The direction of CCM music

[Major]

On the other hand, if you are coming from the pagan side of things, it could help lead one in the right direction.
Problem is, it is mostly ‘Christians’ attending the CCM concerts.

I have heard that one as well. The problem is IMHO......"Compromise".

2 Tim. 3:5-6.......
“Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts.”

I did a lot of work on this many years ago when the church wanted go in that direction. What I was able to find out was that CCM always has a backbeat rhythm, whether loud or soft. Emphasis on the 2nd and 4th beats or on other unnatural beats. Listen carefully for the beat. Test it by letting your body respond to the rhythm. Does it make you feel like dancing or jigging? If it does, it’s the backbeat rhythm. That dance feeling is what makes backbeat music fleshly. It is the beat that activates our fleshly lusts regardless of the lyrics.

Remember what Jesus said in John 4:24; .........
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

 

[Skipper]

But that right there is the "Rub".

It is my personal opinion but it seems to me that Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) is a modern golden calf. Christian words are mixed with pagan music and used in worship. Few people understand the dangers of this practice and we reap some very destructive results.

The American philosopher Henry David Thoreau (19th century) wrote ........
“Music can be intoxicating. Such apparently slight causes destroyed Greece and Rome, and will destroy England and America.”

“Plato," when he writes The Republic, spends one paragraph on economics; he spends forty pages on music.

What pagan music are you referring to?

Edit: I think you answered this in the post right above mine.

 

[Skipper]

I have heard that one as well. The problem is IMHO......"Compromise".

2 Tim. 3:5-6.......
“Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts.”

I did a lot of work on this many years ago when the church wanted go in that direction. What I was able to find out was that CCM always has a backbeat rhythm, whether loud or soft. Emphasis on the 2nd and 4th beats or on other unnatural beats. Listen carefully for the beat. Test it by letting your body respond to the rhythm. Does it make you feel like dancing or jigging? If it does, it’s the backbeat rhythm. That dance feeling is what makes backbeat music fleshly. It is the beat that activates our fleshly lusts regardless of the lyrics.

Remember what Jesus said in John 4:24; .........
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

So to be clear, you’re against dancing? Dancing is mentioned many times in the Bible as a means of celebration.

 

[Siloam]

I know that many songs on Christian radio channels are quite man centered. Sometimes it is as if we are saying that God is only good for the nice things He directs our way rather than God's greatness being His fundamental nature irrespective of His dealing with us.

But, many beloved traditional songs and hymns are questionable if one stops to analyze their message.

Consider the hymn "There Shall Be Showers of Blessing" which was a favorite at the first church I went to after accepting Christ:

According to the song, we need to be blessed with a shower of blessings, we pray and plead for those showers of blessings, but God is apparently withholding those blessings and only provide us with little drops of mercy.

 

[Major]

So to be clear, you’re against dancing? Dancing is mentioned many times in the Bible as a means of celebration.

Well. That is a little complicated. The dancing you are referring to was more in celebration and the excitement of worship. You see, the dancing I would be talking about is very different. As an old pastor, I have talked with and helped many couples through marriage situations.
Many, many.......began with an innocent double date with another couple. Dinning, a little alcohol and "close slow" dancing lead to a relationship that should never have taken place.

So yes.......I would say that "Close, slow" dancing between two adults opens the door to something that neither should be involved in when married to someone else.

 

[Decoder]

I have heard that one as well. The problem is IMHO......"Compromise".

2 Tim. 3:5-6.......
“Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts.”

I did a lot of work on this many years ago when the church wanted go in that direction. What I was able to find out was that CCM always has a backbeat rhythm, whether loud or soft. Emphasis on the 2nd and 4th beats or on other unnatural beats. Listen carefully for the beat. Test it by letting your body respond to the rhythm. Does it make you feel like dancing or jigging? If it does, it’s the backbeat rhythm. That dance feeling is what makes backbeat music fleshly. It is the beat that activates our fleshly lusts regardless of the lyrics.

Remember what Jesus said in John 4:24; .........
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

Another factor (musically) is upbeat vs downbeat. Upbeat is above 60bpm. A couple good modern downbeat songs are "As We Wait" by St. James (although I don't recommend the direct appeal to the Spirit in the lyrics), and 'The Power of Your Love' by Hillsong (although there are up-tempo versions that defeat the beauty of this song). With downbeat music, there is a great opp for the song to 'come up on you from behind' which is a very powerful experience. You don't get this with upbeat music, instead feeling drained as you leave it.

 

[Major]

What pagan music are you referring to?

Edit: I think you answered this in the post right above mine.

Skipper........I can only speak for ME. Everyone is free to sing what they want and listen to what they want.
I am not judging anyone or putting anyone down whatsoever.

