spiritual warfare

Via dolarossa

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I struggle with doctrinal discernment.
I just have not that gift. so naturally, anyone who is explaining a doctrine has to have my trust in his character other wise I would shy away from their teaching/ or explanation.. Their behaviour is always a guide to my trust.

most people on here I tend to trust as I have seen their interaction with others. and its by their interaction, but they sometimes differ in what they believe, so sometimes it dosent work so easily. huh.

is discernment of Spirits not the same as discerning someones character?
 
Are there different types of discernment?
For example, doctrinal discernment as compared to character discernment or discernment of spirits?

Yes sir. Having taught and written on this for many years I can tell you that there are 3 basic Discernments.

1. Natural

A. In MATTHEW 16:1-4 The Pharisees & the Sadducees (who did not believe in life after death) asked Jesus to show them a sign from heaven. He replied:

"You know how to forecast the weather [natural], but you cannot interpret the signs of the times [spiritual]. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.”

The general opinion is that he's John the Baptist come back to life or Elijah or one of the prophets.(Natural).

2. Divine Spiritual Discernment

B. In verse 15 Peter under the unction of the Holy Spirit blurts out:

"You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God."

Jesus confirms the divine origin of this outburst by saying the Father had given Peter this knowledge. (Divine guidense)

3. Demonic Discernment

C. Peter, who only moments earlier had been under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, finds himself earning the sternest rebuke Jesus gave to any of his disciples when Peter says he will not let Jesus be executed.

This brings the rejoinder from Jesus:

"Get behind me, satan! You're a stumbling block to me; you're not thinking God's (supernatural) thoughts but only of human (natural) concerns."

As usual Peter meant well but he was speaking out of his soul rather than his spirit. (Demonic influence).

IMHO, one of the most deceptive things taking place today in the Christian world is the need for "Signs and Wonders and Miracles".

Jesus' Warning Against The Deception Of Seeking Signs & Wonders​

Jesus called the desire for spectacular signs and wonders "wickedness and spiritual adultery" and went on to say the only sign he would give such people would be "the Sign of Jonah".

In Matthew 12:38-40 Jesus said...............
"Just as Jonah the prophet was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

In other words Jesus was saying that his death and resurrection after three days was the only miracle we need to know he is the Messiah, God's Son & Saviour of the World.
 
I struggle with doctrinal discernment.
I just have not that gift. so naturally, anyone who is explaining a doctrine has to have my trust in his character other wise I would shy away from their teaching/ or explanation.. Their behaviour is always a guide to my trust.

most people on here I tend to trust as I have seen their interaction with others. and its by their interaction, but they sometimes differ in what they believe, so sometimes it dosent work so easily. huh.

is discernment of Spirits not the same as discerning someones character?

I understand you.

However......that may just be the easiest of all discernments.

WHY????

Read the Bible and accept what it says......"Literally"!

If the Bible says that there will be pain and suffering in hell......then that is exactly what it will have.
If the Bible says that we are saved once and forever.......then that is exactly what it means.

Via.......the problem comes when we pay attention to what some person "TELLS" us the Bible meant to say. Believe what God said and you will be in good hands............kind of like Allstate Insurance but better!
 
I’m not too sure about that, with my wife and I, she is very keen at picking out shyster like characters while I sit there like a dunce; yet she can sometimes fall easy prey to false teachings (not that I am pure in this matter) and usually have to help her out in that area.

We all tend t fall pray to someone who has the gift of saying what we want to hear in a comforting presentation. It sounds good, I like what he is saying.

But.........no matter what a man says, if it is not what God said then it is wrong.
 
Yes sir. Having taught and written on this for many years I can tell you that there are 3 basic Discernments.

1. Natural

A. In MATTHEW 16:1-4 The Pharisees & the Sadducees (who did not believe in life after death) asked Jesus to show them a sign from heaven. He replied:

"You know how to forecast the weather [natural], but you cannot interpret the signs of the times [spiritual]. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.”

The general opinion is that he's John the Baptist come back to life or Elijah or one of the prophets.(Natural).

2. Divine Spiritual Discernment

B. In verse 15 Peter under the unction of the Holy Spirit blurts out:

"You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God."

Jesus confirms the divine origin of this outburst by saying the Father had given Peter this knowledge. (Divine guidense)

3. Demonic Discernment

C. Peter, who only moments earlier had been under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, finds himself earning the sternest rebuke Jesus gave to any of his disciples when Peter says he will not let Jesus be executed.

This brings the rejoinder from Jesus:

"Get behind me, satan! You're a stumbling block to me; you're not thinking God's (supernatural) thoughts but only of human (natural) concerns."

As usual Peter meant well but he was speaking out of his soul rather than his spirit. (Demonic influence).

IMHO, one of the most deceptive things taking place today in the Christian world is the need for "Signs and Wonders and Miracles".

