Speaking In Tongues

May 19, 2012
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What I meant about hearing differences about older speaking in tongues, these were from clips I looked up on the internet many years ago - late 90's? I have never personally witnessed speaking in tongues. Michael says there is a palpable raise of energy (spiritual) in the room. I have been in rooms where everyone could feel this raise in energy (altho no speaking in tongues) - but some were not actually conscious of what was taking place - just that you could talk about anything. I was wondering if Major had detected any differences in those he heard before and the ABC report.
 
May 19, 2012
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Michael - it downloaded (yippee!) and it is a lovely version (slightly different words than I am familiar with at the beginning). I am an ole Oz fan and memorized the album when I was 6?. I can still remember all the words (grin). Over the rainbow is one of my favorites. (course I can't sing worth a dang).
singing: when a man's an empty kettle, he should be on his metal, and yet I'm torn apart, Just because I'm presuming that I could be kinda human - If I only had a heart :)
 

MichaelH

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What I meant about hearing differences about older speaking in tongues, these were from clips I looked up on the internet many years ago - late 90's? I have never personally witnessed speaking in tongues. Michael says there is a palpable raise of energy (spiritual) in the room. I have been in rooms where everyone could feel this raise in energy (altho no speaking in tongues) - but some were not actually conscious of what was taking place - just that you could talk about anything. I was wondering if Major had detected any differences in those he heard before and the ABC report.
At my church, coming off the parking lot team and into the sanctuary where Kenneth Copeland was preaching I felt the hair on my arms raise up, the power of God could be felt through the building. Lots of unbelievers felt it also just driving by and was curious to what that was and came in. Kenneth visits us once a year for Branson Victory Campaign.

No tongues were being spoken of course.

I was not allowed to stay inside, I had to continue working parking lot. There were not seats anyway.

Some are more receptive to the Holy Spirit. Nicole is one of them, I have seen her fall out in the store before while praying for someone in there.

For tongues to be on ABC a left wing God hating station has to be a God thing. If you can tolerate some goofy stuff, you could go visit a pentecostal church in your area. I don't care for most pentecostal churches. I would rather hear the Word, if after service folks want to pray in tongues then fine.
 
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If you don't stay renewed with your mind, then a weak spirit, means weak faith. You read it all over the forums, believers who have no faith.

Jud_1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Praying in the Holy Spirit, or Spirit Paul said it can be praying in tongues. I gave the scripture for that. Tongues is a very valuable tool for all believers. If our faith did not need Bolstered, then this scripture would not be there.

Most don't know what Bible faith is anyway. The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Most only have faith they are saved, but there is a whole lot more to have faith in.

Example of many of Tongues with Faith: Grandma

I was just writing something and I got inside I need to pray. You know it's time to pray when you can't concentrate on anything else and you have the strong unction (Urge but more inside) to pray.

Just pray.

What do you pray about? This is where Tongues come in real handy for the Holy Spirit will help us pray according to the will of God and for intercession on behalf of the saints. We don't always know what we ought to pray. I may know on the surface you need prayer for healing, but I don't know why your sick in the first place or what is behind everything. Sickness is of the curse, so we might need to know more than just you being sick.

So, I started to pray in tongues, whatever I needed to pray about, would be taken care of. I start off in tongues and that will bring you more into the spirit and less into the flesh.
As I am just praying I see inside lights, an ambulance, and the inside of an emergency room. I stop for a moment thinking something happened to one of my kids or my wife.

Then I came to myself and said, no............ The Holy Spirit will help me pray though this, I don't need to be alarmed or troubled. I just need to keep praying.

I continued to pray in tongues, and I had another vision, I saw my grandpa, then I knew. Soon after praying a lot longer I got this laugh inside, a joy inside. Hard to explain but then you know you prayed and it's taken care of.

I called my Grandma and told her I knew she was at the Hospital with Grandpa and everything was going to be OK. She is use to me doing things like that and she said in the emergency room she asked for prayer, if God would have someone pray for her. She said she felt peace come in the room.

This is one reason we all should seek the gift of tongues. This is one of many, many stories I have. Supernatural prayer is better than just us praying. I would not even known what to pray, but since I have tongues then I don't have to know, I just pray through.

Blessings.
Believe me Mike when I say that I understand what you are saying. Been there and done that a long time ago.

I know you feel that praying in tongues is enabling you to have a proper prayer language. I see that you see very strongly about it, and I have no desire to argue about it. However, "prayer language" is not a term used in the Word of God. It is a term used by the denomination which encourages the speaking in tongues. So you by your own admission of Bible followers should look into that fact.

Then it needs to be considered that all the gifts given by God were given so that we could build one another up, not use them in a private self absorbed usage. The Bible stresses that it is the church that is to be edified, not the person.

1 Corth. 14:12
"Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church'.

My encouragement to you is for you to carefully evaluate your motivation.

Is it for you or the church?

Is it for the glory of God, or is it pressure from a group of individuals to do what they are doing?

Do you feel that you would be lesser of a saint than others if you did not speak or pray in tongues?

Does not the Bible urge even declare that we are to pursue love and not tongues , teaching above tongues?
 

MichaelH

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Believe me Mike when I say that I understand what you are saying. Been there and done that a long time ago.

