spiritual warfare

bobinfaith

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I read a book about Jim Jones
He was a wolf in sheeps clothin
g...He infiltrated the church, the strange thing is that he got ordained by the Disciples of Christ church, who maybe didn't really check that he was bonafide. Then he started preaching all this strange marxist stuff.
He was in it more for himself, very charismatic, and possibly entertaining. For many people he offered a way out of their previous existence, which many churches didn't actually do at the time - provide food and accomodation. And then he got them to do a lot of work, but this was through his force of personality, rather than anything else.
He also held 'healing' services where he tricked people into coughing up chicken guts and that was said to be their tumors. He had plants in his rallies, and spies to call out people who he would then say they were healed etc. It was all very Barnum and Bailey stuff.

Hi Lanolin;

Jim Jones started off as a pretty good minister but over time his charismatic charm revealed the wolf in him. The ending was tragic.

This is why every minister leading God's church should always be called out for accountability each day, week, month and annually.

Charm, charisma, popularity and lots of talents does not cut it. God wants His servant to shepherd His people against spiritual warfare.
 
I read a book about Jim Jones
He was a wolf in sheeps clothing...He infiltrated the church, the strange thing is that he got ordained by the Disciples of Christ church, who maybe didn't really check that he was bonafide. Then he started preaching all this strange marxist stuff.
He was in it more for himself, very charismatic, and possibly entertaining. For many people he offered a way out of their previous existence, which many churches didn't actually do at the time - provide food and accomodation. And then he got them to do a lot of work, but this was through his force of personality, rather than anything else.
He also held 'healing' services where he tricked people into coughing up chicken guts and that was said to be their tumors. He had plants in his rallies, and spies to call out people who he would then say they were healed etc. It was all very Barnum and Bailey stuff.
dont doubt it
 
Well with new ministers there's the danger...elders are meant to have lived a bit and have a testimony and don't just let young ones pastor a church because they can get puffed up.

I often wonder why churches seem to ordain people straight from a bible college when they haven't even experienced any hardship or had a job or anything before. It seems Jim Jones was ordained when he was only 26 years old by the Independent Assemblies of God, according to wiki.
He was associated with William Branham, who used a lot of razzle-dazzle in his healing services.

Then after a couple of years (7 years later) in 1964 he was ordained by Disciples of Christ. Not sure how they didn't discern anything at the time...
 
Well with new ministers there's the danger...elders are meant to have lived a bit and have a testimony and don't just let young ones pastor a church because they can get puffed up.

I often wonder why churches seem to ordain people straight from a bible college when they haven't even experienced any hardship or had a job or anything before. It seems Jim Jones was ordained when he was only 26 years old by the Independent Assemblies of God, according to wiki.
He was associated with William Branham, who used a lot of razzle-dazzle in his healing services.

Then after a couple of years (7 years later) in 1964 he was ordained by Disciples of Christ. Not sure how they didn't discern anything at the time...
age has very little to do with it age 26 a person should be prepared enough.. preaching being a pastor has to be developed. OJT you study you pray and do your best to be led . sometimes on the outward appearance every thing seems good .
 
age has very little to do with it age 26 a person should be prepared enough.. preaching being a pastor has to be developed. OJT you study you pray and do your best to be led . sometimes on the outward appearance every thing seems good .
no they still very immature, Moses was 40 when God called him...

It does say in the Bible that they must NOT be a novice lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

I'd say Jim Jones at 26 was probably not mature and it is questionable whether he was even baptised. Several denoms had already rejected him as a minister because he didn't fulfill requirements - the Methodists and the Quakers.

Jones was looking for validation though and got it from Branham, Father Divine, and eventually Disciples of Christ. Although the timeline is a bit murky in the Road To Jonestown book.
 
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no they still very immature, Moses was 40 when God called him...

It does say in the Bible that they must NOT be a novice lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

I'd say Jim Jones at 26 was probably not mature and it is questionable whether he was even baptised. Several denoms had already rejected him as a minister because he didn't fulfill requirements - the Methodists and the Quakers.

Jones was looking for validation though and got it from Branham, Father Divine, and eventually Disciples of Christ. Although the timeline is a bit murky in the Road To Jonestown book.
you really are a bit far off whom God calls he qualifies besides the congregation should be mature enough to sustain a young preacher / do think your seasoned ministers are better? yes i remind you they started out young. before ordained we license them for a year .they go around to churches and preach. after that year reexamined. its the anointing that destroys the yoke .not man
 
you really are a bit far off whom God calls he qualifies besides the congregation should be mature enough to sustain a young preacher / do think your seasoned ministers are better? yes i remind you they started out young. before ordained we license them for a year .they go around to churches and preach. after that year reexamined. its the anointing that destroys the yoke .not man
I think a person in their 20s is way too young for a new convert
I don't think God called Jim Jones thats just my opinion..he was pretty self-willed. And he didn't start out young or raised in church either, his dad was an alcoholic and his mother was not a christian either.

I'm just relating this to Jone's case here, where over 900 people died because they listened to his erroneous preaching.
 
