Satan

Fish Catcher Jim

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Feb 7, 2015
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Not at all. I am thinking perfectly fine. The devil is not our enemy? Do you think God wants us to hate Him? What do we gain from calling him stupid, wanting to torture him, eye for an eye = hate... etc etc? Loving the enemy is not accepting the enemy. This is a language blunder that is simply embarrassing for a Christian to make.

Chrstians do not hate any enemy. We hate what the devil does. God loved us when we were His enemies.
Brother if you want to love satin then that be your alotted stake in life. Scripture talking about loving our enemies is about PEOPLE not a spirit being..
 

Fish Catcher Jim

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Feb 7, 2015
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Not at all. It is the heart God wants us to have to enemies, because it is God's heart to His enemies.

Does God tolerating the devil on more then one occasion in the wilderness point toward hate or love? Does God casting demons into pigs, when He loves pigs, point toward love or hate for the demons?

God HATES sin. God LOVES all of His creation. SIN seperates Him from His creation. God did not decide to create the devil....because He hates Him. There is NO darkness / evil in God 1 John 1:5.

The devil, hates his enemy, God. So when we insinuate God hates the devil.....well we are putting God in the same shoes as the devil. How are we not??? We may as well confess to all that we HATE Nero....our greatest enemy. You know, the guy that killed us off like...Paul.
Brother none of this makes any sense.
 
Sep 16, 2011
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Never said God hates satan as satan hates God.... God is holy and satan is not. God can hate and does but it does not compromise His holiness
You used a scripture about loving your enemies.... when Jesus spoke this He was referring to personal relationships. It had nothing to do with God dealing with satan.
Take your time and read what is leading up to that line and what follows ...... Pray first


Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
Who is it that hates iniquity?
Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
Who s soul hates?
Lev 20:23
, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them." (abhor=regard with disgust and hatred.)

Prov 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
Geese I highlighted the one just because it is so descriptive of satan

Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

Do you think God hates satan? This very scripture says He hate them because of their wickedness.......... who do you think the author of this wickedness is?


Revelation 20:10

10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and a]">[a]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Is this a display of love thy enemy?


Luke 22:3-4

3 And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, a]">[a]belonging to the number of the twelve. 4 And he went away and discussed with the chief priests and officers how he might betray Him to them.
Who entered Judas to destroy Jesus?

John 15:23

23 He who hates Me hates My Father also.

You deny God hates those that do iniquity but yet He says it throughout His word and you do not believe it
Then attempt to admonish me for holding to His word. God has already determined the fate of satan Revelation 20:10
Brother I wish you the best I would suggest you study God's attributes His love His holiness and His righteousness/justice. God does hate sin He also hates those that do it and short of the grace of Jesus we would get what we deserve not because God changed but because the blood of His Son atone for those sins. If God did not hate those that do those sins then Jesus had no reason atone for them.
''He has to hate them to have a reason to atone for them''?????? What nonsense!

Please read the link I gave you in post # 36 before you reply to me again. You are failing on Language comprehension and hermeneutics.

You also ignore my point on 1 Pet 4:18. The difference between love and hate is like the north to the south pole. We run TO those that love us and AWAY from those that hate us. Black and white. OCEANS apart. POLAR OPPOSITES. Now consider that with 1 Pet 4:18. There are righteous that are BARELY saved...there are those that JUST fall short of the threshold...YET YOU imagine God having an OCEAN of LOVE VS HATE for them......REALLY? How is that not close to madness?
 
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... when Jesus spoke this He was referring to personal relationships. It had nothing to do with God dealing with satan.
No....He was referring to our enemy. Not personal relationships.

Now try and use common sense. If we hate those who hate us and love those who love us, how are we any better then those that hate us? You say God's hatred is different to the devils....Yes AMEN. God's hatred can never be on par with a creations hatred. God NEVER creates something from a heart of HATRED. There is NO darkness in Him = God loves all of His creation ''it is good''. Granted His creation hates Him and puts themselves in death....but you need to consider something like ....Do you HATE your child that goes gay / becomes a murderer? Meditate on that for a while.

God HATES a lying tongue as you quoted. Does that mean God hates the flesh and blood that is the tongue? It is actually quite a bad language blunder on your part.
 
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Brother if you want to love satin then that be your alotted stake in life. Scripture talking about loving our enemies is about PEOPLE not a spirit being..
So you are suggesting God told us to love our enemies....and He does not love His....Really...??

It is about the enemy. It is a heart condition for the enemy. God's heart for the enemy. Loving the enemy is not accepting / approving of the enemies actions.
 
Nov 4, 2014
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Brother I have posted many scriptures that plainly read that God does hate the doers of iniquity and I do not think anybody would disagree that satan is the chief doer of these iniquities. Then you posted something somebody wrote to prove the scriptures I posted to be wrong........ this does not makes sense.......
You choose not to believe the scriptures presented to you, that is your choice.
I pray you find your way. Better yet, His way!
 
