Satan

Fish Catcher Jim

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So you are suggesting God told us to love our enemies....and He does not love His....Really...??

It is about the enemy. It is a heart condition for the enemy. God's heart for the enemy. Loving the enemy is not accepting / approving of the enemies actions.
KingJ you mentioned in a reply the follwing....
((Language comprehension and hermeneutics)))

Brother this is why you are not understanding things. This is learning by human understanding and reasoning. If you truly want to gain spiritual understanding then you will have to rely on God and the Holy Spirit to give you revelation of the word.

Brother satin is a fallen angel and not a Human being. Do you truly believe God would love a created being, a spirit that would destroy His people and keep His people from Him?
 
Sep 16, 2011
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Brother satin is a fallen angel and not a Human being. Do you truly believe God would love a created being, a spirit that would destroy His people and keep His people from Him?
Yes I do. Gods love endures forever and ever. The devil was once much loved by God. A good parent will always love their children. Now God wants us to have a heart that is capable of loving our enemy. So for starters, we should hear Christians speak of the devil as Jesus did. Jesus acknowledged him for who he is ...but did not speak down / with hatred to him in the wilderness. We can and must learn from that. The evidence points heavily in the direction of God still tolerating / loving the devil. Even keeping him alive for eternity. A good God keeps His enemy alive for eternity....because He still has a place in His heart for them.

Lets take it down to our level. Lets say we are dealing with Nero. Lets say Nero was your child and he is now about to feed you to lions. If you had to hate him, you would be no better then him. You would pray for him. Pray that God works hard to deliver him from hell / has mercy on him in hell...that is a prayer that our renewed hearts should desire to pray...God is behind our renewed hearts. Recall the initial argument is not just for hating the devil, but all who are wicked. If God hates the wicked, we should hate the wicked. Humungous conflict.

All I am hearing and seeing from us Christians is a carnal hatred for the enemy. That is not Christlike. Now, why is it not Christlike...
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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Yes I do. Gods love endures forever and ever. The devil was once much loved by God. A good parent will always love their children. Now God wants us to have a heart that is capable of loving our enemy. So for starters, we should hear Christians speak of the devil as Jesus did. Jesus acknowledged him for who he is ...but did not speak down / with hatred to him in the wilderness. We can and must learn from that. The evidence points heavily in the direction of God still tolerating / loving the devil. Even keeping him alive for eternity. A good God keeps His enemy alive for eternity....because He still has a place in His heart for them.

Lets take it down to our level. Lets say we are dealing with Nero. Lets say Nero was your child and he is now about to feed you to lions. If you had to hate him, you would be no better then him. You would pray for him. Pray that God works hard to deliver him from hell / has mercy on him in hell...that is a prayer that our renewed hearts should desire to pray...God is behind our renewed hearts.

All I am hearing and seeing from us Christians is a carnal hatred for the enemy. That is not Christlike. Now, why is it not Christlike...

Look satan is not a child of God. Yes he is a creation but not a creation such as human beings are. Angels were created to obey and have no right to choose. They are no where near what a human being, a child of God is. Angels were created to serve God and obey and that is ALL they were created for. Ok they do worshio God but that is a part of obeying. Now then satan tried to become God and even greater then. The devil does not have a temptor like we do and the devil never had rights or free will that would be honored by God.

He is doomed for eternity Coll.2:9-15
DONT EVER PLACE THE DEVIL IN THE SAME PLACE AS A CHILD OF GOD.
Ephesians 6:12.....KJV....For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

See the scripture above !! This goes along with loving our enemies......God is saying to love them because they are PEOPLE and the root of the problem is Ephesians 6:12
Now God hates evil and sin....It is written that the devil is the father of all lies and there is no truth in him...You can find this in John.....

Now on another note...you said you study the word with this understanding
((Language comprehension and hermeneutics))

Brother it does not matter how many new ways man finds to learn or study or how many different types of computer codes he writes that claim to find the hidden truths in the written word of God..........it will all fall to the way side and be burned up with all the other rubble...

Human reasoning and understanding will allow you to learn enough from the word of God to know you need Him and become born again and knowledge such as any text book can....However to unlock the hidden truths of Gods word you need the Spirit or Spiritual understanding...It's the only way it works.

God created His word to be read and studied in this way or by the spirit or with spiritual understanding...It has always been this way and it will always be this way. You will not ever get revelation understanding any other way. When God created His word to be read and understood this way.........well NO MAN will ever change it.


