This is a very important, yet overlooked point regarding chapter 8.
The Book Of ROMANS.....A Systematic Teaching
- Thread starter Major
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YES! Right on target!
Romans 8:12..........
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh."
In other words, we are not to live according to the flesh. When Adam sinned his spirit died to God.
Genesis 2:17.........
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Now we know from the Bible that Adam ate the fruit and live another 960 years. So we then know by that, that what died immediately was his spirit. The body, the flesh became the dominate factor. Man is still dead today spiritually which is exactly why Jesus said that we must be BORN AGAIN! That is called by many as "Regeneration"!
Here, Paul says that We don't owe that old way of living anything. It is not who we are as Christians any longer. In fact, God specifically calls us to abandon that lifestyle and to live in the power of God's Spirit. Christians aren't meant for sin and selfishness any more.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh."
In other words, we are not to live according to the flesh. When Adam sinned his spirit died to God.
Genesis 2:17.........
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Now we know from the Bible that Adam ate the fruit and live another 960 years. So we then know by that, that what died immediately was his spirit. The body, the flesh became the dominate factor. Man is still dead today spiritually which is exactly why Jesus said that we must be BORN AGAIN! That is called by many as "Regeneration"!
Here, Paul says that We don't owe that old way of living anything. It is not who we are as Christians any longer. In fact, God specifically calls us to abandon that lifestyle and to live in the power of God's Spirit. Christians aren't meant for sin and selfishness any more.
Romans 8:13..........
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
Not all Bible teachers or Christian traditions agree about its meaning, making it another example of the importance of context when studying Scripture.
Paul has described living according to the flesh as a life outside of Christ. This is a worldly life of serving self, first and always. Those who live according to the flesh are not Christians. They cannot submit to God's law and cannot please God (Romans 8:7–8).
Now, Paul writes that if you live according to the flesh, you will die. This is the first point of the verse where context is critical. Paul has made it explicitly clear in the prior passage that those who are in Christ cannot, by definition, live according to the flesh. That was not a suggestion that saved believers cannot sin, but a comment about the difference in the spiritual nature of those who are born again. Those who live according to the flesh are the same group as those who are not saved.
Paul seems to mean that anyone who does not put their faith in Christ and change course by the power of the Spirit will die. This can imply some of the earthly consequences of sin, but Paul's main meaning here is a spiritual and eternal death.
Paul's next statement is that if, by the Spirit, you kill off the sinful deeds of the body, you will live. Here, again, context of this letter to the Romans is important. Some presume this to mean that a person who does not succeed in giving up all sin will not achieve eternal life. However, that explanation does not fit with everything else Paul has taught about our justification and having peace with God because of what Christ has done on our behalf (Romans 5:1–11). The following verse will continue to clarify this point and I will go into more detail then.
Rather, this statement means first that those who are in Christ will, by the power of God's Spirit with us, find victory over our sinful desires. We will have greater and greater success in putting them to death.
Then second, it means we will really live, spiritually speaking, on this side of eternity, that we will experience the abundant life that God intends for us by putting to death the sins of our bodies.
Crucially, we should understand that this killing off of our sins is possible only through the power of God's Spirit. It's not something we can achieve on our own.
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
Not all Bible teachers or Christian traditions agree about its meaning, making it another example of the importance of context when studying Scripture.
Paul has described living according to the flesh as a life outside of Christ. This is a worldly life of serving self, first and always. Those who live according to the flesh are not Christians. They cannot submit to God's law and cannot please God (Romans 8:7–8).
Now, Paul writes that if you live according to the flesh, you will die. This is the first point of the verse where context is critical. Paul has made it explicitly clear in the prior passage that those who are in Christ cannot, by definition, live according to the flesh. That was not a suggestion that saved believers cannot sin, but a comment about the difference in the spiritual nature of those who are born again. Those who live according to the flesh are the same group as those who are not saved.
Paul seems to mean that anyone who does not put their faith in Christ and change course by the power of the Spirit will die. This can imply some of the earthly consequences of sin, but Paul's main meaning here is a spiritual and eternal death.
Paul's next statement is that if, by the Spirit, you kill off the sinful deeds of the body, you will live. Here, again, context of this letter to the Romans is important. Some presume this to mean that a person who does not succeed in giving up all sin will not achieve eternal life. However, that explanation does not fit with everything else Paul has taught about our justification and having peace with God because of what Christ has done on our behalf (Romans 5:1–11). The following verse will continue to clarify this point and I will go into more detail then.
Rather, this statement means first that those who are in Christ will, by the power of God's Spirit with us, find victory over our sinful desires. We will have greater and greater success in putting them to death.
Then second, it means we will really live, spiritually speaking, on this side of eternity, that we will experience the abundant life that God intends for us by putting to death the sins of our bodies.
Crucially, we should understand that this killing off of our sins is possible only through the power of God's Spirit. It's not something we can achieve on our own.
Romans 8:14.............
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
That makes perfect....right? God does not drive His sheep.......He leads them.
NO one forces anyone into the will of God. God never forces anyone to love Him!
Those who accept Christ are led by the Holy Spirt and they are in tune with God because they now have a New Nature!
John 15:18...........
"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you."
Several years ago, a young pastor I knew came and talked to me. He said, "Brother, I am having all kinds of trouble at church"!
Of course I asked him....What kind of trouble????
He said, "My church officers and deacons."
To that I asked......Well, what have you be doing to cause such a thing? I was thinking something of the flesh or worse.
He said......."I have been preaching the Bible, just as you do".