I know you feel that praying in tongues is enabling you to have a proper prayer language. I see that you see very strongly about it, and I have no desire to argue about it. However, "prayer language" is not a term used in the Word of God. It is a term used by the denomination which encourages the speaking in tongues. So you by your own admission of Bible followers should look into that fact.

Then it needs to be considered that all the gifts given by God were given so that we could build one another up, not use them in a private self absorbed usage. The Bible stresses that it is the church that is to be edified, not the person.

1 Corth. 14:12
"Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church'.

My encouragement to you is for you to carefully evaluate your motivation.

Is it for you or the church?

Is it for the glory of God, or is it pressure from a group of individuals to do what they are doing?

Do you feel that you would be lesser of a saint than others if you did not speak or pray in tongues?

Does not the Bible urge even declare that we are to pursue love and not tongues , teaching above tongues?

Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(1Co 14:12-15)

Couple things here. Tongues is a spiritual gift. Speaking in Tongues, Paul called it praying, not the term Prayer Language, but speaking in Tongues is praying. Speaking in tongues is prayer with the spirit.

Jesus said....... These signs shall follow those that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick, cast out devils and speak new tongues. All 3 supernatural signs the Lord confirms his Word with.

I have been praying in tongues for over 16 years or so, I could care less what people think at church. I have never spoken tongues at church.

So we just don't take a spiritual gift and try to naturalize it. It's a real gift to edify the believer. I am way past any pressure from anyone, if Tongues was not actually helpful and useable then I would not even bother with it.

You and I are told to stay filled with the spirit, by hymns, melody, psalms to the Lord. Tongues is a great way to do that praying in the Holy Ghost building up your most holy Faith. It builds you up, and the more I am built up, the more I can help someone else.

Just praying for things with our own natural understanding is not praying in the spirit as Paul called it. Paul said he will pray in the spirit and with understanding, so we could use both to help us.

I can't help someone if my own cup is empty. Tongues is also a quick way to hear God and get wisdom. There is not scripture for that but ask anyone that does speak in tongues.

When I need to hear God I speak to him in mystery Paul called it. My spirit prays, I bypass my limitation of natural things.

I don't know what to tell you Major, Tongues saved my son, saved a brother waiting on a ambulance, the list goes on. When you need to hear God and get past the devils and find out things then Tongues is a awesome tool for us.

If nothing happened or Tongues was no value then I would not even bother with it. Paul said prove all things, Hold to that which is true and tongues have proven to be a life saver, and a great tool to help me, help someone else.

For we don't know what we should pray, I don't know what the devil is doing to make someone sick, or the root of something, but the Holy Spirit prays with me according to the will of God for the intercession of the saints.

All I can suggest is if Paul called it prayer and praying in the spirit then it's something you should seek God about and get ride of all your objections. It's right there is scripture. It will bless you greatly.


 
Sep 3, 2009
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Eph says that Christ (Greek for anointed one and His anointing) Dwells in our heart by Faith. Paul said we give prophecy according to the faith given us or that we have. So, any gift would have to operate by those that believe.

However, being filled with the Holy Spirit will bring signs.
Are you then saying that speaking in Tongues is "THE" sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit?
 
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Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(1Co 14:12-15)

Couple things here. Tongues is a spiritual gift. Speaking in Tongues, Paul called it praying, not the term Prayer Language, but speaking in Tongues is praying. Speaking in tongues is prayer with the spirit.

Jesus said....... These signs shall follow those that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick, cast out devils and speak new tongues. All 3 supernatural signs the Lord confirms his Word with.

I have been praying in tongues for over 16 years or so, I could care less what people think at church. I have never spoken tongues at church.

So we just don't take a spiritual gift and try to naturalize it. It's a real gift to edify the believer. I am way past any pressure from anyone, if Tongues was not actually helpful and useable then I would not even bother with it.

You and I are told to stay filled with the spirit, by hymns, melody, psalms to the Lord. Tongues is a great way to do that praying in the Holy Ghost building up your most holy Faith. It builds you up, and the more I am built up, the more I can help someone else.

Just praying for things with our own natural understanding is not praying in the spirit as Paul called it. Paul said he will pray in the spirit and with understanding, so we could use both to help us.

I can't help someone if my own cup is empty. Tongues is also a quick way to hear God and get wisdom. There is not scripture for that but ask anyone that does speak in tongues.

When I need to hear God I speak to him in mystery Paul called it. My spirit prays, I bypass my limitation of natural things.

I don't know what to tell you Major, Tongues saved my son, saved a brother waiting on a ambulance, the list goes on. When you need to hear God and get past the devils and find out things then Tongues is a awesome tool for us.

If nothing happened or Tongues was no value then I would not even bother with it. Paul said prove all things, Hold to that which is true and tongues have proven to be a life saver, and a great tool to help me, help someone else.

For we don't know what we should pray, I don't know what the devil is doing to make someone sick, or the root of something, but the Holy Spirit prays with me according to the will of God for the intercession of the saints.

All I can suggest is if Paul called it prayer and praying in the spirit then it's something you should seek God about and get ride of all your objections. It's right there is scripture. It will bless you greatly.
" Speaking in Tongues, Paul called it praying, not the term Prayer Language, but speaking in Tongues is praying. Speaking in tongues is prayer with the spirit. "

That is what you are saying Mike and wanting it to be said but that is not the case at all. Paul said what he wanted to say and it was and is right there for us to see.
"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.".