People tend to think that they know a scripture and know it all so well. Funny thing is that when you truly are renewing your mind in the word of God you will find that He has new meaning or understanding in the same scripture...It's called revelation knowledge and you wont get it any other way.

I hope you see what I am trying to say here brother..
Have a blessed and wonderful day
Jim
 
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Of course not a child, but a loved and created with love, being. Thinking of a child is the closest we can come, because we have no ability to be involved in the creation of anything else that has life.

You say they are nowhere near us, but they are created above us. You say they don't have free will, but the fact that they fell is evidence of it.

Yes Colossians is clear that he is doomed for eternity, as are all those humans who follow him. We add what Jesus said 'he has been sinning from the beginning' to grasp that God does not make mistakes. God knows when there is no more hope. The evidence points in the direction of angels being more accountable since they are greater creations and were in God's presence from birth. When they choose to hate God, it seems to be an all consuming desire. Humans need a while before their hatred = hatred. That is why we have time on earth.

Now you accuse me of not grasping the Holy Spirits revelation on the devil. I know you mean that with love and good intentions. But what I think is very ironic is that it is a carnal position to hate the enemy. It is only a spiritually renewed heart that can love the enemy. The devil, is an enemy. You and some others say we can't look at him as an enemy on par with humans. But I disagree. He shares the same fate as all the other wicked. Perhaps a little more punishment as he has the most evil deeds Rom 2:6 but same fate as Nero and all those that ''just'' miss heaven.

Please try and see that God is talking about a heart condition. Love the devil does not mean we invite him into our house for tea and scones. Matt 5:44 talks of a heart that must not be consumed with hatred for the enemy. Or else...our heart is hardly different.

Now granted, candid statements like 'devil is a bstard' made by Lance, are not hatred. But they are bordering implying that. As witnesses of Christ we need to be mindful of that as the world looks to us to be a shining example of Jesus (y) ;) :).
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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@KingJ Hello Brother,
No i would not ever judge you or get mean and I thank you for seeing this. Bless you Brother.

What i meant about the angels not having free will is this.....Not that they could not make choices,,,,,It was that they were NOT given permisswion to. They were created to obey God and worship God and do what ever he told them to do. That is all they were comissioned to do and anything beyound this was rebelling against GOD..

When the written word speaks of love your enemies....it is talking about people. Not angels or spirit beings....Dont include God, Jesus and Holy Spirit in that... ;) I mean the spirit beings part.

When a Christian is in the military they are not held accountable for killing,,,,,,,BUT they are not ever to get consumed with hatred for the enemy. They are to walk in love even in war time but when they are called to kill the enemy then its ok. Even in war when we get into hatred we walk out side of God's protection or provission and get out there on our own.
It's the same way for all of us Christians...but then again it is talking about people.

Also why do you keep bringing nero into this ? Yea I know when he lived and about persecution against the church but he is not even mentioned by name in the bible.
I will stick to what IS in the written word of God and leave all the extra research to others.

Have a blessed day
Jim
 
Sep 16, 2011
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As discussed with CCW, there is hatred and hatred. Your example of killing in war time is not hatred. If that is your definition of God 'hating' the wicked. Then I accept that. But we must all accept that that is not the dictionary definition.

I harp on Nero because he is a classic / very evil enemy of ours. Stark contrast to the guy next door that just doesn't make it to heaven.

The initial discussion was that God hates the wicked. Humans and satan. Do you think it is 'Christian / sane' to say....I love Nero and HATE satan? Being fully aware of the true definition of hate.
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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As discussed with CCW, there is hatred and hatred. Your example of killing in war time is not hatred. If that is your definition of God 'hating' the wicked. Then I accept that. But we must all accept that that is not the dictionary definition.

I harp on Nero because he is a classic / very evil enemy of ours. Stark contrast to the guy next door that just doesn't make it to heaven.

You seem stuck on the idea that we cannot group satan with humans. The initial discussion was that God hates the wicked. Humans and satan. I am happy to remove satan from the equation. All that I ask then is that if you think it is 'Christian / sane' to say....I love Nero and HATE satan. Being fully aware of the true definition of hate.
God is Love Therefore
I love God
I love the things of God (word and ways)
I love Jesus and the Holy Spirit
I love People
There is no more to love other then this........
I enjoy my boat..I sure do like my new boat
We Love God and the things of God and peole
As it is written in the word of God
Do NOT LOVE the things of this world.....That does not mean we can not have them or enjoy them....just not love them........God is love.