I was immediately relieved. I said...Praise the Lord my brother! Then I explained to him that as you continue in your ministry you are going to find out that a lot of your people are not really children of God. They are Christian in name only not actions! Those people will always seek to cause chaos in the church and they will allways fight the authority of the Word of God when it is preached without apology!
You can mark my words......those that you see who are always in the middle of disorder and chaos are not the Children of God!
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
That makes perfect....right? God does not drive His sheep.......He leads them.
NO one forces anyone into the will of God. God never forces anyone to love Him!
Those who accept Christ are led by the Holy Spirt and they are in tune with God because they now have a New Nature!
John 15:18...........
"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you."
Several years ago, a young pastor I knew came and talked to me. He said, "Brother, I am having all kinds of trouble at church"!
Of course I asked him....What kind of trouble????
He said, "My church officers and deacons."
To that I asked......Well, what have you be doing to cause such a thing? I was thinking something of the flesh or worse.
He said......."I have been preaching the Bible, just as you do".
I was immediately relieved. I said...Praise the Lord my brother! Then I explained to him that as you continue in your ministry you are going to find out that a lot of your people are not really children of God. They are Christian in name only not actions! Those people will always seek to cause chaos in the church and they will allways fight the authority of the Word of God when it is preached without apology!
You can mark my words......those that you see who are always in the middle of disorder and chaos are not the Children of God!
Romans 8:15..............
"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
The phrase ABBA Father = "My Daddy".
I do not recommend using that word in reference to God for the obvious reason of the danger of becoming overly familiar with God.
Here, though, Paul assures us that God does not view us as His slaves or even just good servants. He did not free us from slavery to sin simply to add us to His team. He rescued us from sin to make us His children. That involves the Holy Spirit.
God did not give us the spirit of slavery, by giving us the Holy Spirit. Abused slaves often live in fear of their masters, and that is not the relationship God wants from us. No, Paul insists, God gave us the Spirit of adoption as his children. In other words, God legally changed the status of those who come to Him by faith in Christ to sons and daughters.
This is not a distant or strained parent/child relationship, either. This Spirit of adoption, another name for the Holy Spirit, allows us to cry out to God as little children call out to a loving daddy.
"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
The phrase ABBA Father = "My Daddy".
I do not recommend using that word in reference to God for the obvious reason of the danger of becoming overly familiar with God.
Here, though, Paul assures us that God does not view us as His slaves or even just good servants. He did not free us from slavery to sin simply to add us to His team. He rescued us from sin to make us His children. That involves the Holy Spirit.
God did not give us the spirit of slavery, by giving us the Holy Spirit. Abused slaves often live in fear of their masters, and that is not the relationship God wants from us. No, Paul insists, God gave us the Spirit of adoption as his children. In other words, God legally changed the status of those who come to Him by faith in Christ to sons and daughters.
This is not a distant or strained parent/child relationship, either. This Spirit of adoption, another name for the Holy Spirit, allows us to cry out to God as little children call out to a loving daddy.
Romans 8:16...........
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"
In this verse, the communication goes the other way. God communicates from His Spirit to our spirit that we are His children.
His Spirit "bears witness," = keeps communicating to us over and over that we belong in God's family now that we are in Christ. He confirms to us what is true on some deep and unspoken level.
The confidence we carry that we belong to God, not because of our goodness or effort but because of His love for us, comes directly from God's Spirit with us.
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"
In this verse, the communication goes the other way. God communicates from His Spirit to our spirit that we are His children.
His Spirit "bears witness," = keeps communicating to us over and over that we belong in God's family now that we are in Christ. He confirms to us what is true on some deep and unspoken level.
The confidence we carry that we belong to God, not because of our goodness or effort but because of His love for us, comes directly from God's Spirit with us.
Romans 8:17.................
"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
Sadly, it seems to me that most of us are satisfied to merely be saved from hell, to be given a quiet corner of heaven in which to spend eternity not suffering. Of course that means we miss all the opportunities in the here and now.
Instead, God has made each person who trusts in Christ an heir to all the glories of God's kingdom along with God's only "birth son" Jesus (John 3:16).
Of course, such an action is absolutely unnecessary on God's part, and it is absolutely evidence of God's enormous love for us. God has every right to treat us as mere creatures. He is the Creator.
However, in Christ and through the power of His Spirit, He has welcomed us as fully adopted children with full access to His kingdom. There is no greater gift.
Paul seems to include a condition here, but it is a condition all who trust in Christ for their salvation have already met. He writes that we are heirs with Christ "if" we suffer with Christ in order to be glorified with Christ.
The word translated "if" here (eiper) can easily be read as = "if, as is the fact" or "since."
Just as in English, the term does not always imply something unsure; it can connect two related ideas.
In other words, we are heirs with Christ since we suffer—or will suffer—with Him.
What, then, does it mean to suffer with Christ? It may include the idea that Christians can expect to be persecuted for our close identity with Christ (John 15:20).
It may refer to what Paul wrote earlier that to put our faith in Jesus is to be so closely associated with Him that we ourselves die to sin on a spiritual level (Romans 6:5–8).
Or perhaps this suffering is the suffering that Jesus experienced in daily life on a sin-ravaged world, something that every person lives through. Paul will describe this universal "groaning" of existence in verses 22–23. Those in Christ, however, suffer with Him on their way to being glorified with Him once this life has ended. For Christians, suffering in this life is never meaningless (Romans 5:3–5).
It may also mean that when we are on the bed of affliction, it is Christ who is holding our hand, not a nurse or doctor!
