Romans 7, Part Two

[Major]

Hi there,

Reading through this thread, I am in the position of agreeing with all of you!! o_OI feel that you are at cross purposes, there is little difference between you.

For we do have both an old and new nature. However, Praise God! we, like Paul, know that the answer is in Christ Jesus our Lord. We are to reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God. It is a reckoning of faith.

'O wretched man that I am!
Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;
but with the flesh the law of sin.'
(Rom 7:24,25)

Good discussion.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

AND that is exactly what I have been saying. BOTH natures live within the heart of all believers. We have the impowering of the Holy Spirit which has the capacity that allows the believer to overcome that sin nature but the sin nature can not be eradicated. IF it was then how do we explain the sin that always is knocking at our door. THANKS!!!!

The push is from those who continue to say things like "Nobelman".......(and he certainly has the right to think as he wishes)
"As for myself "as quoted" the sin nature has been forever will be and thru eternity been crucified."

We pretty mush reject that opinion.

 

[Major]

Hello again, Noblemen,
Your reply prompted me to look again at the OP, and I realize that I misunderstood your reasoning in the first few paragraphs. I can see now that you are indeed saying something very different from Major.

* God does say, through Paul, in Romans 6:6, that our old man is crucified with Christ:-

'Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.'

* That cannot be denied.

I need to consider this further.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

And he also says in Romans 7:17
"Now then it is no more I that do it, BUT SIN THAT DWELLETH IN ME".

The believer is not free to do whatever he wants. He is only free to do that which is consistant with the character of God.

 

[Major]

Im saying the sin nature is 100% removed, killed at the cross. When Christ died you died and it is a mind deal now. First mixing all scripture together like it is all written to you is a huge road block. Secondly they must be rightly divided to know who God was writing to and talking to In a dispensation. Each dispensation has its own message or gospel. We are in pure Grace it has its own message can't mix old stuff with the new stuff itis rank error.

My dear brother, I hear you and understand your position. Now personally, I have never in all my years met anyone that has had his old sin nature eradicated. As for me, I did not receive that gift when I was saved. I did receive the forgiveness of God and His righteousness and the Holy Spirit who YELLS at me when I approach a choice of whether to sin or not to sin.

But just like Paul said in Romans 7......I find that in, in my fleshly nature dwells no good thing. I guess I am different than some of you guys because I find that no matter how hard I try, Just as Paul said he did, I find myself right there with Paul.

Now however I must ask you a question and hope that you will answer in with total honesty. I am not being mean spirited or confrontational in any way. It is just a question that needs to be answered by ALL who believe that the Old Nature of sin is eradicated in the believer. Since you believe that, the one question for all of you to consider and answer is this................
Does your wife or your husband, which ever the case may be think that your sinful nature is eradicated?

 

[Major]

Major all these scriptures do explain about ths sin nature and I agree but whast they dont say is that we can not rise above them. Another words not allowing this old nature to rule our lives.

What scriptures do you need that has not already been posted ?
Renew the mind - take every thought captive - learn to walk in the spirit and not the flesh.
When one has done this to the point that they are not thinking with their own human reasoning but with the word of God - How can this sin nature still rule or be a controlling factor ?

The Blood of Christ redeemed us of this sin nature - This means we can get to the place where it is not a battle any more - it takes discipline and a solid choice.

To say anything less then this is simply saying what the first adam did ( brought forth sin )
is stronger then what the second adam Christ did through His blood.
Major that can not ever be true.

When a born again believer walks around under the weight of sin then they have been fitted with a yoke of sin and condemnation once again that does not fit them nor belong to them. Christ Jesus destroyed that yoke on the cross.

Agasin the scriptures you wrote say what you say they do to a point - they DO NOT SAY we have to stay under the control of nor that we can not rise above this.
God Bless My Brother
Jim

Jim, you said.................
"Agasin the scriptures you wrote say what you say they do to a point - they DO NOT SAY we have to stay under the control of nor that we can not rise above this."

Do you not realize that is exactly what I have said and have been saying all along?????

Do you not understand that if we say our sin nature has been eradicated, then we are not able to sin. And if your sinful nature is eradicated please tell me what you believe is the source of your ongoing sin that you still commit, both in action and in thought -
I presume you do still sin? Remember, we do not have to do anything to sin. All we have to do is think it and we have committed it.

Proverbs 24:12........
"If thou sayest behold we knew it not, doth he that PONDERETH the heart consider it?"

