The kingdom of God

ATP said:
Then where do we go after we die if it's not into God's kingdom?
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It is called the new City, and/or Heaven if Jesus tarry. The Kingdom (Rule of God and power) lives in us.

There is no Greek Word used in scripture that gives any English meaning to our understanding of Kingdom, like in Walt Disney Kingdom.

The New City is mentioned, and Heaven is Mentioned.

The YLT translates Basilia right, the other translations made it a English Noun (Kingdom) It's a Greek Female noun...... To rule over.

There is NO PLACE That is a KINGDOM in SCRIPTURE!!! ZERO.

There is a Reign of God (Kingdom of God)
There is a Rule in Heaven (Kingdom of Heaven)
The Kingdom is not meat and drink, it's not a place, its inside us.

I gave you the Greek definition. I don't know what else to do.
 
ATP said:
Ok, so you agree that the Kingdom is the New City and or heaven.
Well, where does this Rule and Power come from. It comes from a place.
Rev 21:9-27 proves it is a place. It has gates, walls, glass and the dimensions are right there.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Place?s=t
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The rule and power come from inside US............. Not from gates are buildings but from the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said the Kingdom of God abides "IN US" It's now, it's not later and not gates or buildings..

Scripture only brother.............

I gave the Actual Greek Word for Kingdom, and the definition clearly states it's not a place.

So the Rule comes from the HOLY SPIRIT INSIDE US. Not a place.
If we grieve the Holy Spirit which we are told not to do by sin and junk, then we don't get to operate in the Rule of God (Kingdom of God)
We need to repent and get right with God again..........

Nothing about not being saved, you can be saved and out of line with God's plan and will. Still saved though.
 
By Faith said:
So the Rule comes from the HOLY SPIRIT INSIDE US. Not a place.
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Ok, good. So you understand that the rule and power comes from the Holy Spirit. Well, where does the Holy Spirit come from if it's not a place?? The Holy Spirit doesn't just appear out of thin air right? I'll give you a hint. When Jesus ascended up into the clouds and left his apostles, where did he go to sit down?
 
ATP said:
Ok, good. So you understand that the rule and power comes from the Holy Spirit. Well, where does the Holy Spirit come from if it's not a place?? The Holy Spirit doesn't just appear out of thin air right? I'll give you a hint. When Jesus ascended up into the clouds and left his apostles, where did he go to sit down?
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He sat down on His throne next to His Father in Heaven. The Holy Spirit He sent to earth for us. "For I must go to my father, and I will send you a comforter."

Mat 6:10 YLT `Thy reign (KINGDOM) come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth.

Luk 11:20 kjva But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Luk 11:20 YLT but if by the finger of God I cast forth the demons, then come unawares upon you did the reign of God.

Once the Power and reign of God came by the Holy Spirit God's will could be accomplished through many believers through the rule of God.

God's Rule and authority come, thy will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven.

So, anyone who wants to disobey God, and grieve the Holy Spirit, can not operate in the power, rule, reign of God (Kingdom-KJV)

So, Paul is talking to believers who will not walk after the Spirit.....

There was a condition there!!!! Walk in the Spirit.......... Else you don't partake of the rule, reign, power, (KINGDOM) of God.

I hope we are getting close.

Be blessed.
 
ATP said:
And do you believe Heaven is a place?
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I already said how many times Heaven is a place.

One more time...........

Gal 5:18-23 kjva 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

What happens if your not led or walking by the Spirit of God? If.........IF............IF..............IF...............IF YE BE LED BY THE SPIRIT..............IF.............

Rom 8:13 kjva For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Do the unsaved have the Holy Spirit to mortify the deeds of their body? NO, WE DO.

What if we don't live by the Spirit, but walk after things of the flesh? What happens then?

Gal 5:16 kjva This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

What happens if you don't walk in the Spirit, but walk in the flesh?
The Works of the flesh can manifest in our lives.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

If you don't walk after the Spirit of God, then the Works of the flesh can manifest. Paul list some things that can manifest.

If you live by the flesh, then your not living by the Spirit, or have the Power of the Holy Spirit in your life. God's Rule and will is not being done for your life. You don't enter in (inherit) the rule, will and power of God in your life.

