Brother if you want to love satin then that be your alotted stake in life. Scripture talking about loving our enemies is about PEOPLE not a spirit being..
Satan
- Thread starter Ghid
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Brother if you want to love satin then that be your alotted stake in life. Scripture talking about loving our enemies is about PEOPLE not a spirit being..
Brother none of this makes any sense.
''He has to hate them to have a reason to atone for them''?????? What nonsense!
Please read the link I gave you in post # 36 before you reply to me again. You are failing on Language comprehension and hermeneutics.
You also ignore my point on 1 Pet 4:18. The difference between love and hate is like the north to the south pole. We run TO those that love us and AWAY from those that hate us. Black and white. OCEANS apart. POLAR OPPOSITES. Now consider that with 1 Pet 4:18. There are righteous that are BARELY saved...there are those that JUST fall short of the threshold...YET YOU imagine God having an OCEAN of LOVE VS HATE for them......REALLY? How is that not close to madness?
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Belieiving God hates His creation should make no sense. You really believe that? Did you read my post #36?
No....He was referring to our enemy. Not personal relationships.
Now try and use common sense. If we hate those who hate us and love those who love us, how are we any better then those that hate us? You say God's hatred is different to the devils....Yes AMEN. God's hatred can never be on par with a creations hatred. God NEVER creates something from a heart of HATRED. There is NO darkness in Him = God loves all of His creation ''it is good''. Granted His creation hates Him and puts themselves in death....but you need to consider something like ....Do you HATE your child that goes gay / becomes a murderer? Meditate on that for a while.
God HATES a lying tongue as you quoted. Does that mean God hates the flesh and blood that is the tongue? It is actually quite a bad language blunder on your part.
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So you are suggesting God told us to love our enemies....and He does not love His....Really...??
It is about the enemy. It is a heart condition for the enemy. God's heart for the enemy. Loving the enemy is not accepting / approving of the enemies actions.
Brother I have posted many scriptures that plainly read that God does hate the doers of iniquity and I do not think anybody would disagree that satan is the chief doer of these iniquities. Then you posted something somebody wrote to prove the scriptures I posted to be wrong........ this does not makes sense.......
You choose not to believe the scriptures presented to you, that is your choice.
I pray you find your way. Better yet, His way!
You choose not to believe the scriptures presented to you, that is your choice.
I pray you find your way. Better yet, His way!
Well of course, we gain our understanding of Satan through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides us to what is good and truth and beauty. Through our understanding of that, we also gain understanding of what is evil and lies and filth.
I don't think putting the effort to study Satan conflicts with the Holy Spirit. When we study the Scriptures, for example, we put our effort into it, but we must always ask for the Holy Spirit's guidance in doing it.
Keeping an eye on this thread. Please be sure the rules are respected.
1. No. You posted scripture that says God hates sinners as much as He hates tongues, eyes and hands...
2. Agreed. Just don't blame him for your sin. Those that go to hell suffer for their own sins.
3. I posted an English language lesson. Figures of speech are very important in scripture. Example 1: Matt 5:39 Do not resist an evil person = a woman must allow herself to be raped? Example 2: Matt 5:28 Whoever thinks of another immorally has commited adultery = We should all divorce? Example 3: Prov 8:36 People who hate Him love death = the wicked like suicide?
4. I choose to believe them in the light of all scripture. I hate half truths, selective citing, bad language skills and bad hermeneutics.
Are you going to answer my questions to you or just keep accusing me of not reading hate as hate. I have asked you valid questions. Will you hate your child that goes wicked? Why does God not hate those who just make it into heaven?
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Brother we are through .. your assertions have been rebuked by more than just me and you continue.... At this point the only thing I have to offer you is prayer.
May you find peace in your search
The problem I think you are not seeing is the fact God hates sin, and all those that do sin, yet at the same time he loves them. You are not correct in your thinking that you can only either love or hate someone, but not both at the same time. This is not true.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
God hated our sins and those who sinned, but he still loved us at the same time!
I continue
because you insinuating God is a hypocrite. Tells us to love our enemies and He doesn't love His.The unsaved know to love their enemies. Just look at the Geneva convention. The enemy that took their wives and children to gas chambers....were relocated to concentration camps...where they received 1. meals on par with allied troops. 2. sporting facilities. 3. Regular doctor visits. 4. bank accounts. 5. Visits from family and friends.