That does not seem to be saying what you just posted does it????

The Bible says and you quoted:
"These signs shall follow those that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick, cast out devils and speak new tongues. All 3 supernatural signs the Lord confirms his Word with."

But you did not quote the whole verse. The whole verse says "TO THE ELEVEN".

He was speaking to the disciples who were being commissioned by Jesus as HIs apostles and to THEM the ELEVEN He gave several gifts to protect them in their travels. IF we are to claim tongues as one we can do, then we must claim ALL of the sign gifts as they are a package. We do not get to pick and choose what we like to do and reject the rest. Therefore IF we speak in tongues we WILL be able to raise the dead and drink bleach.

Can that be confirmed by another witness as you have already stated was your way of proof?

YES.......Hebrews 2:1
"Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things WE have heard lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward,
how shall WE escape so great salvation which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord AND WAS CONFIRMED UNTO US BY THEM THAT HEARD HIM". God also bearing THEM witness both with signs and wonders and with divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will?

The WE and THEM of Hebrews are the ELEVEN of Matt. 28"s commission by the Lord Jesus.

There are NO apostles today Mike. That tells me that there are no sign gifts. YES, I know that is not what we want to hear and YES I know that you and others will not accept that. But my friend, it is you who has said that you are 100% a Bible man.

Please, do not think I am set against what you are wanting to do. I am giving you exactly what you wanted, Bible Truth.

Again, if you choose to do tongues it is your choice and no one can look down at those who do not speak or pray in tongues.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(1 Co 14:12-15

Couple things here. Tongues is a spiritual gift. Speaking in Tongues, Paul called it praying, not the term Prayer Language, but speaking in Tongues is praying. Speaking in tongues is prayer with the spirit.

Jesus said....... These signs shall follow those that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick, cast out devils and speak new tongues. All 3 supernatural signs the Lord confirms his Word with.

I have been praying in tongues for over 16 years or so, I could care less what people think at church. I have never spoken tongues at church.

So we just don't take a spiritual gift and try to naturalize it. It's a real gift to edify the believer. I am way past any pressure from anyone, if Tongues was not actually helpful and useable then I would not even bother with it.

You and I are told to stay filled with the spirit, by hymns, melody, psalms to the Lord. Tongues is a great way to do that praying in the Holy Ghost building up your most holy Faith. It builds you up, and the more I am built up, the more I can help someone else.

Just praying for things with our own natural understanding is not praying in the spirit as Paul called it. Paul said he will pray in the spirit and with understanding, so we could use both to help us.

I can't help someone if my own cup is empty. Tongues is also a quick way to hear God and get wisdom. There is not scripture for that but ask anyone that does speak in tongues.

When I need to hear God I speak to him in mystery Paul called it. My spirit prays, I bypass my limitation of natural things.

I don't know what to tell you Major, Tongues saved my son, saved a brother waiting on a ambulance, the list goes on. When you need to hear God and get past the devils and find out things then Tongues is a awesome tool for us.

If nothing happened or Tongues was no value then I would not even bother with it. Paul said prove all things, Hold to that which is true and tongues have proven to be a life saver, and a great tool to help me, help someone else.

For we don't know what we should pray, I don't know what the devil is doing to make someone sick, or the root of something, but the Holy Spirit prays with me according to the will of God for the intercession of the saints.

All I can suggest is if Paul called it prayer and praying in the spirit then it's something you should seek God about and get ride of all your objections. It's right there is scripture. It will bless you greatly.
Your quote Mike was.........
"Tongues is also a quick way to hear God and get wisdom. There is not scripture for that but ask anyone that does speak in tongues. "

That Mike is absolutely true, so then I must ask you IF that is the case, then why do you speak in tongues??????

Now when I read comment #15 of this thread you repeat what you have said on another thread and that is.........
"You know, I am 100% scripture only."

Mike, do you see what is happening. You say one thing, and I agree with it, and then change it to accommodate your desires when the Bible does not say it and even admitting "......There is not scripture for that but ask anyone that does speak in tongues. "

Bible exegesis does not work that way. The Scriptures say one thing and only one thing and they do not change. We can not change them or them meaning to fit what we want them to say at any particular time.

That my friend is the greatest mistake in trying to learn the Bible. It is what is not what we want it to be.
 
Apr 22, 2013
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Tahiti
I'm like Major, I've been around too many people that claim to speak in tongues, claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but their lives outside of the five minutes during the church service do not manifest any of the holiness or the fruit of the Holy Spirit, in fact I have found them to be the most prideful, obnoxious, know-it-all people I have ever met.

In the context of strictly following the Word, I'm curious what those that claim everyone has to speak in tongues do with Paul's rhetorical question in 1 Cor 12:30

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

It's obvious Paul is teaching us that not everyone will speak in tongues, because if we turn it around to mean we will all speak in tongues then we all will have the gift of healing and interpretation too, ...it's amazing how we just throw grammar out the window to make Scripture fit our needs, ...didn't Peter teach us there are some that wrest/pervert/twist the Scripture to their own destruction?.

