The HOLY BIBLE

How important is the Holy Bible for salvation? Can anybody be saved without having heard of the Holy Bible?
In the OT yes, in the NT no.

The only reason for a 'no' in the NT is because if you are a good person / after God's heart He will reveal Himself to you as Jesus and organize for you to receive a bible asap.

God's gospel to mankind has from day 1 has simply being to repent sincerely Psalm 51:17. So all OT, yes.
 
Because we believe the Holy Bible contains the WORD of God, this is where I based my question. Example, other RELIGIONS do not accept the Holy Bible, are believers of these RELIGIONS be saved ?
No. If any were sincerely God fearing they would find Jesus / God would reveal Jesus to them. Now of course many in other religions will take offence with this line :whistle:. But, it is the painful truth!

Rev 3:20-21 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Accepting Jesus is accepting God.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
 
We are saved by calling upon the name of Jesus.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

.
That verse needs context. It is a dangerous stand alone verse.

Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
 
That verse needs context. It is a dangerous stand alone verse.

Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Take my post in context. You can't take my post as a stand alone answer to the poster's comment.
 
How important is the Holy Bible for salvation? Can anybody be saved without having heard of the Holy Bible?
Since the Holy Bible contains the "WORD" of God, we may well consider this book as God's instrument of finding the people worthy to be with HIM in eternity. But as it is, people cannot agree on the "very word of God" because HUMAN WISDOM that is condemned in "spiritual matters" is used in its interpretation.

Have we not read the following warning but these are completely ignored:

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


The "letter" refers to the "literal interpretation" that does not yet give the "intended message". In the beginning of the ministry of Jesus Christ, He demonstrated this when He drove the "merchants in the temple, selling doves, sheep, and exchanging money". He told His listeners, "destroy this temple and in 3 days I raise it up".

Two (2) classes of people were there listening:

1. The Apostles just kept silent knowing the "temple" is the "letter" that is not yet the "intended message".

John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Johm 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


2. The rest of the people took "temple" literally, and so the following consequences that "killeth" the "spiritual meaning" of TEMPLE:

Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
Matthew 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
Mark 15:30 Save thyself, and come down from the cross.


This is but one example. Perhaps if we are reminded of the "spiritual message" of what we read, our eyes will be opened to the erroneous literal interpretations .
 
How important is the Holy Bible for salvation? Can anybody be saved without having heard of the Holy Bible?

Hello and welcome to CFS and I can maybe a add a little to your thoughts. Part one: I think if you had no access whatsoever to a bible and we're saved then God, by His Spirit, would sustain you and build a relationship with you. Part Two. However since Bibles and God's Word are virtually everywhere, hearing His Word along with fellowship with other believers, is needful for Christian Growth. Hope this has added to your thoughts....
 
God gave us the Holy Bible as if to represent HIM since He cannot talk directly to us. And so, His words serve as our direct communication as if Jesus Christ was personally with His Disciples during His time. What is observed is they did not understand what He was saying, that He often rebuked them. Perhaps, the following would give us a lesson to treat His words:
Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he
expounded all things to his disciples.

The fact that we, Bible believers, cannot agree on many things we read we cannot claim to be true DISCIPLES of Christ. Example, how does our LORD expound on this?
Joh_9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which
see not might see;
and that they which see might be made blind.

Today, who are the "people claiming to see..."
 
The word of God is a light unto my path...enabling me, by the power of the Holy Spirit to see and behold the mysteries of God.

Psalm 119:105
Your word is a lamp to guide my feet
and a light for my path.

Colossians 1:25-27
God has given me the responsibility of serving his church by proclaiming his entire message to you. 26 This message was kept secret for centuries and generations past, but now it has been revealed to God’s people. 27 For God wanted them to know that the riches and glory of Christ are for you Gentiles, too. And this is the secret: Christ lives in you. This gives you assurance of sharing his glory.
 
In the OT yes, in the NT no.

The only reason for a 'no' in the NT is because if you are a good person / after God's heart He will reveal Himself to you as Jesus and organize for you to receive a bible asap.