It the hospital when in town, there is a huge mural painted on the wall as you go into the surgery room. It is of a person on the table, a doctor with a scapple in his hand, and a representation of Jesus Christ standing behind the surgeon with His hand on the doctors hand!!!
"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
Sadly, it seems to me that most of us are satisfied to merely be saved from hell, to be given a quiet corner of heaven in which to spend eternity not suffering. Of course that means we miss all the opportunities in the here and now.
Instead, God has made each person who trusts in Christ an heir to all the glories of God's kingdom along with God's only "birth son" Jesus (John 3:16).
Of course, such an action is absolutely unnecessary on God's part, and it is absolutely evidence of God's enormous love for us. God has every right to treat us as mere creatures. He is the Creator.
However, in Christ and through the power of His Spirit, He has welcomed us as fully adopted children with full access to His kingdom. There is no greater gift.
Paul seems to include a condition here, but it is a condition all who trust in Christ for their salvation have already met. He writes that we are heirs with Christ "if" we suffer with Christ in order to be glorified with Christ.
The word translated "if" here (eiper) can easily be read as = "if, as is the fact" or "since."
Just as in English, the term does not always imply something unsure; it can connect two related ideas.
In other words, we are heirs with Christ since we suffer—or will suffer—with Him.
What, then, does it mean to suffer with Christ? It may include the idea that Christians can expect to be persecuted for our close identity with Christ (John 15:20).
It may refer to what Paul wrote earlier that to put our faith in Jesus is to be so closely associated with Him that we ourselves die to sin on a spiritual level (Romans 6:5–8).
Or perhaps this suffering is the suffering that Jesus experienced in daily life on a sin-ravaged world, something that every person lives through. Paul will describe this universal "groaning" of existence in verses 22–23. Those in Christ, however, suffer with Him on their way to being glorified with Him once this life has ended. For Christians, suffering in this life is never meaningless (Romans 5:3–5).
It may also mean that when we are on the bed of affliction, it is Christ who is holding our hand, not a nurse or doctor!
It the hospital when in town, there is a huge mural painted on the wall as you go into the surgery room. It is of a person on the table, a doctor with a scapple in his hand, and a representation of Jesus Christ standing behind the surgeon with His hand on the doctors hand!!!
Romans 8:18.......
"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
This brings us to a new division of the 8th chapter of Romans.
***********THE NEW CREATION*************
Not only the bodies of believers are to be redeemed, but we are going to see that this entire physical universe, the earth where we live is also to be redeemed! That is the purpose of God.
The old earth will be traded in for a New Earth where there will be no sin, no curse and no death.
As stated, this begins a powerful passage in which Paul discusses living, as a Christian, through the suffering that comes with this life on earth. Some Bible teachers suggest that Paul is referring "only" to suffering caused by persecution for faith in Christ. Based on the full context of the passage, however, there is every reason to understand Paul to include the everyday suffering that comes with living on this sin-stained planet. He will be clear that it is experienced by all creatures (Romans 8:20), but that only those who are in Christ look forward to sharing in the glories of God's kingdom afterwards.
Paul's perspective is that our present sufferings are not even worth holding up in comparison with the glories that will be revealed in us. Some readers might be tempted to hear Paul glossing over the enormous pain, physical and emotional, that comes with human existence. He is not.
Instead, Paul is elevating the much more enormous glory to come. Paul understood pain very deeply.
Second Corinthians 11:23–29 contains a small sampling of his experiences: hunger, thirst, danger, imprisonment, torture, and persecution. And yet, he says all of that suffering cannot compare to the glories that will be revealed at some future time to saved believers as God's heirs with Christ. Truly, those endless glories must be incomprehensibly wonderful, satisfying, and meaningful.
Without Christ, we could never participate in God's glory because of our sin (Romans 3:23). In Christ, as God's fully adopted heirs, we will fully experience His glory forever (Romans 6:23). This verse does not minimize the pain we experience—it simply puts it into an eternal perspective.
"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
This brings us to a new division of the 8th chapter of Romans.
***********THE NEW CREATION*************
Not only the bodies of believers are to be redeemed, but we are going to see that this entire physical universe, the earth where we live is also to be redeemed! That is the purpose of God.
The old earth will be traded in for a New Earth where there will be no sin, no curse and no death.
As stated, this begins a powerful passage in which Paul discusses living, as a Christian, through the suffering that comes with this life on earth. Some Bible teachers suggest that Paul is referring "only" to suffering caused by persecution for faith in Christ. Based on the full context of the passage, however, there is every reason to understand Paul to include the everyday suffering that comes with living on this sin-stained planet. He will be clear that it is experienced by all creatures (Romans 8:20), but that only those who are in Christ look forward to sharing in the glories of God's kingdom afterwards.
Paul's perspective is that our present sufferings are not even worth holding up in comparison with the glories that will be revealed in us. Some readers might be tempted to hear Paul glossing over the enormous pain, physical and emotional, that comes with human existence. He is not.
Instead, Paul is elevating the much more enormous glory to come. Paul understood pain very deeply.
Second Corinthians 11:23–29 contains a small sampling of his experiences: hunger, thirst, danger, imprisonment, torture, and persecution. And yet, he says all of that suffering cannot compare to the glories that will be revealed at some future time to saved believers as God's heirs with Christ. Truly, those endless glories must be incomprehensibly wonderful, satisfying, and meaningful.
Without Christ, we could never participate in God's glory because of our sin (Romans 3:23). In Christ, as God's fully adopted heirs, we will fully experience His glory forever (Romans 6:23). This verse does not minimize the pain we experience—it simply puts it into an eternal perspective.
Romans 8:19............
