B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
Love always comes first. Sometimes love is unconditional acceptance. Sometimes love is discipline but always done in love- love comes first.
Shocking Post
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
Ya know what??
You got to pull a chain gently if you want to get it moved properly
You can pull or carry it. But a chain doesn't push.
Try it some time.
It's the same way with people
You push them and they go every direction but the one you push them in.
You carry them and when you put them down they are a tangled mess that doesn't go any farther.
You jerk it or snap it hard and it will break at it's weakest link.
But pull it steadily in the direction it needs to go and you will get it there
So it is with people.
The young man at the begining of this thread was never guided but constantly pushed. Unforunately, all too often in the churches today that is what is being done.
People are either being pushed or carried and in either case they rarely get to where they need to be because of it.
"Raised in the church" has become a worse issue for many that never having known the Lord at all.
Why ???
Because all too many push their children rather than lead them or teach them in the way they should go.
Why???
Because they use them to display their self rightousness before the church.
If I offend then I offend but parents that force their children into early commitment and baptism and only concern themselves with appearances more than the welfare of the children are sacrificing their own flesh and blood to look good.
No child should be baptized before the age of 12. There is no biblical present for it. Nothing is gained until the child is old enough and mature enough to truely understand and commit themselves to the LORD. David was a teen and Jesus himself was 12 years old before becoming involved in his father's business.
Jesus said "do not hinder the children from coming to me" He didn't say," tie them to the cross before they know that it is" .Where does anyone get the idea that adolecent baptism and forced participation does anything but impress the foolish and foster rebelion on the captive child???
Infant baptism is ignorance. Infant detication is only as good as the parents conviction and determination to follow through with it's promice.
You want to raise a protical ???? Bind them to the church separate them and hold them there until you can't hold them any longer and they will get as far from you and the church as they can just as soon as they are are able.
But remember this one thing
Not all make it back!!!
Sincerely
Cliff
You got to pull a chain gently if you want to get it moved properly
You can pull or carry it. But a chain doesn't push.
Try it some time.
It's the same way with people
You push them and they go every direction but the one you push them in.
You carry them and when you put them down they are a tangled mess that doesn't go any farther.
You jerk it or snap it hard and it will break at it's weakest link.
But pull it steadily in the direction it needs to go and you will get it there
So it is with people.
The young man at the begining of this thread was never guided but constantly pushed. Unforunately, all too often in the churches today that is what is being done.
People are either being pushed or carried and in either case they rarely get to where they need to be because of it.
"Raised in the church" has become a worse issue for many that never having known the Lord at all.
Why ???
Because all too many push their children rather than lead them or teach them in the way they should go.
Why???
Because they use them to display their self rightousness before the church.
If I offend then I offend but parents that force their children into early commitment and baptism and only concern themselves with appearances more than the welfare of the children are sacrificing their own flesh and blood to look good.
No child should be baptized before the age of 12. There is no biblical present for it. Nothing is gained until the child is old enough and mature enough to truely understand and commit themselves to the LORD. David was a teen and Jesus himself was 12 years old before becoming involved in his father's business.
Jesus said "do not hinder the children from coming to me" He didn't say," tie them to the cross before they know that it is" .Where does anyone get the idea that adolecent baptism and forced participation does anything but impress the foolish and foster rebelion on the captive child???
Infant baptism is ignorance. Infant detication is only as good as the parents conviction and determination to follow through with it's promice.
You want to raise a protical ???? Bind them to the church separate them and hold them there until you can't hold them any longer and they will get as far from you and the church as they can just as soon as they are are able.
But remember this one thing
Not all make it back!!!
Sincerely
Cliff
I can understand where this young man gets his robust dislike for Christians. Many things throughout history were done in the name of Christ which obviously weren't due to His command.
And many Christians are very disrespectful to other sects of religion or groups.
When I see Christ, I see tolerance with justice. Christ accepted everyone for who they were but allowed justice when it was needed. I tend to 'try' to do the same. As Christ was the only perfect one ever, we can only try to be like Him in our walk with Him.
