The Gospel

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No apology needed. For its important to know what we believe and have Scripture to back it up to make sure we are not in error according to the Word.



Can you explain this a little further for me? These two statements seem somewhat contradictory to each other. And I'm sure it is just me. For i can think of only one passage of Scripture that could back this up.

Thank you so much for all of your time, and consideration

Much love in Christ
Gina

Hello Cturtle,

Let me see, what have I said that could be considered contradictory?

* Firstly that all Scrpture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable to us, that is straight forward, and the subject of 2 Timothy 3:16&17, so that is not the problem. Those verses also tell us in what way Scrpture is profitable, :-

'for doctrine',
'for reproof',
'for correction',
'for instruction in righteousness,'
'That the man of God my be perfect,
through my furnished unto all good works'

That applies to all believers, regardless of the dispensation in which they find themselves.

* The other thing I said in the quote you have raised, is that not all Scripture is about us, and that is true, as all who are acquainted with it's content will know, which I am sure includes you, CT.

** eg., There are those who were under law, for example, whereas we (Gentiles) never were under law, except the law of sin and death along with all born of Adam.

That is all I can say at the moment.
I hope I have been clear.
I n Christ Jesus
Chris
 
'The Everlasting Gospel' (Revelation 14:6)
'The Gospel of the Kingdom' (Matthew 4:23; 9:35; 24:14; Mar. 1:14,15)
'The Gospel of God' (Rom.1:1; 15:16; 2 Cor. 11:7; 1 Thess. 2:2,8,9; 1 Pet. 4:17)
'The Gospel of the Grace of God' (Acts 20:24)
'The Gospel of the glory of Christ' (2 Cor. 4:4; 1 Tim.1:11) - Literal translation.

Hello again,

I believe that God desires that we should take note of all of these variations in the 'good news' we have considered in this thread and rejoice in the new light they give.

Thank you for taking part.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Hello Cturtle,

Let me see, what have I said that could be considered contradictory?

* Firstly that all Scrpture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable to us, that is straight forward, and the subject of 2 Timothy 3:16&17, so that is not the problem. Those verses also tell us in what way Scrpture is profitable, :-

'for doctrine',
'for reproof',
'for correction',
'for instruction in righteousness,'
'That the man of God my be perfect,
through my furnished unto all good works'

That applies to all believers, regardless of the dispensation in which they find themselves.

* The other thing I said in the quote you have raised, is that not all Scripture is about us, and that is true, as all who are acquainted with it's content will know, which I am sure includes you, CT.

** eg., There are those who were under law, for example, whereas we (Gentiles) never were under law, except the law of sin and death along with all born of Adam.

That is all I can say at the moment.
I hope I have been clear.
I n Christ Jesus
Chris

I was thinking about this and yes I agree. Not all of Scripture necessarily applies explicitly to us today, but all Scriptures contain truth that we can, and should, apply to our lives today.

In addition to the law that you mentioned, God is not saving men today with a boat made out of wood.
 
I was thinking about this and yes I agree. Not all of Scripture necessarily applies explicitly to us today, but all Scriptures contain truth that we can, and should, apply to our lives today.

In addition to the law that you mentioned, God is not saving men today with a boat made out of wood.

Good afternoon Major,

Can you be so kind as to give us all some scripture to back this thought of your up?

Thanks so very much!

Numbers 23:19

God is not a man, that he should lie;
neither the son of man, that he should repent:
hath he said, and shall he not do it?
or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

James 1:17
Whatever is good and perfect is a gift coming down to us from God our Father, who created all the lights in the heavens. He never changes or casts a shifting shadow.
 
I was thinking about this and yes I agree. Not all of Scripture necessarily applies explicitly to us today, but all Scriptures contain truth that we can, and should, apply to our lives today.

So if All Scripture contains Truth that we Can and Should apply to our lives, then would it not explicitly apply to us?
Blessings
FCJ
 
Hi Chris,

Can you please tell me how you define this word. What you believe it to mean?

Thanks
Hello Cturtle,

Thank you for asking.

In Luke 16:2,3 & 4, the Greek word translated 'dispensation' (oikonomia), is also translated, 'stewardship'. In 1 Cor.9:17, Eph.1:10; 3:2,9 (RV), Col. 1:25 and 1 Tim.1:4 (RV), it is translated 'dispensation'. It is the act of administering, eg., The management or administration of a household, or an economy,

God has spoken 'at sundry times', and in 'divers manners' (Heb.1:1).

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Chris
 
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Hi Chris,

Thanks for defining that for me. I was making sure that we were on the same page :)

Can you tell me how Hebrews fits into this?

Thanks

Hello again, Cturtle,

I believe you are asking this in regard to what I have said concerning Scripture, that though ALL Scripture is FOR us, not ALL is ABOUT us, yes?

The epistle to the Hebrews, is FOR us, as all Scripture is, but it's content is not necessarily ABOUT us.

