Attention ! Terrorist Attack, Magdeburg, Germany, December 20, 2024

[ModeratorTeam]

Initial reports are saying that a 'Doctor' from Saudi Arabia drove a vehicle at high speed around barriers into a Christmas Market gathering.

Early reports are also saying that two persons at the Magdeburg, Germany, market have been killed with 50 to 60 injured.

The Staff at CFS is requesting membership prayers for the victims and their families.

We are also strongly recommending that ALL CFS members and Christians in general, be Situationally Aware of their surroundings and do not become victims to these terrorist attacks.

Law Enforcement and Security Agencies always say, "If you see something, say something."

May God watch over us all.


`

 

[rtm3039]

Initial reports are saying that a 'Doctor' from Saudi Arabia drove a vehicle at high speed around barriers into a Christmas Market gathering.

Early reports are also saying that two persons at the Magdeburg, Germany, market have been killed with 50 to 60 injured.

The Staff at CFS is requesting membership prayers for the victims and their families.

We are also strongly recommending that ALL CFS members and Christians in general, be Situationally Aware of their surroundings and do not become victims to these terrorist attacks.

Law Enforcement and Security Agencies always say, "If you see something, say something."

May God watch over us all.


`

It is now at five dead and more than 200 injured. It was a BMW SUV and the driver was identified as Dr. Taleb al-Abdulmohsen from Saudi Arabia. He is a psychologist who moved to Germany in 2006. He has no known links to Islamist extremism.

 

[rtm3039]

I never went to that one, but did go to the one in Nuernberg often. It draws a very large group of people.

Nuremberg Christmas Market - christkindlesmarkt.de

Every year, Germany's most famous Christmas Market in Nuremberg opens its stalls for visitors from all over the world, right in the middle of the city, on the historic Main Market Square.

www.christkindlesmarkt.de

 

[Prim90]

Seems the Germans gave the good doctor political asylum some decades ago. He was a wanted man in Saudi Arabia. His appreciation of his host nation was to do this. Apparently it not the first time the market Christmas celebrations have been under threat. The Muslims have sometimes marched right into the market protesting Christmas celebrations being cerebrated there. But nothing ever as sinister as this. Sadly they have a book that encourages just that against all other cultures be they religious or secular.

 

[rtm3039]

Seems the Germans gave the good doctor political asylum some decades ago. He was a wanted man in Saudi Arabia. His appreciation of his host nation was to do this. Apparently it not the first time the market Christmas celebrations have been under threat. The Muslims have sometimes marched right into the market protesting Christmas celebrations being cerebrated there. But nothing ever as sinister as this. Sadly they have a book that encourages just that against all other cultures be they religious or secular.

Hi.

Your link did not lead to anything. From what I am reading, he is anti-Islam and aligns himself with Germany's far-right political mechanism which is calling for Germany to close its borders and no longer take in immigrants. This group also claimed that Germany wanted to "Islamize Europe." He has a social media posting where he described himself as the "most aggressive critic of Islam."

At this point, it almost looks like he targeted a Christian market to protest Islam and add fuel to an already growing anti-Islam position in Germany.

I'll say this much, I lived in Germany from 1987 to 1995. From 1987 to 1990 I worked with their state police (Landeskriminalamt) and customs (Bundeszollverwaltun). I worked with their drug teams and can say that almost 100 of the heroin that came into the country was through immigrants from Africa (mostly from Senegal). The same for hashish, though Turkish immigrants. So, at least in the area of illicit drug trafficking, immigration was an issue. On the other hand, as is the same with every country, the majority of immigrants just want a better life

He was arrested, so his motives will eventually be made clearer.

 

[bobinfaith]

Seems the Germans gave the good doctor political asylum some decades ago. He was a wanted man in Saudi Arabia. His appreciation of his host nation was to do this. Apparently it not the first time the market Christmas celebrations have been under threat. The Muslims have sometimes marched right into the market protesting Christmas celebrations being cerebrated there. But nothing ever as sinister as this. Sadly they have a book that encourages just that against all other cultures be they religious or secular.

Good morning, Prim90;

I lived in Germany as an Air Force dependent at Rhein Main Air Force and Army Base, which is near Frankfurt.

I never heard of Nuremberg. How do you know this about the doctor and his past? Had you heard of him before?

I tried to open your link but it doesn't open. But the jpeg is a pink box.

 

[rtm3039]

Npw part of the conversation turns to Social Media.

