The Bible Speaks Of Only One Way To Eternal Salvation

I teach the uncut word of God, those situation I'm quite sure God will deal with them at the time appointed, but for those who are able to do the will of God and hear his word, their time is now. Paul said in Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

What Paul is taking about here is those who will rest in Jesus Kingdom, the saint, those who will make to the first resurrection, who will do the will of the Father, which is to keep the commandments. So don't harden your hart when you hear what you have to do to become a saint. Its written in Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I am sure that you are doing what you believe is the correct teaching Bro.tan. But personal belief does not allways translate into Biblical truth my brother. You are using verses in Scripture to support your pre-concieved belief that we as believers must keep the law stay saved. That is just not the case.

Now for an example consider the Scriptures you just posted in Hebrews 3:12-16.

This warning is addressed to the "Brethren", the professing Jewish believers, lest any have unbelief in his heart and thus depart from God.

This departing (Apostenai) is the source of our word today......"Apostasy". That is the deliberate departure from God's full revelation which of course is the Lord Jesus Christ. These Jewish brethren were being tempted by an evil heart of unbelief to return to Judaism. To do so meant that they would have to reject that full revelation which they have received and return to the INCOMPLETE REVELATION OF JUDAISM. Because of that, they are admonished to exhort one another daily with the truths that they will strengthen their faith in Christ such as the truths in the epistle of Hebrews.

So then what was their problem IF they were believers. What was their great sin that would cause such an action Bro.tan?????

My dear friend, they did not believe God! Their great sin then is still the great sin today........ UNBELIEF!

The writer is not addressing keeping the law at all. He is in fact proposesing that Israel's fickle faith did not manifest itself AS TRUE FAITH nor will that kind of faith do so today. Jesus told us that true faith is the implanting of the Word of God into a receptive, believing heart in Luke 8:4-15. Remember, we have become "partakers" IN Christ, not partners with Christ.

Then you use Revelation 14:12.....
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Bro.tan.........Those words do not apply to us today. The Revelation has NO church doctrine in it Bro.tan. These words are given to that group of people during the Tribulation who will have to keep the commandments of the Law and they can not take the mark of the beast.

To them Jesus says in Matt. 24:13.....
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

All the God's own can do during this period is to be patient and wait on the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

Now, why will he endure?????? He will endure because he is sealed by the Holy Spirit and is clothed in righteousness. He is able to endure and overcome by the blood of the Lamb of God.
 
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Bro.tan

Inactive
I am sure that you are doing what you believe is the correct teaching Bro.tan. But personal belief does not allways translate into Biblical truth my brother. You are using verses in Scripture to support your pre-concieved belief that we as believers must keep the law stay saved. That is just not the case.

Now for an example consider the Scriptures you just posted in Hebrews 3:12-16.

This warning is addressed to the "Brethren", the professing Jewish believers, lest any have unbelief in his heart and thus depart from God.

This departing (Apostenai) is the source of our word today......"Apostasy". That is the deliberate departure from God's full revelation which of course is the Lord Jesus Christ. These Jewish brethren were being tempted by an evil heart of unbelief to return to Judaism. To do so meant that they would have to reject that full revelation which they have received and return to the INCOMPLETE REVELATION OF JUDAISM. Because of that, they are admonished to exhort one another daily with the truths that they will strengthen their faith in Christ such as the truths in the epistle of Hebrews.

So then what was their problem IF they were believers. What was their great sin that would cause such an action Bro.tan?????

My dear friend, they did not believe God! Their great sin then is still the great sin today........ UNBELIEF!

The writer is not addressing keeping the law at all. He is in fact proposesing that Israel's fickle faith did not manifest itself AS TRUE FAITH nor will that kind of faith do so today. Jesus told us that true faith is the implanting of the Word of God into a receptive, believing heart in Luke 8:4-15. Remember, we have become "partakers" IN Christ, not partners with Christ.

Then you use Revelation 14:12.....
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Bro.tan.........Those words do not apply to us today. The Revelation has NO church doctrine in it Bro.tan. These words are given to that group of people during the Tribulation who will have to keep the commandments of the Law and they can not take the mark of the beast.

To them Jesus says in Matt. 24:13.....
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

All the God's own can do during this period is to be patient and wait on the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

Now, why will he endure?????? He will endure because he is sealed by the Holy Spirit and is clothed in righteousness. He is able to endure and overcome by the blood of the Lamb of God.



The question is How can one who is not of the lineage of Israel, become partakers of the covenant of God? Lets take a look into (Ephesians 2:11-22) Let's look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."


Now the Lord has brought the Gentiles in his word, lets continue with Paul and see do they get special treatment.


