Star of David?

Lanolin said:
oh ok. I don't get catholicism it just seems extra on top of everything else. Following God, reading the Bible, fellowship, Lord's supper, doing the two commandments..that's enough for me.
when people talk about the Pope I got no idea cos I don't follow the pope. Besides the nearest catholic church to me is miles away. Actually the nearest church to me is a mormon church. I don't go there. Just where the Lord leads me, and so far he's told me to stay away from the trappings of catholicism. There are catholic schools not far from me but..they never mixed with public school children. It seemed like they snobbed anyone who wasn't catholic. And I know many ex-catholics. So...it just seems a bit strange to me, how there's a distinction. They just different I suppose.

I attended this church that was really into Israel for some reason. I don't go there anymore cos of other reasons but I just found it a bit strange too. Supporting Israel etc, I mean, yes, but no Israelis ever tried to be friends with christians, unless they messianic Jews, but that means they converted. They snub us. Jewish people tend to keep to themselves, and when anyone points out that MAYBE they not doing something right according to the bible they accuse us of being anti-semitic. I just don't get that.

We pray for them and love them from afar, but they get so paranoid that us christians hate them. Also they separate themselves from us calling us gentiles but more derogatory. Its no small thing to be chosen and have that special convenant with God but we just saying we have a new, better covenant and that Jesus loves sheep not of his fold as well, and they get annoyed. That's the impression I get anyway.
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With all due respect, if you don't know these groups like you said, how can you judge them as so? The best I can do is judge what I know and speak in regards to the individuals I've had contact with.

In speaking with Israelis and Jews, many of them (whether secular, conservative, or even orthodox) have offered and given their friendship to Christians. I won't even use myself as an example since I am half-Jewish.
 
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Lanolin said:
...that us christians hate them. QUOTE]
I do not see any reason for us to hate Jewish people, in fact I do not do that, plus I tend to not want to hate anyone. The bible also says He will bless anyone who blesses the nation of Israel and same for the negative side.
Hate is void of love - so cannot be from God, we must guard ourselves in this. Remember the power of the tongue - also what defiles you but that which comes from the mouth.
We should advocate love only.
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The judgement seems to come from them snubbing and avoidant behaviour. Eg went to a jerusalem group thing and an Israeli rally...but the Jewish pll seemed aloof and not really engaging with christians, only to debate. Now I understand arguing a big part of their culture, but it seem they want to needle christians all the time. From my experience.
My PM also Jewish...background, and he while smiling and definitely personable, only cares for his own..eg those that got rich, since he made his fortune in a questionable manner. I.e. He did not make an honest living. Many others say theres this ruthless side to him. We pray for him anyway. Even though the laws he supports are no good for our country.
As for catholics. I have one good catholic friend but sometimes there can be times when we def not on the same page cos she believed something else and theres always that family obligation to the church that seems to hinder her walk. I dont know if its cultural or its actually bound up with her church beliefs but i do notice the difference from my other friends. It is like this stronghold..and HER friends I notice snubbed me def cos Im not catholic as they are and not 'family' they did say anyone who wasnt was foreigner. Her relationship broke up cos her boyfriend was not catholic. Well he was hindu but I wonder if she met a christian guy who wasnt catholic how that would work. Her friends def said that any marital partner HAD to belong to their specific church or convert on the spot.

Anyway, so what I say has been from my own experience and it does not make me comfortable but there are reasons to it.
 
I once with another friend tried to visit a synagogue but we got there late and werent allowed in, they had security guard there...and wanted to charge us ten bucks just to see the synagogue. When I asked if could come to a sabbath service she said no, its in hebrew not a good idea...you had to book tours but we just wanted to see inside. Churches dont charge anything you can just go in.
Anyway my impression of Jewish ppl not really friendly. It could change but so far...no. Only those that are messianic embrace christians. I think its because im a christian and not Jewish I get the feeling they dont like me.
 
Like I could start talking about Jesus and preaching and then they would just run away or pretend to listen...but Im not like that. Im not one of those hard core evangelists that cant even talk to ppl without mentioning Jesus.
 
I see - sorry for those experiences.
We have a proper Scotsman in our church - still has that deep routed accent and the lot.
He often visits the Jewish community in the area, and from what I see, he is heartily received. I am glad for that, for much in the past and in the future is routed in that nation. One can only feel for them for what is still on the roll to happen.
 
I believe the Jewish people in Israel are under such attack from all sides they have taken a "bunker"mentality. I can't really blame them. They fear christians only want to convert them and everyone else wants to kill them. All you can do is just keep reassuring them you are on their side and let your example be your witness.
 