Jul 25, 2013
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I think your statement is certainly fair.. But the point I would raise is, where we do seek the discernment from? Holy Spirit or our own efforts to study satan? We should bank on the truth that discernment can be given only through Holy Spirit..
Well of course, we gain our understanding of Satan through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides us to what is good and truth and beauty. Through our understanding of that, we also gain understanding of what is evil and lies and filth.

I don't think putting the effort to study Satan conflicts with the Holy Spirit. When we study the Scriptures, for example, we put our effort into it, but we must always ask for the Holy Spirit's guidance in doing it.
 
Sep 16, 2011
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1. Brother I have posted many scriptures that plainly read that God does hate the doers of iniquity and 2. I do not think anybody would disagree that satan is the chief doer of these iniquities. 3. Then you posted something somebody wrote to prove the scriptures I posted to be wrong........ this does not makes sense.......
4. You choose not to believe the scriptures presented to you, that is your choice.
I pray you find your way. Better yet, His way!
1. No. You posted scripture that says God hates sinners as much as He hates tongues, eyes and hands...
2. Agreed. Just don't blame him for your sin. Those that go to hell suffer for their own sins.
3. I posted an English language lesson. Figures of speech are very important in scripture. Example 1: Matt 5:39 Do not resist an evil person = a woman must allow herself to be raped? Example 2: Matt 5:28 Whoever thinks of another immorally has commited adultery = We should all divorce? Example 3: Prov 8:36 People who hate Him love death = the wicked like suicide?
4. I choose to believe them in the light of all scripture. I hate half truths, selective citing, bad language skills and bad hermeneutics.

Are you going to answer my questions to you or just keep accusing me of not reading hate as hate. I have asked you valid questions. Will you hate your child that goes wicked? Why does God not hate those who just make it into heaven?
 
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Nov 4, 2014
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1. No. You posted scripture that says God hates sinners as much as He hates tongues, eyes and hands...
2. Agreed. Just don't blame him for your sin. Those that go to hell suffer for their own sins.
3. I posted an English language lesson. Figures of speech are very important in scripture. Example 1: Matt 5:39 Do not resist an evil person = a woman must allow herself to be raped? Example 2: Matt 5:28 Whoever thinks of another immorally has commited adultery = God wants us all to divorce? Example 3: Prov 8:36 People who hate Him love death = the wicked like suicide?
4. I choose to believe them in the light of all scripture. I hate half truths, selective citing and bad hermeneutics.

Are you going to answer my questions to you or just keep accusing me of not reading hate as... hate. I have asked you valid questions. Will you hate your child that goes wicked?
Brother we are through .. your assertions have been rebuked by more than just me and you continue.... At this point the only thing I have to offer you is prayer.
May you find peace in your search
 
May 10, 2014
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1. No. You posted scripture that says God hates sinners as much as He hates tongues, eyes and hands...
2. Agreed. Just don't blame him for your sin. Those that go to hell suffer for their own sins.
3. I posted an English language lesson. Figures of speech are very important in scripture. Example 1: Matt 5:39 Do not resist an evil person = a woman must allow herself to be raped? Example 2: Matt 5:28 Whoever thinks of another immorally has commited adultery = We should all divorce? Example 3: Prov 8:36 People who hate Him love death = the wicked like suicide?
4. I choose to believe them in the light of all scripture. I hate half truths, selective citing, bad language skills and bad hermeneutics.

Are you going to answer my questions to you or just keep accusing me of not reading hate as hate. I have asked you valid questions. Will you hate your child that goes wicked? Why does God not hate those who just make it into heaven?
The problem I think you are not seeing is the fact God hates sin, and all those that do sin, yet at the same time he loves them. You are not correct in your thinking that you can only either love or hate someone, but not both at the same time. This is not true.

Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God hated our sins and those who sinned, but he still loved us at the same time!
 
Sep 16, 2011
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Brother we are through .. your assertions have been rebuked by more than just me and you continue.... At this point the only thing I have to offer you is prayer.
May you find peace in your search
I continue because you insinuating God is a hypocrite. Tells us to love our enemies and He doesn't love His.

The unsaved know to love their enemies. Just look at the Geneva convention. The enemy that took their wives and children to gas chambers....were relocated to concentration camps...where they received 1. meals on par with allied troops. 2. sporting facilities. 3. Regular doctor visits. 4. bank accounts. 5. Visits from family and friends.

But...we Christians...and God....do worse...? No. Matt 5:44 tells us all we need to know about the heart God wants us to have to the enemy. Albeit the devil. Just meditate on the examples I gave you and try see where the evidence points. We cannot grasp God. We want to put Him in a box. He loves me and He hates my wicked enemy...just like I do. I honestly fail to see how that is Christianity.
 
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The problem I think you are not seeing is the fact God hates sin, and all those that do sin, yet at the same time he loves them. You are not correct in your thinking that you can only either love or hate someone, but not both at the same time. This is not true.

Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God hated our sins and those who sinned, but he still loved us at the same time!
That is very insightful, thank you CCW.