Now, to be fair, out of all of the gibberish I've heard all of my life, before and after I was born again I must say I have heard true speaking in tongues, one time, at a men's retreat, it was the most beautiful, wonderful, magnificent sound, like a trumpet, but not hurting the ears, I have ever heard, I was so filled with peace and I felt so loved, Jesus said My sheep know My voice, I heard the voice of Jesus that night, and the interpretation was from a different man but the same sound, glorifying, magnifying and praising the wonderful works of God, kinda sounds like Acts 2, also notice it was not prophesy to the church because afterwards the pastor gave the gospel and asked the men that wanted salvation to stand up, about 60-70 souls were add to the Kingdom that night, ...to me, that is Biblical speaking in tongues, ...the gibberish (Isa 8:19), well, Jesus said my sheep will not listen to stranger, in fact they will flee from him.

Sorry if I have stepped on some toes, but I have to deal with those poor souls that have prayed and haven't received the gift of tongues, their faith shipwrecked, ready to turn away from Jesus, for me the emphasis of tongues does more damage than good in the Body of Christ.

Gene
 
Sep 3, 2009
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First we don't loose friendship over tongues, that is dumb. Second each thread is different so I don't carry one thought of a persons beliefs over to the next thread.

Last thing is this............. Don't over study to the place to remove a simple concept. We talked about this, like removing hell by looking at language and things.

Tongues is just not for church......................... Anything you do like speaking in tongues edify and build up your most holy faith which in effect increases anointing. Strife and division decreases anointing.



What did Jesus say to them? What did Paul say?

Jesus said, no other sign will be given but that of Jonah being in the belly of the fish (Whale, sea monster, whatever) for 3 days.
The temple rent in two when Jesus died.

They were not looking for some Miracle of healing or anything like that, they hung out at church to catch him doing miracles on the Sabbath. Healing and things by the Holy Spirit was not in question. The sign they wanted was for him to prove He was the Messiah. His resurrection from the grave was the proof.

Paul said the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks want it to make sense by Wisdom. Nobody denied the Miracles, they Denied the one doing the Miracles, even to accuse him of using devil power to cast out devils.


If your baptized with the Holy Spirit, that comes with ability to witness, gifts. There is power in one's life.

ABC NEWS Scientific study of the Gift of tongues.
Allow me to speak to those who are not responding maybe because they do not want to be in a confrontation because they do not know enough about the subject to be involved in speaking to it.

I am not a person to "correct" or ague with anyone. I simply repeat what the Scriptures do actually say and leave them with you to decide what it right or wrong.

The bottom line truth is that in the very beginning of the Christian church there was confusion around the practice of tongues.
Now, in reality, when you see the word "tongues" in the Scripture, Paul is using the word "LANGUAGE". In Corinth, 2000 years ago, a fantastic trade center had been established and when people came to the city they wanted to go to their place of their religion.

Corinth was the ancient city that had the temple worship which was a place where male and female prostitutes were used to "cleanse" the spirit of those who worshipped there. Even Plato in Greece practiced this kind of religion. Now then, one of the things done in this worship experience was to "Speak in un-intelligible utterances" or better said, TONGUES.

People being people then of course brought that practice in to the early church at Corinth thinking that is was one of the things to do when worshipping God. That is one of the reason why 1 & 2nd Corinthians are referred to as "Correction Epistle". He wrote to the church to instruct them in the proper and correct way of worship to the God of Creation.

Because of the confusion surrounding tongues, Paul set parameters to govern the use of tongues in the Christian church. According to 1 Corth. 14:27-28 the regulations were........

1. Only two or at the very most 3 people were to speak in tongues.
2. Only ONE was to speak at a time.
3. Each person was to have an interpreter.
4. If no interpreter was present, the person was not to speak or pray in tongues.

Now, that is what the Bible says. Open your Bible, read it allow the truth to sink in. Those are the guidelines then and the same apply today. THEY CAN NOT BE CHANGED IN ANY WAY TO MAKE THEM ACCEPTABLE TO ANY PERSON OR CHURCH.

Please. Do some study and homework on this. What you will find was that immature Christians were trying to outdo one another spiritually. They were misusing the gift of tongues as a spiritual show and tell time......../ I can do this. Yea well, I can do that and this too/ Yea but I am so spiritual I can do both of those things.

That is the historical truth and time does not change that kind of attitude in people.

I, just as well as Mike view the Bible as my textbook and I believe it to be the completed Word of God without error. I need to see what it says about faith and practice and I would in my heart be remiss if I did not see what it says about the gift of tongues and fail to tell you about it.

Tongues was a valid SIGN gift, given by Jesus to the Apostles as a way to validate the message and the messenger when these men went into strange countries and did not know the language there. There simply are no Apostles today and in reality since we have the Bible as God's revelation, there is no need for tongues. NO new revelations are coming forth that need a sign to confirm them. The book is finished and it does not need validation or authentication which is exactly why Paul said that we should want to have the ability to TEACH not speak in tongues.
 
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I'm like Major, I've been around too many people that claim to speak in tongues, claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but their lives outside of the five minutes during the church service do not manifest any of the holiness or the fruit of the Holy Spirit, in fact I have found them to be the most prideful, obnoxious, know-it-all people I have ever met.

In the context of strictly following the Word, I'm curious what those that claim everyone has to speak in tongues do with Paul's rhetorical question in 1 Cor 12:30

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

It's obvious Paul is teaching us that not everyone will speak in tongues, because if we turn it around to mean we will all speak in tongues then we all will have the gift of healing and interpretation too, ...it's amazing how we just throw grammar out the window to make Scripture fit our needs, ...didn't Peter teach us there are some that wrest/pervert/twist the Scripture to their own destruction?.