Now, Paul said in Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
 
Yes brother Tan, this applies to all who are under the Law and if you are then you must keep the whole of the Law (but alas you have already sinned...now how do they get remissed so you can enter heaven? By now keeping the whole of the Law...remember, you must do it forever till ye die)...unfortunately from this moment on you could keep all the Law and still die with your sins un-remissed. what then?
 
Bro Tan,

You need to read the rest of Romans 3.

Rom 3:
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

And in Galatians:

Ga 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Clear enough?

I was refusing to post on this thread, I was so utterly opposed but given that there is no amen or halla lou ya (sound it out - I still can't remember how to spell it) buttons on the new fangled array, and winner just didn't say it all - I felt compelled to post. Dang good post, Steve (and you too, Major)
 
The question is How can one who is not of the lineage of Israel, become partakers of the covenant of God? Lets take a look into (Ephesians 2:11-22) Let's look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."


Now the Lord has brought the Gentiles in his word, lets continue with Paul and see do they get special treatment.


Now, Paul said in Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Bro.tan.............You are working very hard to make the Scriptures say what you want them to say. You, somewhere along your life have been impressed by someone who taught you wrong and now you are trying to hold up what you believe to be right.

You are, and I say it again, practicing the ancient belief of a "Judaizer". It is not new and you have not discovered something revalent to Christianity. Just the opposite I am afraid as that is exactly why Paul wrote to the Galatians 2000 years ago. You are trying to mix Grace with law and it did not work then and it will not work now.

I have said it before and again now........to believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus was not enough to have man and keep him saved is to slap the Lord Jesus across the face.
 
Bro Tan,

You need to read the rest of Romans 3.

Rom 3:
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

And in Galatians:

Ga 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Clear enough?

Well said my brother!
 
Yes brother Tan, this applies to all who are under the Law and if you are then you must keep the whole of the Law (but alas you have already sinned...now how do they get remissed so you can enter heaven? By now keeping the whole of the Law...remember, you must do it forever till ye die)...unfortunately from this moment on you could keep all the Law and still die with your sins un-remissed. what then?

Agreed!
 
I'm confused. So am I hearing sin is no problem and I can sin without a care? To try avoiding sin is not possible or at least since I can't be perfect I shouldn't bother?
 
Also, isn't there a big difference between obedience to receive salvation [wrong] and obedience out of a real true love and respect for the Father?
 
I'm confused. So am I hearing sin is no problem and I can sin without a care? To try avoiding sin is not possible or at least since I can't be perfect I shouldn't bother?

Lynn...you are misunderstanding. Grace does not say sin is no problem so sin without care, grace says sin not but when you do you have an advocate with the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, now go and repentantly confess (agree with Him about your sin) and He is just and faithful to forgive you your sin. That is not to say we sin on purpose (guarding against it and striving not to is correct...reckon yourself dead unto sin). The law is now something written on your heart. Sin is now the rare exception (usually sins of omission) where before we came to Christ it was our lifestyle as we lived for self. I can honestly say without the yoke of "obey this list of dos and don'ts" I cannot count how many times in a year I sin on one hand. As far as I can tell I break none of the 10 commandments and I do not even think about it. When I was unsaved on Wednesday I was already preparing for my Friday and Saturday evening sinfest and looking forward to it, not thinking about sin, just loving successful self indulgence, self satisfaction (sex, drugs, boozing, swearing as normal speech, carousing till the wee hours trying to beguile as many women into my bed as possible, getting over on others, full of false idols, coveteousness, adultery in heart and action...what was false witness if something could be gained)...do you think I stopped that and cleaned me up? Thats reformation not repentance...the love and mercy of God (both realizing it and experiencing it over and over) caused me to repent (just like the Bible says)...when I first came to Christ I stll wrestled for about 10 years in and out of sinning...but in His amazing grace and love He would work out the circumstances that caused me to not have sin resources and my newly awakened conscience led me often to a contrite heart and humbled me over and over...you see as I sought more of Him and yielded more and more, it was Him not me. That is why I know what He genuinely begins IN THE SPIRIT He does not end in the flesh...

Stop striving in your flesh to stop doing wrong (in consciousness of the Law which consciousness leads self condemnation and death) and give in admitting to the Spirit your utter failure and weakness and then just go about doing right (moment by moment)...God will make it all happen over not so long a time as you think and you will one day look back and say...amazing...our God truly IS an awesome God