A lot of people see tolerance and think of compromise. I see it differently. Compromise if accepting someone elses religion, where tolerance is accepting that person and not their religion. I am tolerant of others, not their religion or faith. God loves everyone, why can't I love everyone too?
God bless,
Johnathan
And many Christians are very disrespectful to other sects of religion or groups.
When I see Christ, I see tolerance with justice. Christ accepted everyone for who they were but allowed justice when it was needed. I tend to 'try' to do the same. As Christ was the only perfect one ever, we can only try to be like Him in our walk with Him.
A lot of people see tolerance and think of compromise. I see it differently. Compromise if accepting someone elses religion, where tolerance is accepting that person and not their religion. I am tolerant of others, not their religion or faith. God loves everyone, why can't I love everyone too?
God bless,
Johnathan
Heah there, I am a Hugger from the Lord. I would like to sit in a dark corner at church but the Father wants to hug everybody.
At my last Church I noticed some people especially teenagers and little boys, didn't appreciate it. So I stopped.
At my new church their is a teenage girl who loves and welcomes my hugs and wants more.
At my old church there is a really sweet elderly man and his wife that give like 5 to 10 minutes hugs while sometimes praying in tongues. I love it! I feel Gods love and affection through this couple hugs.
So to each his\her own.
Beloved
At my last Church I noticed some people especially teenagers and little boys, didn't appreciate it. So I stopped.
At my new church their is a teenage girl who loves and welcomes my hugs and wants more.
At my old church there is a really sweet elderly man and his wife that give like 5 to 10 minutes hugs while sometimes praying in tongues. I love it! I feel Gods love and affection through this couple hugs.
So to each his\her own.
Beloved
violet
Inactive
Well, it is sad that this teenager looks at the bad of Christianity and not God in it~
I will say, there are self righteous and judgmental Christians.
Those I speak of are not only behaving this way toward unbelievers but other Christians as well.
Some have lost the focus of what being a Christian really is.
To turn from it though because of others' behavior is a cop out.
And I am ONLY referring to the teen in the original post.
There are the bad and the good in every religion.
I wonder if this same teen stopped listening to music because some is violent, or stopped watching movies become some are sexually perverted, or stopped eating because there are many people who abuse that too, becoming gluttonous and injuring their health, dying, raising medical costs.........
We can find ANY excuse we want to avoid God, Christ, Christianity.............
Also, God is ALL about love.
We can show Christ's love without accepting a person's lifestyle.
Yes, many Christians do mistreat unbelievers, I have seen it!
And as Ban pointed out, mistreat other believers too.
Christ's existence was and is for the sinners!
We all need to refocus our walk, daily.
Are we really trying to help the gay person, the druggie, the alcoholic, the rude neighbor, etc. find Christ or do we avoid them instead thinking only of our own salvation?
I will say, there are self righteous and judgmental Christians.
Those I speak of are not only behaving this way toward unbelievers but other Christians as well.
Some have lost the focus of what being a Christian really is.
To turn from it though because of others' behavior is a cop out.
And I am ONLY referring to the teen in the original post.
There are the bad and the good in every religion.
I wonder if this same teen stopped listening to music because some is violent, or stopped watching movies become some are sexually perverted, or stopped eating because there are many people who abuse that too, becoming gluttonous and injuring their health, dying, raising medical costs.........
We can find ANY excuse we want to avoid God, Christ, Christianity.............
Also, God is ALL about love.
We can show Christ's love without accepting a person's lifestyle.
Yes, many Christians do mistreat unbelievers, I have seen it!
And as Ban pointed out, mistreat other believers too.
Christ's existence was and is for the sinners!
We all need to refocus our walk, daily.
Are we really trying to help the gay person, the druggie, the alcoholic, the rude neighbor, etc. find Christ or do we avoid them instead thinking only of our own salvation?