Now, to be fair, out of all of the gibberish I've heard all of my life, before and after I was born again I must say I have heard true speaking in tongues, one time, at a men's retreat, it was the most beautiful, wonderful, magnificent sound, like a trumpet, but not hurting the ears, I have ever heard, I was so filled with peace and I felt so loved, Jesus said My sheep know My voice, I heard the voice of Jesus that night, and the interpretation was from a different man but the same sound, glorifying, magnifying and praising the wonderful works of God, kinda sounds like Acts 2, also notice it was not prophesy to the church because afterwards the pastor gave the gospel and asked the men that wanted salvation to stand up, about 60-70 souls were add to the Kingdom that night, ...to me, that is Biblical speaking in tongues, ...the gibberish (Isa 8:19), well, Jesus said my sheep will not listen to stranger, in fact they will flee from him.

Sorry if I have stepped on some toes, but I have to deal with those poor souls that have prayed and haven't received the gift of tongues, their faith shipwrecked, ready to turn away from Jesus, for me the emphasis of tongues does more damage than good in the Body of Christ.

Gene
Good stuff Gene! Don't worry about my toes, I only have 8 left anyway.

Your comment of.........."but I have to deal with those poor souls that have prayed and haven't received the gift of tongues, their faith shipwrecked, ready to turn away from Jesus, for me the emphasis of tongues does more damage than good in the Body of Christ"......
was right on the money my brother. Been there and done that and am still having to do it.
 
Apr 22, 2013
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Tahiti
If I might add to what Major has said, Jesus said these signs will follow you, He also said to preach the Gospel first in Jerusalem, Samaria and then the utter most parts of the earth, and that is what Dr Luke has recorded for us, the three places that speaking in tongues is mentioned is Jerusalem, Samaria and then at that time the utter most part of the earth, Paul confirms this for us in Col 1:6 that by the year 56 AD the Gospel had been preached in all of the world, in these instances tongues was a sign that the eleven+one had accomplished the great commission Jesus gave to them.

Gene
 

MichaelH

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Your quote Mike was.........
"Tongues is also a quick way to hear God and get wisdom. There is not scripture for that but ask anyone that does speak in tongues. "
Now when I read comment #15 of this thread you repeat what you have said on another thread and that is.........
"You know, I am 100% scripture only."

Mike, do you see what is happening. You say one thing, and I agree with it, and then change it to accommodate your desires when the Bible does not say it and even admitting "......There is not scripture for that but ask anyone that does speak in tongues. "
OK Major. First, Jesus was speaking to the 11 and for those that believe and are baptized. He was speaking us also because we believe. If we start down this road, then whosoever believes on him might not be for us because He was not talking to us but them and anyone that heard.

We don't spiritualize something because we lack faith. We don't say that was for them when the Holy Spirit gave it to us. We change our thinking and believe.

Just because I don't want to believe in Healing, does not mean by his stripes we are healed is just some spiritual thing nobody knows. It means we are actually healed and that is physical.

Just because I don't have something I see in the Word does not make it not so or unobtainable.

I showed you........... Tongues is praying in the Spirit. Paul said that, and so it must be something we should look into and get also because praying is a good thing. Paul said when you speak tongues, speak to yourself and God. Speaking to God is a good thing, being edified is a good thing. We should find out what the tongues thing is all about.

Lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. Why? Because I believe just like the 11 and God is no respecter of persons. Peter said this man was made whole by faith in the name of Jesus. The name has not lost power so it must be a faith issue if it don't work for someone.

Major........ read the word simply.

If I could spend time with you, then you could see the operation of tongues. In fact it would not even be that hard for you to also receive the gift also. It is really a simple thing of asking and believe that your recieve. Just like when someone gets born again.

If I talk myself out of it, then I don't expect or hope for it.

Every single spiritual gift does not have scripture for scripture on how it operates. The Spirit of God is vast and we had a thread along these lines about that. I can't give scripture on how tongues has worked in my life in all instances. It changes languages, I get a word of Wisdom from God. It's prayer, and like English prayer for Wisdom.

I don't accept spiritual things that don't line up with the Word. I know that can cover a whole lot of stuff, but we have the word to keep the devil out.

15 or so Years Brother I have been speaking in tongues and been around it. You just can't pass it off as everyone got confused.
You can speak in tongues and write a paper, you can't do that speaking English because you need your head to write the paper. It's real easy to tell the real thing because Tongues comes from the spirit, not the head.

Simple, like a child, if Jesus said you shall speak new tongues, then don't complicate it. People attempt to remove hell by these methods and we just want to read and believe.

In the context of strictly following the Word, I'm curious what those that claim everyone has to speak in tongues do with Paul's rhetorical question in 1 Cor 12:30

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?


Sorry if I have stepped on some toes, but I have to deal with those poor souls that have prayed and haven't received the gift of tongues, their faith shipwrecked, ready to turn away from Jesus, for me the emphasis of tongues does more damage than good in the Body of Christ.

Gene
Your misreading what Paul said. I went over it in other post, but you don't take a scripture out of context. Only by 2-3 IN CHURCH to avoid confusion should here be tongues if that is what the person leading the service wants to do. Decent and in Order.

You also missed the Verse Where Paul also said...... I wish ye all spoke in tongues, but there is a better way. So you best get cracking and get in line with getting those tongues.