KingJ I wrote this in such a way so you can see what Love is to me.
I did not hate my ex wife when she cheated on me.....and stole from me....
I hated the things she did but I loved her and prayed for her....see my point....
Jim
 
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God is Love Therefore
What about ''God is love and in Him there is no darkness'' therefore God loves all and can only love all. He cannot hate like we can, hatred is not something that can exist with Him. Giving intelligent creation free will to hate Him and space to exercise it, a home to live apart is surely love.

Sorry about your ex. That is an excellent example though. If the way you have left each other and don't want contact is what you term hate on par with God's to the wicked, then I am fine with that.

Just to touch on something I forgot on your prior post. ''The angels don't have free will, they must just serve or rebel''. That is free will. It is exactly the same for us. How is it different? A donkey has no free will. He is not intelligent enough to choose to rebel against God. There is only no free will if rebellion = annihilation. That would make it, serve me or cease to exist.
 

Fish Catcher Jim

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What about ''God is love and in Him there is no darkness'' therefore God loves all and can only love all. He cannot hate like we can, hatred is not something that can exist with Him. Giving intelligent creation free will to hate Him and space to exercise it, a home to live apart is surely love.

Sorry about your ex. That is an excellent example though. If the way you have left each other and don't want contact is what you term hate on par with God's to the wicked, then I am fine with that.

Just to touch on something I forgot on your prior post. ''The angels don't have free will, they must just serve or rebel''. That is free will. It is exactly the same for us. How is it different? A donkey has no free will. He is not intelligent enough to choose to rebel against God. There is only no free will if rebellion = annihilation. That would make it, serve me or cease to exist :giggle:.
Yes it is free will for the angel to serve or rebel BUT they get NO second chance...They do not have a Savior to stand before them. They do not get to repent. They are spirit beings to serve.
This includes the devil...........

I agree there is no darkness in God and He loves us, His creation which is MAN.....
He hates sin......loves the person.......He has no desire that any should perish and spend eternity away from Him,,,,,HOWEVER He did give that choice to us His creation, human beings, Man. Man sends himself to hell. OBTW.....He detest satin...worse then puke.

Now it's funny how things worked out with the ex. I ended up working for her off and on when she was short handed and was the best employee and once she started having kids handed the business over to me. Too Funny how that turned out.
 
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1. Yes it is free will for the angel to serve or rebel BUT they get NO second chance...They do not have a Savior to stand before them. They do not get to repent. They are spirit beings to serve.
This includes the devil...........

2. I agree there is no darkness in God and He loves us, His creation which is MAN.....
He hates sin......loves the person.......He has no desire that any should perish and spend eternity away from Him,,,,,HOWEVER He did give that choice to us His creation, human beings, Man. Man sends himself to hell. OBTW.....He detest satin...worse then puke.

3. Now it's funny how things worked out with the ex. I ended up working for her off and on when she was short handed and was the best employee and once she started having kids handed the business over to me. Too Funny how that turned out.
1. I don't believe we get a second chance. We, like the angels get a chance. Its just that because we are a lessor creation, time on earth is needed for that chance to come to fruition.

2. But, if He 'hates' the devil that implies there is darkness in Him. Angels are created 'just' above us. We are 'just' beneath them. I think you are imagining them closer to God then they are to us.

3. That is really strange. I guess she did not hate you. The evidence points to her actions being more of a mistake then hearts intent.
 
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1. I don't believe we get a second chance. We, like the angels get a chance. Its just that because we are a lessor creation, time on earth is needed for that chance to come to fruition.

2. But, if He 'hates' the devil that implies there is darkness in Him. Angels are created 'just' above us. We are 'just' beneath them. I think you are imagining them closer to God then they are to us.

3. That is really strange. I guess she did not hate you. The evidence points to her actions being more of a mistake then hearts intent.
Just thought I would throw this in here....

Heb 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
Heb 2:15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.
Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Jesus did not come to save "angels", but only Abraham's seed, which is us if we believe like Abraham. Angels do not carry "seed" in them to procreate other Angels, as they are created beings. We on the other hand were born here, as we are the descendants of Adam, and Eve. Adam is the only created human being, and in which women came from.
 