"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."
What does this mean............"For the Creation watching with outstretched head, is sighing for the revelation of the sons of God".
The world is not waiting for the sunrise of evolutions pipe dream. The pipe dream of evolution will never come true. However, creation is waiting for the "manifestation of the sons of God."
Creation is like a veiled statue today. When the sons of God have removed the outward covering of this flesh, creation also will be unveiled.
Christians are not the only ones who long for the moment when suffering will be replaced by glory. In fact, "the creation" eagerly longs for it, as well. More specifically, the creation waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
This statement is startling in two ways.
#1.
Paul describes creation as experiencing an awareness that something better is coming. By "creation," Paul seems to refer to all God has made, from plants and animals, to other people to the air, water, and sky. And all of it, all of us, are waiting for a moment when everything will finally be made right.
#2.
The other startling idea is that the moment Paul has in mind is when the children of God are "revealed." Of course, Paul has made clear that those in Christ are already the children of God. We accept this about ourselves and each other by faith, although we continue to appear on the surface the same as everyone else.
A moment is coming, though, when those in Christ will be glorified and it will become impossible to deny that we are God's children.
Now the rules of our site do not allow me to elaborate on this, but this right here is a reference to the Rapture of believers.
God's righteousness, and our faith in Him, will be vindicated to the world. Paul is describing a future time when God will make all things right. Paul writes that all of nature is eagerly looking forward to that day. The following verses will explain why that is.
"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."
What does this mean............"For the Creation watching with outstretched head, is sighing for the revelation of the sons of God".
The world is not waiting for the sunrise of evolutions pipe dream. The pipe dream of evolution will never come true. However, creation is waiting for the "manifestation of the sons of God."
Creation is like a veiled statue today. When the sons of God have removed the outward covering of this flesh, creation also will be unveiled.
Christians are not the only ones who long for the moment when suffering will be replaced by glory. In fact, "the creation" eagerly longs for it, as well. More specifically, the creation waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
This statement is startling in two ways.
#1.
Paul describes creation as experiencing an awareness that something better is coming. By "creation," Paul seems to refer to all God has made, from plants and animals, to other people to the air, water, and sky. And all of it, all of us, are waiting for a moment when everything will finally be made right.
#2.
The other startling idea is that the moment Paul has in mind is when the children of God are "revealed." Of course, Paul has made clear that those in Christ are already the children of God. We accept this about ourselves and each other by faith, although we continue to appear on the surface the same as everyone else.
A moment is coming, though, when those in Christ will be glorified and it will become impossible to deny that we are God's children.
Now the rules of our site do not allow me to elaborate on this, but this right here is a reference to the Rapture of believers.
God's righteousness, and our faith in Him, will be vindicated to the world. Paul is describing a future time when God will make all things right. Paul writes that all of nature is eagerly looking forward to that day. The following verses will explain why that is.
Romans 8:20.........
"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"
"VANITY" = Failure. Decay.....Something Perishable.
Creation was made subject to "vanity" because God wanted to. The curse of sin affected humanity and the physical world.
The creation, meaning all God has made, is suffering. It is subject to something described using the Greek word mataiotēti.
This term implies something warped, perverse, sickly, weak, or false. This futility—or "frustration"—came long ago, when sin entered into the world.
God did not create the world this way, and creation itself did not choose this. The trees and streams and animals and sky did not choose an existence of frustration. Rather, God subjected creation to frustration in response to Adam's sin in the garden of Eden.
God did not design creation to suffer. That hardship came after all was meaningful and "very good." This warped, struggling existence came about when God cursed all of creation in response to human sin (Genesis 3:14, 17–19).
The words "in hope" that end the verse belong to a phrase in the following verse.
"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"
"VANITY" = Failure. Decay.....Something Perishable.
Creation was made subject to "vanity" because God wanted to. The curse of sin affected humanity and the physical world.
The creation, meaning all God has made, is suffering. It is subject to something described using the Greek word mataiotēti.
This term implies something warped, perverse, sickly, weak, or false. This futility—or "frustration"—came long ago, when sin entered into the world.
God did not create the world this way, and creation itself did not choose this. The trees and streams and animals and sky did not choose an existence of frustration. Rather, God subjected creation to frustration in response to Adam's sin in the garden of Eden.
God did not design creation to suffer. That hardship came after all was meaningful and "very good." This warped, struggling existence came about when God cursed all of creation in response to human sin (Genesis 3:14, 17–19).
The words "in hope" that end the verse belong to a phrase in the following verse.
Romans 8:21...........
"Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
Man is in a dying body. We actually begin to die when we are born.
Creation is like that also.
Now Paul concludes his thought from the previous verse. God didn't subject creation to decay, to frustration, out of pettiness or revenge.
Instead, He acted in hope of—here meaning "looking forward to"—the reversal of His curses. He never intended for His creation to experience this futility and death and corruption forever. It won't.
Praise God that the day is coming when God will reveal His children in the glory He has for us, and then creation will be set free from its bondage. Paul says that creation itself will obtain the same freedom that those in Christ will receive when they are glorified. All suffering will end. All will be made right !
"Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
Man is in a dying body. We actually begin to die when we are born.
Creation is like that also.
Now Paul concludes his thought from the previous verse. God didn't subject creation to decay, to frustration, out of pettiness or revenge.
Instead, He acted in hope of—here meaning "looking forward to"—the reversal of His curses. He never intended for His creation to experience this futility and death and corruption forever. It won't.