Good morning, Prim90;

I lived in Germany as an Air Force dependent at Rhein Main Air Force and Army Base, which is near Frankfurt.

I never heard of Nuremberg. How do you know this about the doctor and his past? Had you heard of him before?

I tried to open your link but it doesn't open. But the jpeg is a pink box.

Part of this conversation has turned to social media. It appears that the Saudi government sent Germany several notices of the subject's political views. It is unknown what this information addressed, but German authorities claim that they followed up on the information and did not find it actionable. It is also believed that the notifications might have been misleading, as the subject's social media was critical of how Saudi Arabia treated women.

German authorities are also being critical of Elon Musk, who has called for the resignation of Chancellor Scholz, but apparently did nothing on the subject's threatening comments on the X platform (which Musk owns).

I see nothing in my readings that indicates there is any history to believe that what this guy did was to be expected. All I see is a history of anti-Islam comments and there is no way of connecting that to an attack on a Christmas market.

I do not know what German law enforcement looks like now, but back then, they were feared by everyone. Their gun laws are very strict, which is why you usually only hear of cars and knives being used in acts of this nature. Statistics indicate that there are around 1 million guns owned in Germany, mostly for hunting and sport. On average, it is reported that there are around 155 gun-related deaths in the country. Last year, we (US) had 48,204 gun-related deaths.

PS. You never heard of Nuernberg? How is that possible? At one point, back in the mid-1980s, Nurenberg had the largest population of US Military forces in Germany, I recalled the numbers being around 20,000. Nuremberg was the closest thing to America in Germany.

 

[Sola gratia]

I just like to add some of my thoughts to this tragedy:

The situation is quite a bit more complex then what some of you believe.
I speak German and listen to many sources.
But some of you, especially rtm3039, believe you fully understand the situation and you know best.
I don't think you do !
But I will NOT get into further details.

The Bible says:
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one (1 John 5:19)
The evil one is not just in certain groups we find him in the whole world.
He is now right in our midst.

The Western world has more or less rejected the Gospel
Evil and sin is now everywhere.
We start to reap what we have sown.!

Only a new Reformation or a new awakening could change the world.
Sadly very few realise this.
I watched many clips about this tragedy and everyone seems to believe to know what went wrong and have the right answers.
But sadly so far I have not heard a preacher calling for repentance !

Here is an interesting quote:
“If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be one nation gone under.”
(Ronald Reagan )
I know this is not straight from Scripture, but still worth to give it some thoughts and examine it further from Scripture.

May the Lord be with all the victimes of this tragedy and comfort them.

 

[rtm3039]

I just like to add some of my thoughts to this tragedy:

The situation is quite a bit more complex then what some of you believe.
I speak German and listen to many sources.
But some of you, especially rtm3039, believe you fully understand the situation and you know best.
I don't think you do !
But I will NOT get into further details.

The Bible says:
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one (1 John 5:19)
The evil one is not just in certain groups we find him in the whole world.
He is now right in our midst.

The Western world has more or less rejected the Gospel
Evil and sin is now everywhere.
We start to reap what we have sown.!

Only a new Reformation or a new awakening could change the world.
Sadly very few realise this.
I watched many clips about this tragedy and everyone seems to believe to know what went wrong and have the right answers.
But sadly so far I have not heard a preacher calling for repentance !

Here is an interesting quote:
“If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be one nation gone under.”
(Ronald Reagan )
I know this is not straight from Scripture, but still worth to give it some thoughts and examine it further from Scripture.

May the Lord be with all the victimes of this tragedy and comfort them.

Greetings Sola Gratia. I will do my best not to take your comment personally but be assured that I do not think I fully understand this, nor do I think I know best.

Your comments, while valid and true, only offer a solution to this not happening again. No level of repentance will change what has already happened. From what I have read, this person is a self-proclaimed atheist, so Biblical guidance is not something he was looking for. There is presently no information to support my position, but I believe his motives will be political, not biblical. The BBC released part of an interview he did back in 2019 and he made no remarks that would indicate an ideological issue for or against Christians.

“Evil and sin is now everywhere. We start to reap what we have sown.!” Was there ever a time, absent the Beginning, when evil and sin were not everywhere?

“But sadly so far I have not heard a preacher calling for repentance!” I have not heard this either, but I suspect that many have, just not on CNN or the BBC.

And Yes, I do not doubt that the Lord is with the victims of this tragedy and comforting those who look to Him for comfort.

 

[Prim90]

Hi.