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Just delete this post. I didn't call him a trickster :)
Hey brother when the enemy reminds you of your past.......... remind him of his future
I read this off a bumper sticker. I am not into bumper sticker theology but.......... I like this one!
PS: The word you used is in the bible it means illigament ... without father Hebrews 12:8 Kjv
 
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I my youth group, we talked about the Islamic State and their vicious behavior. Someone suggested that they are under the control of Satan. That led to a question about the nature of Satan.

Turns out that none of us know anything about the standard view of Satan.

So what is the accepted view? Does Satan know he is evil? Does he know he has gone to the dark side, like Darth Vader knows the he uses the dark side of the Force?

Or is Satan like the ISIS Jihadists? Does he think he is acting in a proper manner?

Or is there some third possibility?
On a conscious level Satan fully believes in his mission although I believe he suppresses conviction to accomplish it.
 

By Faith

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I think I should ask what conviction, or firmly held belief, does Satan suppress?
Satan is a created servant. God said he was created with great beauty and wisom. Through this Satan decided that he wanted to be like God and no longer some created servant.

We are like God, in his image. (The angels saying why is God so mindful of man)

Satan is just a disobedient angle that did not have enough sense to stay with God. Jesus striped him of all his power and authority so He can only control what man will let him. That means we have to listen to him for him to get any place.

Satan is the murderer, theif and destroying angel. Since we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against demonic forces. Then all trouble comes from Satan's side. Car crashes, or muslim belief's.

Satan does not suppress conviction, has no ability to have conviction as he is a created servant. Satan has vast knowledge, but no wisdom to make anything he plans last.

Satan is a epic failure who ends up killing those would have done him the most good to obtain his goals.

He even killed Jesus which put the final nails in his own coffin because he did not know what Killing him would do. He thought killing Jesus would put him under his rule and just throw Jesus in hell and be done with him.

The Muslim issue is Satan's project. Take the spirit away that blinds the minds of those that follow and the blinds come off.
 
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Satan is aware of himself. He's aware of who he is, what he was, and what he is doing. In fact, he isn't just aware of what he is doing, but he is good at it.

Satan is not the opposite of God (St. Michael the archangel is the opposite of Satan). God is the source of goodness and love. Satan is not the inventor of evil and fear and hate, but he resides within these things and uses them as his tools (along with lying).

Satan is aware of what is good and loving. He knew it first-hand. In fact, that's one of the reasons why he is so cunning in keeping souls aware from God. Groups like ISIS believe they are acting devoutly in the name of Allah, and to them, Allah is the source of all that is true. The teaching of Islam, they believe, is all that is good. They are indirectly committing acts of tremendous evil. Satan, however, only commits evil in a very direct way -- he knows precisely that what he is doing is wrong. He does not believe that he is doing God's work, he doesn't believe he is doing anything for the good of mankind -- he despises mankind. He couldn't stand the idea of serving God through service to man -- he believed he has always been above that.

ISIS's fault is falling for lies while Satan is the one actually spreading lies.
When I said this before, I misspelled you name.

Grasshopper says to
Honorable Shapiro
Thank you, very much.

I think I got confused because I know a cute boy, ... dreamy eyes, dimples, curly hair, shoulders, . . . who has a similar name.

Also

Grasshopper says to
Each-and-Everyone San
Thank you, very much.

:)
 
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Maybe I should start a new thread, but this one is aptly named :) What I'm going to write are for those that know they have something not quite right in their lives. Those that think they're perfect, or disagree, I'll ignore. I'm here to help those with faith in living rightly day in and day out, not to spiritualize everything and live under the harsh thumb of dogma, and remain in their sins. This is for Christians who are fed up with their sin and want to do something about it.

Satan... the accuser. What is his job - to thwart anything of God's. So what is it to be possessed? I dislike the word because it implies ownership. The only Owner is Jesus, 1 Cor 6:20. In the Greek δαιμονίζομαι (Daimonizomai) means to be under the power of a demon. So I prefer the second definition of "mastering someone." Demonization works too. We've all said things we later ask ourselves "where did THAT come from!?" These are telltale signs of demonic activity. We have our natural bents - likes and dislikes. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about your inability to stop cursing; can't stay away from the fridge even after having just eating dinner; hating yourself for masterbating; judging people with a visceral hatred of those that do what you do; can't keep your mouth shut about what you saw your neighbor do; self pity; rejection; depression; rage; adultery; rebellion, religious stuff like hypocrisy, superiority complex, high minded, ... and on and on and on. Ask yourself, as a Christian, are these characteristics of a follower of Jesus Christ? No.

