The Prodigal

Whenever I have a vision or a dream that feels real, I feel like you did. There is a recent thread on this forum talking on astral travel and how its unscriptural. I see earlier in this thread that you mention re-incarnation. Just something to consider there is that fallen angels have been with us from day 1. When we are possessed I believe they are able to give us their memories of the past, making us feel as though we were actually there. Re-incarnation is completely unscriptural.

Hi KingJ. As I am not aware of what your past dreams and visions were, I can't speak to who or what gave them to you. I can say that my seeing God was no dream. I thought it was a dream because I could prove that I was out of my body. I doubt anyone would have taken as long as I did to learn the truth. But I can say that God knew me well then as now and he had a purpose I did not discover until I was 59. I am a bit of an artist and when I tell you I saw colors that do not exist here, I know the difference. I haven't told this story many times (fingers of one hand) but a few I considered mentors said, "Oh you didn't see God. You saw a guide or an angel. " I was never so arrogant to insist I did but I know what I felt during the vision and no fallen angel was responsible for what went on. Still, I might have given more thought to this until age 59 but never after. By the way, dreams and visions are very much scriptural. I was not referring to "astral travel" in my post. I had no control of being out of body or in body.The bliss and rapture I felt caused this to happen. I will say that for years I thought the OOBE was the more significant feature because I could "prove it". How silly does that seem to me now. Even after 20 plus years the whole thing made not alot of sense because I could not recall anything that was said to me. I understand it now. I have my knowledge and have been shown truth but it is personal and I don't expect you to accept my say-so. Go to God and ask him for yourself and I am certain he will show you if you have the eyes and ears to see and hear it. Regarding the reincarnation post, please go back and read it because the bottom line is that I more or less agree with you. I said I "leaned toward it" because of a dream. I don't have any proofs, per se, of reincarnation. I brought up the near death experience as well as reincarnation because there is a powerful amount of writing on it and it shows that WE DO NOT DIE when we leave the temporal body. We, as souls go somewhere. Call it whatever you like but it is not just heaven and hell. Aside from the fact that we cannot as souls go to heaven or hell until Judgement, according to scripture that would give individual souls time, after body death, to continue to have a chance of returning to God. I am told that it is slower and harder but can be done. Up until you accept the mark of the beast, there ARE second chances and I guess we will have to agree to disagree. What we both agree on is that getting saved while you are still alive is THE best way
 
No......I do not bash and do not want to be bashed. Life is to hard and too short to live like that. All I try to do here is allow my experience and knowledge to help people as yourself to understand the Scriptures and then allow YOU to may the correct Biblical choices in your life and in your understanding.

Lets see if we can help you through this. If you will allow me............

Matthew 16:28 belongs to chapter 17 and actually should be the first verse of chapter #17, because it is the account of the Transfiguration of Jesus. The Transfiguration explains clearly what He meant when He made the statement in verse #28. Remember that the key to proper understanding the Bible is always.......CONTEXT.......anyay----

Matthew 16:28
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

This was fulfilled for the apostles in the Transfiguration of Jesus. The Transfiguration is that picture of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom. The statement here referrred to the 3 disciples who were present, Peter, James and John and their experience on the mount of Transfuguration when those 3 men witnessed the glory of Jesus as Moses and Elijah came down to talk with Him. Those 3 disciples at thet time 'SAW THE SON OF MAN COMING IN HIS KINGDOM".

Your comment then was.............
Revelation tells us that until you accept the mark of the beast, you still have a chance and and can return to God.

The last book in the Bible that you would want to look at for salvation doctrine is probably the Revelation.
Time and space will not allow me to dig into that. Simply know that the peopl of whom are alive at the time you are referring to will mostly be Jews whom God is dealing with then. But what it is not is a SECOND chance. THese people have never heard the gospel and are NOT saved so the thought of a SECOND chance is not in view at all. Then can come to Christ and be saved by faith in the Lord Jesus and they are then saved for the FIRST time so long as they do not accept the Mark of the Beast.

Your comment was.....
I think with the new covenant made when Christ died for our sins, that mankind as a whole was given a reprieve.

No so my friend. A "reprieve from what"??? The only teo things we can consider Biblically would be the Law and Grace....correct?

Grace is not a reprieve from the Law. The New Covenant is better than the Old one.

Hebrews 8:6...........
"But now hath he (Christ) obtained a more excellent ministry by how much he also is the mediator of a BETTER Covenant which was established upon better promises".

God gave the Law to Moses and then He gave him instructions for the tabernacle and its functions and service. It was there at the tabernacle that sin was dealt with. Remember..........NO ONE WAS EVER SAVED BY KEEPING THE LAW!!!! No one ever came to God and said............"I have kept all of Your commandments therefore receive me".

NOT SO. They were continually bringing sacrifices to the tabernacle because they had continually sinned.
The Law did not save them from sin but revealed to them that they had in fact sinned. Christ is now the great High Priest and the sacrifice of His life and shedding of His blood save us the first time we believe and accept Him.

Then your comment was..................
I don’t know for a fact, but I lean to reincarnation because I was given a dream that eerily showed that I had been reincarnated.