Praise God that the day is coming when God will reveal His children in the glory He has for us, and then creation will be set free from its bondage. Paul says that creation itself will obtain the same freedom that those in Christ will receive when they are glorified. All suffering will end. All will be made right !
Romans 8:22.............
"For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now."
Because of the fall of man, every part of God’s creation was subjected to a curse. Under that curse, all creation groans: the ground was cursed for Adam’s sake, thorns and thistles and noxious weeds began to grow, all of Eve’s daughters have labored painfully in childbirth, and death entered the world.
Right now the entire creation reflects the curse of sin. All creation “groans”; that is, all created things suffer a common misery, being in a state of pain and disorder. The “groaning” is intense, as Paul’s simile shows: “as in the pains of childbirth.” When at last sin is removed from the children of God, all of nature will burst forth in glory. The full work of redemption includes the reversal of the curse.
God promises a magnificent future for the believer, complete with a brand-new, glorified body. At present, we only have a taste of our glorious future, through the presence of the Holy Spirit who is within us. He is the down payment, or deposit, guaranteeing our full adoption as God’s children and the release of our bodies from sin and suffering.
In the meantime, all creation groans—believers, along with the rest of the fallen universe, travail as a woman in childbirth, longing to be clothed in their heavenly bodies. Significantly, the pain of childbirth is not endured without the hope of new life. Paul, knowing that hope transforms suffering, gave believers this inspiring metaphor. Just as a woman labors through the agony of birth pangs with the hope of new life, all creation groans as it waits for the promise of full and final restoration and redemption. We may suffer now, but our heavenly reward is worth the wait.
"For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now."
Because of the fall of man, every part of God’s creation was subjected to a curse. Under that curse, all creation groans: the ground was cursed for Adam’s sake, thorns and thistles and noxious weeds began to grow, all of Eve’s daughters have labored painfully in childbirth, and death entered the world.
Right now the entire creation reflects the curse of sin. All creation “groans”; that is, all created things suffer a common misery, being in a state of pain and disorder. The “groaning” is intense, as Paul’s simile shows: “as in the pains of childbirth.” When at last sin is removed from the children of God, all of nature will burst forth in glory. The full work of redemption includes the reversal of the curse.
God promises a magnificent future for the believer, complete with a brand-new, glorified body. At present, we only have a taste of our glorious future, through the presence of the Holy Spirit who is within us. He is the down payment, or deposit, guaranteeing our full adoption as God’s children and the release of our bodies from sin and suffering.
In the meantime, all creation groans—believers, along with the rest of the fallen universe, travail as a woman in childbirth, longing to be clothed in their heavenly bodies. Significantly, the pain of childbirth is not endured without the hope of new life. Paul, knowing that hope transforms suffering, gave believers this inspiring metaphor. Just as a woman labors through the agony of birth pangs with the hope of new life, all creation groans as it waits for the promise of full and final restoration and redemption. We may suffer now, but our heavenly reward is worth the wait.
Romans 8:23.......................
"And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."
********************** THE NEW BODY ***********************
This Scripture is devastating to those who say that a Christian is a person who is always happy and smiling all the time.
They say that a Christian should be a cross between a Chesire cat and a door to door salesman. Grinning, and smiling and always happy. REALLY????? Is that YOU??? It is sure not ME!
We groan within our bodies! Sometimes we yell out loud!
We all show our frustrations.
I have experienced a lot of things in my life. I have had a lot of challenges and some of them were actually life and death at the time.
However, the greatest and hardest of them all is growing old. Aging is a slow process and it crepes up on you and before you even realize it, BOOM!
Paul uses the word....."groaning," from the root word sustenazo, applied to the sounds made by a woman in labor, about to deliver a baby as she endures the waves of pain that come and go.
The picture Paul paints here ties together several things he has written in Romans 8 so far. He has said that God has given us in the Holy Spirit what he called the "Spirit of adoption" (Romans 8:15). We have already been adopted and have become the full children of God through faith in Christ. So what are we waiting for if the adoption is complete?
Paul has written about a disconnect between our spirits and our bodies: "…although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). It's true that we are fully God's children right now through faith in Christ, but we have yet to meet our Father in person. We have been freed from the eternal penalty for sin, but our bodies continue to experience the temporary consequence of sin: death. We are dying, and these bodies will die.
So what are we adopted children of God waiting for? We're waiting for our bodies to be redeemed after we die physically and are then resurrected as Christ was. Or as someone put it: Our adoption is complete; we're just waiting for our father to come and pick us up so that we can be with Him.
"And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."
********************** THE NEW BODY ***********************
This Scripture is devastating to those who say that a Christian is a person who is always happy and smiling all the time.
They say that a Christian should be a cross between a Chesire cat and a door to door salesman. Grinning, and smiling and always happy. REALLY????? Is that YOU??? It is sure not ME!
We groan within our bodies! Sometimes we yell out loud!
We all show our frustrations.
I have experienced a lot of things in my life. I have had a lot of challenges and some of them were actually life and death at the time.
However, the greatest and hardest of them all is growing old. Aging is a slow process and it crepes up on you and before you even realize it, BOOM!
Paul uses the word....."groaning," from the root word sustenazo, applied to the sounds made by a woman in labor, about to deliver a baby as she endures the waves of pain that come and go.
The picture Paul paints here ties together several things he has written in Romans 8 so far. He has said that God has given us in the Holy Spirit what he called the "Spirit of adoption" (Romans 8:15). We have already been adopted and have become the full children of God through faith in Christ. So what are we waiting for if the adoption is complete?