You can repent, and get back on track.

It's a warning to not be flesh led, but Spirit led.

This has nothing to do with being saved or unsaved, but getting your prayers answered and God doing his will and plan for you life.
 
By Faith said:
You can repent, and get back on track.
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But repentance is a gift of God, not from us. It is always a good thing to walk away from sin, but you're only repenting because repentance is a gift of God and not of your own accord. God's grace and love is why you repent, not because of anything you did yourself.
 
ATP said:
But repentance is a gift of God, not from us. It is always a good thing to walk away from sin, but you're only repenting because repentance is a gift of God and not of your own accord. God's grace and love is why you repent, not because of anything you did yourself.
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Not on our own accord? What?

A born again spirit has a new nature, a gift from God. The Holy Spirit is a gift also.............. If we don't use those gifts, then what?

1Pe 5:6 kjva Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

Who is suppose to Humble themselves?

1Co 9:27 kjva But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Who is Bringing Paul's body under subjection?

1Co 9:24 kjva Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Who is suppose to do the running?

Jas 4:7 kjva Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Who is suppose to Submit themselves?

Jas 1:21 kjva Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Who is responsible for laying apart all filthiness and saving their own soul?

2Ti 2:20-21 kjva 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Who is suppose to purge themselves so they are sanctified and fit to be used by the Master?

I have lot more if you need them.

Without Help and being born again, we can't do these things in flesh, but if we don't walk in the Spirit and use what is available then what happens to us?
 
By Faith said:
Not on our own accord? What?

A born again spirit has a new nature, a gift from God. The Holy Spirit is a gift also.............. If we don't use those gifts, then what?

1Pe 5:6 kjva Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

Who is suppose to Humble themselves?

1Co 9:27 kjva But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Who is Bringing Paul's body under subjection?

1Co 9:24 kjva Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Who is suppose to do the running?

Jas 4:7 kjva Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Who is suppose to Submit themselves?

Jas 1:21 kjva Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Who is responsible for laying apart all filthiness and saving their own soul?

2Ti 2:20-21 kjva 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Who is suppose to purge themselves so they are sanctified and fit to be used by the Master?

I have lot more if you need them.

Without Help and being born again, we can't do these things in flesh, but if we don't walk in the Spirit and use what is available then what happens to us?
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Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
 
ATP said:
You can't get saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved and saved again. The Holy Spirit doesn't enter our body, leave our body, enter it again, leave it again then enter it again. That is silly and is not biblical. Once you believe and come to faith you are then sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. God also doesn't work that way, he's not flimsy or temporal. God is eternal, and his promises are eternal. Unconditional love means just that. Jesus didn't die for your sins under flimsy conditions. Why? Because human beings are carnal in nature. The only perfect being was Jesus Christ. Why would he ask us to live up to that kind of deity? It's impossible, and Jesus knew that. That's why he took on all sins, past/present/future. He made sure there was no gaps in God's salvation plan for us. Disobedience only results in lack of rewards and crowns in heaven, not salvation. The blood of Jesus is permanent, and thank the Lord for that.
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To us it can seem as though we go from saved to unsaved to saved to unsaved to saved to unsaved to saved to unsaved. We all think we are saved.

But to God it is unsaved to saved to a really really hard / shipwrecking type unsaved. Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? It would be a great miracle if someone can go from unsaved to saved after being saved.

As for 1 Cor 6:9-11. It refers to unsaved and saved. It is key to understand the difference between a sinner and a Christian. A sinner is someone who stays in sin willfully. A Christian is not a sinner but can still have sin. Sin is always a mistake for Christian / something they hate and are quick to repent of. It is a life choice for the unsaved John 3:19. Example ''no adulterers in heaven'' = nobody continuing willfully in adultery and not a Christian who did it but hates it and fights the desire to continue in it.

1 Cor 6:9-11 Is an interesting passage too as we could take those sins as Paul's discernment of what in his opinion (as someone entrusted by God to give it) are mortal sins.
 
KingJ said:
To us it can seem as though we go from saved to unsaved to saved to unsaved to saved to unsaved to saved to unsaved. We all think we are saved.