That my friend is the doctrine of "Sinless Perfection" which is totally against the Word of God.

If you have no sinful nature anymore do you attribute every sin to the direct influence of the devil?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Jim, you said.................
"Agasin the scriptures you wrote say what you say they do to a point - they DO NOT SAY we have to stay under the control of nor that we can not rise above this."

Do you not realize that is exactly what I have said and have been saying all along?????

Do you not understand that if we say our sin nature has been eradicated, then we are not able to sin. And if your sinful nature is eradicated please tell me what you believe is the source of your ongoing sin that you still commit, both in action and in thought -
I presume you do still sin? Remember, we do not have to do anything to sin. All we have to do is think it and we have committed it.

Proverbs 24:12........
"If thou sayest behold we knew it not, doth he that PONDERETH the heart consider it?"

That my friend is the doctrine of "Sinless Perfection" which is totally against the Word of God.

If you have no sinful nature anymore do you attribute every sin to the direct influence of the devil?

Major -
I have said the sin nature does not have to control us. I said we have been set free from the power it once had. I said it is a choice we must make and be disciplined enough to see it throuogh.

I also said we can miss it at times but we have grace to fall back on right then and there. This in it's self ( 1John1:9) keeps these miss haps under our feet or another words destroys the strong hold they could have had.

If a person chooses to not change their thinking ( unto Gods word ) then this sin nature will keep them bounded up ( struggling ) HOWEVER - Christ on the cross destroyed this strong hold of the sin nature BUT we still have to do OUR part in order to rise above this sin nature.
I have not once said we dont have this sin nature - I said we dont have to be under it's control.

Any way Major, I am not trying to argue any point or say that you are wrong. I only had the intentions of showing we dont have to stay under the control of this sin nature.
Have a very Blessed and wonderful week end
God Bless My Friend and Brother
Jim

 

[Major]

Major -
I have said the sin nature does not have to control us. I said we have been set free from the power it once had. I said it is a choice we must make and be disciplined enough to see it throuogh.

I also said we can miss it at times but we have grace to fall back on right then and there. This in it's self ( 1John1:9) keeps these miss haps under our feet or another words destroys the strong hold they could have had.

If a person chooses to not change their thinking ( unto Gods word ) then this sin nature will keep them bounded up ( struggling ) HOWEVER - Christ on the cross destroyed this strong hold of the sin nature BUT we still have to do OUR part in order to rise above this sin nature.
I have not once said we dont have this sin nature - I said we dont have to be under it's control.

Any way Major, I am not trying to argue any point or say that you are wrong. I only had the intentions of showing we dont have to stay under the control of this sin nature.
Have a very Blessed and wonderful week end
God Bless My Friend and Brother
Jim

I did understand Jim and that is why I posted #24. I love the conversation!

 

[Complete]

Praise God!
That these matters can be discussed openly and with love.
May God's perfect will be done in each one of us, for His Name and Glory's sake.

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Chris

 

[Noblemen]

I want to say fairly that God's time table is at work here as well. No believer moves on in God untill the Father element of time works out, .

And no-one is left out like religion likes to say "you missed God". Complete rubish

Jim, you said.................
"Agasin the scriptures you wrote say what you say they do to a point - they DO NOT SAY we have to stay under the control of nor that we can not rise above this."

Do you not realize that is exactly what I have said and have been saying all along?????

Do you not understand that if we say our sin nature has been eradicated, then we are not able to sin. And if your sinful nature is eradicated please tell me what you believe is the source of your ongoing sin that you still commit, both in action and in thought -
I presume you do still sin? Remember, we do not have to do anything to sin. All we have to do is think it and we have committed it.

Proverbs 24:12........
"If thou sayest behold we knew it not, doth he that PONDERETH the heart consider it?"

That my friend is the doctrine of "Sinless Perfection" which is totally against the Word of God.

If you have no sinful nature anymore do you attribute every sin to the direct influence of the devil?

Sin in a believers life does not mean they have a sin nature. We all sin, I get that but that is not what is at issue. Why do we sin, is at issue in this thread or OP.
To say we still have a sin nature after the cross and as believers now is a direct slap in the face of Jesus. Thru the Centuries man has always had an affinity to clean themselves up and neglect the finish work of God at Calvary, Im always amazed at the futile attempts of humanity. Paul would go on to state "they are the enemies of the cross."

 

[aha]

.

 

[Complete]

I want to say fairly that God's time table is at work here as well. No believer moves on in God untill the Father element of time works out, .