Paul has written about a disconnect between our spirits and our bodies: "…although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). It's true that we are fully God's children right now through faith in Christ, but we have yet to meet our Father in person. We have been freed from the eternal penalty for sin, but our bodies continue to experience the temporary consequence of sin: death. We are dying, and these bodies will die.
So what are we adopted children of God waiting for? We're waiting for our bodies to be redeemed after we die physically and are then resurrected as Christ was. Or as someone put it: Our adoption is complete; we're just waiting for our father to come and pick us up so that we can be with Him.
Romans 8:24.............
"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?'
Someone will say.........."I thought we are saved by Grace"!!!!
We are. However, our faith in the work of Christ for us on the cross and out faith in Him is OUR hope.
The hope of this very thing—resurrection, being with God as His children—is the same hope that brought us to faith in Christ in the first place. It's the thing everyone longs for, but nobody can reach on our own. Sin keeps us from God's eternal glory, but God gives it to us as a gift (Romans 6:23).
We're not home, yet, though. This gift is guaranteed. Our hope is certain, but it has not materialized. We can't see it. If we could, Paul writes, it would not be hope. The life of a Christian is a life of anticipation.
"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?'
Someone will say.........."I thought we are saved by Grace"!!!!
We are. However, our faith in the work of Christ for us on the cross and out faith in Him is OUR hope.
The hope of this very thing—resurrection, being with God as His children—is the same hope that brought us to faith in Christ in the first place. It's the thing everyone longs for, but nobody can reach on our own. Sin keeps us from God's eternal glory, but God gives it to us as a gift (Romans 6:23).
We're not home, yet, though. This gift is guaranteed. Our hope is certain, but it has not materialized. We can't see it. If we could, Paul writes, it would not be hope. The life of a Christian is a life of anticipation.
Romans 8:25..............
"But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."
You see, Faith Hope and Love are the real parts of the believers life. There would be no hope is all were realized. Someday hope will pass away in reality. In fact, both faith and hope will pass away in the glory which shall be revealed in us. Only LOVE abides.
Our current state, though, is one of longing for that day. For now, we have to suffer through the realities of life and all the consequences of sin on this side of eternity. Our hope is sure, but by definition it has not arrived yet.
To be a Christian in this life means to wait for the best possible reality anyone can imagine, with patience. We can trust our Father to bring it about at just the right time.
"But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."
You see, Faith Hope and Love are the real parts of the believers life. There would be no hope is all were realized. Someday hope will pass away in reality. In fact, both faith and hope will pass away in the glory which shall be revealed in us. Only LOVE abides.
Our current state, though, is one of longing for that day. For now, we have to suffer through the realities of life and all the consequences of sin on this side of eternity. Our hope is sure, but by definition it has not arrived yet.
To be a Christian in this life means to wait for the best possible reality anyone can imagine, with patience. We can trust our Father to bring it about at just the right time.
Romans 8:26................
"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
This passage describes the difference between our future and our present, as Christians. Our future in Christ, as God's children and heirs of His kingdom, is everything we long for. Our present, though, is a life of longing, patient waiting, living in the hope of reality that has not yet arrived. We continue to suffer along with the rest of creation, to groan for the life to come.
How do we live in the meantime? A large part of the answer to that question has to do with the Holy Spirit, given to every Christian when he or she comes to faith in Christ. God gives us His own Spirit as a deposit or down payment on that future we are longing for (Ephesians 1:13–14; 2 Corinthians 1:22).
Through the Spirit, God provides for us in many different ways on this side of eternity. Generally, he helps us in our weakness. Paul is acknowledging here that, even as Christians, we remain weak in and of ourselves. Physically, we remain creatures in fragile bodies with sometimes baffling emotions. Spiritually, we can become weak in our faith and/or in our resistance to sinful desires. As Paul will begin to make clear, however, God's Spirit with us makes all the difference. He continually helps us in and even through our weakness. He steps in. He helps with the burden.
More specifically, Paul writes that we are so weak that at times we do not know what to pray for! We have been given access, in prayer, to our Father God. We feel the need, the longing, for Him, but what do we ask for? The Spirit steps in and carries those unsaid "groanings"—those thoughts and feelings we simply cannot express in human words—to God. He both creates the connection from ourselves to God and provides the content of our communication.
"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
This passage describes the difference between our future and our present, as Christians. Our future in Christ, as God's children and heirs of His kingdom, is everything we long for. Our present, though, is a life of longing, patient waiting, living in the hope of reality that has not yet arrived. We continue to suffer along with the rest of creation, to groan for the life to come.
How do we live in the meantime? A large part of the answer to that question has to do with the Holy Spirit, given to every Christian when he or she comes to faith in Christ. God gives us His own Spirit as a deposit or down payment on that future we are longing for (Ephesians 1:13–14; 2 Corinthians 1:22).
Through the Spirit, God provides for us in many different ways on this side of eternity. Generally, he helps us in our weakness. Paul is acknowledging here that, even as Christians, we remain weak in and of ourselves. Physically, we remain creatures in fragile bodies with sometimes baffling emotions. Spiritually, we can become weak in our faith and/or in our resistance to sinful desires. As Paul will begin to make clear, however, God's Spirit with us makes all the difference. He continually helps us in and even through our weakness. He steps in. He helps with the burden.
More specifically, Paul writes that we are so weak that at times we do not know what to pray for! We have been given access, in prayer, to our Father God. We feel the need, the longing, for Him, but what do we ask for? The Spirit steps in and carries those unsaid "groanings"—those thoughts and feelings we simply cannot express in human words—to God. He both creates the connection from ourselves to God and provides the content of our communication.
Romans 8:27...........
"And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."
