Because I always get the feeling you're trying to set me up for something.Instead of just saying I have misunderstood your position, why don't you clarify things so I understand?
No matter how clear I can make it, I've found that with some Christians we're never talking about the same thing.How can we hope to have an intelligible conversation if we aren't talkin g about the same things?
Currently, I'm sitting at a desk.Help me out here a little....what is your position?
And what about schizophrenia, psychosis, and the other mental illnesses/diseases?, are the ailing from such illnesses/diseases, sinners/abominable too?!NOPE.............Homosexuality is not just a sin, it is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD THY GOD.
Obviously you don't want to ask your question again and give me some idea what you're talking about. Read the OP again, then read your questions.Obviously you don't want me to know where you really stand. You can keep insisting my motives are suspect, but, by doing so and then refusing to be clear in your own positions, makes your motives appear a bit suspicious.
"If I understand you correctly, you are saying the Bible is not condemning homosexuality, but paganism as it deals with sexual activity of both sexes? Or prostitution and other sexual relations when performed to incite false gods? Is that correct?"
You said I have misunderstood. Would you rather continue telling others they don't understand an ything, or would you like to use this opportunity to help us understand. (shrug) why don't we have a shrug icon?
What do any of these questions have to do with the word sodomite? Yeah, I think you're up to something.If I understand you correctly, you are saying the Bible is not condemning homosexuality, but paganism as it deals with sexual activity of both sexes? Or prostitution and other sexual relations when performed to incite false gods? Is that correct?
Also, is it the word "abomination" that distinguishes pagan practices from other sins?
And is this entire chapter, Lev 18 & 20, about worsing pagan gods, or does it go back and forth between general sins that are always wrong and sin of paganism?
That's not likely to happen. I've been around a while. It's been years since I've heard anything new and original from Christians on this subject.Ingbert,
I would like to have a conversation with you that I don't believe anyone has ever had before.
I don't do private conversations.There is a "start a conversation" option where we can invite specific people or lock everyone out......if you think you are interested. Not sure exactly how to state the subject, yet....I'll give it some thought and then you can decide.
I'm not sure about the usage of the word in English bibles, but I know that the word has a completely different meaning here (namely zoophilia) - and that the meaning changed a lot during history.“Sodomite” is not a scriptural term. At best, it’s a King James term. As far as I know, it’s only used in the King James Version.
This is what your first post said:What do any of these questions have to do with the word sodomite? Yeah, I think you're up to something.
You further stated that the word sodomite refers to pagan sexual practices.One of my old MySpace friends insisted on calling gays “sodomites” because, “That’s what the Bible calls them.” ......He’s not alone. I’ve heard a lot of preachers call gays sodomites.
It’s also incorrect to use sodomite as a general term for homosexuals.....
But you claim that is incorrect, and can't clarify what you really mean because you will fall into a trap........the Bible is not condemning homosexuality, but paganism as it deals with sexual activity of both sexes? Or prostitution and other sexual relations when performed to incite false gods? Is that correct?
Yeah, this is strictly an English Bible issue, and only one translation at that. You're right, meanings change. There are a couple words in KJV that are considered mistranslations, but if you at the history of the English, it had the correct meaning in 16th century English, but in modern usage has come to mean something else.I'm not sure about the usage of the word in English bibles, but I know that the word has a completely different meaning here (namely zoophilia) - and that the meaning changed a lot during history.
I also know that in Islamic context, the question if the sin of sodom was actually homosexuality is heavily disputed amongst different scholars.
Considering what you said in another thread (http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/attraction-vs-lust-whats-the-difference.30560/)Whenever the subject of homosexuality comes up there seems to be a general blindness to the 800 lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the room.
It makes no difference if one believes that gender preference is innate or not, or whether people do or do not have a choice, the one blatantly obvious thing that seems to be avoided is that homosexuality is all about LUST not love. That in itself makes it a sin. A man may love all the men he could want, the more the better, but don't attempt to have a parody of sexual relations with them, that has nothing to do with love.
Do you believe gays are incapable of that empathy and desire for the well being of the other?With attraction there is empathy with the one to whom you are attracted, an actual desire for the well being of the person.
Lust is the want to gratify an itch. Once the itch is scratched, the itcher can drop dead for all you care. Why do women so often complain "he never calls afterwards"? Because they were the objects of lust, not attraction.
What about those ILLNESSES? That is what they are my friend....ILLNESSES.And what about schizophrenia, psychosis, and the other mental illnesses/diseases?, are the ailing from such illnesses/diseases, sinners/abominable too?!
What the mentally sick people are guilty for where they are affected/victims of the "darkness"?!, first(-ly) they has been overlooked/cursed/defiled by/from the big/great spirituality/religion, and next they are being hated/discriminated without a droplet/shred of compensation?!
Where is the therapy/treatment/healing/cure for them?!, how is possible the Lord God to be criminal?!
Matthew 4:23-25 "And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.",
Matthew 8:16 "When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:",
Luke 7:20-23 "When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.",
Matthew 10:8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."
You can not have it both ways my friend. IF as you contend that homosexuals are mentally ill, then you can not turn around and argue that they have empathy and care for the well being of others. Remember.......Considering what you said in another thread (http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/attraction-vs-lust-whats-the-difference.30560/)
Do you believe gays are incapable of that empathy and desire for the well being of the other?
That is your OPINION because of your pre-disposed bias.That's right. It ranks right up there with eating shrimp.
I am agreeable to most anything that is civil and friendly my dear.Major,
The point that is trying to be made in this thread is that it is not homosexuality that is the abomination, but the worship of idols. If I am understanding correctly the idea is that homosexuality is not the sin, but rathyer sexual rituals performed to appease false gods.
I am asking for clarification in post #11. I want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing AND what that thing is we're talking about. I am wondering specifically if the word "abomination" is the qualifying factor here. You know, is that the word that distinguishes between regular sin and the sin of paganism or worshipping idols?
If we hold off for a bit until we see what others actually think, maybe our conversations will go along a little more smoothly and be a bit more productive. What do you think?
I don't recall ever saying anything about homosexuals being mentally ill.You can not have it both ways my friend. IF as you contend that homosexuals are mentally ill, then you can not turn around and argue that they have empathy and care for the well being of others. Remember.......
you are saying that they are mentally ill so then their ability to have empathy or care of others WILL BE IMPARIED. If you do not think that is true then I encourage you to spend some time with some really mentaly ill people.
Nope, that's Scripture. Read Leviticus 11. Abomination, same word.That is your OPINION because of your pre-disposed bias.
Have you considered the Word of God???????
God told Adam and Eve to populate the earth. He institued marriage, one man to one woman for all their life which constitutes a FAMILY. Homosexuality disobays that command therefore it is sin because it destroys the family unit.
Now you are kidding...right??Nope, that's Scripture. Read Leviticus 11. Abomination, same word.
God told Adam and Eve to populate the earth. Where does he tell the rest of us to do the same? Where is marriage commanded to be one man and one woman? The more typical Biblical marriage in the OT seems to be multiple wives and concubines.