Struggling with a question

There will always be differing perspectives, though discussing communion wine is tending to go off topic.
AS long as Ribena is not used I don't have a problem.
Though the idea of Grape juice as 'new wine' for a new covenant does have some appeal.
Kosha wine is alcoholic...just thought I'd throw that in.:)
 
So I guess most all agree to be a drunkard is a sin and the OP asks "Is it wrong to drink alcoholic beverages?"
People do it in the Bible and in a few places it is with the grace of God but in most places it leads to problems. So IMO it is best to be avoided accept in certain celebrations and in moderation, with thanksgiving. But another issue is conscience!

If not accepted and drank as a matter faith, then it would be sin for you. If you have some wine with dinner or have a beer or two at a wedding, or even after a tough day at work...if you drink with a guilty conscience don't do it. The Bible says blessed is the man that approves of the thing that he does! But be careful not to cause another weaker brother or sister to stumble. They may not have a conscience that supports doing this, or may not have the ability to resist getting smashed.

Consider how conscience plays a role! Also I fond nowhere that "strong drink" (Whiskey's, Vodkas, Rum, etc) is spoken of as a good thing...

In His love

Paul
 
This is the subject of disagreement from many different sides. Granted some specific Christian groups hold pretty clear positions on it: Methodists and Anabaptists see it as "poison" (to quote John Wesley). Catholics and Lutherans see it as something that can be enjoyed, but even as an item used sacramentally.

Excess of anything can easily be bad. It's obvious that alcohol in excess is, not just because you're putting so much energy into one thing than something more important, but because it can do serious harm to yourself and judgment.

But even if someone loves alcohol more than something he should love -- even if he isn't getting drunk -- his love for it isn't in any way healthy.

Alcohol, I believe, is really a neutral item. It isn't good in itself or bad in itself. It is, like food, something that can be used for good or for bad.

It seems most people here side with that.
 
I also believe alcohol is neutral, although the Bible says abundant wine is a sign of God's blessing (Genesis 27:28, Deuteronomy 7:13, Psalm 104:14-15, Amos 9:13-14, Joel 3:18, Zechariah 9:17).

I don't drink, however. I don't feel any need or desire for it, and I don't know if I would be able to control myself if I did drink. I don't want to set up a stumbling block, for myself or others - especially my wife who stopped drinking over 20 years ago. She doesn't believe there's anything wrong with alcohol either, but she can't handle it herself. We have no problem with others imbibing in moderation.
 
Nobody today drinks alcohol to purely quench their thirst. Only one drink is needed to make some drunk.

But drinking is not the evil. The evil is the debauchery that follows / tacit approval of the unsaved debauchery by drinking with them / yourself losing control.

I do believe God expects us to have a drink or two with the unsaved if we are trying to witness to them in a bar. We just need to know when to leave.
 
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Jahida said:
For some time now I have been struggling with a question. Is it wrong to drink alcoholic beverages? I know drunkenness is a sin but what if you have 1 here and there or a few everyday but do not get drunk? I have asked other fellow Christians that are in my life and some agree it's ok and others don't. Some have even told me Christ turned water into wine so of course it's ok to drink....

How do I find the answer to this question in the bible?
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There are a lot of folks out there who get mixed up with legalism.... The "Why" behind it is pretty easy for other people to measure.... and they like being able to tell other people what to do instead of focusing their efforts on themselves....

Ironically, what happens here is that the intense focus on the Legalism ends up pushing folks to simply hide, LIE and NOT deal with overcoming because of the shame heaped upon them by the do-gooders.... which actually leaves them in a WORSE condition... If they open up about their real struggles - they are condemned and scandalized......

God, on the other hand, deals with the heart. If you look at how Jesus defined sin - it's anything that separates you from God.... Paul is likewise helpful - for example Romans 13:13
Notice how there are 3 categories of pairs - Revelry and drunkenness, lewdness and lust, strife and envy.....

These 3 pairs correspond to how we try to fill the "Hole" in our beings with things outside of God....
For example -
Strife and Envy is how we fill our Mind... It's the intellect that wants fill itself up so that it can feel superior to others.....
Lewdness and lust is how we fill our Soul - our Emotion... It fills the need for true intimacy and love (agape) with sex.
Revelry and drunkenness is how we fill our Volition - our strength and willpower.....