Now, if I go to God in prayer and say............"OK, look Lord, I want YOU to do it this way"!---Which by the way is what most of us do when we pray, and I can promise you that this is why YOUR prayers are not answered!
May I suggest another way ........"Lord, I dont know what to ask for, I dont even know what to say to you except theat I love you and I know that you saved me and have forgiven me. I am coming to you as Your child and I ask you that I will be able to accept you perfect will for me!"
Then the Holy Spirit of God will then make intercession for you and HE will take the right things you ask for to the Father!
"And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."
Now, if I go to God in prayer and say............"OK, look Lord, I want YOU to do it this way"!---Which by the way is what most of us do when we pray, and I can promise you that this is why YOUR prayers are not answered!
May I suggest another way ........"Lord, I dont know what to ask for, I dont even know what to say to you except theat I love you and I know that you saved me and have forgiven me. I am coming to you as Your child and I ask you that I will be able to accept you perfect will for me!"
Then the Holy Spirit of God will then make intercession for you and HE will take the right things you ask for to the Father!
Romans 8:28..............
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
Maybe one of the most quoted Scriptures in all of the Bible is this one! It is extremely popular, often mis-applied, and even controversial.
That is in no small part due to how easy it is to take this verse out of the context of Romans 8. Stripping these words of their context destroys the essence of what Scripture is saying. It is also possible to interpret the verse correctly, and still misuse it to dismiss the genuine pain and suffering of another person.
The CONTEXT that Paul has been writing about is that We wait in the sure hope of the day our bodies will be resurrected and we will share in God's glory (Romans 8:24–25).
To that he says ....What about all the hard things that come along while we are waiting?
"WE KNOW" = Common knowledge. It is what the Holy Spirit makes real to us.
Charles Spurgeon once said..........."I do not need someone to tell me what honey tastes like. I know what it tastes like!"
"FOR THOSE WHO LOVE GOD" = Those who have trusted the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.
This is not speaking to RELIGIONISTS. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Muslims, or Hindus or any religion. It is specific to born again believers in Christ!
"ALL THINGS" = Good, bad, bright, dark, sweet, sour, soft, hard easy, happy, sad, wealth, poverty, health, sickness, calm or storm.
ALL THINGS!
ARE WORKING TOGETHER FOR GOOD" = Cause and effect means that there are NO accidents. There are NO coincidences! There is NO such thing as Luck!
"those who are called according to His purpose." = In short, that means the promise is for Christians: for saved believers, who have placed their trust in Jesus Christ (John 3:16–18; 14:6; Romans 3:26). No matter our feelings on a given day, loving God is part of what it means to live in Christ. That's who we are. Each of us is also called to fulfill God's purposes.
In other words, this verse cannot rightly be applied to non-Christians. Those who reject God do not express their love for God by coming to Him through faith in Jesus. For those who die without Christ, things will not have worked out for the better; they will have rejected the opportunity to take advantage of this promise (John 3:36).
What is the promise? That, for those who are saved, all things will indeed work together for good. "All things" should be taken to mean each and every circumstance one might experience, even pain or suffering. "Work," or "work together," must be understood in light of God taking action in the world. He is the one who causes all things to work together or, perhaps, works in and through all circumstances toward a specific end. What is that end? "Good."
The word "good" does not necessarily mean happy or painless or financially successful or our idea of the best possible outcome on any given day. God's ultimate good for us is to glorify us in eternity (Revelation 21:1–4). Beyond that, God works in and through us toward an ultimate good that serves His purpose for the universe.
The comfort of the verse is that nothing in this life of waiting and suffering is wasted. It is all meaningful for those in Christ, even if that doesn't diminish our pain in the moment.
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
Maybe one of the most quoted Scriptures in all of the Bible is this one! It is extremely popular, often mis-applied, and even controversial.
That is in no small part due to how easy it is to take this verse out of the context of Romans 8. Stripping these words of their context destroys the essence of what Scripture is saying. It is also possible to interpret the verse correctly, and still misuse it to dismiss the genuine pain and suffering of another person.
The CONTEXT that Paul has been writing about is that We wait in the sure hope of the day our bodies will be resurrected and we will share in God's glory (Romans 8:24–25).
To that he says ....What about all the hard things that come along while we are waiting?
"WE KNOW" = Common knowledge. It is what the Holy Spirit makes real to us.
Charles Spurgeon once said..........."I do not need someone to tell me what honey tastes like. I know what it tastes like!"
"FOR THOSE WHO LOVE GOD" = Those who have trusted the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.
This is not speaking to RELIGIONISTS. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Muslims, or Hindus or any religion. It is specific to born again believers in Christ!
"ALL THINGS" = Good, bad, bright, dark, sweet, sour, soft, hard easy, happy, sad, wealth, poverty, health, sickness, calm or storm.
ALL THINGS!
ARE WORKING TOGETHER FOR GOOD" = Cause and effect means that there are NO accidents. There are NO coincidences! There is NO such thing as Luck!
"those who are called according to His purpose." = In short, that means the promise is for Christians: for saved believers, who have placed their trust in Jesus Christ (John 3:16–18; 14:6; Romans 3:26). No matter our feelings on a given day, loving God is part of what it means to live in Christ. That's who we are. Each of us is also called to fulfill God's purposes.
In other words, this verse cannot rightly be applied to non-Christians. Those who reject God do not express their love for God by coming to Him through faith in Jesus. For those who die without Christ, things will not have worked out for the better; they will have rejected the opportunity to take advantage of this promise (John 3:36).