Lanolin said:
The judgement seems to come from them snubbing and avoidant behaviour. Eg went to a jerusalem group thing and an Israeli rally...but the Jewish pll seemed aloof and not really engaging with christians, only to debate. Now I understand arguing a big part of their culture, but it seem they want to needle christians all the time. From my experience.
My PM also Jewish...background, and he while smiling and definitely personable, only cares for his own..eg those that got rich, since he made his fortune in a questionable manner. I.e. He did not make an honest living. Many others say theres this ruthless side to him. We pray for him anyway. Even though the laws he supports are no good for our country.
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I understand if you're going by your personal experience, but your own personal experience doesn't speak for every experience or an entire group. I've been mugged four times in my life, and every time it happened, it was by someone who was black...but I'm not prepared to say only muggers are black or that black people only want to mug you. That would be too unfair and reduce people to a stereotype we've either made up in our minds or fell for.

Lanolin said:
As for catholics. I have one good catholic friend but sometimes there can be times when we def not on the same page cos she believed something else and theres always that family obligation to the church that seems to hinder her walk.
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For many people, not just Catholics, their walk with Christ means their loyalty to their activity in their church. For instance, my brother who is a Calvary Chapel member, leads Sunday school for kids 6-10. He has had to cancel plans because his responsibility to leading that Sunday school is an extension of his walk with Christ. He wants to ensure that nothing falls flat so that these kids can get an education on the faith.

With Catholics, whether it is going to Church on a special feast day, or wanting to go to confession regularly, or daily mass, or Bible study, this is because of our walk with Christ, not despite it. I don't know your friend, so maybe I've misunderstood, but just in case I understood correctly, as Christians, we all recognize our responsibilities in ensuring we make our faith active.

Lanolin said:
I dont know if its cultural or its actually bound up with her church beliefs but i do notice the difference from my other friends. It is like this stronghold..and HER friends I notice snubbed me def cos Im not catholic as they are and not 'family' they did say anyone who wasnt was foreigner.
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I don't know the context of this, but if it is what it is exactly as it was presented, then this is people being rude. Their being Catholic can't be blamed for it. Rude non-denominational Christians doesn't mean that because they are non-denominational that they are rude. It just means that these are rude people who happen to also be non-denominational.

Lanolin said:
Her relationship broke up cos her boyfriend was not catholic. Well he was hindu but I wonder if she met a christian guy who wasnt catholic how that would work.
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Breaking up with someone because they are an entirely different faith is a good reason to end a relationship. Comparing a relationship between a Catholic Christian and a Hindu versus a Catholic Christian and a Protestant Christian is comparing apples to oranges.

Lanolin said:
Her friends def said that any marital partner HAD to belong to their specific church or convert on the spot.
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That's not entirely wrong either. We all have our criteria for a marriage. While some couples don't mind going outside of their own denominations, some feel strongly that they should stick within their own denominations and Churches -- and that is absolutely reasonable. I wouldn't blame a Methodist for only wanting to marry another Methodist.

Lanolin said:
Anyway, so what I say has been from my own experience and it does not make me comfortable but there are reasons to it.
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That's understandable. We all do have certain experiences that have left salty tastes in our mouths. It happens. We should just try to understand that while we've had experiences, we want to be sure to look at the whole picture and try to find the things we haven't yet experienced either before we come to a final conclusion.
 
Well, so far my impression of catholicism isnt very good as many i seem to meet are ex catholics. Or if they are catholic its like some other country they belong to. I find it intersting form a cultural standpoint and LOVE they always aware of Jesus and constantly talking about him but its just the extra church criteria i find hard to take. Stuff like confession and making up things to confess. I mean??? Thats a bit crazy. But catholics admit they do this (not to their priest). I suppose it an be boring sitting in a box with ppl telling you they been good..got to make up something juicy i suppose. (They children here).

I just take that as their church training them. But it seems very prescribed.
 
Lanolin said:
I once with another friend tried to visit a synagogue but we got there late and werent allowed in, they had security guard there...and wanted to charge us ten bucks just to see the synagogue. When I asked if could come to a sabbath service she said no, its in hebrew not a good idea...you had to book tours but we just wanted to see inside. Churches dont charge anything you can just go in.
Anyway my impression of Jewish ppl not really friendly. It could change but so far...no. Only those that are messianic embrace christians. I think its because im a christian and not Jewish I get the feeling they dont like me.
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Is it possible that this synagogue was a venue that you weren't even aware of? Sometimes, synagogues also act as venues. For instance, there's a large synagogue in my neighborhood that often has non-Jewish shows, like stand-up or musical performances. It's called the 6th and I synagogue. I've actually been there to a couple of performances.

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It's not too common, but sometimes you'll find synagogues that do this.
 
Well i never said my experience was everyones experience. If you had a good one then great.