Not all people are buffeted by all 3 of these... Frequently, there is ONE aspect that the individual Christian really struggles with... Some people really struggle with superiority complexes or hatred of others, other people struggle with sexual sin, and the list goes on... but what it corresponds to is the places where we are holding back dominion from God - your mind, your emotion/soul, your volition/strength.

So... Is it OK to have a drink? Well - if you struggle with revelry and drunkenness - NO... It's not because it's your excuse to slide right back into it.... If you don't struggle with it - and you won't tempt your friend who does by doing it - it's fine because you aren't separating yourself from God by the drink....

Thanks
 
Jesus made wine as his first miracle, so drinking alcohol is not bad. As Mark Lowry says, "I love that Jesus' first miracle was just to keep the party going!"
Seriously, the good or bad comes down to what purpose you are using (or abusing) it for.
 
When I have a cold I'll have a shot of 43 to burn up the junk. But it's totally medicine to me. Other than speeding up recovery, I take no pleasure in alcohol.
 
KingJ said:
Nobody today drinks alcohol to purely quench their thirst. Only one drink is needed to make some drunk.

But drinking is not the evil. The evil is the debauchery that follows / tacit approval of the unsaved debauchery by drinking with them / yourself losing control.

I do believe God expects us to have a drink or two with the unsaved if we are trying to witness to them in a bar. We just need to know when to leave.
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I'd say that is a very good point KingJ.
 
Psa 104:14. You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth
Psa 104:15. and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man's heart.
We must each find our own individual way of handling alcohol.
 
Jahida said:
I've noticed this is not a yes or no answer but I like what you said about...."whatever we do must be for the glory of the Lord"
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Ravindran Gave the answer, it's always the answer to all these questions.
Ravindran said:
And it's Biblical

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God
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There is no other answer but this Answer.

Anything that is not of faith, it is sin.

You should never, never, never, never violate your conscience. 30 some scriptures talk about Conscience and it's your key to hearing God clearly.

When you don't have faith to do something, like drinking a glass of wine, Then asking if it's OK or not is the path of fools. This is how the enemy operates, to Question...... question........... question..............

Did God really say, that you should die the day you eat that fruit....... Surely God did not say that, right Eve?

This is how millions of believers get off track, and down the road to messing up their life big time.

They question, not knowing if it's good or not. They know they should not, because they could, if it did not come up as a question that makes them pause.

So, they ask other people just as clueless as themselves..............

Yea, Jesus turned Water to wine, and Timothy was told a take a little wine for his stomach......... Go ahead, have a drink.

That is the answer the flesh we hoping for............. When it was against one's own conscience to start.

Just having coffee with my co-worker is fine after Work. After all We are both married and having coffee should be OK..........

Reasoning out things like this is the path to destruction and we are warned not to do so.
 
By Faith said:
Just having coffee with my co-worker is fine after Work. After all We are both married and having coffee should be OK...........
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:) This is very true. But it becomes a situational judgment call we need to make. Something like going to their house all alone for a meeting is a clear no.

1 Cor 5:10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.

What Paul is saying is that if we can't socialize with the unsaved we need leave this world.
 
KingJ said:
:) This is very true. But it becomes a situational judgment call we need to make. Something like going to their house all alone for a meeting is a clear no.

1 Cor 5:10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.

What Paul is saying is that if we can't socialize with the unsaved we need leave this world.
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Well, should have explained the situation a bit more.

Your co-worker is a female whom you talk to all the time at work. One day, she asked if you wanted to go for coffee. You think, what can it hurt, we are both married and what could go wrong.

To have to come counter reasons why it's OK to go to coffee with her, means there had been more on your mind about her than just coffee.

At times during work you have been casting down thoughts about her. She is fun, helpful, attractive, and it's just a working realationship.

Now, it's going to be just you two away from work having coffee.

So then having coffee becomes a weekly habbit, just on Friday's.

A few months pass, then you ask her to go to a play. Why not, your wife is always tired and someone gave you two free tickets. No harm there.

A few months later, your co-worker tells you that her and her husband have been talking about divorce.

Two years later, your broke, divorced, your co-worker you left your wife for left you. Now your wondering how God could have let this all happen to you.
 
By Faith said:
Well, should have explained the situation a bit more.

Your co-worker is a female whom you talk to all the time at work. One day, she asked if you wanted to go for coffee. You think, what can it hurt, we are both married and what could go wrong.

To have to come counter reasons why it's OK to go to coffee with her, means there had been more on your mind about her than just coffee.

At times during work you have been casting down thoughts about her. She is fun, helpful, attractive, and it's just a working realationship.