And no-one is left out like religion likes to say "you missed God". Complete rubish



Sin in a believers life does not mean they have a sin nature. We all sin, I get that but that is not what is at issue. Why do we sin, is at issue in this thread or OP.
To say we still have a sin nature after the cross and as believers now is a direct slap in the face of Jesus. Thru the Centuries man has always had an affinity to clean themselves up and neglect the finish work of God at Calvary, Im always amazed at the futile attempts of humanity. Paul would go on to state "they are the enemies of the cross."

'For if we have been planted together
in the likeness of His death,
we shall be also
in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this,
that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with Him:
Knowing that
Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over Him.
For in that He died,
He died unto sin once:
but in that He liveth,
He liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon
ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.'
(Rom 6:5-12)

Hi there, Noblemen,
I have been considering this subject of the Old man, and your use of Romans 6:6.

While doing so, I found myself thinking of Gal. 2:20, where Paul says 'I am crucified with Christ:' 'Nevertheless', he says, 'I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.'

Paul says this, Christ's Apostle (messenger), so I believe it, wholeheartedly, Nobleman. Yet, though Paul acknowledges that He was crucified with Christ, he nevertheless lived: though now it was Christ Who lived in him. This is the reckoning of faith portrayed in glorious technicolor, isn't it, Nobleman? Yet he lived still: and I believe in the same sense, the Old man: though crucified with Christ, still lives; but now has no power over us; it is under the sentence of death and will die, for it is the body of flesh that we inhabit, it is of Adam, and it will surely die.

The 'Old man' who is 'crucified with Christ', in 'the likeness', of His death, only (see quotation above) : is also known as:-
'The Outward Man' - 2 Cor. 4:16
'The Natural Man' - 1 Cor. 2:14
'The Heart' - Matthew 15:19
'The Flesh' - John 3:6 etc.,
'The Carnal Mind' - Romans 8:7
'Sin' (the root) - Romans 5:12-8:39.

* All of these need to be considered too, I believe to know both it's nature and it's end.
* The root still remains. The change is in our standing before God.
We now reckon that though the flesh is in us, we are no longer in the flesh.

Please do not dismiss these further thoughts, as being in opposition to your own, Noblemen, but know, please, that I, like Major, and Jim, all stand beside you in contemplating these things before God. - May His Name be Praised!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Major]

I want to say fairly that God's time table is at work here as well. No believer moves on in God untill the Father element of time works out, .

And no-one is left out like religion likes to say "you missed God". Complete rubish



Sin in a believers life does not mean they have a sin nature. We all sin, I get that but that is not what is at issue. Why do we sin, is at issue in this thread or OP.
To say we still have a sin nature after the cross and as believers now is a direct slap in the face of Jesus. Thru the Centuries man has always had an affinity to clean themselves up and neglect the finish work of God at Calvary, Im always amazed at the futile attempts of humanity. Paul would go on to state "they are the enemies of the cross."

WHY do we sin you asked?????

Why does a dog bark? It is his nature.

Why does a cat meow??? It is his nature.

We sin Because we are SINNERS and that is what SINNERS do. We have a sin nature and it can not be denied or eradicated.

Personally, I would not say that anyone has slapped Jesus in the face. Lets just dig a little deeper.

THINK !!! Jesus never committed sin.....WHY??? He did NOT have a sin nature therefore there was NO SOURCE of sin.

I know that you realize that first Adam became a sinner by sinning, after him the whole human race had no choice, it was passed on as our nature. That is then called "FEDERAL HEADSHIP". What Adam did was then passed on to ALL of humanity. Jesus as the 2nd Adam had the same choice to become a sinner by sinning. This was the purpose of Satan to have him sin and disqualify him from being the messiah which came in the form of several temptations. BUT because there was NO SOURCE by which sin could come from He remained the sinless Son of God. IT WAS NOT HIS NATURE TO SIN!!!!!!

Romans 5:12:............ “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned."

Do you not understand then that in our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature. The sin nature WILL BE ERADICATED in due time when we received "glorified bodies" just like Jesus Christ. Because of our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature.

 

[Major]

'For if we have been planted together
in the likeness of His death,
we shall be also
in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this,
that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with Him:
Knowing that
Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over Him.
For in that He died,
He died unto sin once:
but in that He liveth,
He liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon
ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.'
(Rom 6:5-12)

Hi there, Noblemen,
I have been considering this subject of the Old man, and your use of Romans 6:6.