Going back to topic. i dont suppose I will understand it fully but im sure the star of david is like some kind of protective symbol. I know a bit about occult symbols as before was a christian was interested in that kind of stuff, like reiki. Whenever a symbol is drawn, it has a certain power. This is not of God cos God doesnt require us to use symbols, just to call on His name.
 
No..this was a working synagogue. It was the main one in town.
I also been to cathedrals that do host shows and entertainment, but they never charged for a visit either, just to see inside.

However the other day was walking in town went past this old historic synagogue that is now a bank. I may go back there to see inside and sure they wont charge me just to have a look. With the main synagogue we could not even get in the door. I did want to see the Torah in their ark as was curious to see what one really looked like. But no go. maybe they think its just too precious for ordinary gentiles to see?
 
Lanolin said:
Well, so far my impression of catholicism isnt very good as many i seem to meet are ex catholics. Or if they are catholic its like some other country they belong to. I find it intersting form a cultural standpoint and LOVE they always aware of Jesus and constantly talking about him but its just the extra church criteria i find hard to take. Stuff like confession and making up things to confess. I mean??? Thats a bit crazy. But catholics admit they do this (not to their priest). I suppose it an be boring sitting in a box with ppl telling you they been good..got to make up something juicy i suppose. (They children here).

I just take that as their church training them. But it seems very prescribed.
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To begin, I agree that making things up to confess isn't just crazy, it's also a sin itself because it's a blatant lie within a sacrament. I don't think that's very common. I've never met anyone who even admits to it. The point is to confess what you know you've done wrong -- it doesn't matter whether they are juicy sins or boring sins. The point of confession is to be humble, recognize that you need Christ, and ask forgiveness because you've offended him through your sins. The more official title of this sacrament isn't confession --it's actually Reconciliation because you are reconciling your relationship with Him. The penance isn't a punishment (like some think it is), it's actually a way of transitioning your divide from God to being united with Him again.

I'll try to avoid getting into the discussion of what is "extra" versus what has been "removed" since you and I will disagree on that just for the sake of not making this another "Catholic versus Protestant" thread. We've had too many of those. But there is definitely nothing wrong with Confession. It isn't an explicitly Catholic thing since other Churches do it too. It can be difficult because it means actually sitting down and thinking about those things you wish you hadn't done and then actually saying it out loud. But the beauty of it is God's forgiveness and mercy. That's why it isn't a yucky sort of thing to do...it's actually a very beautiful sacrament because it is the prodigal son returning home.
 
The interesting thing about that cathderal visit was I wanted to see if they had any bibles but they had not even one. they had prayer books but not actually the Holy Bible. this was an anglican cathedral. Some Anglican churches really old interesting buildings. But also, this cathedral was modern. I dont really get cathedrals as not in the Bible.

I like to visit old church buildings. For the history I suppose. some of them in their quiet places, you can find the presence of God there. I suppose cos they been sanctified. Others are just plain buildings. There isnt anything there that would make you go, oh this is a place where christians worship and gather.
 
No, I agree with confession thats something we ought to do everyday, its just that ppl who arent catholic dont need to go to a catholic church and to see a priest. We go to Jesus. But the principle is the same I guess. Its a good thing, best thing about going to Jesus, he not gonna be angry, judge you, or say repeat after me. His methods are unique to each situation.

Those that arent in the habit of regular confession i suppose are not in that relationship with God. Personally i would feel not comfortable going to a catholic priest as not catholic, but I suppose catholics know who their priests are and can trust them. The bible says confess your faults one to another, so you may be healed.

Idea...can we have a confession part of the forum?
 
Lanolin said:
No..this was a working synagogue. It was the main one in town.
I also been to cathedrals that do host shows and entertainment, but they never charged for a visit either, just to see inside.

However the other day was walking in town went past this old historic synagogue that is now a bank. I may go back there to see inside and sure they wont charge me just to have a look. With the main synagogue we could not even get in the door. I did want to see the Torah in their ark as was curious to see what one really looked like. But no go. maybe they think its just too precious for ordinary gentiles to see?
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Yep, I understand. I still don't know the scenario with the synagogue. However, just like in church, Jewish temples also have their etiquette, which is pretty similar to Christian church etiquette.

Sometimes people may go into very beautiful temples or church buildings and think that because there is beautiful artwork and architecture that people are free to roam around like it is a museum. Many of these places do offer tours, but the tours don't take place during mass or services. Not long ago, when I was at daily mass, two women were wandering around the church sanctuary while mass was being held. And while the priest was performing the mass, the two woman began speaking with him as if he would stop what he was doing and start giving them directions. While some churches may do this, this won't be found in others because of a specific prayer or ceremony taking place.