These are actions of the devil, manipulating you, mastering over you. Yes, yes, yes, the Holy Spirit is in you, but your actions tell others something different. YOU decide who has mastery over your life, Eph 4:30. We're not talking about ownership, we're talking about perpetual sinning, 2 Peter 2:14, that we cannot seem to overcome even through prayer and fasting and surrender. Some of us have very deep rooted issues. So, how do these things come to be:
  • You could inherit them, Exo 34:7. Why do you think doctors take family history. Familiar spirits... The sins your parents, great grandparents and great-great grandparents can fall to you, if they do not deal with it before you're conceived. If you don't deal with your sins, they could be passed down to your kids!
  • They can come by something you do, via invitation: reading the daily horoscope. Divination is witchcraft, 1 Sam 15:23. If you play with fire, you're going to get burnt. See a cute Buddha statue, an evil eye, or some other object, buy it, and take it home, and you're inviting demons into your life. Symbols have power, so why bring into your life with all their superstitions too, Exo 20:4.
  • When you're weak and your spiritual or physical defenses are down, they can walk right in, Pro 25:28.
While the means they get permission to oppress vary, you have to understand that you need not remain in this affliction. Many of us are legalist, so this should make sense. If you invite a known thief into your home and he takes your stuff while you're staring at him, do you have a right to stop him? If you slit your wrists alone in the bathtub when no one is home, and death comes, do you have a right to stop dying? Of course you do! But YOU have to do something about it. Stop the thief! Throw him out of your house! Bandage up your arm! Call for help and get to the hospital! These are no brainers, but if you know you shouldn't do something and you don't want to do it, but seem powerless to stop, then you have to admit you have a problem, a demonic problem. If you don't deal with it, you're giving the thief and death permission, 1 Tim 1:20. Search for all the verses about Satan after the Gospels and you'll see they deal mostly with Christians!

This leads to these steps towards deliverance:
#1 Be humble - admit you have a problem.
#2 Be honest - confess it, call the sin by name - lust, masterbation, gluttany, anger, envy, whoremonger
#3 Confess your faith in Christ - He is our High Priest
#4 Confess the sins of your parents and grandparents as best you know - mine were into Freemasons
#5 Repent - remove all objects of the occult, objects of sin (including magazines, movies, music, etc.)
#6 Break all contact with the occult and those that are part of your sin (a best buddy that likes porn, a flirtatious "friend", church affiliation, etc.)
#7 Forgive all, even yourself​

As a Christian, you have to see these insurmountable weaknesses for what they are, demonic activity. The Holy Spirit will show you what you the truth. You cannot overcome something you don't know is a spiritual battle. These issues do NOT mean you're not saved, it means you have work to do, Phil 2:12.

Here are God's promises:

Joel 2:32 (KJV)
And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.​
Luke 10:19-20 (KJV)
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.​
1 John 3:6-10 (KJV)
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.​
Colossians 1:9-14 (KJV)
For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:​

Now it's up to you to believe the word of God (you already know the truth about your life) so claim the power of the Holy Spirit and do something about the sin in your life. Sometimes sin is an addiction and the thing you learn in rehab is to avoid the triggers that set you off. Listen to the Holy Spirit to learn what your sin triggers are and avoid them. Yea, time to go to work.
 
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I think I should ask what conviction, or firmly held belief, does Satan suppress?
It is multifaceted but can be narrowed down to one single motive. It is found in Isa 14:14 where Satan says in his heart , "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.' Matthew Henry commenting on this verse says "Thou has said in thy heart, like Lucifer, I will ascend into heaven. Here is the language of his vainglory, borrowed perhaps from that of the angels who fell, who not content with their first estate, the post assigned them, would vie with God, and become not only independent of him, but equal with him.'

You see this motivation, to be equal with God, manifesting itself in the Garden in Gen 3:5 when Satan using the medium of a serpent says "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.' Satan enticed Eve by the thought that she too could be like God, thereby imparting his own desire on Eve.

You see it again in 2 Thes 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Pretty clear I think. Satan's desire, which he imparts to the antichrist, is to be like God. If you look carefully at 2 Thes 2:4 Ghid, how does the antichrist deceiver show himself that he is God? How do humans express there reverence to God? Through worship. This is what Satan is after.

For additional evidence, read Matt 4: 1-10, and look at all the verses in Rev 13 + 14 as it pertains to worship. The battle over our minds, is expressed by our worship.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,
MoG
 
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