Thanks I will try. Not sure what you meant by those things that clearly contradict your premise? What do you think my premise is?
Spiritual Death
- Thread starter MatthewG
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God's wrath was poured out on the Son at Gethsemane? Do you have Scriptural backing for that?
Good question, Garee, and I welcome your bringing it to the forefront in case there is any misunderstanding on my part:
It is not your conclusion, based upon numerous premises, that all the prophecies concerning the Tribulation are past and fulfilled, and that we are now allegedly living in what is called the Millennial Kingdom? Is that not one of your chief conclusions? If it is, then I have issues with your premises.
MM
Hello Musicmaster
There was a place called Garden of Eden where a snake wouldn't bite the hand of a child.
Even a lion would lay with the lamb.
That would be true wouldn't it? Unless that is a misunderstanding.
Seems though in the afterlife everything is going to be spiritual now. So do not know, but eden would be the place where the snake wouldn't bite the hand of the child. That place was also know as a place where Adam and eve both had communication with God, then sinned and cast out.
Now we can go right back into that Garden by faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ right? It is going right back into a relationship with God through faith, so... maybe that is where the snake that doesn't bite the child - though that snake would be an metaphor for any one trying to deceive someone.
Children are very like to be lead into temptation than grow mature adults - Son or Daughters of God would be.
Children of God would be more likely to be lead away when comes to temptation and even abandon the faith all together though there are those who would hang on.
This all just came to me on a whim.
Which also means we have a peace of heaven with-in us, through the holy spirit (the spirit of truth) - Kingdom of God / Kingdom of Heaven, and by the spirit of Christ
Luke 17:21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'
Luke 17:21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
What are your thoughts, and conclusions on this piece of information?
There was a place called Garden of Eden where a snake wouldn't bite the hand of a child.
Even a lion would lay with the lamb.
That would be true wouldn't it? Unless that is a misunderstanding.
Seems though in the afterlife everything is going to be spiritual now. So do not know, but eden would be the place where the snake wouldn't bite the hand of the child. That place was also know as a place where Adam and eve both had communication with God, then sinned and cast out.
Now we can go right back into that Garden by faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ right? It is going right back into a relationship with God through faith, so... maybe that is where the snake that doesn't bite the child - though that snake would be an metaphor for any one trying to deceive someone.
Children are very like to be lead into temptation than grow mature adults - Son or Daughters of God would be.
Children of God would be more likely to be lead away when comes to temptation and even abandon the faith all together though there are those who would hang on.
This all just came to me on a whim.
Which also means we have a peace of heaven with-in us, through the holy spirit (the spirit of truth) - Kingdom of God / Kingdom of Heaven, and by the spirit of Christ
Luke 17:21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'
Luke 17:21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
What are your thoughts, and conclusions on this piece of information?
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MG, the hermeneutical rules for biblical interpretation, along with so many other known rules for interpretation that have to do with language and translation from one to another, the shift in focus and tense you're proposing violates almost every precept and tenet for biblical interpretation known to man. The original writers who wrote the texts were inspired to write the text in a tense that is completely future when describing that time of the lion laying down with the lamp, etc. Do you understand that they spoke those things future tense? What you're proposing is a complete, lingual alteration from future tense to past tense. The Hebrew and the Greek from which our Bibles are translated do not support such a premise.
I encourage you to go back into the text and verify this for yourself. Once you read it for what it says, and avoid overlaying it with anything you think that you understand now, and just let it speak for itself, there should be enough there for your to begin questioning your current understanding. This isn't about you coming around to what I believe. It's about believing what's written. John wrote Revelation in about 96 AD, in the future tense, so that places it all far beyond 70 AD and whatever other subjective timeframe we may have read about in the musings of other doctrinal writers.
MM
Actually we are told that children of God are less likely to be tempted having the Spirit of God in them.
We are told to become as little children.
Mark 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. (KJV)
Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; (KJV)
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (KJV)
1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. (KJV)
The children of God have faith in God.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (KJV)
Oh those are good scriptures Cperkins however there are scriptures that we can people abandoning the faith.
Oh okay musicmaster thank you for setting my question the side.
Hebrews 6:
1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,a and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms,b the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do, if God permits.
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
~~ People do fall away, do not understand how, why, or what causes but damn this is true and really sucks to know that is why guess the people of faith are to encourage those who are weak?
Have a good rest of the evening.
Oh okay musicmaster thank you for setting my question the side.
Hebrews 6:
1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,a and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms,b the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do, if God permits.
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
~~ People do fall away, do not understand how, why, or what causes but damn this is true and really sucks to know that is why guess the people of faith are to encourage those who are weak?
Have a good rest of the evening.
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Hello Musicmaster
No. Because it seems to have been a warning letter to 7 churches in Asia Minor. Though this is the problem the dating is fact be varied through out differing time periods. Revelation is one of the most highly debated books in whether or not it should even be kept around in the bible, and they decided to keep it for it has meaning and a lot to it historically, and for us to look towards the coming heavenly Jerusalem.