While doing so, I found myself thinking of Gal. 2:20, where Paul says 'I am crucified with Christ:' 'Nevertheless', he says, 'I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.'

Paul says this, Christ's Apostle (messenger), so I believe it, wholeheartedly, Nobleman. Yet, though Paul acknowledges that He was crucified with Christ, he nevertheless lived: though now it was Christ Who lived in him. This is the reckoning of faith portrayed in glorious technicolor, isn't it, Nobleman? Yet he lived still: and I believe in the same sense, the Old man: though crucified with Christ, still lives; but now has no power over us; it is under the sentence of death and will die, for it is the body of flesh that we inhabit, it is of Adam, and it will surely die.

The 'Old man' who is 'crucified with Christ', in 'the likeness', of His death, only (see quotation above) : is also known as:-
'The Outward Man' - 2 Cor. 4:16
'The Natural Man' - 1 Cor. 2:14
'The Heart' - Matthew 15:19
'The Flesh' - John 3:6 etc.,
'The Carnal Mind' - Romans 8:7
'Sin' (the root) - Romans 5:12-8:39.

* All of these need to be considered too, I believe to know both it's nature and it's end.
* The root still remains. The change is in our standing before God.
We now reckon that though the flesh is in us, we are no longer in the flesh.

Please do not dismiss these further thoughts, as being in opposition to your own, Noblemen, but know, please, that I, like Major, and Jim, all stand beside you in contemplating these things before God. - May His Name be Praised!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Your positive and uplifting way of communicating is admirable and I thank you for your comments!!! I see the love of Christ in you every time I read a comment you make.

God bless you sister and may you remain in the palm of God's hand!

 

[Major]

Major -
I have said the sin nature does not have to control us. I said we have been set free from the power it once had. I said it is a choice we must make and be disciplined enough to see it throuogh.

I also said we can miss it at times but we have grace to fall back on right then and there. This in it's self ( 1John1:9) keeps these miss haps under our feet or another words destroys the strong hold they could have had.

If a person chooses to not change their thinking ( unto Gods word ) then this sin nature will keep them bounded up ( struggling ) HOWEVER - Christ on the cross destroyed this strong hold of the sin nature BUT we still have to do OUR part in order to rise above this sin nature.
I have not once said we dont have this sin nature - I said we dont have to be under it's control.

Any way Major, I am not trying to argue any point or say that you are wrong. I only had the intentions of showing we dont have to stay under the control of this sin nature.
Have a very Blessed and wonderful week end
God Bless My Friend and Brother
Jim

To all who are reading these comments.

Please know that there is NO animosity or anger or personal thoughts in these communications coming from me or in that I have read coming from anyone else. I would like to thank everyone for their graciousness and levity in our conversations. It is a blessing to be able to get out God's Word to the world in such a way.

What is taking place is a TEACHING MOMENT. I have and will continue to state what I believe to be Bible doctrine.

Others will disagree and have their own input on what they believe is truth.

In the middle is YOU. Upon reading the comments from all of us, and then YOU reading YOUR Bible, the goal is to allow all of us to be drawn to the truth of God's Word by his Holy Spirit. It is then up to YOU to accept or reject.

Now then, we all have to consider this simple question on whether or not the sin nature is eradicated at salvation.
If it is, THEN WHAT WOULD YOUR SPOUCE SAY IF I ASKED HIM/HER THAT SAME QUESTION ABOUT YOU?????

When YOU were saved.....was the sin nature eradicated from your life????

Now you are welcome to ask my wife that question. I must warn you however that she will not be able to give you an answer.
She has lived with me for 47 years and she knows me......not what I say and think and wish was true, but what I actually do.

So then, when you ask her the question, she will be laughing so hard that she will fall in the floor and will not be able to speak to you and you will probably cause me to have to pay for a visit from 911 to get her back to normal.

 

[Complete]

Hi, there,

Reading what Major said about our Lord not having a 'sin-nature', I though about Romans 8:3,4:-

'For what the law could not do,
in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.'

Here we have the word, 'likeness', again. This time it is our Lord Himself identifying Himself with us, that God may identify us with Him. He didn't take sinful flesh, but only it's likeness. So it is also in - 'the likeness of His death' that we die to 'Sin' with it's calls and claims,' Sin' being the Old Man ( or nature) which is reckoned to have been crucified with Christ.