Also, there is no such thing as someone's faith that is shipwrecked because God did not keep his word. That means they stopped believing somewhere, not God's fault. Abraham is a good example of someone that counted God faithful that promised and he waited a very long time, years and years.

Real faith never gets discouraged, and their hope is not made ashamed.

Tongues is very simple to receive. I have run into the hard headed but I normally can get through to where they get it and receive. You have to value something though to receive it. If you don't see value in something God has for you, then seeking it won't last but a few weeks before you give up.

It seems we need lessons on faith, something that should have been taught right off the bat as a new believer.

Blessings.l
 
Apr 22, 2013
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Mike, I'm sorry, I'm laughing, ...you don't know me and you don't know what the Lord has told me to do in faith (and I don't speak in tongues, sure would like to though, because the French language is hard for me), I'll become foolish like Paul, but here goes, 23 years ago the Lord spoke to my heart to come here, with 3 conditions, go on a one way ticket, don't take any legal papers that would allow me to stay, and don't accept any money from any church or person. It's impossible for a non-French citizen to board the plane without a return trip ticket, but we did, it's impossible for a non-French citizen to stay longer than 6 months, but we did, twice I was called to French Immigration to explain what I was doing here and how was I paying my expenses and the Lord intervened for me, in fact it was 3 1/2 years after I came here He introduced me to my bride and through her I have my French nationality, I had dear brothers and sisters offering to support me and my church wanted to support me too, but I politely refused and got off the plane without a penny in my pocket, Father gave me odd jobs to buy my daily bread, the money was like manna there was never enough for the next day, I would wake up in the morning hungry and the Spirit would speak to my heart to go to the store with the money I had, a baguette cost 35 francs and I didn't have 35 francs, but because I obeyed and stepped out in faith I found enough coins to buy the baguette along side of the road and that is a miracle because if you have ever visited or lived in a third world country there isn't money laying along side of the road, Father first gave me a bicycle to carry my tools to work, then he provided a scooter, one day as I was going to work, I was hungry, but didn't have any money to buy a baguette, but I heard the Spirit say in my heart to go to work, along the way the scooter had a flat tire, I pulled over to the side of the road and as I lowered the stand there was 5$ buried in the mud, ...that's just a hand full of instances, I've lived here 23 years, that's roughly 8,400 days of walking in faith daily, I could write books of how the Lord is faithful, so don't try to tell me about faith when you are living in a comfy home in the States with everything you need or want at your finger tips.

And talking about a home, it took us 5 years to build ours, one concrete block at a time from the money the Lord provided for us, but those were five good years in trusting in the Lord for what we needed and when we did move in it wasn't finished, we didn't have a kitchen, used a BBQ grill to cook on ad washed the dishes in the bathroom, the doors except two were covered with plywood.............., oops, finished with my rant, sorry people.

I guess the point I'm trying to get across is from what I see you are saying is you have faith in faith, I have faith in/from God, He has told me to step out and I obeyed, what I see you saying is you have faith in faith to do what you do, big difference, faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God, your faith comes from your ability to speak in tongues, ...faith in faith.

Gene
 
Sep 3, 2009
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OK Major. First, Jesus was speaking to the 11 and for those that believe and are baptized. He was speaking us also because we believe. If we start down this road, then whosoever believes on him might not be for us because He was not talking to us but them and anyone that heard.

We don't spiritualize something because we lack faith. We don't say that was for them when the Holy Spirit gave it to us. We change our thinking and believe.

Just because I don't want to believe in Healing, does not mean by his stripes we are healed is just some spiritual thing nobody knows. It means we are actually healed and that is physical.

Just because I don't have something I see in the Word does not make it not so or unobtainable.

I showed you........... Tongues is praying in the Spirit. Paul said that, and so it must be something we should look into and get also because praying is a good thing. Paul said when you speak tongues, speak to yourself and God. Speaking to God is a good thing, being edified is a good thing. We should find out what the tongues thing is all about.

Lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. Why? Because I believe just like the 11 and God is no respecter of persons. Peter said this man was made whole by faith in the name of Jesus. The name has not lost power so it must be a faith issue if it don't work for someone.

Major........ read the word simply.

If I could spend time with you, then you could see the operation of tongues. In fact it would not even be that hard for you to also receive the gift also. It is really a simple thing of asking and believe that your recieve. Just like when someone gets born again.

If I talk myself out of it, then I don't expect or hope for it.

Every single spiritual gift does not have scripture for scripture on how it operates. The Spirit of God is vast and we had a thread along these lines about that. I can't give scripture on how tongues has worked in my life in all instances. It changes languages, I get a word of Wisdom from God. It's prayer, and like English prayer for Wisdom.

I don't accept spiritual things that don't line up with the Word. I know that can cover a whole lot of stuff, but we have the word to keep the devil out.

15 or so Years Brother I have been speaking in tongues and been around it. You just can't pass it off as everyone got confused.
You can speak in tongues and write a paper, you can't do that speaking English because you need your head to write the paper. It's real easy to tell the real thing because Tongues comes from the spirit, not the head.

Simple, like a child, if Jesus said you shall speak new tongues, then don't complicate it. People attempt to remove hell by these methods and we just want to read and believe.