Me personally believe it is speaking to them then about the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem and the restoration of all things unto the Lord God Almighty and all can have a relationship with Him freely through faith and believing - though there are people who waver and doubt the Lord some can even fall away - however God is going to resurrect everyone and those who are not caring for God shall place them on the outside of the kingdom of God with a spiritual body, and those inside of the kingdom of God with a spiritual body all given by God.
*Note having a relationship with God - by having a peace of the Kingdom of Heaven inside of you - Just like the Garden of Eden was before Adam and eve fell.
What is first must be last what is last must be first? Restoration of Eden. Restoration with Relationship with God through the Lord Jesus Christ. Restoration which was kept a mystery, and has now come to light.
You can tell me I am wrong - Ill admit maybe it is wrong - still doesn't mean that what is believed is not true.
Nor will it for you if you would like to share me your ideology of what you see.
There is freedom in the Lord Jesus Christ to have your own ideas, and thoughts, and interpertation of what you see in scripture it is not open for private interpretation you have a right to your side of things to good sir.
Almost sometimes when talking to you feel as though am beating my head against a brick wall, but that is okay people are tough to deal with. You may feel the same way with me.
If you feel led will you please answer my question?
What is the purpose of the Revelation will you explain to me the Ultimate Goal is for God if this is the Letter is going to be for us in future? From your own view?
Thank you for your time and patience with me.
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Musicmaster, what really resonated With Me Above All is when you said ...
what amazes me is that the Lord could love someone like me.... meaning myself. I do enjoy your explanations and articulations that I can understand. Thank you.
MG, I'm not sure what you're saying. I set your question aside? I continued addressing what I had originally discussed with you rather than to drift off into something that was/is unrelated to our previous posts.
If you recall, we were addressing your comment that seems to place the lion laying down with the lamb as what existed in the garden of Eden before the fall of mankind. What does falling away have to do with any of that? Let's not leap-frog off into something unrelated. Let's deal with the topic we were already discussing, THEN we can talk about people falling from grace, or whatever it is you're getting at. Can we do that?
MM
Musicmaster No? It is you play around to much and I hate it.
let’s just close the thread down (shrugs)
let’s just close the thread down (shrugs)
That there are numerous debates out there among the non-scholastic ranks of novices has nothing to do with what you and I are talking about. The topic at hand is that you are promoting a doctrinal take on it all that I don't think you can effectively and persuasively defend. Now, if you feel that you can, then I'm all ears (so to speak). I am genuinely interested in your defense for what you believe about prophecy.
The Lord thought it important that we know what is to come, and that being prepared is important to Him and to us. These prophecies serve as warnings of things to come that we may point at them to warn others that they too may prepare themselves. It is sobering to think that a time is coming when believers all over the world will be slaughtered, and the only way to avoid that is to be prepared for Christ fulfilling exactly what He and the angels said at His being taken up into the clouds from the disciples. The angels said He would come in like manner. In another place it is revealed that the dead in Christ, and then the living, will rise up to meet him in the clouds. That is before His second coming when His feet touch down on Mt. Zion, and He establishes His earthly Kingdom for a thousand years.
It is in that thousand years when the modern problem of harm will be demonstratably a false dichotomy. What I mean by that is, those who today ask how a loving and powerful God could allow such evil, many will see that even when Jesus rules the earth with a rod of iron, and therefore keeping such great evils from manifesting, many will STILL rebel against Christ. In other words, there's no pleasing mankind in his fallen state. It will prove how the heart is desperately wicked apart from the transforming power of Christ Jesus.
MM
Blessings to you and yours, my friend. I thank the Lord that He uses me to reach and bless others. To God be all the glory.
MM
Your belief is that Apolocaplyse is coming and the Lord is coming and we need to be ready for the end of days. Right? Cause that is what I’m getting here from you and that is cool and everything.
Thank you for sharing it with me.
my view is different in post 28.
It’s cool man glad this can finally be over between us because it’s been annoying from the start with all your big fancy writings and sayings.
Love you even though I wanna scruff your hair on your head if you have any for being so hard on me, God bless you and your family take care, cause we won’t be doing this talking back and forth anything any longer cause it drains me and I’m getting to old to care, and just let people believe how they see things it’s called love.
God bless we must forgive all people, for the Lord forgave us. Thanks be to God for the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you a lot musicmaster
(ps we probably don’t read everything we type to each other) I know I didn’t (arrogant and evil am I),
Thank you for sharing it with me.
my view is different in post 28.
It’s cool man glad this can finally be over between us because it’s been annoying from the start with all your big fancy writings and sayings.
Love you even though I wanna scruff your hair on your head if you have any for being so hard on me, God bless you and your family take care, cause we won’t be doing this talking back and forth anything any longer cause it drains me and I’m getting to old to care, and just let people believe how they see things it’s called love.