I can agree with that because when you love and hate someone your hatred is not 'full measure''. When humans hate we want to see suffering / brazen bull type torture. When God hates, it is instant destruction after much love was given. Making God's hate completely different to our hate. A purely just action.

So now the question is, how many who say they 'hate' the devil, can't wait to see him suffer?

This is why my question 'would we hate our kid that becomes wicked' clearly shows us the same predicament God is in on love vs hate. It is more love vs cannot bear them / need to remove them.
 
Feb 5, 2013
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The whole discussion sounds pointless to me.. Bible does not call us to love or hate angels.. I am going to use the term angels because demons and devil are also fallen angels.. And we have good angels also..

Bible does not call us to love or hate angels.. The reason is, Bible does not ask us to have any kind of relationship with angels.. We are not called to adore or love good angels.. The same goes with demons.. Our relationship should be with the Lord and fellow humans created in His image.. That's all.. I don't think it is valid to extent the concept of this relationship to angels..

The Bible simply calls us to resist the devil.. And does not even say what we should do with angels.. Simply says we should not worship angels.. I think that is where it stops.. Us trying to extend the relationship concepts with devil or angels would be adding something to scripture.
 
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May 10, 2014
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That is very insightful, thank you CCW.

I can agree with that because when you love and hate someone your hatred is not 'full measure''. When humans hate we want to see suffering / brazen bull type torture. When God hates, it is instant destruction after much love was given. Making God's hate completely different to our hate. A purely just action.

So now the question is, how many who say they 'hate' the devil, can't wait to see him suffer?

This is why my question 'would we hate our kid that becomes wicked' clearly shows us the same predicament God is in on love vs hate. It is more love vs cannot bear them / need to remove them.
Well, the Devil is already suffering for his actions. He is in darkness and has no light in him. There is no joy or peace to those in darkness. The Lord knows when we sin, it is no longer "I" that does it, but "sin" that is in me. Which is why we are told to....

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
 
Sep 16, 2011
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The whole discussion sounds pointless to me.. Bible does not call us to love or hate angels.. I am going to use the term angels because demons and devil are also fallen angels.. And we have good angels also..

Bible does not call us to love or hate angels.. The reason is, Bible does not ask us to have any kind of relationship with angels.. We are not called to adore or love good angels.. The same goes with demons.. Our relationship should be with the Lord and fellow humans created in His image.. That's all.. I don't think it is valid to extent the concept of this relationship to angels..

The Bible simply calls us to resist the devil.. And does not even say what we should do with angels.. Simply says we should not worship angels.. I think that is where it stops.. Us trying to extend the relationship concepts with devil or angels would be adding something to scripture.
I don't agree. The devil is our enemy. How we speak of him is heard by all. If we say we hate him, he is a moron, or what not...I believe we are not being good Christians...at all.

The significance for me is that our belief on this seems to determine our view on hell. If God does not love His enemies like He instructs us to, we can certainly expect to see a 'full' hatred to them in hell. Hatred implies terrible suffering / very harsh punishment. Whereas if God does love His enemy, like He commands us to, we can expect to see hell as a place of banishment and self imposed torment, not torture from God. Geneva convention type home. If God has both full love and hate, we can expect to see annihilation of the wicked.
 
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Sep 16, 2011
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Well, the Devil is already suffering for his actions. He is in darkness and has no light in him. There is no joy or peace to those in darkness. The Lord knows when we sin, it is no longer "I" that does it, but "sin" that is in me. Which is why we are told to....

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
I accept that. But being in darkness is what they love John 3:19. From God's vantage point it is death vs life. From God's vantage point they are suffering. But this is not God poking anyone with a fork. Which is what ''hatred'' for someone implies will follow.
 
May 10, 2014
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I accept that. But being in darkness is what they love John 3:19. From God's vantage point it is death vs life. From God's vantage point they are suffering. But this is not God poking anyone with a fork. Which is what ''hatred'' for someone implies will follow.
The "poking" with a fork is not the suffering we think it is. It is more of our own "conscience" that condemns us for what we have done. God does not "torture" anyone, as he does not have to. This condemnation "torture" is built into every living being God has created. The Devil knows his time is short, and that his destiny is the lake of fire, and you can be sure this is bothering him to no end. The Book of Revelations tells us.....

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Notice where this torture is coming from. "..the smoke of their torment...." It is there own torment that is torturing them, not God's.
 
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Sep 16, 2011
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The "poking" with a fork is not the suffering we think it is. It is more of our own "conscience" that condemns us for what we have done. God does not "torture" anyone, as he does not have to. This condemnation "torture" is built into every living being God has created. The Devil knows his time is short, and that his destiny is the lake of fire, and you can be sure this is bothering him to no end. The Book of Revelations tells us.....

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Notice where this torture is coming from. "..the smoke of their torment...." It is there own torment that is torturing them, not God's.
I can agree 100% with that! I would just expect God to add ''sporting facilites and what not''. But that is a personal belief stemming from ''loving enemy with no hatred whatsoever''.