God's gospel to mankind has from day 1 has simply being to repent sincerely Psalm 51:17. So all OT, yes.
Wow!! A good person after Gods heart?? Really? Salvation has always been by the free mercy of God in Christ, the promised One! The Savior of His people! True faith and repentance rest in the mercy of Christ and His merits alone! The law to a child of God causes sorrow over his or her wretched self, and lays hold upon Jesus as their refuge and deliverance from sin! And it's all the work of God! Like I said before, you promote and teach works righteousness.. If one believes he merited Gods favor by his goodness, faithfulness, and obedience to the laws of God; then they have not come to God in Christ by faith. This is what u promote.
 
Wow!! A good person after Gods heart?? Really? Salvation has always been by the free mercy of God in Christ, the promised One! The Savior of His people! True faith and repentance rest in the mercy of Christ and His merits alone! The law to a child of God causes sorrow over his or her wretched self, and lays hold upon Jesus as their refuge and deliverance from sin! And it's all the work of God! Like I said before, you promote and teach works righteousness.. If one believes he merited Gods favor by his goodness, faithfulness, and obedience to the laws of God; then they have not come to God in Christ by faith. This is what u promote.

Exactly!
 
How important is the Holy Bible for salvation? Can anybody be saved without having heard of the Holy Bible?
Salvation has always been the work of God. By His Spirit through His Word. Regardless of how it may come to a sinner. God used prophets and men of God to call people to repentance, whether it was primarily to the nation of Israel in the OT, or the whole world in the NT.. God owes no man Forgiveness.. But yet promised a Savior in Christ Jesus. The message has gone out, and it's the Lord who adds to His church by bringing repentance to the elect throughout all nations. For the wrath of God abides upon the wicked and judgements at hand.. But mercy and forgiveness is found in Christ our Lord
 
1. Wow!! A good person after Gods heart?? Really? 2. Salvation has always been by the free mercy of God in Christ, the promised One! The Savior of His people! True faith and repentance rest in the mercy of Christ and His merits alone! 3. The law to a child of God causes sorrow over his or her wretched self, and lays hold upon Jesus as their refuge and deliverance from sin! 4. And it's all the work of God! 5. Like I said before, you promote and teach works righteousness...6. If one believes he merited Gods favor by his goodness, faithfulness, and obedience to the laws of God; then they have not come to God in Christ by faith. This is what u promote

1. Yes. The verdict is that people reject the light because they love the darkness John 3:19. Cain thought about murder many times I am sure. But it is only when he sunk to a depth of actual evil that he was excomunicated by God. This showed God that he loved the darkness at a concerning level. God did not excommunicate Abel. Abel committed many sins.

You have the cart before the horse. Salvation is a gift from God to those that love Him. Those that love Him follow Rom 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

In fact James 4:8 summarizes my view perfectly. 1. Draw nigh to God, and 2. he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

We all have a working brain from God that knows the difference between killing a fish quickly or slowly. Mankind is highly intelligent. This is why mankind is accountable for their sin. This is why Jesus needed to die for all mankind.

2. Why would someone repent if they do not hate what is evil? A good person is only good because his fruits that we judge him by (as Jesus tells us to do) are evidence of him hating what is evil.

3. Nobody who loves what is evil will accept Jesus. Jesus is not a free 'winning lottery ticket' you were lucky enough to pick up at Walmart. Salvation is a gift from God to those that actually love Him.

4. Yes, salvation is. As I have told you before. Salvation is a plane that leaves the airport. We must get to the airport. It is a Calvinist tactic to blur the scripture on accepting Jesus with salvation.

5. Why are you blurring getting to the airport with leaving the airport? Do you really not grasp that this is what you are doing? Are you a Calvinist?

6. In the OT people got themselves into Abrahams Bosom. No faith in Christ needed.

then they have not come to God in Christ by faith
We are given faith in Christ because we are drawing near to God. Are you espousing faith in faith?

Good works / hating what is evil / repenting James 4:8 leads to God judging heart and mind Jer 17:10 which leads to faith in Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3.
 
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1. Yes. The verdict is that people reject the light because they love the darkness John 3:19. Cain thought about murder many times I am sure. But it is only when he sunk to a depth of actual evil that he was excomunicated by God. This showed God that he loved the darkness at a concerning level. God did not excommunicate Abel. Abel committed many sins.

