Okay, I guess I'm old earth. I was reading J Vernon Magee's Thru the Bible commentary on Genesis 1; he seems to be old earth, too.
Should any Christian Hold to Theistic Evolution then?
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
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I just tend to see the old earth theory as a recalibration to fit the evolutionary model. That's all.
This is probably NOT FUNNY .... but I'm going to take the risk...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
We are on the cusp of genetic manipulation and cloning. Is this not a form of evolution?
Believe me, I understand completely.
But whether it is Old, or New or Recalibation.....it always comes back to those pesky dinosaurs.
They exist, we have dug them up and there is NO way in the world that they lived with Adam and Eve.
It may surprise everyone here, but most all of the first geologists who established the basic geologic column were believers in both the Bible and an ancient earth. One of those was Edward Reese and he was a professor of the Bible, history and missions at Crown College in Powell, Tennessee, and spent 20 years putting biblical events in chronological order.
Another dedicated Christian was Frank Klassen who was an architect and engineer who spent 10 years writing The Chronology of the Bible. They both agreed that the account of Genesis had important biblical events occurring between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
In fact, they both felt the first verses of the Bible chronologically would be John 1:1-2........
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.”
In The Reese Chronological Bible comes a scripture that speaks of God existing before the creation of the earth, Psalms 90:2........
“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”
Then comes the traditional first scripture of Genesis 1:1: ......
“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
This marks the creation of the universe as we know it, including the galaxies, stars and planets.
But the most fascinating part of this Bible is what follows -- not Gen. 1:2, but Isaiah 14:12-17, where Lucifer’s fall from heaven is recorded. Next comes the parallel account of Lucifer’s fall in Ez. 28:13-18.
Their thesis is that only then comes Genesis 1:2..........
“The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters”.
Again, (4), I am only posting what is being said and written by these men and others who agree that something dramatic occurred between the age of reptiles and the age of mammals. From the Biblical account we can conclude that Satan’s rebellion caused great destruction on the earth, posssibly the universe as well -- bringing an end to the age of the dinosaurs.
As 'scientists', wouldn't that spell a bias?
Just a question from my muddled brain. Gen.1:1 says In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Then in verse 2 we see the earth was without form and void and the spirit hovered over the waters, then verse 3 God says let there be light. So if the earth existed before the light how is it considered a part of day 1?
My understanding is that verse 1 is a summary statement of what is to follow.
I do not see the Universe as exactly 6000 years old, but neither would it be "billions and billions"
Interesting read here on this subject
How Do The Dinosaurs Fit In?
BY JOHN D. MORRIS, PH.D.
MONDAY, MAY 01, 1989
When first exposed to the creation model of earth history, Christians and non-Christians alike usually ask the same question: "What about the dinosaurs?" It seems that decades of evolutionary brainwashing have led many people to equate dinosaurs with evolution. Dinosaurs have long been an effective tool for teaching evolutionary dogma, but they really did exist, and therefore must somehow fit into the Biblical framework.
The Bible says that all things were created during the six-day creation week (Exodus 20:11, etc.), including dinosaurs. The reptilian dinosaurs were (by definition) land animals which were created on Day Six under the category of "beast of the earth" (Genesis 1:24, 25). There were also large marine reptiles created on Day Five (v. 21). Along with all animals and mankind, they were created to be plant eaters (vs. 29,30), for there was no death before Adam and Eve rebelled against God.
Of the many dinosaur fossils found, almost all give evidence of being plant eaters exclusively. Several of the dinosaur fossil types, however, do possess sharp teeth, sharp claws, spikes, armor plates, etc., perhaps used for a variety of offensive or defensive purposes. Of course scientists can never be certain about a creature's habits when they only have bits of dead ones to study, and most dinosaur fossils are extremely fragmentary, usually consisting of part of a single bone. And many animals alive today that have sharp teeth use them for strictly peaceful ends. But enough is known of dinosaurs to strongly suspect that some of them ate meat.
The Bible doesn't say when they gained that ability, but I feel it does give us a clue. When Adam and Eve rebelled, God pronounced the awful curse of death on all of creation. In doing so, He not only fulfilled His promise that they would begin to die (2:17), but evidently He actually changed the genetic makeup of each "kind" so that all their descendants would forever be different. He changed Eve's body structure (3:16); the plants (v. 18), and the animals, as well (v. 14). Perhaps at this time dinosaurs and other animals acquired or began to acquire body parts designed for aggression or protection. This may be over-speculation, but sin ruins everything, and before long the entire planet was corrupt (6:11,12, 7).
God had told Noah to bring pairs of each kind of land animal on board the Ark, including, evidently, the dinosaurs (7:15). Recognizing that as reptiles, dinosaurs would have continued to grow as long as they lived, implying that the oldest would be the largest, there was plenty of room on board the Ark for the younger ones. Thus the dinosaurs on board the Ark probably would have been young adults, no bigger than a cow perhaps. But the world after the Flood was much different than before, with much less vegetation and a colder, harsher climate, and evidently the dinosaurs gradually died out. Perhaps they were even hunted to extinction, as would be indicated by the many legends of dragons, the descriptions of which closely resemble dinosaurs.
At any rate, Biblical history has an explanation for dinosaurs, their creation, life-style, and extinction. Christian parents are encouraged to use them to teach Biblical truth.
* Dr. John Morris is President of the Institute for Creation Research.
It was stated.........
"At any rate, Biblical history has an explanation for dinosaurs, their creation, life-style, and extinction."
There is NO Bible Scriptures that suggest their existence. The Old Earth believers will argue that the Bible does not help us at all with the question of when the dinosaurs lived, for obvious reasons, but scientific data tells us that they lived 240-65 million years ago.
There does not seem to be a middle ground on this subject.
It is either 6000 years old or Billions of years old. There is no evidence I know of that gives anything other than those two options.
Even "reconstruction" is rooted in a very old earth.
Agreed. That was the common way of writing in that day.
Not only that........but even if verse #1 is a summary, where did the water come from since the creative work it self did not begin till verse #4?
Verse 2 still suggests that the Earth was in existence prior to God saying "Let there be light." This was my question. Also, when was the Earth created if not in verse 1?
NO.
Evolution is the change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations whether it be plant, or animal. It occurs when evolutionary processes such as natural selection and genetic drift act on genetic variation, resulting in certain characteristics becoming more or less common within a population over successive generations "naturally".
Genetic manipulation and cloning is a man driven process that alters the natural process into something else.
This assumes man is not part of nature.
Now, I hope that you understand that I am not advocating anything here. I am simply posting the arguments used to explain why the earth is Very Old by those who believe that.
Now to your question, it is understood from the Bible itself that there is no concept of “planet earth” in Gen 1.
It is entirely foreign to the entire Bible.
“earth” (Hebrew--אֶרֶץ erets) is simply dry, arable land seen in Gen.1:10 that makes agriculture possible.
Therefore, a simple common sense reading of Gen 1:1–2:3 suggests that a formless, worthless, dark, lifeless, watery planet already existed at ( before) the beginning of creation week.
This suggests that God had previously created it – a suggestion supported by Job 38:4-7.......
“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? … Who laid its cornerstone while the morning stars and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”
Thus, other life forms existed elsewhere in the universe (apart from God) who witnessed the creation of the Earth during the planet’s very foundation meaning of course Angels.
Yes...agreed.
Adam was created from the dust of the ground by the Lord Jesus. Dust comes from "dirt" so the 1st man was part of nature itself.
He was part of the design of God.