The Letter Kills But The Spirit Gives Life

Where is the Messiah said:
The curse is that man has to labor to get food from the ground. Cain gave an offering from the ground, but did not get blessed. Now if we look through scripture, are there other people that gave offerings from the ground. Yes. Did they get blessed? Yes. So if Cain gave from ground, and did not get blessed, yet other people have gave from the ground and did get blessed, that would show us that the ground was not the issue. But when we look at that passage what did Abel do, that it does not say Cain did? Give his first fruit. Now since there is so many scriptures that talk about a relationship between first fruit, and blessings, I would think we have to assume this was the reason Cain did not receive blessing.
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There it is: the "man has to labor" to eat. The ground was not cursed to bear no fruit: it was cursed to make getting the fruit more difficult. But the blessing in man overcomes the curse of the ground!

But I also think that Abel believed the testimony of his parents: and that is where faith comes in. It is in giving to God the right type of sacrifice. Abel could not give life to the lamb, only God could do that. So the lamb represents the first sacrifice by man: a type of Christ, "...the first-fruits of them that slept."
 
The issue is clearly that Able offered a sacrifice by FAITH and Cain did not... He offered a sacrifice based upon his own works.. which is a picture of law and grace.. the letter and the Spirit.
 
Where is the Messiah said:
Good-morning gentlemen,
I just read the first post, which I found to be thought provoking. I would like to thank Mitspa for taking the time to share these wonderful scriptures, and his thoughts on them. It has encouraged me to read Gen Chapter 4. I just had a few quick questions..

When you said this, "Both had a desire to worship God and be accepted before God, but God will only accept that which represents His Son."

But when I read this
4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door;it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

The part where it says abel gave "fat portions from some of the first born of his flock" So, I think the issue is that Cain did not have the right kind of giving heart, and not necessarily that he wasn't giving a lamb as you say. Because it says Abel gave his firstborn, whereas it does not state that for Cain. And what does scripture say about offering the first, when sacrificing?

"Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine"

"We obligate ourselves to bring the firstfruits of our ground and the firstfruits of all fruit of every tree, year by year, to the house of theLord;"

And the first of all the firstfruits of all kinds, and every offering of all kinds from all your offerings, shall belong to the priests. You shall also give to the priests the first of your dough, that a blessing may rest on your house.

“Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the Lord. And the grain offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, a food offering to the Lord with a pleasing aroma, and the drink offering with it shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin. And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

As soon as the command was spread abroad, the people of Israel gave in abundance the firstfruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, and of all the produce of the field. And they brought in abundantly the tithe of everything.

The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk.”

So I think the problem with Cain was that which was in his heart. I believe even if he had offered lamb, he would of still not received blessing, because his heart led him to not give the firstlings. If the ground was the main issue, then I don't believe God would say all throughout scripture to give first fruits of their harvests.

I could be missing something here, and would be curious to hear your thoughts on it though brother. It's all interesting stuff to me.
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You are right as to the heart of the giver but the offering required was atonement for sin...the fruit of the ground falls short...even if Cain had brought the firstfruits here there is no remission without the shed blood. Mitzpas point I think was that this is what God did for his parents and his parents mimicked... Abel thereby "believed God: and it was counted as righteousness....Cain worked hard but even good works (even the first fruits of them) does not earn or merit "righteousness" (Romans 9:32)

What really impresses me is God offers Cain grace and tells Him to go and do it right and it will go well...He left the choice up to Cain and Cain refused to do it God's way (doing what was right in his own eyes made him lord of his life)
 
If where is through and has come to some understanding? I will move on to another point? In a little while... Guys this is what I have to give...I have literally wore out bibles trying to understand the things I am teaching on this thread... If you are wise you will listen and you will find a new power and life in the Spirit...and Mitspa will be forgotten for the joy you have in the life that has been given to those who love the truth.
 
Just as the gift of prophecy is needed to be a prophet and the gift of faith is given to the office of an Evangelist, so he that holds the office of the Teacher must have this particular gift. The Ministry, as elders in the Church, can receive a double portion of the gifts:
and the Teacher by necessity must have the gift of...?

Can anyone tell me?
 
Brother Paul said:
You are right as to the heart of the giver but the offering required was atonement for sin...the fruit of the ground falls short...even if Cain had brought the firstfruits here there is no remission without the shed blood. Mitzpas point I think was that this is what God did for his parents and his parents mimicked... Abel thereby "believed God: and it was counted as righteousness....Cain worked hard but even good works (even the first fruits of them) does not earn or merit "righteousness" (Romans 9:32)

What really impresses me is God offers Cain grace and tells Him to go and do it right and it will go well...He left the choice up to Cain and Cain refused to do it God's way (doing what was right in his own eyes made him lord of his life)
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So from the beginning "righteousness" was based upon faith and that faith being upon the sacrifice and offering for sin. Now consider the effect upon Able and Cain? Able in that he was in righteousness and faith, did not hate his brother..But Cain in that he was striving to earn righteousness based upon his own cursed works, had hatred for his brother. We see this conflict throughout the scriptures? That the brother that is blessed based upon promise, is always persecuted by the brother that seeks to attain Gods blessing through their own striving and efforts of the flesh.