What is the promise? That, for those who are saved, all things will indeed work together for good. "All things" should be taken to mean each and every circumstance one might experience, even pain or suffering. "Work," or "work together," must be understood in light of God taking action in the world. He is the one who causes all things to work together or, perhaps, works in and through all circumstances toward a specific end. What is that end? "Good."
The word "good" does not necessarily mean happy or painless or financially successful or our idea of the best possible outcome on any given day. God's ultimate good for us is to glorify us in eternity (Revelation 21:1–4). Beyond that, God works in and through us toward an ultimate good that serves His purpose for the universe.
The comfort of the verse is that nothing in this life of waiting and suffering is wasted. It is all meaningful for those in Christ, even if that doesn't diminish our pain in the moment.
Romans 8:29-30.............
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
"FOR" refers back to verse #28. Paul is reminding us that he is not talking about anyone being elected to be lost, but he is speaking of the CALLED, the ones predestined. Predestination never has any reference to the lost. You will never find it used in connection with them.
Predestination simply means that when God saves you, He is going to see you through to heaven. There is a Biblical formula here at work...
#1. God knowing is Foreknowledge. If the God of Creation does not have any foreknowledge of tomorrow, then He would not be God.
#2. Whomever God knows will be saved are the one Predestined to be saved.
#3. Those who are Predestined are the ones God Calls.
#4. Those who are CALLED are the ones who come to Christ and they are the one who are Justified.
#5. The Justified then are the ones who will be Sanctified.
#6. Then in the end, those are the ones who will be Glorified!
In other words, YOU did not seek God. YOU did not go looking for Him. YOU did not stumble into a relationship with Him!
This is without a doubt the most contentious and controversial and ideas in all of theology: that of predestination.
Now, I wish I could go into more detail but the rules of the forum will not allow it. Another reason is that very, very few of you actually understand it, BUT you will argue about it even though YOU can not explain it yourself. I must admit that I as well struggel to explain it.
I will say however that The word "foreknew" means that God, in some way or sense, knew each Christian before we knew Him which we can not explain neither can we understand.
Ephesians 1:4..........
"He chose us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him."
The bottom line of this particular verse is that we can stand secure. We can know, as those now in Christ, that God's purpose for us has always been that we should become like Christ. God had scheduled our entry into His family long before we were ever born. If God knew about us before we were born, and arranged for our salvation, He certainly knows about our trials and sufferings now, and what lies ahead. That should provide us with great comfort as we wait to be with our Father forever.
Living in Florida I see lots of lakes, creeks and swamps and one thing that they all have is turtles. Now allow me to use TEN turtles as an illustration. You walk by a pond and there on the bank lay TEN turtles.. You go up to them and say... "I would like to teach you to fly"!
NINE of the turtles say NO. We like it down here in the mud and dirt and we are not interested!
ONE says, YES. I want to learn to fly! THAT my friends is the one which is called!
Now, that has nothing to do with the other NINE. They are turtles because they are turtles. They did not want to fly because they like being a turtle in the mud. The lost man is lost because they are without Christ and they like the sin that they are in. NO ONE has ever been forced to be lost and NO ONE has ever been forced to reject Christ!
Predestination does not affect free will choices!!!
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
"FOR" refers back to verse #28. Paul is reminding us that he is not talking about anyone being elected to be lost, but he is speaking of the CALLED, the ones predestined. Predestination never has any reference to the lost. You will never find it used in connection with them.
Predestination simply means that when God saves you, He is going to see you through to heaven. There is a Biblical formula here at work...
#1. God knowing is Foreknowledge. If the God of Creation does not have any foreknowledge of tomorrow, then He would not be God.
#2. Whomever God knows will be saved are the one Predestined to be saved.
#3. Those who are Predestined are the ones God Calls.
#4. Those who are CALLED are the ones who come to Christ and they are the one who are Justified.
#5. The Justified then are the ones who will be Sanctified.
#6. Then in the end, those are the ones who will be Glorified!
In other words, YOU did not seek God. YOU did not go looking for Him. YOU did not stumble into a relationship with Him!
This is without a doubt the most contentious and controversial and ideas in all of theology: that of predestination.
Now, I wish I could go into more detail but the rules of the forum will not allow it. Another reason is that very, very few of you actually understand it, BUT you will argue about it even though YOU can not explain it yourself. I must admit that I as well struggel to explain it.
I will say however that The word "foreknew" means that God, in some way or sense, knew each Christian before we knew Him which we can not explain neither can we understand.
Ephesians 1:4..........
"He chose us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him."
The bottom line of this particular verse is that we can stand secure. We can know, as those now in Christ, that God's purpose for us has always been that we should become like Christ. God had scheduled our entry into His family long before we were ever born. If God knew about us before we were born, and arranged for our salvation, He certainly knows about our trials and sufferings now, and what lies ahead. That should provide us with great comfort as we wait to be with our Father forever.
Living in Florida I see lots of lakes, creeks and swamps and one thing that they all have is turtles. Now allow me to use TEN turtles as an illustration. You walk by a pond and there on the bank lay TEN turtles.. You go up to them and say... "I would like to teach you to fly"!
NINE of the turtles say NO. We like it down here in the mud and dirt and we are not interested!
ONE says, YES. I want to learn to fly! THAT my friends is the one which is called!
Now, that has nothing to do with the other NINE. They are turtles because they are turtles. They did not want to fly because they like being a turtle in the mud. The lost man is lost because they are without Christ and they like the sin that they are in. NO ONE has ever been forced to be lost and NO ONE has ever been forced to reject Christ!
Predestination does not affect free will choices!!!
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