It was written to other Hebrew believers by Paul. It's authorship is disputed by some, but I believe the content proves it to be by the hand of Paul, along with the words of Peter in, (2 Peter 3:15), written to Hebrew believers dispersed throughout the nation's. Peter says,

'... our beloved Paul also
according to the wisdom given unto him
hath written unto you.'


Who those believers were, or what they believed, or what their earlier standing was, may be gathered from Acts 21:20, where James says to Paul,

'Thou seest, brother,
how many thousands of Jews there are which believe;
and they are all zealous of the law'


If they were all, 'zealous of the law', and continued to offer sacrifices for sins, (as it is clear that they did from Acts 21:26), they could not have believed that Christ was 'The end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth'; and they could not have known their standing in Christ. In Acts 21 they are not distinguished from those who beat Paul (v32), and cried, 'away with Him' (v.36): and their zeal for the law was so great, that, they not only observed it for themselves, but would persecute and destroy those who forsook it (Acts 21:21-24); compare 1 Thess.2:14-16). It was to such Hebrews as these, who believed so little, and worked so much, that Paul was inspired to write an epistle.

It was written to those who had, 'a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, had not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law, to everyone that believeth.' To make this known to them the epistle to the Hebrews was written.

I hope this answers your question, CT.
With love
in Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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I believe you are asking this in regard to what I have said concerning Scripture,

I actually was refering to the Hebrews 1:1 Scripture that you quoted after the definition of dispensation.
I apologize for not being more clear.

Blessings to you and thanks for always being so gracious to share what's on your heart and mind.
 
Good afternoon Major,

Can you be so kind as to give us all some scripture to back this thought of your up?

Thanks so very much!

Numbers 23:19

God is not a man, that he should lie;
neither the son of man, that he should repent:
hath he said, and shall he not do it?
or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

James 1:17
Whatever is good and perfect is a gift coming down to us from God our Father, who created all the lights in the heavens. He never changes or casts a shifting shadow.

I will try and answer your question. I t may turn out to be a long answer so please forgive me.

As for Hebrews 13:8.........Jesus is the same, but it would help us all to understand how He is the same. He is the same in His "character, and in His person and in His attributes".

But He is not the same in "place" or in "performance".

About 1900 years ago He was in Bethlehem in a manger. He is not there today. About 30 years after that He was a boy playing in the land of Nazareth, but He is not there today. Then after that He was in Jerusalem, on a cross on Golgotha, but He is not there today.

Hebrews 8:1.........
"We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens"

Hebrews 12:2.......
"and we are to look unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith".

He accomplished our redemption 1900 years ago and then He sat down at the right hand of the Father. Right now He is up u=yonder in heaven and is not walking on the streets of Jerusalem. or Bethlehem or Nazareth. So I think that it is clear that He is not the same in "place".

When He walked on the earth He touched and taught and healed during His earthly ministry. Since He is in heaven today He is not touching and healing those in Jerusalem today. So again, I think we can see that He is not the same in His performance today.

When He was here 1900 years ago, He brought God down to man, to our level. He identified with our humanity so that as a man He could pay the penalty for mans sin.

We know that when Jesus comes again, He will not be beaten, spat upon, poked at, and killed. Again that speaks of His performance and His performance in the future will not be the same as it was in the past.

Revelation 19:11-16............
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords."

That is the picture of the Judge not anything like the one who died on the cross.

Now for James 1:17. the ESV says.........
"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change."

The King James does not say....."He never changes".
"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."

To me that means God does not vary. He is not a yo yo. The laws of Creation do not change.

Numbers 23:19 is of course about the immutability of God. Whenever one verse of Scripture seems to contradict other Scriptures it is always wise to look at that particular verse in its context. The three most important rules of hermeneutics are as follows: 1. Context 2. Context 3. Context!!! The context of this passage is Balak's hiring of Balaam to curse the children of Israel. Although Balaam attempted to curse the Israelites God forbid him, and commanded him to bless them instead. After doing so, Balak was upset at his actions.

As a result Balaam went back to God to try to get God to allow him to curse the Israelites. God still refused. Numbers 23:19 is part of Balaam's speech to Balak concerning the Lord's answer. He said that God is not a man that He should lie, or the Son of Man that He should change His mind. God had spoken what He had spoken, and that was the end of the story. Balaam was told to bless the Israelites, and He did. Now that He had blessed them, and subsequently God had blessed them, there was no reversing the blessing.

I for one belie the lesson to be learned from Numbers 23:19 is the we can now say that God is a man, and the son of man; however, He is not like all other men in that He has no sin, but is holy like God. What Balaam was referring to is men's sinfulness, and their resultant fickleness. God is not like fallen men. This does not preclude God from ever becoming a man, but only forbids that God should ever become like fallen men, being untrustworthy, lying, or failing to keep His word.
 
So if All Scripture contains Truth that we Can and Should apply to our lives, then would it not explicitly apply to us?
Blessings
FCJ

I agree Jim. We absolutely should and I would even say that there is lesson that can be learned in every Scripture. However it is clear that somethings just do not apply for us today. Or at least it is to me.

God has spoken and worked with and taught men in different ways in different times.