Ga 4:21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
 
Now the way satan has defeated the power of these scriptures, and blinded many from seeing the truth, is by this completely unbiblical idea that the law is divided into parts? That somehow when Paul speaks about the "two covenants" one from Sinai..that this does not mean the Ten Commandments as being part of the law? Well the truth is that the Ten Commandments is the very heart and core of that first covenant and nothing else came from the mount but the Ten Commandments and all other things written in the law was to serve the Ten Commandments.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
 
2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Now the ONLY thing written and engraved in stones was the TEN COMMANDMENTS... and all else written in the law was to serve these commandments.

Now Able has spoke the truth...lets see what Cain does?
 
God does not want to rule us by fear or legalism but by faith and love...but some have hearts so hard that they cannot understand the power of God to cause us to live according to two simple commands? Believe in Him and love as He has loved us. Some had rather die or had rather slay there brother (like Cain) to walk in true righteousness.
 
You know some might think or say "Mitspa" why are you against the law? I am not against the law! I uphold the law and its purpose. I also know that it cannot be kept by the "letter" but only in the Spirit. But in order to walk in the Spirit a believer MUST be set free from the "letter" we must through the law "die to the law". Its witness against the flesh must defeat all confidence we have in the flesh.
 
Brother Paul said:
No please tell us
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Beloved, I was waiting for the "teacher" to respond: he didn't.
It begins with God's wisdom. Surely love is the motivating force behind God’s creation, but the Spirit of Wisdom is the energy that unfolds God’s love. We find that the scriptures attest that it is Wisdom that puts all things in order and to their best advantage.

The gift of "...the word of wisdom..." unfolds (opens) God's plan to give man a better understanding of His will; that is, the Gospel, the doctrines, and even "...the powers of the world to come." However, but it's only a word, only a piece at a time The gifts
are given to every man "...to profit withal...", but this particular gift is firstly given to the one who has, or will hold, the office of teacher within the Ministry.

There are many men who covet this office, but few are called to occupy it. Now I will say this: If I do not have and/or know the Gospel, I am not authorized to occupy ANY office in the Ministry. And the sad part is, the "teaching" also becomes "...as a sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal."

Walk in Your Calling, Beloved.
 
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Candelario Mario Villa said:
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Beloved, I was waiting for the "teacher" to respond: he didn't.
It begins with God's wisdom. Surely love is the motivating force behind God’s creation, but the Spirit of Wisdom is the energy that unfolds God’s love. We find that the scriptures attest that it is Wisdom that puts all things in order and to their best advantage.

The gift of "...the word of wisdom..." unfolds (opens) God's plan to give man a better understanding of His will; that is, the Gospel, the doctrines, and even "...the powers of the world to come." However, but it a word, only a piece, at a time The gifts
are given to every man "...to profit withal...", but this particular gift is firstly given to the one who has, or will hold, the office of teacher within the Ministry.

There are many men who covet this office, but few are called to occupy it. Now I will say this: If I do not have and/or know the Gospel, I am not authorized to occupy ANY office in the Ministry. And the sad part is, the "teaching" also becomes "...as a sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal."

Walk in Your Calling, Beloved.
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Who is the teacher? Jesus?
 
The teacher has made clear biblical points... if anyone would like to discuss or even debate those truths, I would hope to do it in a respectful way...as me and my friend where have done.:)
 
Mitspa said:
I want to start this discussion in an odd place? With Cain and Able.. God had cursed the ground and mans labors in the ground was cursed. The sweat from the brow was a picture of the anxiety and stress that come upon man to make his own provision in this world. Now Cain labored in the cursed ground and was indeed trying to offer to God from what God had cursed. Able offered God a Lamb and blood, which are a picture of Our Beloved Christ and the righteousness of faith in Him. "The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world" Now this is why Able was called "righteous" and Cain was called "wicked". Both had a desire to worship God and be accepted before God, but God will only accept that which represents His Son.

If one can see this truth..they will be able to understand what "righteousness" really is and what it was from the beginning before God.

Heb 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. {yet...: or, is yet spoken of}
1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Has the "Church" not gone the way of Cain? Have they not attempted to labor in what God has cursed? (the law of Moses) Do they not attempt to offer the works of their own flesh, in all its religious mask? Do they not hate those who rejoice in the righteousness of faith and trust only in the Grace of God? To those who have eyes to see...it is "evident"
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A very good parallel.. It completely makes sense.. But I have to go with WITM (I think we all should agree for a common short form of name for him!!).. This is what Genesis says,

"Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground."

So naturally Abel got something from his livestock and Cain got something that he harvested.. I see two points,

1) There is no reference to Cain's offering as first fruits.. Which means, he was not doing this in faith.. he was doing it as a ritual.. Hence, he was not doing this from his heart.. He was valuing self more than God..
2) This is what Jesus says in Mathew 5: 23,24 - So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

May be Cain already had trouble with Abel? Cain was quick to get angry with Abel.. May be it was an accumulation of the anger.. Lord clearly saw that his heart was not right.. As Jesus said, may be his heart not being right with Abel, his offering could not be accepted.. Because Lord clearly tells Cain that he is not right.. And sin is crouching at his doors.. Looking at this, I am thinking may be Cain was already having some kind of hatred towards Abel.. Why? I don't know :)
 
Brother Paul said:
What really impresses me is God offers Cain grace and tells Him to go and do it right and it will go well...He left the choice up to Cain and Cain refused to do it God's way (doing what was right in his own eyes made him lord of his life)
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Amen! We often focus on men and forget the grace God offered :) Just like how we focus on prodigal son rather than the Father!
 
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