Jesus' Warning Against The Deception Of Seeking Signs & Wonders​

Jesus called the desire for spectacular signs and wonders "wickedness and spiritual adultery" and went on to say the only sign he would give such people would be "the Sign of Jonah".

In Matthew 12:38-40 Jesus said...............
"Just as Jonah the prophet was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

In other words Jesus was saying that his death and resurrection after three days was the only miracle we need to know he is the Messiah, God's Son & Saviour of the World.
Just like to make note that in the Matthew 16:1-4 example above that the Pharisees did believe in the Resurrection and the afterlife.
Acts 23:8,
New International Version
(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)


Just my 5cents (due to inflation!)
 

bobinfaith

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I struggle with doctrinal discernment. I just have not that gift. so naturally, anyone who is explaining a doctrine has to have my trust in his character other wise I would shy away from their teaching/ or explanation.. Their behaviour is always a guide to my trust. most people on here I tend to trust as I have seen their interaction with others. and its by their interaction, but they sometimes differ in what they believe, so sometimes it dosent work so easily. huh.
is discernment of Spirits not the same as discerning someones character?

I understand you.
However......that may just be the easiest of all discernments.
WHY???? Read the Bible and accept what it says......"Literally"! If the Bible says that there will be pain and suffering in hell......then that is exactly what it will have. If the Bible says that we are saved once and forever.......then that is exactly what it means. Via.......the problem comes when we pay attention to what some person "TELLS" us the Bible meant to say. Believe what God said and you will be in good hands............kind of like Allstate Insurance but better!

Hello Via;

In Matthew 10:16, Jesus commissions us to become "wise as serpents and harmless as doves" meaning that we must develop discernment, to "discern" motivation of our decisions, of others and the Holy Spirit that prompts and guide us.

To piggy back what
Major shared, keep doing what you have been doing in your personal growth in Christ. Read your Bible and pray consistently each day. As you learn, the discernment will take place in you, however, it's a growing process.

Keep an open heart to the theologians and teachers like some of the seasoned members here, but always rely on God's Word
which is consistent, along with your prayers (questions and arguments) to Him as the final true authority.

I hope this helps you, sister.
 
I’m not too sure about that, w ith my wife and I, she is very keen at picking out shyster like characters while I sit there like a dunce; yet she can sometimes fall easy prey to false teachings (not that I am pure in this matter) and usually have to help her out in that area.
its still discernment ==the Holy spirit telling us things . some are gifted heavy in this area the unction is the indwelling of the holy spirit in us. thus why i say imo no to different discernments .on false teaching a person has to know the what e the Bible says . i more or less debated some j.w once thinking i will throw every thing at them be done wrong wrong . i soon realized i was dealing with a different spirit . they are trained real heavy for opposition. the devil can transform himself into a angel of light. i have read things on forums one in another a lady claimed there was no HELL . used twisted scripture to back it up. i am by far no expert think of this how could a man like jim jones convince people to drink posion Kool-Aid ?
 

Ephesians 4:14​


“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;” there is far to much people pleasing ear tickling going on in the name of the church.
people needs to stop following the crowds follow the cloud .

its been a while i like to listen to john MacArthur but areas i will not agree with him on. not many t.v preachers i like. i respect David Jeremiah i respect Charles Stanley and James Merritt. i have listened to them and the words they preach line up with scripture . the osas doctrine the preach i see some parts different .but that does not make them false teachers. the more i read and look things up the more i find i need to learn .
 
We all tend t fall pray to someone who has the gift of saying what we want to hear in a comforting presentation. It sounds good, I like what he is saying.

But.........no matter what a man says, if it is not what God said then it is wrong.
Isiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”
 

crossnote

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its still discernment ==the Holy spirit telling us things . some are gifted heavy in this area the unction is the indwelling of the holy spirit in us. thus why i say imo no to different discernments .on false teaching a person has to know the what e the Bible says . i more or less debated some j.w once thinking i will throw every thing at them be done wrong wrong . i soon realized i was dealing with a different spirit . they are trained real heavy for opposition. the devil can transform himself into a angel of light. i have read things on forums one in another a lady claimed there was no HELL . used twisted scripture to back it up. i am by far no expert think of this how could a man like jim jones convince people to drink posion Kool-Aid ?
Ok, you gave me a few instances of doctrinal discernment, can you give me an instance of character discernment showing there is no difference between the two?
 
can you give me an instance of character discernment showing there is no difference between the two?
far as i am concerned they all tie into together . a person soon learns character discernment sometimes it take a little bit to figure out. we all struggle with this.. most of it comes from school hard knocks. i work with a 22 year old young man and i can tell by talking to him. he does not have a clue period about life. he talks about being with other woman .he brags about some funky name weed/pot he smoked.. i came from that back ground and yes i loved to smoke weed. his stories are far fetched so after a period of time dealing with people you get a good idea something does not compute . it says that we may know all things

1 John 2:20​


“But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.”