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
Anytime one looks at the people they will be dissapointed- truley that boy needs to look at Jesus.
this makes me so sad. because i see the girl i used to be in that boy... if only he could experience the love of christ and that amzing things that he does... but nothing people can do can make him a believer thats up to him.. and him only. God is there for him and he wants him but the boy has to take the steps himself... *sigh*
The words used by this young person sound like my brother. He's 22 and has walked away from the faith that he had.
He would say he was forced to be involved in church. He has a respect for Christianity and for his family's belief, but chooses not to believe it for himself.
I can kind of understand what is being said.
I love the Lord with all my heart, soul and mind. BUT, God has done something in my life. If a young person has not given themselves to the Lord sincerely, and has lived using their parents faith as their own (does thet make any sense??), then how can we expect them to continue in their own - they haven't got one!
I have a 5 year old who comes to church with us and we teach him Christian principles. At the moment he is covered by us, but at some point he will have to make a decision for himself. It will grieve us if he walks away, but we have planted the seeds hoping and praying that he will grab hold of Jesus and not let go!
He would say he was forced to be involved in church. He has a respect for Christianity and for his family's belief, but chooses not to believe it for himself.
I can kind of understand what is being said.
I love the Lord with all my heart, soul and mind. BUT, God has done something in my life. If a young person has not given themselves to the Lord sincerely, and has lived using their parents faith as their own (does thet make any sense??), then how can we expect them to continue in their own - they haven't got one!
I have a 5 year old who comes to church with us and we teach him Christian principles. At the moment he is covered by us, but at some point he will have to make a decision for himself. It will grieve us if he walks away, but we have planted the seeds hoping and praying that he will grab hold of Jesus and not let go!
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
We all come to the place fo decision but still do not give up. God has a way of bringing those things we learned into remembrace and he may yet bring your brother into His kingdom!
I was talking to the youth pastor at my church the other day and he mentioned that he and his wife had read that somewhere along the lines of 50% of young people who attend youth ministry end up leaving and turning away after the graduate highschool and go to college. Then he went on to tell me about what he is working on doing to combat that figure in our own church.
I would be curious to know what the number is of people who have fallen away, but then later return at some point in their life. The teachings of God and the Bible do stay with us. Just because a youth has a falling away at period in their life, doesn't mean that they will forever be lost. I am not saying that it is a good thing that they go through this time in their life. It certainly can be very damaging to them and cause a lot of future heartache.
I have read that the Amish have a thing called rumspringa where at the age of 16, they allow the youth to experiment and try out the world. At the end of a period of time, the youth must decide to leave the Amish faith, or return and be Amish. They say that something like 80 percent do return. Again, I am not saying that any of this is a good thing. I just would be curious to know how many of our youth who fall away also return.
It is ideal that no one should have to go through those dark times in life that pull us away from our faith. Unfortunately, many of us do have them. They are not things we are proud of. If we know someone who is going through one of these, all we can do is love them and pray for them. We can not tie people up and force them to submit.
I would be curious to know what the number is of people who have fallen away, but then later return at some point in their life. The teachings of God and the Bible do stay with us. Just because a youth has a falling away at period in their life, doesn't mean that they will forever be lost. I am not saying that it is a good thing that they go through this time in their life. It certainly can be very damaging to them and cause a lot of future heartache.
I have read that the Amish have a thing called rumspringa where at the age of 16, they allow the youth to experiment and try out the world. At the end of a period of time, the youth must decide to leave the Amish faith, or return and be Amish. They say that something like 80 percent do return. Again, I am not saying that any of this is a good thing. I just would be curious to know how many of our youth who fall away also return.
It is ideal that no one should have to go through those dark times in life that pull us away from our faith. Unfortunately, many of us do have them. They are not things we are proud of. If we know someone who is going through one of these, all we can do is love them and pray for them. We can not tie people up and force them to submit.
The sad fact is that there are people out there in the world who are using Christianity as a permission slip to treat any and everybody any and every way that they want to.
That's not following Christ, that's following themselves. They're the NOs (Christians in Name Only) that I talked about in another thread...but they believe that they're doing the right thing by forcing their views and opinions onto the rest of the world. This is my bible, they say, it tells me how to tell you how to live.