Heb. 1:1-2..........
" Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds".

We can learn for an example from the Ark which saved men but there is no one being saved today in an Ark.
We can learn from the lesson in Rev. that we should not take a physical mark in support of the A/C but that is not for today but a future day.
Then there is the Law of God. It was given to a specific group of people at a specific time but we are not saved by it and we do not keep it for our salvation today. We should all try to but we can not do it and that is why God has allowed us the Grace to be saved today with out the Law or with works. But that will change in the Tribulation period so again we see that some things are not for us today.
 
I actually was refering to the Hebrews 1:1 Scripture that you quoted after the definition of dispensation.
I apologize for not being more clear.

Blessings to you and thanks for always being so gracious to share what's on your heart and mind.

I am not sure what you are asking but it is my understanding that "Dispensation" means time. So that Hebrews 1:1 and the phrase..."Sundry times" is not speaking of time as we think of it.

The focus is that God spoke through Moses but before that He spoke to Abraham. He did so by dreams, and angels who came to him and even one of them was the pre-incarnant Christ. But when He spoke to Abraham He did not tell him what He told Moses.

God did not say anything at all to Abraham about the Law. He did not give him the 10 Commandments but later God did give them to Moses.

Later on, God told David that a king would be coming through him who would be a Saviour. When David was an old man he said that a king was coming in his line, but Gid did not tell that to Moses and He did not tell it to Abraham.

Heb. 1:1 is telling us that God did not give all of His truth to Moses and neither did He give it all to Abraham. God added to His truth in different times to different people as He dealt with men through the ages. It was in the fullness of time that God then sent forth His Son. This is a development of the truth in the Bible which is actually called the Doctrine of Dispensationalism.
 
I agree Jim. We absolutely should and I would even say that there is lesson that can be learned in every Scripture. However it is clear that somethings just do not apply for us today. Or at least it is to me.

God has spoken and worked with and taught men in different ways in different times.

Heb. 1:1-2..........
" Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds".

We can learn for an example from the Ark which saved men but there is no one being saved today in an Ark.
We can learn from the lesson in Rev. that we should not take a physical mark in support of the A/C but that is not for today but a future day.
Then there is the Law of God. It was given to a specific group of people at a specific time but we are not saved by it and we do not keep it for our salvation today. We should all try to but we can not do it and that is why God has allowed us the Grace to be saved today with out the Law or with works. But that will change in the Tribulation period so again we see that some things are not for us today.

Hi Major,
I had thought you were being silly when you said things were Not for us But Yet should be Applied to us.

Oh and don't be too sure of that.
God has been building big wooden boats these days but names them with other names.

They are used in saving men.
Jesus Boat
Gospel Boat
Utter Most Witness but that one is not all wood.

Just a few. They are beautiful vessels to say the least.

Just wanted to add that about the boats to your ark. :)
Have a great weekend
Blessings
FCJ
 
Just a few. They are beautiful vessels to say the least.

Just wanted to add that about the boats to your ark. :)

FCJ, I think I've figured out that you love boats, both literally and figuratively! And I would just like to say that the gospel has been my 'boat'. I climbed aboard desperately, when all else seemed lost. It carried me to a place of safety.

Boats rock!:cool:
 
Hi Major,
I had thought you were being silly when you said things were Not for us But Yet should be Applied to us.

Oh and don't be too sure of that.
God has been building big wooden boats these days but names them with other names.

They are used in saving men.
Jesus Boat
Gospel Boat
Utter Most Witness but that one is not all wood.

Just a few. They are beautiful vessels to say the least.

Just wanted to add that about the boats to your ark. :)
Have a great weekend
Blessings
FCJ

You are a boat guy!!!! LOL!

Why do you think I used the Ark as the example????

Just to show you how we can apply things to us as we learn from the example or the picture that Scripture draws for us, Jesus is the Ark of salvation.
But man is not specifically saved by a wooden boat today. Man is saved by faith in the God-man, Jesus Christ today but He is a picture of that boat.

All those who entered into the Ark were saved from the judgment of God.
All those who enter into Jesus Christ will be saved from the coming judgment of God.

That means God is the same yesterday, and today and tomorrow in His love, and character and grace and attributes but not in person and, performance.

That is of course just my understanding and all are welcome to disagree with me. (Of course you would be wrong but you are free to do so....lol.)
 
FCJ, I think I've figured out that you love boats, both literally and figuratively! And I would just like to say that the gospel has been my 'boat'. I climbed aboard desperately, when all else seemed lost. It carried me to a pla

Truth is I Enjoy boats far more then most, but love them? No mam!
See God showed me how He is Love
We Love God
We Love People
We Love the things of God

God showed me
1 Timothy 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

Now then this gives us a better understanding of 1John2:15

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

This does not say God does not love but rather says one does not know, understand or experience The Love of God in them

This also was shown to me.
When we say we love hamburgers or Boats then it confuses the issue.

It brings God down to hamburgers or boats so no I don't love boats but I Do Enjoy Boats Big Time.
Blessings
FCJ
 
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