Or, the scenario you gave where you felt perhaps you couldn't check something out because it was too precious for gentiles...this is something I may be able to also understand. I won't get too deep into that though because I'd hate for this to veer off too much.
 
Lanolin said:
No, I agree with confession thats something we ought to do everyday, its just that ppl who arent catholic dont need to go to a catholic church and to see a priest. We go to Jesus. But the principle is the same I guess. Its a good thing, best thing about going to Jesus, he not gonna be angry, judge you, or say repeat after me. His methods are unique to each situation.

Those that arent in the habit of regular confession i suppose are not in that relationship with God. Personally i would feel not comfortable going to a catholic priest as not catholic, but I suppose catholics know who their priests are and can trust them. The bible says confess your faults one to another, so you may be healed.

Idea...can we have a confession part of the forum?
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This is our belief as well. When we go to confession, we are going to Christ -- the priest is there in persona Cristi (meaning in person of Christ).

Some people do feel more comfortable going to their own parish for confession because they know their priests. Others avoid their own parish out of fear that the priest may know them and they want to keep their confession anonymous from the priest (since we don't ask for the priest's forgiveness). However, people are also free to speak to the priest face-to-face, whether they know each other or not. Either way, it doesn't make the confession any more or less valid.

I suspect we can have a confession thread -- but we have done it in the past. I'm not opposed to it provided it is done with respect and devoid of any false assumptions of anyone. I'd hate for people to either say "Protestants don't care about asking God for forgiveness" anymore than I'd want to see "Catholics believe in going to a priest and skipping God." Both would be false. Protestants care deeply about asking God for forgiveness just as Catholics believe explicitly that confessing sins means taking them to God.
 
Well, confessing our sins one to another...it will be in His presence wont it cos when two or three gather in His name he is there? Wont this bring about healing, as long as nobody is judging anybody else for whatever is being confessed? The act of confessing is very good for the soul.

Sometimes you just have to get things off your chest and be real with God. If it is in a safe place, where there are no repurcusions cos the confessee knows in him or herself what she or he did was wrong...and desires to put it right.

The peace of God which passeth all understanding then can be yours cos theres nothing he cannot forgive if we are repentant (except for the unforgiveable sin) but then..no true christians can ever be guilty of the unforgivable sin because those that commit this would not confess they wrong about it in the first place.
 
I forget, actually I have been to some catholic churches or cathedrals. The Notre Dame in Paris. However that has become very touristy. I have also been to the sacre couer basilica but wasnt sure if that was actually a place of worship just outside. I would only go if the place was welcome to visitors.
Me and my friend did book to see this synagogue as they said online they had tours. But they suggested 10 bucks donation, which was a bit too much for us.
I would never just wander in a church if a ceremony was taking place and not take part in that ceremony. It is ok to visit different churches, often chat with the pastor or secretary there and find a place to pray. It doesnt matter what denom. Except the only thing i wont go to is mormon churches, JWs or any non christian temple building. Like mosques and hindu temples, only if invited. I have been in a buddhist temple as an uncle who is buddhist invited us. But I would not go if nobody invited me.
I think I have wandered into different places of worship before like mosques and temples and shrines as a tourist..but that was before I was christian I would stay away from those places now.
the only thing is I think its ok to at least see what a synagogue looks like esp since Jesus was jewish I just was wanting to see what he grew up with, as the traditions still carry on to this day. Even though christians got chucked out of synagogues cos of persecution.
 
Lanolin said:
Well, confessing our sins one to another...it will be in His presence wont it cos when two or three gather in His name he is there? Wont this bring about healing, as long as nobody is judging anybody else for whatever is being confessed? The act of confessing is very good for the soul.

Sometimes you just have to get things off your chest and be real with God. If it is in a safe place, where there are no repurcusions cos the confessee knows in him or herself what she or he did was wrong...and desires to put it right.
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Very well put. I think you put it perfectly. When it comes to confessing, the priest (in this case anyway) is bound by his vows to not only keep the confession to himself, but to even forget it just as God forgets the sins which he has forgiven. It's called the Seal of Confession. Those who do not and tell someone else is breaking a vow and is automatically excommunicated -- and when that happens, only the pope has authority to lift that excommunication. That's how important the Seal of Confession is.

There have been State appeals that have tried to make it so that priests would be forced by law to break this seal and testify. However, each appeal has been dropped because it is a violation of religious freedoms. This means if a priest hears a very serious crime from a penitent, it is likely that the priest will tell him that he needs to go and make reparations for it (which could mean turning himself in to the police), but forgiveness is still also offered to those who genuinely ask for it and are truly sorry. However, even after hearing these crimes, the priest is not obligated to come forward and testify. He is, however, obligated to not tell a single soul. This is intended to remain between the penitent and God.
 
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