Segregation

Mykuhl said:
Let's consider though...was this the manner that God's people were taught in the bible though? Did they do something similar in order to facilitate learning, or are we bringing in secular/natural methods into the church because it "makes sense" to do it that way?
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I don't quite get your first question (I'm apparently missing something obvious), but...

If the bible is complete as so many profess to, then it just makes sense to go with the examples that scripture shows us as opposed to something markedly different.

I don't see any problem with there being minor differences in how things are organized based on the requirements of a particular group (internet forums, prison groups, multi-lingual, etc...), but the preponderance show a tendency to place responsibility on a very few. For the most part there is little difference in how average catholic church runs things and how the average catholic church runs things, especially in the larger denominations.

Mostly I think it began with someone doing what worked with their body/assembly and then others copied it or just kept doing it because thats what was always done.
 
Well i dont know i havent been in a catholic church to know all the difference but from outside it seems like the catholic church has different hierarchies and of course some are priests and some arent. The bible says different, we all in the priesthood of believers.

This is why I did not become a catholic priest when I became a christian. Also..Im female, and they dont have female priests. I didnt become a nun either.
 
Euphemia said:
Is there any justification for segregation among believers? I don't see it happening. Can you please elaborate?
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I don't see any biblical reason for any form of segregation within the church.

The closest I have found would be the assignment of elders and deacons and where scripture tells us that the older men/women whould admonish the younger men/women to live holy and blameless lives, but even that does not speak of seperation so much as responsibilities.
 
Eric,
I was referring to Major's comment that segregation of the body of members is done due to differing abilities to learn. I was asking if this was God's way doing things or man's? Are we doing it because it just "makes sense" to us in the natural?
I am simply questioning why we do things the way we do and if there is a better way.
 
Yea i find it a bit odd. Like no teens when we all meet together in some churches ive attended. They will only come for events.
 
Well the parents are meant to be looking after their children or aunties and uncles or godparents. I dont know if Jesus had a special group of disciples under 12. He said forbid them not. Prseumably they followed him wherever...
 
Mykuhl said:
Eric,
I was referring to Major's comment that segregation of the body of members is done due to differing abilities to learn. I was asking if this was God's way doing things or man's? Are we doing it because it just "makes sense" to us in the natural?
I am simply questioning why we do things the way we do and if there is a better way.
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Ahh..got it. Like I said, something obvious.
 
Isnt there some scripture about that, that one of the disciples said Jesus shouldnt be touching or blessing the children? Then Jesus rebuked him.
 
Mykuhl said:
Let's consider though...was this the manner that God's people were taught in the bible though? Did they do something similar in order to facilitate learning, or are we bringing in secular/natural methods into the church because it "makes sense" to do it that way?
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We did not have TV in Bible days but we seem to be utilizing it very well now to get out the Word of God.
We did not have cars in Bible days but look how much they have increased church attendance.
We did not have lights in Bible days but look at how many people attend church in the evenings.

Don't all of those things facilitate learning and none of them are secular.
 
Lanolin said:
Yea i find it a bit odd. Like no teens when we all meet together in some churches ive attended. They will only come for events.
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Mostly that is a self-imposed separation, and should never be an imposed barring of youth.

1 Timothy 4:12
Don’t let anyone think less of you because you are young. Be an example to all believers in what you say, in the way you live, in your love, your faith, and your purity.
 
Lanolin said:
Isnt there some scripture about that, that one of the disciples said Jesus shouldnt be touching or blessing the children? Then Jesus rebuked him.
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The disciples most likely were thinking only of those who may be taxing Jesus' energy, trying to be kind to Him.

Matthew 19:13-15
One day some parents brought their children to Jesus so he could lay his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples scolded the parents for bothering him.

14 But Jesus said, “Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children.” 15 And he placed his hands on their heads and blessed them before he left.
 
eric m williams said:
Agreed, but its worth considering that when the church exploded across the world, the kids were not seperated from the parents/adults. Given the overall lack of parental discipline and insistence on chemical discipline most kids in our culture recieve I can see some justification for seperation of the kids.