Your link did not lead to anything. From what I am reading, he is anti-Islam and aligns himself with Germany's far-right political mechanism which is calling for Germany to close its borders and no longer take in immigrants. This group also claimed that Germany wanted to "Islamize Europe." He has a social media posting where he described himself as the "most aggressive critic of Islam."

At this point, it almost looks like he targeted a Christian market to protest Islam and add fuel to an already growing anti-Islam position in Germany.

I'll say this much, I lived in Germany from 1987 to 1995. From 1987 to 1990 I worked with their state police (Landeskriminalamt) and customs (Bundeszollverwaltun). I worked with their drug teams and can say that almost 100 of the heroin that came into the country was through immigrants from Africa (mostly from Senegal). The same for hashish, though Turkish immigrants. So, at least in the area of illicit drug trafficking, immigration was an issue. On the other hand, as is the same with every country, the majority of immigrants just want a better life

He was arrested, so his motives will eventually be made clearer.

RTM good morning from down under . There was no link. Only that the pink box was to begin a new paragraph which I never got around to doing as I had some visitors arrive . So quickly had to end my reply there and than. . As to DR Taleb Al Abdulmohsen yes he was a critic of Islam so he jumped out of the hot pot into the frying pan into becoming an ardent atheist. The reason why he was very much a person of interest wanted by the Saudi government, and the very reason the German government gave him political asylum for all those many years in Germany. As to his stance on immigration he seems to be some contradictory on that as he played some part in helping other Saudis seeking immigration and freedom from Islam. Seems he thought the German government wasn’t helping Saudis enough with their immigration. So it’s rather hard to evaluate his reasoning. As it seems he didn’t think much more highly of Christianity either. After all he injured some 200 along with 6 dead and still counting at a Christian market festival. Why didn’t he wait for a Muslim festival since his claim was that he was the the most aggressive critic of Islam. But no he chose a Christian festival instead . RTM you say ( At this point it looks like he targeted a Christian market to protest Islam and to add fuel to the already growing anti Islam position in Germany ) RTM it’s possible. But there be number of positions to evaluate on that. Yes there be those and others whose agenda has always been to upend the cultural heritage of western civilisation namely Christianity whose roots run deep within that system.

 

[Prim90]

Good morning, Prim90;

I lived in Germany as an Air Force dependent at Rhein Main Air Force and Army Base, which is near Frankfurt.

I never heard of Nuremberg. How do you know this about the doctor and his past? Had you heard of him before?

I tried to open your link but it doesn't open. But the jpeg is a pink box.

Bob me never mentioned Nuremberg I think RTM did. Had I heard of the culprit who committed the horrific deed prior to this . No . But he certainly wasn't the most aggressive critic of Islam. Christianity be far more critical of Islam than he could ever claim . Yours prim

 

[Prim90]

Npw part of the conversation turns to Social Media.

Part of this conversation has turned to social media. It appears that the Saudi government sent Germany several notices of the subject's political views. It is unknown what this information addressed, but German authorities claim that they followed up on the information and did not find it actionable. It is also believed that the notifications might have been misleading, as the subject's social media was critical of how Saudi Arabia treated women.

German authorities are also being critical of Elon Musk, who has called for the resignation of Chancellor Scholz, but apparently did nothing on the subject's threatening comments on the X platform (which Musk owns).

I see nothing in my readings that indicates there is any history to believe that what this guy did was to be expected. All I see is a history of anti-Islam comments and there is no way of connecting that to an attack on a Christmas market.

I do not know what German law enforcement looks like now, but back then, they were feared by everyone. Their gun laws are very strict, which is why you usually only hear of cars and knives being used in acts of this nature. Statistics indicate that there are around 1 million guns owned in Germany, mostly for hunting and sport. On average, it is reported that there are around 155 gun-related deaths in the country. Last year, we (US) had 48,204 gun-related deaths.

PS. You never heard of Nuernberg? How is that possible? At one point, back in the mid-1980s, Nurenberg had the largest population of US Military forces in Germany, I recalled the numbers being around 20,000. Nuremberg was the closest thing to America in Germany.