But...we Christians...and God....do worse...? No. Matt 5:44 tells us all we need to know about the heart God wants us to have to the enemy. Albeit the devil. Just meditate on the examples I gave you and try see where the evidence points. We cannot grasp God. We want to put Him in a box. He loves me and He hates my wicked enemy...just like I do. I honestly fail to see how that is Christianity.
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That is very insightful, thank you CCW.The problem I think you are not seeing is the fact God hates sin, and all those that do sin, yet at the same time he loves them. You are not correct in your thinking that you can only either love or hate someone, but not both at the same time. This is not true.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward
God hated our sins and those who sinned, but he still
I can agree with that because when you love and hate someone your hatred is not 'full measure''. When humans hate we want to see suffering / brazen bull type torture. When God hates, it is instant destruction after much love was given. Making God's hate completely different to our hate. A purely just action.
So now the question is, how many who say they 'hate' the devil, can't wait to see him suffer?
This is why my question 'would we hate our kid that becomes wicked' clearly shows us the same predicament God is in on love vs hate. It is more love vs cannot bear them / need to remove them.
The whole discussion sounds pointless to me.. Bible does not call us to love or hate angels.. I am going to use the term angels because demons and devil are also fallen angels.. And we have good angels also..
Bible does not call us to love or hate angels.. The reason is, Bible does not ask us to have any kind of relationship with angels.. We are not called to adore or love good angels.. The same goes with demons.. Our relationship should be with the Lord and fellow humans created in His image.. That's all.. I don't think it is valid to extent the concept of this relationship to angels..
The Bible simply calls us to resist the devil.. And does not even say what we should do with angels.. Simply says we should not worship angels.. I think that is where it stops.. Us trying to extend the relationship concepts with devil or angels would be adding something to scripture.
Bible does not call us to love or hate angels.. The reason is, Bible does not ask us to have any kind of relationship with angels.. We are not called to adore or love good angels.. The same goes with demons.. Our relationship should be with the Lord and fellow humans created in His image.. That's all.. I don't think it is valid to extent the concept of this relationship to angels..
The Bible simply calls us to resist the devil.. And does not even say what we should do with angels.. Simply says we should not worship angels.. I think that is where it stops.. Us trying to extend the relationship concepts with devil or angels would be adding something to scripture.
Well, the Devil is already suffering for his actions. He is in darkness and has no light in him. There is no joy or peace to those in darkness. The Lord knows when we sin, it is no longer "I" that does it, but "sin" that is in me. Which is why we are told to....
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
The whole discussion sounds pointless to me.. Bible does not call
Bible does not call
The Bible simply calls
I don't agree. The devil is our enemy. How we speak of him is heard by all. If we say we hate him, he is a moron, or what not...I believe we are not being good Christians...at all.
The significance for me is that our belief on this seems to determine our view on hell. If God does not love His enemies like He instructs us to, we can certainly expect to see a 'full' hatred to them in hell. Hatred implies terrible suffering / very harsh punishment. Whereas if God does love His enemy, like He commands us to, we can expect to see hell as a place of banishment and self imposed torment, not torture from God. Geneva convention type home. If God has both full love and hate, we can expect to see annihilation of the wicked.
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I accept that. But being in darkness is what they love John 3:19. From God's vantage point it is death vs life. From God's vantage point they are suffering. But this is not God poking anyone with a fork. Which is what ''hatred'' for someone implies will follow.
The "poking" with a fork is not the suffering we think it is. It is more of our own "conscience" that condemns us for what we have done. God does not "torture" anyone, as he does not have to. This condemnation "torture" is built into every living being God has created. The Devil knows his time is short, and that his destiny is the lake of fire, and you can be sure this is bothering him to no end. The Book of Revelations tells us.....
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Notice where this torture is coming from. "..the smoke of their torment...." It is there own torment that is torturing them, not God's.
I can agree 100% with that! I would just expect God to add ''sporting facilites and what not''. But that is a personal belief stemming from ''loving enemy with no hatred whatsoever''.