'For if we have been planted together
in the likeness of His death,
we shall be also
in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this,
that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.'
(Rom 6:5,6)

Just more, thoughts.
Thank you.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Big Moose]

To all who are reading these comments.

Please know that there is NO animosity or anger or personal thoughts in these communications coming from me or in that I have read coming from anyone else. I would like to thank everyone for their graciousness and levity in our conversations. It is a blessing to be able to get out God's Word to the world in such a way.

What is taking place is a TEACHING MOMENT. I have and will continue to state what I believe to be Bible doctrine.

Others will disagree and have their own input on what they believe is truth.

In the middle is YOU. Upon reading the comments from all of us, and then YOU reading YOUR Bible, the goal is to allow all of us to be drawn to the truth of God's Word by his Holy Spirit. It is then up to YOU to accept or reject.

Now then, we all have to consider this simple question on whether or not the sin nature is eradicated at salvation.
If it is, THEN WHAT WOULD YOUR SPOUCE SAY IF I ASKED HIM/HER THAT SAME QUESTION ABOUT YOU?????

When YOU were saved.....was the sin nature eradicated from your life????

Now you are welcome to ask my wife that question. I must warn you however that she will not be able to give you an answer.
She has lived with me for 47 years and she knows me......not what I say and think and wish was true, but what I actually do.

So then, when you ask her the question, she will be laughing so hard that she will fall in the floor and will not be able to speak to you and you will probably cause me to have to pay for a visit from 911 to get her back to normal.

Awesome! The first half of what you wrote should be included in the "Need to Read" section of CFS. That is the attitude we should have when reading comments. Too many read mean spiritedness into the responses. We should assume we are reading heartfelt dialogue from Christians, and I believe we are. If "assuming" makes something out of "u" and "me", well that's not the first time I've been one.

 

[Big Moose]

Hi, there,

Reading what Major said about our Lord not having a 'sin-nature', I though about Romans 8:3,4:-

'For what the law could not do,
in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.'

Here we have the word, 'likeness', again. This time it is our Lord Himself identifying Himself with us, that God may identify us with Him. He didn't take sinful flesh, but only it's likeness. So it is also in - 'the likeness of His death' that we die to 'Sin' with it's calls and claims,' Sin' being the Old Man ( or nature) which is reckoned to have been crucified with Christ.

'For if we have been planted together
in the likeness of His death,
we shall be also
in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this,
that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.'
(Rom 6:5,6)

Just more, thoughts.
Thank you.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

'For what the law could not do,
in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.'
What jumped out to me on this, was 'who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit'.
We 'walk' after one or the other. We aren't confined to one or the other. We have both of these within and without, and must choose, based on our maturity, which we go after. Having God's Word in us helps immensely in that choice, but temptations draw us away to the flesh.
Many times we cannot ignore the flesh, mainly because it causes so much pain, and pain is hard to ignore. It must be dealt with. We just need to remember to take the Spirit with us when dealing with it.

 

[Major]

Hi, there,

Reading what Major said about our Lord not having a 'sin-nature', I though about Romans 8:3,4:-

'For what the law could not do,
in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.'

Here we have the word, 'likeness', again. This time it is our Lord Himself identifying Himself with us, that God may identify us with Him. He didn't take sinful flesh, but only it's likeness. So it is also in - 'the likeness of His death' that we die to 'Sin' with it's calls and claims,' Sin' being the Old Man ( or nature) which is reckoned to have been crucified with Christ.

'For if we have been planted together
in the likeness of His death,
we shall be also
in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this,
that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.'
(Rom 6:5,6)

Just more, thoughts.
Thank you.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say Chris. In all honesty it appears that you are trying to sit on the fence post.
That is neither good nor bad just an observation on my part.

I would say here to Romans 6:6 that at the cross of Calvary a victory was won which provided all believers with the power not to live as he once did, serving his old master of sin, the sin nature. Now because of what Christ did for us we live to serve a new master who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

"For he that is dead is freed from sin" means that all who have died to sin are no longer a debtor to it. Death cleans the slate so to speak. The death of our Lord Jesus removed the guilt and penalty of our sin.

Does that mean the sin nature is eternally removed from us- NO!
Does that mean that we will never sin again.............................NO!

What then does it mean????? It means that living with the Lord Jesus as our Saviour precludes the possibility of carnally CONTINUING in KNOWN SIN so that grace may abound.

1 John 3:8-10............
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Now, in the greek word--- ποιεῖ (poiei)---"have no sin, means to do, to practice.