personally i fail to see a difference . can i be wrong ? possible imo God wants us to know character also.. growing up our parents had discernment on our friends we hung out with . Mom more than dads although men just dont trust mom is willing give the benefit of doubt. wanting to find good knowing most likely there is not good. that help?
 
can you give me an instance of character discernment showing there is no difference between the two?
far as i am concerned they all tie into together . a person soon learns character discernment sometimes it take a little bit to figure out. we all struggle with this.. most of it comes from school hard knocks. i work with a 22 year old young man and i can tell by talking to him. he does not have a clue period about life. he talks about being with other woman .he brags about some funky name marijunia he smoked.. i came from that back ground and yes i loved to smoke weed. his stories are far fetched so after a period of time dealing with people you get a good idea something does not compute . it says that we may know all things
 
Ok, you gave me a few instances of doctrinal discernment, can you give me an instance of character discernment showing there is no difference between the two?

You did not ask me but in Romans 8:5 I hink that Paul is speaking to that question when he says,........
"Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit."

"Character discernment" is simply the ability to find relationships that are good for you, and to avoid those that are not.

The apostle Paul said in Galatians 5:7.......
“You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?”

Notice he said who, not what. Again, to repeat Romans 8:5 Paul says.....
“Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.”

When some people come into your life, they don’t just bring their bodies—they bring their spirits. There are two kinds of people:....
1. “flesh people” and
2. “faith people.”

Flesh people tear you down and feed your fears, while faith people build you up and feed your faith. Flesh people waste your time and drain your energy. Often, Christians find themselves in confusing relationships that drain them of their emotional energy and greatly reduce their effectiveness. Think of the personal pain that could be prevented if we knew how to avoid unhealthy relationships.

Now......I am not saying that "flesh" are bad people; I am just saying that they just might don’t belong in your inner circle. It also doesn’t mean that you should shun such people; God wants us to love all those we come into contact with. But we have to make sure that we are surrounding ourselves with more people who fill our lives than drain our lives. One of the first warning signs of spiritual failure is when we begin to isolate ourselves from Christian friends and from the house of God.

Faith people are the kind of people who fill your life. They draw you closer to being the person God created you to be. They are the ones who will be lovingly honest with you. They are strong when you are weak.

THAT in my opinion is "Character Discernment".
 
Those that bring false doctrine would also not be good for you, correct?
exactly that is why we must never compromise the Church. so often they will bring someone in because they are nice. but yet in teaching they are way out there. paul wrote a little Leaven leavens the whole loaf. some children one day asked mom if they could go to a r rated movie with there friends .the excuse every one goes .. the mom said on one condition if you will eat the gourmet brownies i fix. it will have one special ingredient .... Dog poop . i will search net see if i can find full story instead of chopping it up . needless say kids stayed home. even bad company is not wholesome for us .
 

crossnote

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exactly that is why we must never compromise the Church. so often they will bring someone in because they are nice. but yet in teaching they are way out there. paul wrote a little Leaven leavens the whole loaf. some children one day asked mom if they could go to a r rated movie with there friends .the excuse every one goes .. the mom said on one condition if you will eat the gourmet brownies i fix. it will have one special ingredient .... Dog poop . i will search net see if i can find full story instead of chopping it up . needless say kids stayed home. even bad company is not wholesome for us .
i guess evil can manifest itself first in words, then in actions.
 
guess evil can manifest itself first in words, then in actions.
i say it this way Christians plants seeds one plant one waters God gives increase. the devil has a way of planting seeds himself.. proverbs says Guard (keep ) your heart with all diligence for out of it is the issues of life. think how the devil got to eve.in 3 words Did God say orrrrrrr . not going to but i can give you many instances that i had shake my self from a thought or seeing something . some things i have guard heavy visual words thoughts. one i battle a lot last year i hit deer .my auto policy rented me a car. somehow a underskirt got a rip in it,, when i was at rental the so called manager flipped out. took 500.00 out of my account :eek:.

after telling her i dont see how i had been no where but highway driving.. i went out got on the ground inspect my self touched it.. she flipped out.. my anger rose up we locked horns . she took my car rental throwed me out of the office threatened call law.. to this day it still comes back to me ..my thoughts blow the building up with her in it... i wouldn't not my nature nor is it Christ like . my old nature would cussed her out left her standing with her mouth open
 
I read a book about Jim Jones
He was a wolf in sheeps clothing...He infiltrated the church, the strange thing is that he got ordained by the Disciples of Christ church, who maybe didn't really check that he was bonafide. Then he started preaching all this strange marxist stuff.
He was in it more for himself, very charismatic, and possibly entertaining. For many people he offered a way out of their previous existence, which many churches didn't actually do at the time - provide food and accomodation. And then he got them to do a lot of work, but this was through his force of personality, rather than anything else.
He also held 'healing' services where he tricked people into coughing up chicken guts and that was said to be their tumors. He had plants in his rallies, and spies to call out people who he would then say they were healed etc. It was all very Barnum and Bailey stuff.
 
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