the american dream

Lanolin said:
Is that what is called a meritocracy?
I suppose there's good things about that but then again only applies to certain groups of people.
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A Meritocracy is a type of compulsory Socialism or Communism

Quote:
From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.
Karl Marx

It is in the compulsory Communistic model that “compulsory needs” will play a pivotal despotic role using “State-managed rewards and punishments” in order to mandate things “fair through compulsion and despotism.” Can we agree that a Meritocracy also requires the “compulsory State to manage also what is merited” using the same compulsion and despotism that Communism will use to force a society fair?” Both have an unjust master which will always mature to be the tyrannical State of despotism.

Instead is it possible that it’s proper to understand that the U.S. was a Limited Democratic Republic in the beginning and has now mutated to a Socialistic Democratic Republic; a far cry from a compulsory Meritocracy in the beginning but is now on immoral grounds moving closer to it every minute?
 
Im sorry great fiction when you write it goes over my head a lot of it.
But if it is so..then it cant be anything to do with Gods grace cos people always say grace means unmerited favour.
 
Lanolin said:
I suppose working for the enlightened self is a lot different from serving the Lord. You may have good intentions...but that road does lead to hell.

I just learned in my journey that that christians are actually need to be selfless, self is satans way of tempting us to put our own selves first before anyone else. Self-interest. I was also brought up with that mindset...to stand on my own two feet, to be self reliant. To look out for number one and rely on myself.

Jesus always listened to his Father, he did not come here to further his own interests.
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Lanolin, is it possible that if you lose your self-interest, then you lose your own self preservation? Scripture supports self-interest, yet it condemns selfishness in the confines of lust.

Mark 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
 
Lanolin said:
Im sorry great fiction when you write it goes over my head a lot of it.
But if it is so..then it cant be anything to do with Gods grace cos people always say grace means unmerited favour.
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Im sorry Lanolin, I simply meant to say that a Meritocracy is predicated on socialistic violence and that the U.S. was in contrast a Limited Democratic Republic.
 
Well, I always took that to mean love your neighbour as you love God...see the first commandment.
The first follows on from the second. Notice its love THY NEIGHBOUR.
 
It does not ever mean love your own self i dont think. Otherwise Jesus would not have did what he did, he would have run from being crucified. But he did that cos he loved us. He gave himself for us.
 
Lanolin said:
Well, I always took that to mean love your neighbour as you love God...see the first commandment.
The first follows on from the second. Notice its love THY NEIGHBOUR.
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In kindness Lanolin, is it possible that Christ in the book of Mark was quoting the Old Testament?
Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

However, I do understand your position of love Lanolin, yet I would simply offer that we also have a mandate to "love our-self" too, yet not unto dishonesty, lust or filthy lucre (mammon as our controlling desire).
 
Lanolin said:
It does not ever mean love your own self i dont think. Otherwise Jesus would not have did what he did, he would have run from being crucified. But he did that cos he loved us. He gave himself for us.
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Is it possible that God made you in His image and that His creation is "good," and that you are wonderfully made? :)
 
Yes of course, but He said Love thy neighbour as thyself, not love thyself as thy neighbour.

we already love ourselves far too much.
 
besides, you can't really do the second commandment if you haven't done the first, and only God can give you His love so that you CAN return his love and also love other people. You just need to accept his love, the love that he sent in His only begotten son, Jesus.

By doing that, we are all loved.
 
A lot of thoughts here, I'd like to throw in some of my own.
No question that the American dream is associated with financial security, but asking those of us who aren't immigrants or generationally close to some will likely get you a different kind of response.
For my part, the American dream means opportunity with little in the way of governmental limitations in the sense that just because one is born to a certain class does not mandate that they die in the same class.
Much of the cynicism regarding the American Dream comes, I believe, from those whose parents enjoyed it and who expect continued socio-economic progress to be a birthright. I know folks who seem to have had less opportunity than me but who are multi-millionaires and made their money honestly. I know folks who had more opportunities than me who seem to lack the discipline to live without continued parental support.
The American Dream is only about opportunity and a reasonable chance to seize it. It is emphatically not about guarantees as guarantees create limitations.
An immigrant can still get off the boat a young man and die rich through hard work and a bit of good luck. This is still more true here today than most any other place in the world. Bill Gates , Warren Buffett, Sam Walton... There are plenty of chances still left, the dream is still real, but the corollary is that the dream also allows folks to fail.
 
I recall Andrew Carnegie did not want to die rich. He wanted to give ALL his money away before he died.
I think the opportunity may still be there, but not like when america was first founded when there was heaps of land for the taking. And also, it does not seem to apply to those who were slaves. Theres still prejudice and segregation in america. Really sad to see.

Nobody seems to want to comment on Martin Luther kings speech....
 
Martin Luther King's speech was given during the civil rights movement, and his hope of seeing an America without the segregation of races.

As far as segregation and prejudice go, it is abundant everywhere you go, it just has different flavors.
 
I suppose thinking on this now having a black President Obama means yes. Cos everyone eats with him and the other leaders dont snub him cos of his skin color.
Then I think of other ethnicities who have to overcome a lot to make it in america. Immigrants especially are driven out of necessity, the next generation will always have it a bit easier. Which is a good thing, but also makes them bit soft, but then you cant have it both ways. If you born with silver spoon in your mouth, why should you strive? Be blessed with what you have.

But then I think of those who do want to earn their living and thats not bad either, cos you have freedom to be your own person, not just what your parents were.
 
I guess it didnt work when slavery was still in place.
And now women can have their dream too, and not always need a man to support them or be looked down on cos they a woman.

I suppose the cynical way of looking at it is now its open for everyone theres more competition. And some ppl just dont want to or need to play the game. If its competition then there will be winners and losers, and always some ruthless ppl who cheat and lie. But then theres examples of good sportsmanship. Although I think the .winners bible originated in america.

America is really into self-help. Like all the books on self-help in the library? All from america. You'd think americans would want to help each other but it seems like every man for himself. Thats why so many lonely people there. And so many pschiatrists and new age religions.
 
The corruption in america is running rampant. Just look at the stories of the patent office and how individuals' patents were delayed and sometimes never saw the light of day while corporate patent requests were fast tracked.
Even locally the patent attorney practices will block inividuals from the process unless you are rich. If you approach a patent attorney in my city, the first thing they want to know is your list of assets. You are then warned of an expensive and prolonged appeals process tht could (and will) drain you of most/all of your assets. Instead of just working ethically and promptly for their clients, the patent atty. takes the client for a "ride" and drains the client until dry.....only then does the atty. actually push the patent application through. The atty. makes his money through appeals.
My wife has a simple idea tht could make millions, but we can't trust lawyers. We have money for a patent, just no money to feed the greed of unsrupulous attys.
More and more american individuals are patenting outside the united states to avoid the rampant corruption
 
James Truslow Adams coined the term "The American Dream." His definition was "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement, regardless of social class or circumstances of birth."

In other words, people granted the opportunity to exercise their liberties. The chance at Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Speaking from a Christian perspective, the idea would be to use one's liberties in a way that glorifies God. Being free to worship Him without interference (people in tyrannical states can and do worship God, but their is interference). Being able to do acts of charity toward others without being stopped. Having the ability to have a family and raise them in a way God would want.

That's what the American Dream is. I'm not convinced we have this so much today. I think our liberties aren't being recognized the way they have always been intended.
 
Lanolin said:
I just like to ask any americans on this forum...what exactly is the american dream?
And...are you living it?
Or is it just an illusion?

Does it have anything to do with Martin Luther King's speech?
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To me the American dream is a remote control for the TV!!!!!
 
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