Well RTM that’s all good and well with there being much less death due to strict gun controls in Germany and might I say much of the British commonwealth now be much the same including more so Australia we had to hand in nearly all our guns after the port Authur massacre. It’s all good and well as long you have good people in government. But what happens when you don’t have a good government ? And you suddenly find that you have a government that chooses to go rogue over the freedoms of the people . Australia has yet to come face to face with that reality. Unlike America that probably has more guns than its actual citizenry to defend themselves against tyrant and foe alike in such a situation. We here are now defenceless against our government should ever such a situation occur. I think I’d rather be in America with the many freedoms that your constitution does afford including the right to bear arms . Yours Prim

 

[rtm3039]

Well RTM that’s all good and well with there being much less death due to strict gun controls in Germany and might I say much of the British commonwealth now be much the same including more so Australia we had to hand in nearly all our guns after the port Authur massacre. It’s all good and well as long you have good people in government. But what happens when you don’t have a good government ? And you suddenly find that you have a government that chooses to go rogue over the freedoms of the people . Australia has yet to come face to face with that reality. Unlike America that probably has more guns than its actual citizenry to defend themselves against tyrant and foe alike in such a situation. We here are now defenceless against our government should ever such a situation occur. I think I’d rather be in America with the many freedoms that your constitution does afford including the right to bear arms . Yours Prim

Hi back,

You do bring up some fascinating points. I own so many guns that it is almost embarrassing to admit it. And, yes, we here in America have more guns than people. It is estimated that we have around 500 million civilian owned firearms and around 335 million people. Most of these firearms do not require registration. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” I am good with the rights it provides me, but not foolish enough to believe that (1) I am a member of a well regulated militia (but I did serve in the military for 25 years) and (2) that my impressive ownership of weapons and ammunition would stand a chance of going against one Bell AH-1 Cobra helicopter.

It would be my hope that in the event of a rogue government, not all elements of the government would agree and the system would correct itself. That is probably unrealistic, but can’t blame a guy for hoping. Technically, we have 51 governments (1 federal and 50 state). Each of these governments have their own military (states control their national guards, which was the original idea behind this “well-regulated militia”). Not all states would be loyal to the federal government, which is why some are called “red” states and some “blue” states.

Now, as far as individual rights we have here in America, a great deal of that is how you look at it. As one simple example that might otherwise go unnoticed. If I wanted to put up a fence on my own property, below are all the steps I have to go through just for the right to put up a fence on property I already own:

 

[bobinfaith]

I just like to add some of my thoughts to this tragedy: The situation is quite a bit more complex then what some of you believe. I speak German and listen to many sources. But some of you, especially rtm3039, believe you fully understand the situation and you know best. I don't think you do !
But I will NOT get into further details. The Bible says: We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one (1 John 5:19)
The evil one is not just in certain groups we find him in the whole world. He is now right in our midst. The Western world has more or less rejected the Gospel Evil and sin is now everywhere. We start to reap what we have sown.! Only a new Reformation or a new awakening could change the world. Sadly very few realise this. I watched many clips about this tragedy and everyone seems to believe to know what went wrong and have the right answers. But sadly so far I have not heard a preacher calling for repentance ! Here is an interesting quote: “If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be one nation gone under.” (Ronald Reagan ) I know this is not straight from Scripture, but still worth to give it some thoughts and examine it further from Scripture. May the Lord be with all the victimes of this tragedy and comfort them.

Hello Sola gratia;

I blue and red-lighted parts of your post.

You are correct, brother. The situation is actually more complex than what many of us believe and many of us don't know what exactly went wrong but feel we have the right answers, from our side of the world.

We receive it the best way we can but those who do have valid resources get a better understanding as the updated information continues and reaches our communities.

This is ironic. End of October during our mission I learned while in Romania and Western Ukraine the Christian community only knew what has been going on in the United States and our faith walk, mostly from social media and the internet. While there our team visited our brothers and sisters in their home Churches. They heard our testimonies, struggles and faith in Christ, face to face.

I expressed to the congregations and their Pastors, "we covet your prayers for our home country." They were very receiving of our request.

Nothing beats live testimony. They were ministering to me and lifted up prayers as we were nearing the end of our mission heading back to our home country. It was very humbling and rewarding.

Back home we have been praying incessantly for Deútschland and their many other ongoing struggles and a call for repentence for years, side by side with our German, European and Christian communities.

Things are tough all over. This when we all need to get on the same team with one goal in mind - His ultimate Kingdom on all four corners of the earth.

God bless you, sola gratia, and thank you for sharing.

Merry Christmas!

Bob

 

[bobinfaith]

PS. You never heard of Nuernberg? How is that possible? At one point, back in the mid-1980s, Nurenberg had the largest population of US Military forces in Germany, I recalled the numbers being around 20,000. Nuremberg was the closest thing to America in Germany.