Now, it's going to be just you two away from work having coffee.

So then having coffee becomes a weekly habbit, just on Friday's.

A few months pass, then you ask her to go to a play. Why not, your wife is always tired and someone gave you two free tickets. No harm there.

A few months later, your co-worker tells you that her and her husband have been talking about divorce.

Two years later, your broke, divorced, your co-worker you left your wife for left you. Now your wondering how God could have let this all happen to you.
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:) I definitely agree with you on this.
 
Numbers 6:3 (KJV)
He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
Drink in moderation. :)
 
Num 6:1 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Num 6:2 "Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the LORD,
Num 6:3 he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.
Num 6:4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins.
Num 6:5 "All the days of his vow of separation, no razor shall touch his head. Until the time is completed for which he separates himself to the LORD, he shall be holy. He shall let the locks of hair of his head grow long.

Great rules for nazirites
 
By Faith said:
Ravindran Gave the answer, it's always the answer to all these questions.


There is no other answer but this Answer.

Anything that is not of faith, it is sin.

You should never, never, never, never violate your conscience. 30 some scriptures talk about Conscience and it's your key to hearing God clearly.

When you don't have faith to do something, like drinking a glass of wine, Then asking if it's OK or not is the path of fools. This is how the enemy operates, to Question...... question........... question..............

Did God really say, that you should die the day you eat that fruit....... Surely God did not say that, right Eve?

This is how millions of believers get off track, and down the road to messing up their life big time.

They question, not knowing if it's good or not. They know they should not, because they could, if it did not come up as a question that makes them pause.

So, they ask other people just as clueless as themselves..............

Yea, Jesus turned Water to wine, and Timothy was told a take a little wine for his stomach......... Go ahead, have a drink.

That is the answer the flesh we hoping for............. When it was against one's own conscience to start.

Just having coffee with my co-worker is fine after Work. After all We are both married and having coffee should be OK..........

Reasoning out things like this is the path to destruction and we are warned not to do so.
Click to expand...
This makes total sense to me....(and this is me being transparent) because I have been one to try and rationalize circumstances and situations (like this topic) when clearly my conscious had said something else. It's at those times I find myself "settling" into my flesh trying to justify what I do....dangerous dangerous place!

Bottom line (and I can see we are all in agreement) do it all for the glory of God!
 
calvin said:
...
Great rules for nazirites
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Which, on a side note, shows that a sacrifice is always of something that is good, not of something that is evil. The fruit of the vine was a blessing, and the Nazirite was to abstain from that particular blessing while under the vow. He wasn't to abstain because grapes and wine are bad, because they aren't. It wasn't at all like giving up cigarettes (not good) or pornography (definitely bad).
 
Jahida said:
This makes total sense to me....(and this is me being transparent) because I have been one to try and rationalize circumstances and situations (like this topic) when clearly my conscious had said something else. It's at those times I find myself "settling" into my flesh trying to justify what I do....dangerous dangerous place!

Bottom line (and I can see we are all in agreement) do it all for the glory of God!
Click to expand...

Amen. This is how God mainly leads (Aside for the large burning bush, HD visuals, and Dolby surround sound) but mainly God leads through the peace in our heart.

If I don't have peace about something, I have these questionings that end up on scale. 10 reasons it's good, 5 reasons it's not good.

The Pro's, the Con's

That is being naturally led, by what we can see and our understanding. To make it worse, we find others to side with why something is good or not good. They help add more to the scale.

Not everything is bad, but a bad choice for us, and not God's plan.

If we just take the time to seek God a bit and check the peace in our heart about something, we can steer clear of all those things that are going to end in epic failure.

We go through a lot of things, God never planed, or intended for our life. Had we just taken the time to check the peace in our heart about something and seek God, the answer was put inside us the whole time by the Holy Spirit.

When talking to other believers who need help, I find they have a series of problems and we go back right to the start of them. I ask them, what where you thinking when you started this, and what was in your heart.

You will find 100% of the time, they rationalized around things they knew in their heart.

God does not pick the less expensive, the best deal naturally, the most looking profitable one for us. He knows the best deal, and He knows how that is going to end up if we follow him all the way through. It might be picking the worse looking deal, the worse location, a place we don't even want to go.

However, if we don't practice over riding God with pro's and cons, we find that hearing God is easy, and those things that look horrible in the natural, we have peace in our heart to do and see it clearly, because we follow the Holy Spirit, the peace of God.

Be blessed.
 
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