God bless we must forgive all people, for the Lord forgave us. Thanks be to God for the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you a lot musicmaster
(ps we probably don’t read everything we type to each other) I know I didn’t (arrogant and evil am I),
MM,
Your last paragraph. So very well said. And amen. Of much of this thread, these are the things that truly resonate with me... the extraordinary, almost incredible, love of our God and Jesus. And how we should be overwrought with gratitude.
Just a bit of Bible trivia.
The Bible actually says 'the wolf and the lamb'; many mistakenly say 'lion and lamb'...
Isaiah 11:6 ESV
[6] The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 65:25 ESV
[25] The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain," says the LORD.
The Bible actually says 'the wolf and the lamb'; many mistakenly say 'lion and lamb'...
Isaiah 11:6 ESV
[6] The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 65:25 ESV
[25] The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain," says the LORD.
Belinda,
The Lord is praised, and Jesus is come in the flesh. We will spend eternity growing in love for Him, and to learn of His eternal riches in love and relationship with Him. The Way, the Truth and the Life. Those three attributes, they describe a Person, not a thing, or an emotion, but a Person with Whom we will spend an eternity getting to know.
Of course, we do have a limitation in the here and now...eye has not seen, nor hear heard, nor has it entered the imagination the things He has prepared for us. Wow. How much greater is He who prepared what we can't even begin to imagine! My mind just can't think that high and lofty. That's why I ask for His Thoughts and His Ways, even though they are above ours as the heavens are above the earth. He is worthy of our praise and worship, for He gives to us so much.
MM
Well, how about that! You're right! I misrepresented what is actually said. I fibbed! Hmm. Glad the Lord is forgiving of us all for our lapses in memory. I confess my error.
MG, correction to my question to you:
Where in all of history from the time of that writing in Isaiah to now, has the wolf ever dwelt with the lamb, and the leopard lay down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together without the lion eating them both, and a child leading them? Granted, there are allegorical elements to that vision, but what about the real...the seen? The prophet was inspired to write imagery that is very real and tangible, especially lions eating grass like an ox. The spiritual dynamics of what must transpire to make that imagery real is something quite remarkable.
When has any of that happened, especially considering the future tense of it all. In other words, it's not backward looking. It's forward looking.
MM
MG, I may be in my 60's, but I'm also quite powerful in build. I worked out quite a bit through the years of my life, so I'm not some feeble old man...not yet. I hefted 102 pound lithium battery packs around the house over the past couple of days without much problem. So, scruffing my hair might have proven to be like grabbing a tiger by the tail with no thought to the teeth on the other end.... (Reminds me of that movie "Jungle Book.")
I'm more of a lover than a fighter these days, though. When I was your age, I was still pretty cocky, looking at most other guys as targets for whoopin'. Kick boxing tournaments can take a bunch of that out of a fella. I found out it's more fun loving others than fighting them. Warriors are always pretty beat up looking because they earn those scars. I know I earned mine, but looking back, I would willingly trade them in for memories of having loved others rather than to have given and taken blows to the body that were not expressions of love.
Anyway, it wasn't my intent to make you angry. Holding your feet to the fire of the topic at hand seems to have gotten under your skin. I won't pester you any more about the grounds for your beliefs. It's just the way I am. People fascinate me, and people easily angered by questions directed at the reasons behind their beliefs fascinate me even more. They say curiosity killed the cat. Good thing I'm no cat, because I would have been done in long ago...
MM
I'm more of a lover than a fighter these days, though. When I was your age, I was still pretty cocky, looking at most other guys as targets for whoopin'. Kick boxing tournaments can take a bunch of that out of a fella. I found out it's more fun loving others than fighting them. Warriors are always pretty beat up looking because they earn those scars. I know I earned mine, but looking back, I would willingly trade them in for memories of having loved others rather than to have given and taken blows to the body that were not expressions of love.
Anyway, it wasn't my intent to make you angry. Holding your feet to the fire of the topic at hand seems to have gotten under your skin. I won't pester you any more about the grounds for your beliefs. It's just the way I am. People fascinate me, and people easily angered by questions directed at the reasons behind their beliefs fascinate me even more. They say curiosity killed the cat. Good thing I'm no cat, because I would have been done in long ago...
MM
It's an all too common error, I believe either MG or Garee made it earler.
Some mistakenly think the Mandela effect kicks in on that passage,
The bottom line. The Mandela effect is an unusual phenomenon where a large group of people remember something differently than how it occurred. Conspiracy theorists believe this is proof of an alternate universe, while many doctors use it as an illustration of how imperfect memory can be sometimes.
The Mandela Effect: What It Is and How It Happens
The Mandela effect is a phenomenon where a number of people remember events, sayings, or images differently than they actually are.www.healthline.com
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