But to God it is unsaved to saved to a really really hard / shipwrecking type unsaved. Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? It would be a great miracle if someone can go from unsaved to saved after being saved.
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But saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved is not biblical. Heb 10:29 is about Jews, Israel and Judaism, not about born again christians who have been marked with the seal of the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with born again christians. Not every christian who calls themselves a christian is saved. A born again christian cannot lose his salvation. Neither the present nor the future can separate us from God (Rom 8:38-39) / All Sins are Covered (Col 2:13-15) / An inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade (1 Peter 1:4) / We are marked with a seal (Eph 1:13-14).

Heb 10:26-31
The absence of NT damnation terminology in Hebrews calls into question the widely held assumption that the author’s purpose was to warn his readers of eternal judgement. Furthermore, to limit the warnings to a distant future judgement overlooks its nearness and diminishes its relevance to the first-century audience facing the dangers arising from the first Jewish revolt. There are many clues throughout the epistle that point to the physical threat posed by the coming Roman invasion to those Christians who lapsed back into Judaism. These clues point immediately to the destruction of Palestine, the city of Jerusalem and the Temple. These conclusions are confirmed by a close examination of the OT texts cited or alluded to in Hebrews 10:26–31. Rather than eternal destruction, the OT examples warn of physical judgement coming upon Israel because of covenant unfaithfulness. If they sought refuge in Judaism, the readers could suffer the same fate of the Jewish rebels by the Romans. However, the readers could avoid God’s wrath coming upon the Jewish nation by holding firm to their confession, bearing the reproach of Christ outside the camp (13:13), and looking to the heavenly city instead of Jerusalem now under the sentence of destruction (13:14).
 
:) There are strong arguments from both sides. I can give you scripture all day long. But it is not necessary because:

Lets say someone continued unrepentant in murder and says he is a Christian. You would say he was never truly saved. I would say he is shipwrecking his salvation. We would both agree that he is NOT en route to heaven. Hence we can both conclude that someone who continues in a mortal type sin really needs to get on their knees and judge themselves harshly.

The below scripture applies to us all!
1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So based on just the above scripture I err away from OSAS and accept that even if it is true that I am just a human who cannot grasp God Job 9:3. What I can grasp is the need to judge my actions daily and that many want to live sinful lives with a Christian t-shirt.
 
ATP said:
Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
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This is why we have the tools of the Holy Spirit to purge ourselves of these things. flesh did not change when you got born again. Your soul did not change.Those things WE fix and I posted the scriptures for that.

Our born again spirit can have dominance if we put the old man under, and Walk after the Spirit (spirit) If we don't we won't see the power, rule and authority of God in our life until we do and grow up.
Kingdom of God.
 
KingJ said:
Lets say someone continued unrepentant in murder and says he is a Christian. You would say he was never truly saved. I would say he is shipwrecking his salvation. We would both agree that he is NOT en route to heaven. Hence we can both conclude that someone who continues in a mortal type sin really needs to get on their knees and judge themselves harshly.
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Well, at the end of the day only God knows the heart and who is truly born again or not. But if you are born again, you're going home. You can count on it.
 
By Faith said:
No, we don't agree, and I gave the scripture to back it up.
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1 Cor 6:9-11 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Hi By Faith. But you cannot un-inherit the kingdom of God. Saying a born again christian can un-inherit the kingdom is saying they can lose their salvation. A born again christian cannot lose his salvation. He loses rewards and crowns at the Bema Seat, there's a difference there.

Neither the present nor the future can separate us from God (Rom 8:38-39)
All Sins are Covered (Col 2:13-15)
An inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade (1 Peter 1:4)
We are marked with a seal (Eph 1:13-14)

- ATP
 
ATP said:
1 Cor 6:9-11 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Hi By Faith. But you cannot un-inherit the kingdom of God. Saying a born again christian can un-inherit the kingdom is saying they can lose their salvation. A born again christian cannot lose his salvation. He loses rewards and crowns at the Bema Seat, there's a difference there.

Neither the present nor the future can separate us from God (Rom 8:38-39)
All Sins are Covered (Col 2:13-15)
An inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade (1 Peter 1:4)
We are marked with a seal (Eph 1:13-14)

- ATP
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I give up.............. Nothing I can do for you.
 
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