Your misreading what Paul said. I went over it in other post, but you don't take a scripture out of context. Only by 2-3 IN CHURCH to avoid confusion should here be tongues if that is what the person leading the service wants to do. Decent and in Order.

You also missed the Verse Where Paul also said...... I wish ye all spoke in tongues, but there is a better way. So you best get cracking and get in line with getting those tongues.

Also, there is no such thing as someone's faith that is shipwrecked because God did not keep his word. That means they stopped believing somewhere, not God's fault. Abraham is a good example of someone that counted God faithful that promised and he waited a very long time, years and years.

Real faith never gets discouraged, and their hope is not made ashamed.

Tongues is very simple to receive. I have run into the hard headed but I normally can get through to where they get it and receive. You have to value something though to receive it. If you don't see value in something God has for you, then seeking it won't last but a few weeks before you give up.

It seems we need lessons on faith, something that should have been taught right off the bat as a new believer.

Blessings.l
Mike......."It seems we need lessons on faith, something that should have been taught right off the bat as a new believer."
You really think that is the problem here Mike???

You said.......
"Just because I don't have something I see in the Word does not make it not so or unobtainable."

Really???? What does that even mean?


Mike, can you raise the dead and drink poison water as the Scripture says you will be able to???
Where and when?


You said......"He was speaking us also because we believe".
No He wasn't Mike. As the Bible clearly says, ELEVEN. He was speaking to the ELEVEN and Hebrews 4:1-4 validates that as I showed you.
 

MichaelH

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Nov 27, 2013
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Mike......."It seems we need lessons on faith, something that should have been taught right off the bat as a new believer."
You really think that is the problem here Mike???

You said.......
"Just because I don't have something I see in the Word does not make it not so or unobtainable."

Really???? What does that even mean?


Mike, can you raise the dead and drink poison water as the Scripture says you will be able to???
Where and when?


You said......"He was speaking us also because we believe".
No He wasn't Mike. As the Bible clearly says, ELEVEN. He was speaking to the ELEVEN and Hebrews 4:1-4 validates that as I showed you.
Actually I did drink poison, not recommended though.
(if you call bleach, window cleaner and something else poison)

See this is where we are not going to agree. I don't pick and choose what I believe, I believe all of it.

So He spoke to the 11.
Where did the 11 get their information? From the Master.

What did Jesus say?

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
(Joh 17:20)

Who Wrote Mark 16?

These signs shall follow them that shall believe. Did that just include the 11 according to what the Holy Spirit said to Mark?
Did not Jesus tell us to believe on their Word. Was not Mark part of that 11?

Paul said tongues is prayer, Pray in the spirit. Is prayer good?

So we believe, we were Baptized and these signs shall follow those that believe, not just the 11. Jesus was not concerned about the 11 not believing, so it must be for ALL us who believe on the name of Jesus. Not just the 11.

That means you and I qualify to have the Word confirmed with signs following.

Paul said despise not prophecy. Why? Because everyone must had a prophecy and most of it was not thus saith the Lord, So Paul said prove all things, hold to that which is true.

Prove all things.

How long have you honestly sought the gift of tongues?
One guy got mad at me because I told him he never sought the gift so he should not complain he does not have the gift. Seek and we find. He said he did for a full 8 weeks and I don't know what I am talking about.

8 whole weeks he is in faith. Big deal.

How many people you laid hands on and expected them to recover?

Have you proved this out yet?

How many devils have you cast out?

have you proved this out yet?

How much poison have you drank and been OK?


(don't prove this one out for we don't tempt god, but the promise is there.)

We get a whole lot of opinions and not enough stepping out and seeking God. I can promise though, you will find if you take the time to seek. God is not respecter of persons and believing on the name of Jesus has not lost any power.

It's faith. What am I willing to believe? Will the Lord find faith when He returns? If there was going to be lots of his people with faith, then he would not have asked it, so real faith must be rare.

If Tongues was not so easy to receive then I would understand where you coming from. The gift is for the Body of Christ for all that believe on the name of Jesus. If Jesus said it then it must be so.
 
Jul 22, 2010
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<<<SNIP>>>
You also missed the Verse Where Paul also said...... I wish ye all spoke in tongues, but there is a better way. So you best get cracking and get in line with getting those tongues.

Also, there is no such thing as someone's faith that is shipwrecked because God did not keep his word. That means they stopped believing somewhere, not God's fault. Abraham is a good example of someone that counted God faithful that promised and he waited a very long time, years and years.

Real faith never gets discouraged, and their hope is not made ashamed.

Tongues is very simple to receive. I have run into the hard headed but I normally can get through to where they get it and receive. You have to value something though to receive it. If you don't see value in something God has for you, then seeking it won't last but a few weeks before you give up.

It seems we need lessons on faith, something that should have been taught right off the bat as a new believer.