What I do not understand is the insistence on a seperation of the 'youth' from the adults. There is a reason that young people are leaving the church wholesale.
The youth groups are held apart as something separate. They are given special attention, special trips, and special functions.
They do not learn from the examples and lives of the older believers in the church, because they are kept apart from them.

How can we reasonably expect them to suddenly be part of the church when we have spent so much time and effort showing them that they are not?
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You must visit some strange church's. Youth do better for the most part when they have a youth pastor who can relate to them and still get them tyo understand the written word of God. Youths have lots of energy and to do things together as a group is both healthy, wise and fun.

The youth need to be brought up and prepared to face day to day life and prepared to take the Gospel of Christ out in this world. Children need to eat from the childrens table, no what I mean. So it is also wise and healthy to separate them as well.

Blessings
Jim
 
Mykuhl said:
Eric,
I was referring to Major's comment that segregation of the body of members is done due to differing abilities to learn. I was asking if this was God's way doing things or man's? Are we doing it because it just "makes sense" to us in the natural?
I am simply questioning why we do things the way we do and if there is a better way.
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Perhaps yoou might want to stop and think if perhaps this could be the instructing of God.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
You must visit some strange church's. Youth do better for the most part when they have a youth pastor who can relate to them and still get them tyo understand the written word of God. Youths have lots of energy and to do things together as a group is both healthy, wise and fun.

The youth need to be brought up and prepared to face day to day life and prepared to take the Gospel of Christ out in this world. Children need to eat from the childrens table, no what I mean. So it is also wise and healthy to separate them as well.

Blessings
Jim
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Jim, I base my opinion on the idea that we are not creating Godly youth but training young people to be men and women of God. That is the goal of both parenting and discipleship.
The problem is complicated by an absurd number of parents who don't step up to the responsibility or discipling their own children. They trust in the specially designated people who only know of a small part of the child or their lives to do it for them.
The idea of seperating young folks, because of learning capacity, leads to the question of what do you do for/with those whose learning capacity or maturity is either greater or lesser than others in their general age bracket?
 
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Maybe the parents are not saved. Have you considered that?
Or they don't have the time, or just need a break. Nowadays both parents work, you can't live on one income to keep wolf from the door.
Not everyone can homeschool. Ideally people would, but also heard some horror stories about that.
 
There are different groups for old folk, mature adults, young adults/teens, youth, children, and preschoolers. Thats the way it's always been in any kind of education.
Even english language teachers separate learners into ability - beginners, intermediate and advanced. I don't see what the issue is here. We can all come together and worship, and fellowship (breaking bread) that's no problem with that, but learning is another matter.
 
I guess thats where you have a buddy system of an elder tutoring or mentoring a younger, or teacher aides to help if theres any slower learners within the group.
 
If someone is advanced often there are special group or extracurricular activity that they can do on their own to challenge them. Or maybe that's what homework is for.
 
Lanolin said:
Maybe the parents are not saved. Have you considered that?
Or they don't have the time, or just need a break. Nowadays both parents work, you can't live on one income to keep wolf from the door.
Not everyone can homeschool. Ideally people would, but also heard some horror stories about that.
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Good points, Lanolin, but I'm referring to those who forsake their responsibilities on a regular basis. Having additional responsibilities will make things more difficult, but that child's welfare (not just the physical) and training is in their parent's hands. That is a God given responsibility.
As to the parents not being saved, that is a seperate issue. In my experience, non-christian parents who send their child to church typically do so because they think they should or to get someone else off their back about it.

I'm not sure why you brought up home schooling, but given the reason sunday school was started you pretty much reinforce my original thought about parents being involved as the ideal...
Your next few points are valid and help to reinforce my original point.
How many youth pastors do you know of have the level of help that they need?
How many of them know the youth well enough to ID those with different capabilities and gifts?

I've known a number of youth pastors over the years and many of them burn out, because they take on responsibilities that should be shared throughoput the church body. More commonly, the kids that need unnusual help or attention (due to capacity or spiritual gifting) just get left by the wayside because that one man leading or his assistant doesn't know what to do with them.

Those kids who have given themselves over to Jesus have been given gifts just like the adults have and those gifts are for the unbringing of the entire body.
 
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