No, if you are born from above you have all the faith you need to do anything the Bible says faith/believing is needed to do. If not used however it atrophies like a muscle. Or you do not know how to use what faith you do have.Lesjude obviously has more faith than the rest of us - woe is me
I have prayed for people in hospitals and they were healed. Jesus never went about randomly raising the dead or healing and neither do His disciples. Why don't you do Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8? It is not like there is no need. You do have the faith and the authority/power of the Holy Spirit, right?
I have never said that. However there is an example in the OT and the NT of the prayer in faith changing God's stated will. But you already know both right?
The Prayer Of Faith Vs. If It Be Your Will: Which Gets Answered?
- Thread starter lesjude
- Start date
I feel like am reading thru a time-machine on what happened in Corinthians then : )
To summarize how I see it:
One gift is saying…. you should live like me… without me… you are nothing.
Some gift is saying: oh… just ignore him….
The other gift is saying, you should live like me: it is normal or ab-normal?
Now here comes me… saying we desire the best! Love : )
1 Corinthians 12
Concerning Spiritual Gifts
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledgeby means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faithby the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
Unity and Diversity in the Body
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free —and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.
16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!”And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!”
22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty,
24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it,
25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.
26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret?
31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
Love Is Indispensable
And yet I will show you the most excellent way.
To summarize how I see it:
One gift is saying…. you should live like me… without me… you are nothing.
Some gift is saying: oh… just ignore him….
The other gift is saying, you should live like me: it is normal or ab-normal?
Now here comes me… saying we desire the best! Love : )
1 Corinthians 12
Concerning Spiritual Gifts
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledgeby means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faithby the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
Unity and Diversity in the Body
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free —and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.
16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!”And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!”
22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty,
24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it,
25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.
26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret?
31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
Love Is Indispensable
And yet I will show you the most excellent way.
"As should be obvious by now I am not like as you say most Christians".
I am pretty sure that most here have identified you and your denominational stance. Most people on this site are very descerning and know when a person shows up to do nothing but expound his personal belief system to others.
I comment you on your effort but I must tell you that your understanding of the Scriptures are flawed by people who have slanted those Scriptures with what they WANT them to say....NOT what they actually do say.
Why are you working so hard to confuse this?????
There is spiritual sickness which is of course SIN.
There is physical sickness which may require a doctor's help.
We are NOT to just pray and trust Jesus to heal our cancer. We pray for the situation, then we should consult a doctor to remove the cancer. Now you can not possible be ignorant to that fact my friend. I have personally given you the Scriptures already to confirm just that.
Matt. 9:5-6 speak of the SIN sickness and NOT physical sickness.
In Matt. 9's context, when the palsied man got up and walked, it meant that the ONE who could make him walk was the ONE who could forgive him of his sins. MY friend.............you and I can not forgive sins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only Jesus can do that. And since we can not forgive sins WE CAN NOT MAKE A MAN HEALED SO AS TO BE ABLE TO WALK. Satan is a deceiver and we all need to be alert to his plans of deception today. The so-called healings we hear about today remind me of the little boy who caught a 6 inch fish at the lake. By the the time he got home, that 6 inch fish had become 12 pounds.
My experience and obsevation is that good meaning people "stretch" what they saw so as to appear more spiritual than other Christians. I saw God heal cancer....I SAW God grow a mans leg 6 inches longer.....I SAW God heal a cut and I did not bleed at all. All of that speaks to one who is desperatly trying to make others believe that HE IS SPECIAL to God and has been allowed to SEE these "miracles".
The truth is that we are all special to God and God does not have to do one single thing to prove Himself. In fact the Bible say the opposite.
Rom. 14:23............
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
I have SEEN many things that I have SHARED with others. Some believe me, and that's okay. Others don't believe me, and that's okay. What matters is that I am not 'stretching' anything, but that I am telling the truth.
If we as Christians don't SEE things that God has done how will we ever have anything to share about His goodness and mercy?
We have lived the scripture I have given for 34 years. We belong to no denomination and never have. You have shown nothing in the Bible that indicates this is not normal Christianity. I would like you to give me your concept of normal Christianity. It seems it is suffering to glorify God but at the same time going to the medical system to get healed while praying if it be thy will. If they do not heal you or kill you then it was not God's will. It seems you believe that God does not mean what he says in James 5:14-15, Psalm 103:1-5, Exodus 15:26. Do you believe that Matthew 5, 6, and 7 are the heart of Christianity as far as relationship/lifestyle/ interaction between God and disciples and disciples and the rest of the world? If you do believe that about Matthew 5, 6 and 7 I have some questions for you.