You have the cart before the horse. Salvation is a gift from God to those that love Him. Those that love Him follow Rom 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

In fact James 4:8 summarizes my view perfectly. 1. Draw nigh to God, and 2. he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

We all have a working brain from God that knows the difference between killing a fish quickly or slowly. Mankind is highly intelligent. This is why mankind is accountable for their sin. This is why Jesus needed to die for all mankind.

2. Why would someone repent if they do not hate what is evil? A good person is only good because his fruits that we judge him by (as Jesus tells us to do) are evidence of him hating what is evil.

3. Nobody who loves what is evil will accept Jesus. Jesus is not a free 'winning lottery ticket' you were lucky enough to pick up at Walmart. Salvation is a gift from God to those that actually love Him.

4. Yes, salvation is. As I have told you before. Salvation is a plane that leaves the airport. We must get to the airport. It is a Calvinist tactic to blur the scripture on accepting Jesus with salvation.

5. Why are you blurring getting to the airport with leaving the airport? Do you really not grasp that this is what you are doing? Are you a Calvinist?

6. In the OT people got themselves into Abrahams Bosom. No faith in Christ needed.


We are given faith in Christ because we are drawing near to God. Are you espousing faith in faith?

Good works / hating what is evil / repenting James 4:8 leads to God judging heart and mind Jer 17:10 which leads to faith in Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3.
Yea I'm sure you know what Cain was thinking lol!! You espouse works righteousness which nullifies Christ and His finished work. Am I a Calvinist?? If you call a Calvinist that holds to the 5 pts of Calvinism, then yes because it's the truth.. All Gods people will agree! And u being a Roman Catholic, I see you hold to the 5pts of Arminianism! So therefore teach and espouse heresy. You teach folks to trust their own righteousness apart from seeking Gods mercy for forgiveness of their wretched depraved guilty sinfulness, and resting in the righteousness of Christ Alone.. We are all spiritually dead and their is NONE who does good, NONE who seeks after God, and NONE righteous...! But u refuse to believe that. Can the physically dead give life to themselves?? So what makes u think u can give life to that which is spiritually dead?? It is Christ who gives life!! So unless u can give yourself life, you will be a slave to sin and under Gods wrath.. It is God who quickens and gives life! The truth humbles a believer, but enrages the self righteous.. All of salvation is of the Lord! The just live by faith, and that's a result from a regenerated heart in Christ... You have the cart before the horse. Glory be to Christ alone!!
 
Am I a Calvinist?? If you call a Calvinist that holds to the 5 pts of Calvinism, then yes because it's the truth

You teach folks to trust their own righteousness apart from seeking Gods mercy for forgiveness of their wretched depraved guilty sinfulness, and resting in the righteousness of Christ Alone.

I would probably agree with 4pt Calvinism like most Christians do.

Us driving our car to the aiport is one issue. Us flying in a plane from the airport is another separate issue. Jesus invites us all to the airport as He has purchased a plane of salvation for us.

I would like to discuss Calvinism with you but it is forbidden on this site. So we better agree to disagree. We do not completely disagree. I would agree with all you said above once we are in Christ. It is getting into Christ that we disagree with. I just can't swallow a belief that insinuates God is partial. Partiality is evil. It is impossible to spin it into good. Just ask the unlucky fella in hell that was never regenerated ;).
 
Men love sin as men love their own flesh and the idea that men do not without some knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ is as absurd that a blind man would hate the rags he is wearing that he does not know or see .
Here is the drawing of God and it is not of man .
"if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me"
it is the preaching of the cross that draws people to God not pop stars and rock music and the things of the world where the church thinks if we act like the world and perform like the world we will draw men unto God.
If you use the world to draw men you will have to keep the world to keep them and the world is drawn to the world like moths to a flame.
It is in the true light of Jesus Christ and as we are drawn to the cross that we begin to speak the truth about ourselves and the closer we get the truth also about God.
Many a man 'hates' his sin because he is sick of it not because he loves God .
Many a man hates sin because he can no longer commit that sin for whatever reason ,Not because he loves God.
To then say if a man hates his sin he is drawing closer to God is quite false and is but a false hope .
The repentant thief crucified alongside with Christ was no different from the other at the beginning . For if you read all the gospels you wil find that both of them mocked the Lord in the beginning.
The false ideas of what Calvin taught based upon superficial reading of him let alone scripture still does not deny the fact that we were all (if His) once "sons of disobedience" "children of wrath" by nature. and therefore in a field of clay no different than any other lump that could be found in that field.
What makes the difference between one lump and another? The potter .