In His love

brother Paul
 
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Lynn...you are misunderstanding. Grace does not say sin is no problem so sin without care, grace says sin not but when you do you have an advocate with the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, now go and repentantly confess (agree with Him about your sin) and He is just and faithful to forgive you your sin. That is not to say we sin on purpose (guarding against it and striving not to is correct...reckon yourself dead unto sin). The law is now something written on your heart. Sin is now the rare exception (usually sins of omission) where before we came to Christ it was our lifestyle as we lived for self. I can honestly say without the yoke of "obey this list of dos and don'ts" I cannot count how many times in a year I sin on one hand. As far as I can tell I break none of the 10 commandments and I do not even think about it. When I was unsaved on Wednesday I was already preparing for my Friday and Saturday evening sinfest and looking forward to it, not thinking about sin, just loving successful self indulgence, self satisfaction (sex, drugs, boozing, swearing as normal speech, carousing till the wee hours trying to beguile as many women into my bed as possible, getting over on others, full of false idols, coveteousness, adultery in heart and action...what was false witness if something could be gained)...do you think I stopped that and cleaned me up? Thats reformation not repentance...the love and mercy of God (both realizing it and experiencing it over and over) caused me to repent (just like the Bible says)...when I first came to Christ I stll wrestled for about 10 years in and out of sinning...but in His amazing grace and love He would work out the circumstances that caused me to not have sin resources and my newly awakened conscience led me often to a contrite heart and humbled me over and over...you see as I sought more of Him and yielded more and more, it was Him not me. That is why I know what He genuinely begins IN THE SPIRIT He does not end in the flesh...

Stop striving in your flesh to stop doing wrong (in consciousness of the Law which consciousness leads self condemnation and death) and give in admitting to the Spirit your utter failure and weakness and then just go about doing right (moment by moment)...God will make it all happen over not so long a time as you think and you will one day look back and say...amazing...our God truly IS an awesome God

In His love

brother Paul
Brother Paul I'm not misunderstanding what you say as I agree completely with you. I just didn't understand what the dispute was on this thread. I may have to start over and reread. I just couldn't figure out where the disagreement began and why.
Have a great day!
 
The dispute is this:
One person says that salvation is contingent upon ones performance
Bible says that salvation by faith apart from works.

The additional point I made in response to you was that the saved person does not characteristically sin. Which is not the same as the proposition that one must not sin in order to be saved.

Brother Paul's point is much in line with "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." This as opposed to walking by way of regulations or making salvation contingent upon walking by way of regulations, as in the case of sacramental theology (Catholicism).

That same passage says, "If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." The law of sin and death does not apply to those walking by the Spirit.

And "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

This is not saying that you are saved by not sinning, but rather that those was have been saved don't live like this. A person's performance is not the method by which a person is saved, but rather an indicator of whether a person has been saved.

Thus for example hich I quoted is followed by this: Speaking in a lifestyle, characteristic sense ays, "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother."
Hi Steve, I'll have to reread the thread as I just wasn't sure where someone said our salvation was dependent upon our works. I must've missed that!
Have a great
 
Also, isn't there a big difference between obedience to receive salvation [wrong] and obedience out of a real true love and respect for the Father?

Sure lynn, I think that's a really insightful question, grace allows for a change in the motivation behind what we do.

Consider this interesting passage from Galatians 4:

4 I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything,2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father.3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

This thought has been helpful to me:

If we are under the Law, we are slaves to it. We work the fields of our master out of fear of the consequences for disobedience.

But if we are under grace, we are no longer called slaves, but heirs!

As heirs, we still work the same field of our now-adopted Father, but no longer out of fear, but now because we want to be good stewards of what the Father has entrusted us: our own inheritance.

It seems to me that if our salvation depends on our perfection, then what good is it to be called an heir, if our best motivation for obedience is fear of the consequences of disobedience?
 
Sure lynn, I think that's a really insightful question, grace allows for a change in the motivation behind what we do.

Consider this interesting passage from

4 I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything,2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father.3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

This thought has been helpful to me:

If we are under the Law, we are slaves to it. We work the fields of our master out of fear of the consequences for disobedience.

But if we are under grace, we are no longer called slaves, but heirs!

As heirs, we still work the same field of our now-adopted Father, but no longer out of fear, but now because we want to be good stewards of what the Father has entrusted us: our own inheritance.

It seems to me that if our salvation depends on our perfection, then what good is it to be called an heir, if our best motivation for obedience is fear of the consequences of disobedience?
Roads, I agree with you. My question is what one means when they say they are no longer under the law but under grace. Someone close to me said that all the time to excuse his sin [cursing, fornication, drinking, porn, etc. While calling me a pharisee or Moses for not wanting to do the same.]
 
Roads, I agree with you. My question is what one means when they say they are no longer under the law but under grace. Someone close to me said that all the time to excuse his sin [cursing, fornication, drinking, porn, etc. While calling me a pharisee or Moses for not wanting to do the same.]

Well, when the Bible talks about what it means to be under grace and not the law, it says that it means that we should STOP sinning. The distinction between being under grace and under the law is never about permission to sin, it's about, as you've already insightfully noted, our motivation for pursuing righteousness:

Romans 6:1-15
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
 
Someone close to me said that all the time to excuse his sin

If anyone every tells you that grace=permission to sin, just lay Romans 6:15 down and do the "facts" dance:

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

facts.gif


Well, maybe do it somewhat more gently than that... but yeah.
 