The fact that you do not belong to a church worries me. It indicates you have not submitted yourself to the body of Christ and therefore are accountable to nobody. I know what you are going to say that you dont belong to a church because they are all wrong or dont agree with YOUR theology. Well if there was such a thing as a perfect church then we would not have the majority of the New Testament. You cannot submit to Christ if you do not submit to His body the church.
If you had this gift of faith which you call "normal" Christianity then why are you not serving the body of Christ with it? We are given gifts for the benefit of others not ourselves except the gift of tongues.
If you actually got to know people on this site you would realise that there are may here with very unique gifts given to them by the Holy Spirit. Instead of getting to know people, you come here and push your theology insulting those who do go to doctors (myself included) implying that they are sining due to their lack of faith. There are people here who have gone through trials which you know nothing about and yet you pass judgement on them but you yourself are accountable to nobody except your ego. If you choose to live your life and believe medical science is sinful then so be it. I tell you this, there is not one person on this site who does not pray for their healing when they get sick. I actually have exeperienced God sending me to the correct doctor to help my daughter - if it is due to my lack of faith then so be it - you are not the judge of me.
Maybe you have heard of a process of sanctification - a process driven by the Holy Spirit, one we are all on, and each person here is in a unique situation in terms of their own sanctification. Only when Christ returns or we join Him one day will we be perfect - this is a work of the Holy Spirit not man.
You are not the first person here to come and proclaim this "truth" which you peddle so arrogantly and guess what you wont be the last - usually they dont last long.
I suggest you start afresh, get to know people, maybe even learn something about them. Serve them, like we are called to do as Christians. There is much more to Christianity than just physical healing. Once we can get past our own pride and arrogance only then can we see the value of people and how much Christ values them too.
How about you post something as an introduction to yourself and start to love the people here.
From recent discussions / debates with people thinking exactly like Lesjude, I have learnt that it does not matter how many valid points we make, they will just frustratingly dance around them. How not going to hospital is not tempting God is beyond me. I now clearly understand the reasoning behind calling for elders to pray for healing! Lesjude, if there was a SARS outbreak in your area would you honestly not take masks from the hospital for you and your family?
My heart goes out to the wife and kids! I have seen wives suffering in silence. Too afraid to be honest and tell their husbands that they are not healed.
My heart goes out to the wife and kids! I have seen wives suffering in silence. Too afraid to be honest and tell their husbands that they are not healed.
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
If you are no better, then why is your Christianity called 'normal'?
And yes, I HAVE been there. There have been many times I worried about my wife and whether I would come home to find her dead. We have been through a trial which ended with the death of a beloved dog. There was much prayer for her and she was brought through two bouts with cancer. But at the end, God took her in her sleep. Why? For His glory, to accomplish His will.
I am sure that you are. BUT, just as real as what you say is to you I may also say to you that I have personally seen the opposite take place.
I have personally heard a believer testify that during the night, God removed her aching tooth and replaced it with a GOLD tooth while she was asleep.
I have personally heard one well meaning lady testify that she closed her eyes while driving through Atlanta Ga. and allowed the Holy Spirit to drive her car.
All I am saying and if we would be totally honest here, I believe that we all have seen people exergerate their experience in order to look more spiritual than anyone else. This phenoninon is very powerful and it is very dangereous as well.
You are very correct. I personally admire our friends devotion and faith even though most of think that it is mis-placed.
Remember.......the "name it and claim it" belief is not a basic in our salvation simply an error in understanding the Word of God.
Well said and I agree with you.
I do not know of anyone here on this site they enjoys argueing and confrontation. Most everyone wants to see their brothers/sisters in Christ grow in faith and knowledge and when advice is given it is for the edification of the individual and to the the glory of God.
Everyone on this site has experience death of a loved one, the suffering of a sickness, and the pain of disapointment.
But most know that all of that is part of life and bad things happen to good people because we are alive in a world dominated by sin.
Everyone has prayed for a loved one to be healed but we then saw that loved one die. We KNOW that God does not answer every single prayer the way we want it answered BUT we also know that God gives us the ability to accept whatever answer He sees fit to give.
So then...........to use Bible verses back and forth to substainciate our belief is very counterproductive and serves no purpose whatsoever. You see, we all can make a Bible verse say what we want it to say but that is NOT BIBLE study.
We must understand the Scriptures in "context" along with the God given help of the Holy Spirit as He teaches us the truth of the WORD of God NOT what some denominational or PERSONAL belief we have convinced ourselves is Biblical.