Blessings.l
Ohh Boy! here we go again!
You say, "If you don't see value in something God has for you, then seeking it won't last but a few weeks before you give up. "
May I respectfully observe that if a person sees no value in a thing, they will not spend any time seeking it??
It seems to me that when studying tongues or any other gifts of the Spirit, we need to study the whole of scripture that deals with it.
That would consume much time and nervous energy:)
Mike I believe you cited 1Cor 13:1 earlier?
People need at a very minimum to begin their study with :
1Cor 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.
He goes on to try to put all this in perspective.........well might he try!!!
Now concerning a small part of his discussion as recorded in 1 Cor 13:1
1Cor 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. ESV
1Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,I am become as sounding brass,orG2228 a tinkling cymbal.Kjv
Paul was not one for uttering a compendium of 'one liners'. Instead he used a discussion style which made extensive use of logic.
Now looking at what he said in the subject verse, he prefaced it with an argument by logic. "If I","Though I" and these can not be taken as a statement by Paul that he does in fact speak the language used by angels.
As Major reminded you you say that
"You know, I am 100% scripture only."
OK, so we would all make that claim wouldn't we?
You know, if you look closely at what Paul writes, not only here but most everywhere else, you will see an "If,Then,Else" argument style which is well known to any assembly language programmer of today. <<If this is true, then that is true, else something else is true>>
So, he is not making an unconditional 'true' statement here.
Can I encourage you please, to look at the whole of Paul's words not just the parts that may say something that seems to bolster your view.
I have to say though, that for the most part I have enjoyed reading your posts and I have come to respect you...a lot.
If speaking in tongues is true for you, so be it.
If you believe (contrary to Paul's own counsel) that all Christians should speak in tongues, show by the correct and honoring use of Scripture that this is so. Can you do this??
If you can not, OK, so I for one can praise the Lord that He blesses you in your personal walk with Him through this gift, but you should not ever try to proselytize others. IMNSHO
 

MichaelH

Inactive
Nov 27, 2013
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Ohh Boy! here we go again!
You say, "If you don't see value in something God has for you, then seeking it won't last but a few weeks before you give up. "
May I respectfully observe that if a person sees no value in a thing, they will not spend any time seeking it??
It seems to me that when studying tongues or any other gifts of the Spirit, we need to study the whole of scripture that deals with it.
That would consume much time and nervous energy:)
Mike I believe you cited 1Cor 13:1 earlier?
People need at a very minimum to begin their study with :
1Cor 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.
He goes on to try to put all this in perspective.........well might he try!!!
Now concerning a small part of his discussion as recorded in 1 Cor 13:1
Hey Calvin!!! Glad to see you here. Paul was trying to get the issue of tongues in order. If you ever been to a church where everyone is just speaking in tongues it's much like a Circus. Paul said I wish ya all spoke in tongues...... But.

Tongues is not much use in Church, well prayer night, but not for regular services.

I grew up Baptist, so tongues was just make believe or it was the devil. That is what we were taught and it all passed away. I guess thinking someone can speak in tongues is better than that.

Paul said tongues was praying in spirit. (I already gave that scripture) Praying is good, and anything to help out praying would be a good idea.

In prison I got stuck with a bunch of believers that prayed in tongues. Strong black men who were KJV only. Well, who you going to hang out with? Baptist or not, it's all I had. I was also a noob at being a believer. Like real super noob.

Being the only white boy, hanging with the brothers was good. It took awhile but after seeing some healing and other things I got more interested on how that was possible. I been taught it's by God's will and if God don't will then your screwed.
I was never taught if you see something in the Word it's yours.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
(Mar 16:17)

The other brothers spoke in tongues every night for prayer time. I wanted to but had no clue how to go about doing that. I figured if I rubbed up against one of them it would just jump off on me. No dice though and that is strange to rub up on someone in prison.

I had the believe in Jesus part down. I just needed the tongue part down.

See Calvin. I just took God at his word back then. I did not have the luxury of of people talking me out of the things of God. I just believed it. The baptist church never taught on that scripture, I just found it.

All I had was my bible and I just followed what it said.

I wanted tongues though because I saw the value the others put on it and saw signs. I wanted to be like them.

Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

This is the issue with tongues, laying hands on the sick and all the other things people don't want to believe. They followed those who don't walk in it. I got lucky, I got stuck with a group that did walk in it.
You can talk scripture all day, but it's always been about who you follow, what have you seen.

I can't impart that to anyone here. However you can be like me, and get with God.

See I did not have anyone to just ask, and when I asked the bothers they just said... "Go ask God for the Holy Spirit Mike, then speak in tongues."

Just that simple, ya, right. It actually is but my head was in the way.

If it were not so, I would not say it.

Keep simple faith, read it, then just believe it.

blessings.
 
May 19, 2012
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(Wondering why I get no alerts :().
First off neither Mark, Luke or Paul were one of the eleven. I do not even want to go to whether Matthew actually wrote that gospel. So, in answer to your question, Michael - no Mark was not one of the original Disciples/Apostles.
Michael, you told me you have had a lot of success in getting others to speak in tongues, and I know this fuels your enthusiasm. I, now understand thru you and your sincerity, that what you do is good for you. I said already once in this thread - it can sound prideful to others. Saying that speaking in tongues, makes you more "annointed" "more spiritual" and "more effective praying" than others who don't speak in tongues causes this impression and it simply isn't true. When the Apostles were first filled with the Holy Spirit - their "speaking in tongues" was just the opposite of what you are saying - everyone who heard the Apostles speak heard the message in their own native language/tongue. Given the damage JustPassing has noted, I too thought it was more damaging. I can accept that it is personal proof, now, to some but some do not need it.
 
Apr 22, 2013
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Ya got it Silk!

I've heard faith compared to the steam in a locomotive, for some the steam (faith) is used to move the train down the track, for others the steam (faith) is used to toot the whistle.

Blessings,

Gene
 
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