I am not a Greek expert in any way, but according to this web site......https://carm.org/can-true-christian-sin
the present active infinitive ἁμαρτανειν [hamartanein] can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,”

What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, becausee he still has the sin nature, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle. The nuances of the Greek language are not carried over to the English, but when we understand what is happening we then see there is no problem

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

WHY do we sin you asked?????

Why does a dog bark? It is his nature.

Why does a cat meow??? It is his nature.

We sin Because we are SINNERS and that is what SINNERS do. We have a sin nature and it can not be denied or eradicated.

Personally, I would not say that anyone has slapped Jesus in the face. Lets just dig a little deeper.

THINK !!! Jesus never committed sin.....WHY??? He did NOT have a sin nature therefore there was NO SOURCE of sin.

I know that you realize that first Adam became a sinner by sinning, after him the whole human race had no choice, it was passed on as our nature. That is then called "FEDERAL HEADSHIP". What Adam did was then passed on to ALL of humanity. Jesus as the 2nd Adam had the same choice to become a sinner by sinning. This was the purpose of Satan to have him sin and disqualify him from being the messiah which came in the form of several temptations. BUT because there was NO SOURCE by which sin could come from He remained the sinless Son of God. IT WAS NOT HIS NATURE TO SIN!!!!!!

Romans 5:12:............ “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned."

Do you not understand then that in our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature. The sin nature WILL BE ERADICATED in due time when we received "glorified bodies" just like Jesus Christ. Because of our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature.

Major you say we can not act apart from our nature. If by nature you mean the old sin nature then oh yes we can. We are not slaves to this nature. We are not perfect but we are being perfected.

Yes we may miss it now and agian and now that we are under grace this has no hold on us.
Some folks never grow in Christ in this area and still fall prey to the old sins of their past. However this does not say it has to be this way.

You can see your self as the glass half empty or half full just as you can see your self as a sinner saved by grace or as God does as clensed and washed in Christ blood.

 

[aha]

glass half empty or half full

Ohh,, thanks for that example Mr. Jim! I was having a hard time to summarize Romans 7 in few words…
That pretty summarize Romans 7 for me : )

A: a glass half empty
B: a glass half full
Are they different? I would say Yes…. are both valid? Yes, are both can edify? I would say Yes!

A Point of View of A or B is neutral as to what it is.... what's next is what matters....imo...

C: by God’s Grace that both A and B will be full (full: lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me)Nevertheless it is A or B to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.

That is how I see how Paul describe it as well in Philippians: where he says: "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me."




Philippians 3:12-16New King James Version (NKJV)
Pressing Toward the Goal
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule,a]'>[a] let us be of the same mind.

 

[Major]

Major you say we can not act apart from our nature. If by nature you mean the old sin nature then oh yes we can. We are not slaves to this nature. We are not perfect but we are being perfected.

Yes we may miss it now and agian and now that we are under grace this has no hold on us.
Some folks never grow in Christ in this area and still fall prey to the old sins of their past. However this does not say it has to be this way.

You can see your self as the glass half empty or half full just as you can see your self as a sinner saved by grace or as God does as clensed and washed in Christ blood.

No Jim I did not say that. YOU just said that. What I did was post what Paul said through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
What Bible verses can you post to back up your comment???

I said in comment #31........
Romans 5:12............ “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned."

Do you not understand then that in our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature. The sin nature WILL BE ERADICATED in due time when we received "glorified bodies" just like Jesus Christ. Because of our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature.

Sin is not measured by the individual being half a sinner or a full sinner. We are ALL sinners by nature and NO we can not help that.

What I have been saying is that it is a Bible fact that even a person who has once been freed from the controlling power of sin by Jesus' blood, can become a captive to sin again.

Consider the words of the Apostle Peter to Simon, who previously came to the point of believing, which merited Christian baptism in Acts 8:13............
" Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin".

Peter the Apostle also wrote of this same possibility reoccurring to those who had been truly saved. In 1 Peter 1:23 his audience was already born again and redeemed by Jesus precious blood in 1:18, but such would not, in itself, prevent them from becoming captive to sin again, as occurred to Simon in Acts 8:13, 23.

Consequently, there has to be free will and human responsibility involved in staying free. Instead of conforming to the evil desires we had when unsaved, Christians are commanded to be holy in all you do: As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy" and we see that recorded in 1 Pet. 1:14-16.