Bob me never mentioned Nuremberg I think RTM did. Had I heard of the culprit who committed the horrific deed prior to this . No . But he certainly wasn't the most aggressive critic of Islam. Christianity be far more critical of Islam than he could ever claim . Yours prim

Hello rtm3039 and Prim90;

I lived in Germany back in the mid-60s playing marbles while Dad was a navigator and flew those C-130s. (humble brag, I'm proud of my Dad)

I remember Rhein Main AF Army Base, Wiesbaden and Frankfurt, but never heard of Nuremberg.

Prim90, I stand corrected. I thought it was you who mentioned Nuremberg. This is RTM'S fault. lol!

Bob

 

[rtm3039]

Hello rtm3039 and Prim90;

I lived in Germany back in the mid-60s playing marbles while Dad was a navigator and flew those C-130s. (humble brag, I'm proud of my Dad)

I remember Rhein Main AF Army Base, Wiesbaden and Frankfurt, but never heard of Nuremberg.

Prim90, I stand corrected. I thought it was you who mentioned Nuremberg. This is RTM'S fault. lol!

Bob

My first tour in Germany was in 1980. One year later, the NATO commanding general was attacked in Heidelberg, Germany. Some colonel was kidnapped, and I recall one other attack on US forces. We lived in Heidelberg and needed to check our vehicles for possible explosives every morning before driving to work and, for a while, each neighborhood had to schedule two hours with teams of two walking the neighborhood. Those were not fun days. They even had some silly policy asking service members, and their families, to avoid “dressing like Americans” or speaking English while out and about.

Back then, it was all about Nuernberg. It has the largest post exchange (PX) in the country, an actual car dealership, and even a Pizza Hut. When the drawdown went into full swing (post Desert Storm), the population went from 20,000 to around 2,000 in the drop of a hat.

 

[Sola gratia]

rtm
Thank you for your reply

Things are tough all over. This when we all need to get on the same team with one goal in mind - His ultimate Kingdom on all four corners of the earth.

YES, may we seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness...

Merry Christmas to all

 

[rtm3039]

rtm
Thank you for your reply


YES, may we seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness...

Merry Christmas to all

And thank you for your insight. May you and your family have a blessed Christmas and New Year's. Let's all take this special time of the year to pray that we all find the answers to all these questions.

Rtm

 

[rtm3039]

Well RTM that’s all good and well with there being much less death due to strict gun controls in Germany and might I say much of the British commonwealth now be much the same including more so Australia we had to hand in nearly all our guns after the port Authur massacre. It’s all good and well as long you have good people in government. But what happens when you don’t have a good government ? And you suddenly find that you have a government that chooses to go rogue over the freedoms of the people . Australia has yet to come face to face with that reality. Unlike America that probably has more guns than its actual citizenry to defend themselves against tyrant and foe alike in such a situation. We here are now defenceless against our government should ever such a situation occur. I think I’d rather be in America with the many freedoms that your constitution does afford including the right to bear arms . Yours Prim

Morning. I wanted to thank you for bringing up the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. This is a topic I have always found fascinating. When I was in graduate school, my research was on the Fourth Amendment, and I really enjoyed doing the research and learning how that particular amendment evolved from an idea to a right.

It is important to note that these rights are not absolute. We have freedom of speech, but we can't yell “fire” in a crowded movie theater. We have the right to bear arms, but we cannot buy a missile. We are protected against unreasonable searches, but it does not define what “unreasonable” is and there are so many ways around that (search incident to arrest, the plain view doctrine, the doctrine of inevitable discovery). We can’t be tried twice for the same crime, but we can if there is a mistrial or if it is in different jurisdictions.

The third amendment is a bit odd in modern times, but the Supreme Court has used it to support that the original intent also included the government not intruding into a person’s home and private life. “For example, in the 1965 case Griswold v. Connecticut, the Supreme Court cited the Third Amendment as evidence that the Constitution protects a "zone of privacy" that includes the right of married couples to use birth control.

The Ninth Amendment is interesting, as some people will claim that the right to bear arms is not because of the Second Amendment (since that amendment addressed a “well-regulated Militia). But, since nothing in the Constitution prohibits a citizen from owning a gun, the Ninth Amendment allows it.