The thief who repented did so because "Jesus was lifted up" and as time past and things were done and said he compared his life with the Lords and his death with the Lords .
and in the light of the Lords righteousnesses all his were as filthy rags in that light .
Not that he had any but one man maybe more righteous than another . and some will justify themselves and say I have not killed ect . and think they are then free from Gods just demands .
That thief then considered his past in the true light . Not good.
He considered his present in that light. not good.
He considered what future he had left in that light . Not good.
Then he considered his standing before God. Not good either .
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" The beginning mind you.
and when the other thief began to mock the Lord again .This one turned his head at least and "rebuked him and said "do you not fear God"?
He judged and condemned himself and thus spoke the truth about himself .If a person cannot recognise or speak the truth about themselves who they do know , they will be unable to recognise or speak the truth about Him who they do not .
he then judged the Lord and justified him and spoke the truth about the Lord.
Then he turned in faith towards Christ in humble submission and said "Lord remember me when thou comest into the kingdom"
For while the visage of Christ was so marred "it was unrecognisable as man " He saw past it all for his eyes had been opened to see "one like unto the Son of God" and a King who would conquer death and inherit a kingdom. and in the true light of THAT said "Remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom."
Jesus turned to him (his head at least) and gave him a promise that has rung out loudly for the last 2000 odd years .
It should be noted that while the other thief no doubt at that time hated his sin .It was too late and being unrepentant in the time given him received nothing but the due recompense of his sins both in this life and for eternity .

in Christ
gerald
 
I would probably agree with 4pt Calvinism like most Christians do.

Us driving our car to the aiport is one issue. Us flying in a plane from the airport is another separate issue. Jesus invites us all to the airport as He has purchased a plane of salvation for us.

I would like to discuss Calvinism with you but it is forbidden on this site. So we better agree to disagree. We do not completely disagree. I would agree with all you said above once we are in Christ. It is getting into Christ that we disagree with. I just can't swallow a belief that insinuates God is partial. Partiality is evil. It is impossible to spin it into good. Just ask the unlucky fella in hell that was never regenerated ;).

What a terrible thing that has been wrought by the devil that because of his serpents creating havoc in the church and one must presume here in these forums also that which Calvin taught cannot either be discussed or considered in any spiritual way .
So that the result has been that the ISM like all other isms which do despite to the truth, has won the field (if not the war) and the biblical principles which he taught and upheld are not only no longer taught but in many it seems no longer understood in consequence and like many other things adds to the reverse reformation in which we are .
and by such means great truths of God proven by scripture witnessed to by the Holy Spirit are by degree and measure are removed and no longer taught . To the detriment of the church and of every child of God.
Yet at the same time the gross errors proved beyond all reasonable doubt at the reformation both by biblical argument and the murderous reaction to the truth are still held to be true and are by degree and measure slowly being insinuated and propagated into the church and sadly accepted by many by the same who now have gone further in their error and claim infallibility in them.

The only way to get 'into' Christ and THE church which is His body . Is to be baptised by the Holy Spirit and sealed by Him into the body of Christ.
For by the Word of God the Moabites were barred from the kingdom of God forever . Nehamiah 13
Yet Ruth was a moabitess !
How then?
Because she forsook her land her kin and her gods and said to her mother in law emphatically " your God will be my God and your people my people ......."
Moses REFUSED (by faith) to be called the son of Pharoes daughter . But rather CHOSE (by faith) to endure the afflictions of Gods people than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season" Hebrews.