But the Christians are out there taking the punishment for this type of behavior. I need Christ in my life now, because I've experienced a huge loss just recently. So in a restaurant, before we went to the morgue, I prayed before we ate. When I opened my eyes, there were people glaring at me in the restaurant. Glaring.
This isn't because of what I did. This is because those people, at some time in their lives, were hurt by NOs. NOs become angry in the Word of God. They scream. Their faces get red if people don't grab a picket sign and join them (rather than Christ).
This poor kid has been chased away from God's love and Christ's salvation by the very people who are declaring that they live by the Word. And if we're chasing away people who might not otherwise chose to believe...then whose works are we performing? God's? Jesus never chased anybody away from God's Word, and neither should we - as Christ's followers. Where's our punishment going to lie in our hour of judgment? It's horrible to think about!
That's why I say I'm believing in my bible as it applies to me. Not as how I can see how it applies to anybody else on the planet. If I live my life by these rules in the good book...it's going to show in my life. People are going to wonder how I got what I have. They're going to want to have a little light of their own around them all the time. And that's when I can tell them of Christ Jesus and salvation and God's love for His children.
By making the bible apply to ME, and not assuming that because I'm a Christian I'm automatically exempt from some rules that I'm reading...it's my chance to gain more followers of Christ - NOT followers for myself.
I hope a Christian (not a NO) gets in contact with this kid and explains to him the difference between a Christian and an NO.
I pray Christ has mercy on those who are out there chasing away potential followers and giving Christianity a bad name for their own name's sake.
:groupray:
That's not following Christ, that's following themselves. They're the NOs (Christians in Name Only) that I talked about in another thread...but they believe that they're doing the right thing by forcing their views and opinions onto the rest of the world. This is my bible, they say, it tells me how to tell you how to live.
But the Christians are out there taking the punishment for this type of behavior. I need Christ in my life now, because I've experienced a huge loss just recently. So in a restaurant, before we went to the morgue, I prayed before we ate. When I opened my eyes, there were people glaring at me in the restaurant. Glaring.
This isn't because of what I did. This is because those people, at some time in their lives, were hurt by NOs. NOs become angry in the Word of God. They scream. Their faces get red if people don't grab a picket sign and join them (rather than Christ).
This poor kid has been chased away from God's love and Christ's salvation by the very people who are declaring that they live by the Word. And if we're chasing away people who might not otherwise chose to believe...then whose works are we performing? God's? Jesus never chased anybody away from God's Word, and neither should we - as Christ's followers. Where's our punishment going to lie in our hour of judgment? It's horrible to think about!
That's why I say I'm believing in my bible as it applies to me. Not as how I can see how it applies to anybody else on the planet. If I live my life by these rules in the good book...it's going to show in my life. People are going to wonder how I got what I have. They're going to want to have a little light of their own around them all the time. And that's when I can tell them of Christ Jesus and salvation and God's love for His children.
By making the bible apply to ME, and not assuming that because I'm a Christian I'm automatically exempt from some rules that I'm reading...it's my chance to gain more followers of Christ - NOT followers for myself.
I hope a Christian (not a NO) gets in contact with this kid and explains to him the difference between a Christian and an NO.
I pray Christ has mercy on those who are out there chasing away potential followers and giving Christianity a bad name for their own name's sake.
:groupray:
Pamela
Inactive
Well I kinda see where he's coming from in the first part. Christians tend to disrespect homosexuality and I'm very much against disrespecting homosexuals. I think it's aweful how christians sometimes speak of them, it makes me physically sick. So I understand his point, I don't want to be confronted with it on that part either.
But also, when you're forced by your parents to do certain things, teenagers (like me, that's why I know haha) tend to do the exact opposite, so probably he doesn't like christianity because it was forced on to him
But also, when you're forced by your parents to do certain things, teenagers (like me, that's why I know haha) tend to do the exact opposite, so probably he doesn't like christianity because it was forced on to him
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
No one should be disrespected.
A resounding AMEN! I've seen this time & again...