If anyone every tells you that grace=permission to sin, just lay down and do the "facts" dance:

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
facts.gif


Well, maybe do it somewhat more gently than that... but yeah.
Ha ha ha! I will try that...the scripture that is, probably not the dance!
 
... isn't there a big difference between obedience to receive salvation [wrong] and obedience out of a real true love and respect for the Father?

Yes because one is something you are doing to receive something for you and if by chance you receive it you get the glory for it.

Romans 9:29 tells us "Why? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone". We obey because we believe God not just in Him. Even the devils believe in God (they know He is without a shadow of a doubt) and they KNOW Jesus is Messiah, the Son of the living God, and that He rose from the dead (the power of sin had no hold on Him) and yet they tremble. Some can obey out of duty (sometimes with resentment) others out of fear, but we love Him because He first loved us...even while we were yet sinners Christ died for the ungodly. When His heart becomes our heart we do what is good and right...our motives are always right...because we have been made right by Him faith to faith, glory to glory and only He can get ALL the credit...

So just to heal hearts, let me say that the cross was not about punishment, it was about love...look into the word and see...

Redemption = to redeem (qa’al), to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer, avenge, revenge, ransom

And that is what Jesus did on the cross, He became a ransom for many…It was about love and not the appeasement of wrath….the scriptures say…

Hebrews 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world (not for God was so angry at the world) that He gave His only begotten Son…


Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us (not His wrath) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. This Christ’s death was an action of the love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.


Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath (we are children of “orge” – children of anger, and natural disposition, temper, indignation, agitation – this speaks of our character, not God’s anger at us because of a sense of a need to satisfy His justice), just as the others.


4 But God (now we address His attitude toward us), who IS rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (loved as in past tense – while we were in our sins -notice it says nothing off His vehement hatred or anger at us), 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us (not wrath toward us)in Christ Jesus.

When we realize this and then walk in that truth we cannot help but do as He says (but even when we fall, a moment here and a moment there...like you love your children only many times more...He sets us up, pats us off, sometimes gives us a good well deserved spanking, sometimes lets us come to the end of our self...but as our Daddy, our Abba, He is there with us for us and in us to lead us to safety...of this we can be fully assured.

Besides think on this...if it could be done by keeping the 10 commandments and we are able, then why would we have needed a Savior, right?

Bless you Lynne thanks for bringing this out...also feel free to disagree, I certainly am not above learning and growing.

In that Love

brother Paul
 
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Yes because one is something you are doing to receive something for you and if by chance you receive it you get the glory for it.

Romans 9:29 tells us "Why? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone". We obey because we believe God not just in Him. Even the devils believe in God (they know He is without a shadow of a doubt) and they KNOW Jesus is Messiah, the Son of the living God, and that He rose from the dead (the power of sin had no hold on Him) and yet they tremble. Some can obey out of duty (sometimes with resentment) others out of fear, but we love Him because He first loved us...even while we were yet sinners Christ died for the ungodly. When His heart becomes our heart we do what is good and right...our motives are always right...because we have been made right by Him faith to faith, glory to glory and only He can get ALL the credit...

So just to heal hearts, let me say that the cross was not about punishment, it was about love...look into the word and see...

Redemption = to redeem (qa’al), to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer, avenge, revenge, ransom

And that is what Jesus did on the cross, He became a ransom for many…It was about love and not the appeasement of wrath….the scriptures say…

Hebrews 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world (not for God was so angry at the world) that He gave His only begotten Son…


Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us (not His wrath) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. This Christ’s death was an action of the love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.


Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath (we are children of “orge” – children of anger, and natural disposition, temper, indignation, agitation – this speaks of our character, not God’s anger at us because of a sense of a need to satisfy His justice), just as the others.


4 But God (now we address His attitude toward us), who IS rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (loved as in past tense – while we were in our sins -notice it says nothing off His vehement hatred or anger at us), 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us (not wrath toward us)in Christ Jesus.

When we realize this and then walk in that truth we cannot help but do as He says (but even when we fall, a moment here and a moment there...like you love your children only many times more...He sets us up, pats us off, sometimes gives us a good well deserved spanking, sometimes lets us come to the end of our self...but as our Daddy, our Abba, He is there with us for us and in us to lead us to safety...of this we can be fully assured.

Besides think on this...if it could be done by keeping the 10 commandments and we are able, then why would we have needed a Savior, right?

Bless you Lynne thanks for bringing this out...also feel free to disagree, I certainly am not above learning and growing.

In that Love

brother Paul
No disagreements here! Agree completely. Just been bashed over the head for quite awhile about the whole "I'm not under the law I'm under grace" as an excuse to sin by someone close to me. Helps me to hear others believe like me!
God bless you!
 
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