This area is just something that my church went through 25 years ago when the younger group wanted to transition to CCM. When it was tried, the older group rebelled completely. It was at that point I worked on trying to find out WHY and could it be worked out. The more I learned the more I realized that it could not be done.

Personally, I like new things better than old things in many cases. I stay at the cutting edge of technology, for example. I buy new TV's, New cars and New phones and so on. But when it comes to my “religion,” I do like it old for the simple fact that it is old. The newest part of my Bible and my Christian faith is 2,000 years old! Bible truth is not contemporary and it will never be considered cool by the world unless it is distorted. Thus I am committed to the old Bible and the old Paths that are taught therein.

Now with just a little study and searching, you will find that the accepted understanding of the CCM philosophy is something like this......
"It puts no difference between the holy and the profane. The argument will be....“All music is holy,” or that it boasts that nothing is profane. All dress styles are holy; nothing is profane. God is the God of everything.

I guess I should have used the word "Worldly" instead of pagan. Worldly music is music that sounds like the music used by the world for sinful activities.

I hope that you are not offended by what I am going to say because that is not my intention. This is simply MY personal opinion.

John defined the world in 1 John 2:16 as .........
“the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life”.

IMPO then, Music that is characterized by these things is worldly music, and that is certainly true for blues, jazz, rock, rap, reggae, and other forms of modern dance music. This type of music has an intimate association with immorality, drunkenness, drug abuse, gambling, prostitution, and other evils, and it is impossible to disconnect the music from this association. “Sex, drugs, and rock & roll” is not just a popular saying; it is a true saying because “sex, drugs, and rock & roll” go together like peas in a pod.

Now that being the case for me.........I must then say what my grandfather always told me.......
"If, IF it walks like a duck, and swims like a duck, and quakes like a duck......then it is a duck no matter what it says it is"!

 

[Skipper]

Well. That is a little complicated. The dancing you are referring to was more in celebration and the excitement of worship. You see, the dancing I would be talking about is very different. As an old pastor, I have talked with and helped many couples through marriage situations.
Many, many.......began with an innocent double date with another couple. Dinning, a little alcohol and "close slow" dancing lead to a relationship that should never have taken place.

So yes.......I would say that "Close, slow" dancing between two adults opens the door to something that neither should be involved in when married to someone else.

I wholeheartedly agree about the type of dancing making all the difference. I guess I don’t understand the connection between the type of music and the inappropriateness of the dance. I’ve never witnessed people listening to worship music and grinding up on each other because they got lost in the beat.

I think you’re saying the beat can drive certain impulses to dance in an inappropriate way but I think the issue wouldn’t be with the music but with the choice to dance in that way. That and an apparent lack of volitional control and discernment if one chooses to dance inappropriately to worship music.

But again, I think you’re saying, and I may be wrong, that it would be better to avoid such songs altogether if they have a beat that may lead you into thinking inappropriately/sexually/seductively/etc.

EDIT: we keep cross posting! Apologies for posting this as you posted your above response.

 

[Decoder]

It would be great if churches spread out music selection over the centuries. And put the date with each song. It helps to know that other believers over history have been in similar situations. I would personally not want to have lived during the Plague, or the Little Ice Age, or when half of Europe had Islamic armies in control of it.

 

[Major]

I wholeheartedly agree about the type of dancing making all the difference. I guess I don’t understand the connection between the type of music and the inappropriateness of the dance. I’ve never witnessed people listening to worship music and grinding up on each other because they got lost in the beat.

I think you’re saying the beat can drive certain impulses to dance in an inappropriate way but I think the issue wouldn’t be with the music but with the choice to dance in that way. That and an apparent lack of volitional control and discernment if one chooses to dance inappropriately to worship music.

But again, I think you’re saying, and I may be wrong, that it would be better to avoid such songs altogether if they have a beat that may lead you into thinking inappropriately/sexually/seductively/etc.

EDIT: we keep cross posting! Apologies for posting this as you posted your above response.

No problem Skipper. I appreciate your posts and I hope you understand where I am coming from and it appears that you do.

If......we understand that "worldly" music is the basis for the beat and rhythm that drives people to dance in an inappropriate manner, then my comment is......WHY bring that into the church under any name.

That action is then "compromise".

Example: Now the Catholic church down the road from my church has an October fest every year. In that weekend they sell Beer for $1.00 a mug in the name of the Lord! When members stagger out the door drunk, hit a child on a bike and go to jail............
Did the church just bring the world into God's house?????

 

[Lanolin]

There is a rich heritage of biblical music starting from when David first played his harp and the psalms were collected.

But even further back Moses had a new song, Miriam was playing her tambourine, and even Mary had her own song. 'The Magnificat' as it's called.

The Lord's prayer and the beatitudes have been set to music. Though Jesus himself wasn't known for being particularly musical, but who knows he could have made some wooden musical instruments, being a carpenter.