It is interesting that so many of the Amendments focus on protecting someone accused of a crime:

First Amendment: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of assembly

Second Amendment: the right of the people to keep and bear arms

Third Amendment: restricts housing soldiers in private homes

Fourth Amendment: protects against unreasonable search and seizure

Fifth Amendment: protects against self-testimony, being tried twice for the same crime, and the seizure of property under eminent domain

Sixth Amendment: the rights to a speedy trial, trial by jury, and to the services of a lawyer

Seventh Amendment: guarantees trial by jury in cases involving a certain dollar amount

Eighth Amendment: prohibits excessive bail or fines and cruel and unusual punishment for crimes

Ninth Amendment: listing of rights (in the Bill of Rights) does not mean that other rights are not in effect

Tenth Amendment: power not granted to the Federal Government is reserved for states or individual people

 

[Prim90]

Morning. I wanted to thank you for bringing up the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. This is a topic I have always found fascinating. When I was in graduate school, my research was on the Fourth Amendment, and I really enjoyed doing the research and learning how that particular amendment evolved from an idea to a right.

It is important to note that these rights are not absolute. We have freedom of speech, but we can't yell “fire” in a crowded movie theater. We have the right to bear arms, but we cannot buy a missile. We are protected against unreasonable searches, but it does not define what “unreasonable” is and there are so many ways around that (search incident to arrest, the plain view doctrine, the doctrine of inevitable discovery). We can’t be tried twice for the same crime, but we can if there is a mistrial or if it is in different jurisdictions.

The third amendment is a bit odd in modern times, but the Supreme Court has used it to support that the original intent also included the government not intruding into a person’s home and private life. “For example, in the 1965 case Griswold v. Connecticut, the Supreme Court cited the Third Amendment as evidence that the Constitution protects a "zone of privacy" that includes the right of married couples to use birth control.

The Ninth Amendment is interesting, as some people will claim that the right to bear arms is not because of the Second Amendment (since that amendment addressed a “well-regulated Militia). But, since nothing in the Constitution prohibits a citizen from owning a gun, the Ninth Amendment allows it.

It is interesting that so many of the Amendments focus on protecting someone accused of a crime:

First Amendment: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of assembly

Second Amendment: the right of the people to keep and bear arms

Third Amendment: restricts housing soldiers in private homes

Fourth Amendment: protects against unreasonable search and seizure

Fifth Amendment: protects against self-testimony, being tried twice for the same crime, and the seizure of property under eminent domain

Sixth Amendment: the rights to a speedy trial, trial by jury, and to the services of a lawyer

Seventh Amendment: guarantees trial by jury in cases involving a certain dollar amount

Eighth Amendment: prohibits excessive bail or fines and cruel and unusual punishment for crimes

Ninth Amendment: listing of rights (in the Bill of Rights) does not mean that other rights are not in effect

Tenth Amendment: power not granted to the Federal Government is reserved for states or individual people

RTM thank you for explaining more on your constitution . And yes there has been add ons over the centuries I think the founding fathers expected some to occur. I think of the treaty of Tripoli 1797 with the Muslim Barbary pirates. Wherein in the interests of protecting American shipping they laid out to the Muslims in an agreement that the American constitution never singly represented solely the Christian religion. Not sure that one was a wise decision . But some do say there was much enlightenment thinking introduced even at the conception of your constitution. Even if a vast majority of early Americans were predominantly Christian. Still for the most part your constitution has remained solid on many of the points you mentioned within your constitution. But as we have seen in the past 4 yrs just how quickly a constitution can be upended if the wrong people infiltrate the legal system such as the 6th amendment with the right to a speedy trial with Judge Engoron taking it upon himself to delay the the alleged verdict for 4 yrs until President is no longer in power as president so he can’t claim presidential immunity. . We also see in New York and a few other states where long standing laws have been changed like the statute of limitations whereas as now you can be brought to trial from people with crimes allegedly committed some 20 or 30 yrs ago. Such as Jean Carrol’s alleged sexual abuse case against president Trump in a department store some 20 yrs ago in the 90’s. There simply was no evidence just her word against Mr Trumps . When President Trump protested his innocence against Her accusations he was whacked another 80 + million dollars for supposedly slandering her so called reputation. Never mind that Mr Trumps reputation was being slandered and destroyed Go figure that I’ve never come across such a happier supposed rape victim than her. . RTM whilst it is true that all freedom has its boundaries. Yet we have seen the opposite in the past 4 yrs with the freedom of the press has be much controlled and abused. We have also see freedom of speech and your freedom of privacy being much abused also. Often ending in jail time by unconstitutional acts from government authorities . RTM I guess when evaluating everything our laws are only as good as the people that lay behind them and claim to uphold them in all truth.. I thank you for long detailed reply. I wish you much warm Christmas pudding tomorrow. For your Christmas in your America be much cold yours Prim