives. Of course movie production and direction changed and added to his story.

Let me take that THOUGHT and say my piece.

In essence FAMILY is the unit God created of humans, a husband and wife. It is as two are stronger than one in carrying the load,two protect each other and have each's back,two are warmer than one and so forth...... it is about UNITY and LOVE among those with the same care and goal to better each other.
This is sorely lacking in the churches today. It's rather to each it's own or hey that is on YOU!

It is a sad sad time and must break the Lord's heart for those three BEAR RECORD of the other, the Father,the Son and the Spirit. Jesus came ONLY to do the will of the Father,he behaved and expressed what he'd seen of HIS father.The Holy Ghost exhibits God traits in us to change us into being more like the Father and Son.

At Jesus baptism by John the Baptist all three were in unity and love at such a great fulfillment of God's purpose. God created ALL ELSE except himself, he made the angels,the universe,the earth with its creations of animals and plants......then he created man in his OWN image,three parts that bear witness with his parts. He is the Alpha and the Omega,the beginning and end,the great "IAM" that was and ever will be!
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When my daughter was in college, she had one of her profs tell the class that the Waltons was a good example of a dysfunctional family…I guess that’s a good example of the kettle calling the pot black.
 
D3vot3d2G0d said:
This is sorely lacking in the churches today. It's rather to each it's own or hey that is on YOU!
Click to expand...

True indeed, D3. All the institutional (c)hurches, whether affiliated denominationally or not, and being man-made, and having quite a few in their membership who are not saved, will always harbor the many rudiments and fallenness of the world. Dare one look down (in their mind's eye) at the path leading into each one of them, and they will see the path colored and paved with worldliness, wafting up the aroma of worldly pleasures and dysfunctionalities, both mental and spiritual.

The (C)hurch [CAPITAL C], however, is pure and unadulterated with the things of the world. No unbeliever is in the (C)hurch. It is populated only by the born again. Are they imperfect? Sure. We all are. However, the Head is the One who keeps His body healthy and resilient. The Head is the One who said that adulterers, idolaters, whoremongers, false prophets, violent, slayers, liars and all such, are not going to enter into His Kingdom, and so it is that the (C)hurch remains pure and glorious...hated by Satan and his servants, and especially those held in the "pit" awaiting to be released in that great day.

So, nothing new here...

MM
 
Lol Musicmaster
Did you really have to add that last little line there?

So,nothing new here......

Makes me question if you'd like me just to go away as insignificant !

I can if that's the whole forums concensus!
 
D3vot3d2G0d said:
Lol Musicmaster
Did you really have to add that last little line there?

So,nothing new here......

Makes me question if you'd like me just to go away as insignificant !

I can if that's the whole forums concensus!
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Huh? (scratching head)

I don't understand how you arrived at that 'victim' corner of the discussion. I was speaking not just to you, but generally. Perhaps I should have stated that, but failed to do so. My apologies.

Sheesh! If you think it's targeted, then just ask. The 'victim' card isn't what I was trying to get you or anyone else to thrown down.

So, generally speaking, there is (and has been for a loooong time now) all kinds of (c)hurch bashing going on for many years now, with hosts of people talking about the short-comings of the 'institutional' or 'organized' (c)hurches in the world, as if that's something to marvel at; that the world has infiltrated them, and infuses them with all manner of worldly weaknesses and maladies.

Although my comments (and final statement) may have sounded abrasive toward you personally, that was not the intent. I tend to write matter-of-factly and to-the-point rather than to beat around the bush with sickly-sweet niceties and manipulations. Perhaps I need to adopt more of that into my writing. (shrug) I've done that before, and others thought I was playing up to them rather than shooting straight. Finding that perfect balance that pleases everyone, and offends none....well, I ain't found it yet.

So, no...you can stay, and I will go.

MM
 
There is a difference between having faith and and being religious:

Faith (belief and trust in and loyalty to God, strong conviction ... Merriam-Webster online dictionary);
Religion ( a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices, ... Merriam-Webster online dictionary).

Although we can have faith without being religious, we also need fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ. Without organized religion the Church will be chaotic and wayward.

The problem for each child of God is to find a church or community of believers who will allow us to grow and mature in Christ, where we are fed solid Scriptural spiritual food, and where we find the love and acceptance we all need. This is sometimes easier said than done.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason for so many different Christian denominations is so that each of us will be able to find a spiritual home where we feel we belong.

Blessings.
 
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Musicmaster said:
True indeed, D3. All the institutional (c)hurches, whether affiliated denominationally or not, and being man-made, and having quite a few in their membership who are not saved, will always harbor the many rudiments and fallenness of the world. Dare one look down (in their mind's eye) at the path leading into each one of them, and they will see the path colored and paved with worldliness, wafting up the aroma of worldly pleasures and dysfunctionalities, both mental and spiritual.

The (C)hurch [CAPITAL C], however, is pure and unadulterated with the things of the world. No unbeliever is in the (C)hurch. It is populated only by the born again. Are they imperfect? Sure. We all are. However, the Head is the One who keeps His body healthy and resilient. The Head is the One who said that adulterers, idolaters, whoremongers, false prophets, violent, slayers, liars and all such, are not going to enter into His Kingdom, and so it is that the (C)hurch remains pure and glorious...hated by Satan and his servants, and especially those held in the "pit" awaiting to be released in that great day.
Click to expand...
Indeed!

Fortunately God is still in control - praise God! Since none of us are perfect (yet - although we are already perfect in Christ), we cannot expect the Church, which is run by men, to be perfect.

Blessings.
 
Musicmaster said:
Huh? (scratching head)

I don't understand how you arrived at that 'victim' corner of the discussion. I was speaking not just to you, but generally. Perhaps I should have stated that, but failed to do so. My apologies.

Sheesh! If you think it's targeted, then just ask. The 'victim' card isn't what I was trying to get you or anyone else to thrown down.

So, generally speaking, there is (and has been for a loooong time now) all kinds of (c)hurch bashing going on for many years now, with hosts of people talking about the short-comings of the 'institutional' or 'organized' (c)hurches in the world, as if that's something to marvel at; that the world has infiltrated them, and infuses them with all manner of worldly weaknesses and maladies.

Although my comments (and final statement) may have sounded abrasive toward you personally, that was not the intent. I tend to write matter-of-factly and to-the-point rather than to beat around the bush with sickly-sweet niceties and manipulations. Perhaps I need to adopt more of that into my writing. (shrug) I've done that before, and others thought I was playing up to them rather than shooting straight. Finding that perfect balance that pleases everyone, and offends none....well, I ain't found it yet.

So, no...you can stay, and I will go.

MM
Click to expand...



Let's not be silly I'm sorry I took you statement personally.

I think WE ALL could use a little better seasonings in our convos. It is hard to grasp the perspective of the person addressing as well as being addressed, I apologize.

We must all stay for this is also the testimony of Christ ,the word we share. I pray it sparks convictions and thoughts of where will God judge me in to all hearts.

Peace.
 
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