God is not partial for he has declared that ALL are sold unto sin .that ALL have sinned and have come short of the glory fo God .
and that by Pauls argument proves wether you be a Jew or gentile there is no difference all have sinned and thus condemned .
and in another place says we were as all men by nature "children of disobedience " and children of wrath"
Those who abuse scripture and misuse it , misinterprate put it out of joint will do that and much more then with the words of men even if they speak the truth .
Thus if all have sinned then all are guilty and all condemned to be damned .
we are all as an unclean thing . NONE seeks after God etc etc etc etc etc etc .
The condemnation to all then has none excluded.
For God so loved the world then has none excluded also .
For that love of God is extended to all men .
The provision of that love is also extended to all men and God has the capability of saving all by that provision.
The promise however is to them that beleive God not to the ones who dont.

"If I be lifted up(on the cross) I will draw ALL men unto me " Who then is excluded? If it says ALL.
"God is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to a knowledge fo the truth " Who then is excluded?
None.
Yet men will not come to the light for their deeds are evil. So says the scriptures.
You cannot resist the iristable but if you do you will brign destruction upon your own head .
You cannot deny the irrifutable .But to deny it is to brign damnation to your own soul.
Whos fault is it then?
Not Gods .
His provision is for all His power is for all and he draws all men unto Him.
But what sayeth the scripture?
"Ye do always resist the Holy ghost"!
It truly is by the grace of God we are saved .
and it is not for those who get saved to be so busy 'celebrating' and thinking how wonderful they are that to forget those still lost and dead ,But are by the command of God "go and do likewise " and be HIS witnesses and testify of the hope that lieth with in them and of Gods goodness .To all men .
In Jesus Christ.
As usual then the devil will take the truth and put it out of joint out of context and speak half truths and missapply the truth so as to ensnare the people of God and cause them to sin.

in Christ
gerald
 
1. Yes. The verdict is that people reject the light because they love the darkness John 3:19. Cain thought about murder many times I am sure. But it is only when he sunk to a depth of actual evil that he was excomunicated by God. This showed God that he loved the darkness at a concerning level. God did not excommunicate Abel. Abel committed many sins.

You have the cart before the horse. Salvation is a gift from God to those that love Him. Those that love Him follow Rom 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

In fact James 4:8 summarizes my view perfectly. 1. Draw nigh to God, and 2. he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

We all have a working brain from God that knows the difference between killing a fish quickly or slowly. Mankind is highly intelligent. This is why mankind is accountable for their sin. This is why Jesus needed to die for all mankind.

2. Why would someone repent if they do not hate what is evil? A good person is only good because his fruits that we judge him by (as Jesus tells us to do) are evidence of him hating what is evil.

3. Nobody who loves what is evil will accept Jesus. Jesus is not a free 'winning lottery ticket' you were lucky enough to pick up at Walmart. Salvation is a gift from God to those that actually love Him.

4. Yes, salvation is. As I have told you before. Salvation is a plane that leaves the airport. We must get to the airport. It is a Calvinist tactic to blur the scripture on accepting Jesus with salvation.

5. Why are you blurring getting to the airport with leaving the airport? Do you really not grasp that this is what you are doing? Are you a Calvinist?

6. In the OT people got themselves into Abrahams Bosom. No faith in Christ needed.


We are given faith in Christ because we are drawing near to God. Are you espousing faith in faith?

Good works / hating what is evil / repenting James 4:8 leads to God judging heart and mind Jer 17:10 which leads to faith in Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3.

ALL ,men have faith . for God has given to every man a measure of faith to profit withall "
But not all have their faith in God . But rather in the things that are seen and therefore tempory.

Faith in God is not another 'faith' it is but the same faith we all have and use every day and works in the same way according to what faith "IS" Hebrews.
"Faith in God comes by hearing and by that understanding the Word of God"
Even as faith in any thing else works by the same way by understanding the word or promise of that which you put your faith in.
We do not need then to get faith or find faith or work it up etc .
We need to put it in the right and everlasting thing .
That comes when we understand what God is saying .

in Christ
gerald
 
What is this BOOK that we read, that from all indications it refers to the HOLY BIBLE?
Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.


And this BOOK needs to "be eaten", as we claim to "eat the word of God"
Rev 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
Rev 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
Rev 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
 
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