I think a person in their 20s is way too young for a new convert
I don't think God called Jim Jones thats just my opinion..he was pretty self-willed. And he didn't start out young or raised in church either, his dad was an alcoholic and his mother was not a christian either.
i can show you preachers in there 20,s who do a good job .as per jones i doubt he was ever called. it takes time to develop a preacher you dont grow just sitting in a pew. we dont ordaine new converts . the presbytery is made uo of deacons and ordained ministers. who examine the person . there is something called discernment .
i came up through school hard knocks preaching where there was a open door . who God calls God qualifies . i have always sit under seasoned preaching . even though i been preaching over 20 years. i still have room to develop.
we are changed from glory to glory
 
Well I was just relating to Jones.
Maybe you could SHOW me 'preachers in their 20s' but I don't know if I ever really listened to any. Most preachers that preached a good word were much older and more seasoned. If people were in their 20s people would have been maybe LOOKING at them but not really listening!

When you are in your 20s your are probably easier on the eye lol.
 

crossnote

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FYI…

Reared a Congregationalist, Spurgeon became a Baptist in 1850 and, the same year, at 16, preached his first sermon. In 1852 he became minister at Waterbeach, Cambridgeshire, and in 1854 minister of New Park Street Chapel in Southwark, London. Within a year a new structure had to be built to accommodate his following, and almost immediately an even larger church was required. From the opening in 1861 of the tabernacle, which held 6,000, until his death, he continued to draw large congregations.
(He went on to be known as the Prince of Preachers)

 
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Well I was just relating to Jones.
Maybe you could SHOW me 'preachers in their 20s' but I don't know if I ever really listened to any. Most preachers that preached a good word were much older and more seasoned. If people were in their 20s people would have been maybe LOOKING at them but not really listening!

When you are in your 20s your are probably easier on the eye lol.
yes i can show you men in 20,s who preached and pastored .. i am not discounting seasoned ministers they are fathers in the Lord and much needed problem is there just not a lot of the gray hairs left, as i call them left . paul had a issue with mark pretty sure on stability . paul and Barnabas went to separate regions. later on in paul writting he said bring mark i find him profitable

2 Timothy 4:9-11 KJV​

9Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me: 10for Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. 11Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.

right at this moment in most every denomination there is a shortage of pastors .. yes i have on my phone a long list of churches needing a pastor.. one church i know has been close to 2 years they had a young preacher till he crossed one of the older members . who admitted in sunday school class . he still liked to watch porn.
the young pastor told him he should step aside from teaching . but since his parents was there elders of the church. nobody would back him. so he resigned .

age is not always the factor in maturity .i have seen grown elder men do in mature things in service
 
Wow 16.
But then, 16 in the victorian era was pretty adult when the mortality rate was so high and life expectancy was what, 40. With Spurgeon, he was raised from birth in the church though, and like Timothy, was taught from a young age by his grandmother.

So I think that counts as opposed to someone who becomes a christian in their teens or twenties and then is preaching a year later!
 

crossnote

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Wow 16.
But then, 16 in the victorian era was pretty adult when the mortality rate was so high and life expectancy was what, 40. With Spurgeon, he was raised from birth in the church though, and like Timothy, was taught from a young age by his grandmother.

So I think that counts as opposed to someone who becomes a christian in their teens or twenties and then is preaching a year later!
Yes preaching at 16 and pastoring at 18 continuing mainly with the same congregation until his death.
Little to do with the Elizabethian era as the grace of God in an individual’s life.
 
Victorian...in victorian times, there was a general awakening in terms of christianity.
The previous eras were pretty rough. Sometimes it depended if the reigning monarch was actually a christian or not, since they were technically meant to be the head of the church of England.

The Victorians were super religious and practically everyone went to church and church building was huge in that era. Spurgeon was part of that. Not saying it was the only thing, but a factor.

Today, not so much, as society has become more secular. And in the US, there is no monarch just presidents, so depending on the faith showed by a president, people then take a lot of direction and policy from their respective leaders. Though having a young president isn't unheard of, they generally aren't younger than 35.
 
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no they still very immature, Moses was 40 when God called him...

It does say in the Bible that they must NOT be a novice lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

I'd say Jim Jones at 26 was probably not mature and it is questionable whether he was even baptised. Several denoms had already rejected him as a minister because he didn't fulfill requirements - the Methodists and the Quakers.

Jones was looking for validation though and got it from Branham, Father Divine, and eventually Disciples of Christ. Although the timeline is a bit murky in the Road To Jonestown book.

David was a teenager!
 
Jesus was teaching at 12.
But his full ministry didn't start until he was 30.
Now if you think it through.....Jesus's "Ministry" began at His birth.

His PUBLIC teaching and preaching was 30 years later.

WHY?

Because Jesus was a Jew.

Among many rules that God gave to Moses was one that those men who works as priests must reach the age of 30. Then only they will be counted as servants of the Lord, and they can serve Lord till the age of 50. Jesus was first born of Mary a Jew, who was presented to the temple as the tradition , and he must serve God of Israelites when they became eligible, till that time they must be learning the laws with the Masters and enter in to public ministry he has to waite until he reach30 y. If one starts before that it will become a violation of law. And he will be counted as a law breaker and will be punished.
 
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