I like musicals. I know they can be cheesy...but 'Any dream will do' from Joseph's technicolour dreamcoat was catchy even if it didn't make much sense lyrically. (Why ANY dream? Wasn't there specific dreams that Joseph interpreted?)

Though the song I like best isn't that one it's Jacob! Jacob & Sons.

CCM to me lacks this storytelling. To me, the CCM songs are rather bland. They are what plays when there's screenshots of sunsets and paths through the woods and scenic landscapes with no people in them..and maybe an empty cross (the blood is absent, it looks perfect)

 

[bobinfaith]

It would be great if churches spread out music selection over the centuries. And put the date with each song. It helps to know that other believers over history have been in similar situations. I would personally not want to have lived during the Plague, or the Little Ice Age, or when half of Europe had Islamic armies in control of it.

Hello Decoder;

Yes it would be great. Chances are I could have this conversation with a young CCM leader who would politely listen, and then go about their way claiming what "the Lord will have them do," emphasizing modern CCM during their worship services and praise events.

It seems the longevity of the former and current "music ministers (hymn, traditional worship)" doesn't sink in with younger CCM leaders because of youth and many other factors.

I agree that including the dates (and copyright dates) for each song is good history for the church. It's incredible how a Christian song over 100 years old is still being lifted up during a worship service (Timeless!) instead of receiving a platinum award for sales.

We have to keep in mind many of today's recording CCM musicians choose this genre because it is "market force" driven and "good business." They are not saved, not driven to discipleship, Bible study or being a servant for Christ. But their 100% is spent in the studio cranking out the hits, grueling concert schedules...good business. But this is where many praise and worship teams in churches today get their ideas and for some, influence from many of today's recording CCM artists.

Thank God for the praise and worship musicians who are God first and servants for Christ. Example, the late Rich Mullins was a disciple for Christ, taught English at a Korean seminary besides being a gifted musician.

His paychecks from his musical recordings and concerts were given to the church he attended and would receive a portion for his personal living. In my understanding this was his agreement.

There was some question regarding his faith between Protestantism and Catholicism but it was my understanding he loved and followed Christ.

In 1997 he died in a horrible car accident.

Regardless, in my many years in the music ministry we learned songs including Rich Mullins as we researched and trusted each song being backed by Scripture. Since 1974 we rarely received hands clapping at the end of a song or dancing in the aisles. We did receive hands raised, smiles, tears and altar calls.

Thank you for sharing The direction of CCM music, Decoder. I enjoyed reading the thoughts of others.

 

[forgiven61]

if you are coming from the pagan side of things, it could help lead one in the right direction.

its the anointing that destroys the yoke. music is great but placing more emphasis on music than preaching . i see this trend in many churches . the church has a better band than most rock groups. i am not against c c m but i am not for replacing the hymns with all C C M . there are groups i respect casting crowns for one . why do we feel the need to jazz it up. instead of allowing the spirit to move .

i know this is not popular

 

[crossnote]

its the anointing that destroys the yoke. music is great but placing more emphasis on music than preaching .

You know, that's interesting especially when you consider our youth who, for years have been preached to through the lyrics in their rock music,
Ironically, if they sense someone who cares for their soul, share the Gospel with them, they are quick to retort, "Don't preach to me bro".

 

[Oblio]

I don't often hear new music that I like. I like people like Andy Park, Kevin Prosch, Brian Doerksen, old people music, I guess.

 

[crossnote]

I don't often hear new music that I like. I like people like Andy Park, Kevin Prosch, Brian Doerksen, old people music, I guess.

Never heard of any one of them. Either I am too old or not young enough lol.

 

[Lanolin]

I recall reading a bio of Keith Green who died in a plane accident leaving behind wife and children.
I think his songs were heartfelt. He had difficulty when people starting idolising him as a musician tho.

 

[crossnote]

I recall reading a bio of Keith Green who died in a plane accident leaving behind wife and children.
I think his songs were heartfelt. He had difficulty when people starting idolising him as a musician tho.

I saw him once at a concert where he ended up rebuking the crowd for coming to be entertained rather than going out and ministering to the needy. Ironically it was at an amusement park called Knott's Berry Farm.

 

[Oblio]

Never heard of any one of them. Either I am too old or not young enough lol.

How about Carl Tuttle, Eddy Espinosa, Danny Daniels?

 

[Lanolin]

I saw him once at a concert where he ended up rebuking the crowd for coming to be entertained rather than going out and ministering to the needy. Ironically it was at an amusement park called Knott's Berry Farm.

hmm maybe the crowd were needy... they needed to be entertained.
Sometimes theres actually not much to do in some towns and it's really boring. Especially for young people...and then they get in trouble with drugs and alcohol and gangs instead.