As I have already stated........REJECT DREAMS and here is the reason why clear as day. What your mind said to you while sleeping is absolutely in disagreement with the Word of God. The Bible in no way what so ever teaches reincarnation. The Word of God teaches RESURRECTION not reincarnation.

Hebrews 9:27
King James Version (KJV)
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"..

Then you stated..........
But the 2 apostles that knew him say there are second chances. Revelation tells us in the end days, the dead
will rise.

Which two apostles would that be and what was it they said about a second chance?
Please list the Bible book, chapter and verse and I will respond to it.
As for the Revelation telling us that the dead will rise, that is true but you did not complete the "CONTEXT" Truth is always in the CONTEXT. The Revelation tells us clearly that the lost dead souls will be resurrected for judgment, NOT a SECOND CHANCE.
Revelation 20:12-15
King James Version (KJV)
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice that there is NO ONE found who is given a second chance. This is the judgment of the lost after their bodies are resurrected from the grave.

Then you comment was........................
The souls freed from their temporal body are going somewhere. There are about a million (slight exaggeration) Ghost Hunter type programs on a wide range of channels. They have proved, in my estimation that there is life beyond death. Most of these ghosts are afraid to go into the light (cross over) because of something they did in life.

Who says that???? "The souls are freed from there temporal bodies are going some where???

Please read and study Luke 16 my dear friend. The souls of the lost go to the "TORMENTS" compartment of Hades. They are not freed to go anywhere. They are resurrected to their bodies as we jusr saw in Revelation 20 after the 1000 year rule of Christ and that is for judgment to the lake of fire, NOT A SECOND CHANCE.

TV show that pander to a certain pre-conceived opinion does not in any way constitute truth. Yes, there is life after death..................in heaven with the Lord or in hell with the devil. That is the only two places the Bible teaches. Everything else is what someone thinks or dreams and there is a real problem when we start to believe what a man says.

Now I pray that the Lord will bless you and I do hope this has helped you. The point is this........read, study the Bible and use it as your source of knowledge. NOT what TV says or other people tell you.

My dear friend, please hear me when I say that there is no SECOND chance after death. Death removes all choices that we could have had when alive.

Again, I have gone overlong and I'm not finished - expect more


Hey Major. I was gone for a few days, did you miss me and my exasperating ways? (twinkle). If not for you, I probably wouldn’t still be here. I would have gone on, wiping the proverbial dirt from my feet, thinking that I had misunderstood God’s direction. So now when everyone else gets perturbed they can blame you too (grin). I left you all with one of my most precious, most treasured memories, knowing that most all of you thought “whack job.”

I was admitted to the hospital last Saturday. I thought I was dying. (Silk <ß------drama queen). I think it was all that talk about Baptism. I soooo want to be baptized now where I can remember – that I am awake and conscious. I thought about how I might accomplish this. Did I need to turn Baptist or could I go back to pick and chooser status after? Would that be dishonest? I fell asleep thinking about this and woke up to find myself totally soaked in my own sweat. I went to a doctor’s appt. that they cancelled, on Friday and asked to see someone. They finally brought out a nurse who pronounced, go home and make an appt. for Monday. The next day, if possible, I felt worse and my brother dropped me off at the emergency room. The doctor asked me what was wrong and I told him I thought I was dying. They ran a gazillion tests and decided I was badly dehydrated. But concerns kept popping up and then disappearing. At the end of the day, after I was admitted, the doc came to talk to me. As he was walking away, he turned back, shook his head, thought about it and said, “ I thought so too.” “What?” I asked. “That you were going to die. It’s a real deal with what a difference a day makes because you look alive now.”

My roommate was there before me and I asked what she was in for. She told me dehydration. I thought “aha!” The difference between us seemed to be that she was hooked up to an IV but they were giving her a diuretic and then wondered why she was wetting the bed to the tune of 15-20 times per day. Exasperated, I finally told the nurse that she wasn’t doing this on purpose. I had timed them and there was 10-15 minute delay in responding. She was trying to find some way to resolve things by calling for a bed pan ahead of time and not going and or sitting in her own pee for hours until she could get someone’s attention. Eventually the medical staff were happy to change her linens. She began to call me by her name, Karen, which I kinda liked. She couldn’t hear well. When I was admitted, I filled out the protestant services thingy. On Sunday, the priest came straight to me and asked communion? Blessing? I said, a blessing would be nice but he looked at me sternly so I said ok then communion. He gave me communion and rushed out the door, with my neighbor wanting her priest. Talk about feeling guilty. I made a deal about trying to get him back for her without success. When a different priest was going to ignore her again, the next day, I told the nurse to stop him and then told him she wants communion. Whenever she was bullied I butted right in. When she understood I was being discharged (Thursday). She told me, Í’m gonna miss you. I smiled at her and said just get well. She had a few teardrops and said, “ you don’t understand…” “I’m gonna miss you for the rest of my life.” We both knew we would not meet again. It’s probably the nicest thing anyone ever told me.

I had my micro laptop with me. No emails after leaving my soul bare on the forum (drama queen remember). Pride, I guess, kept me from looking. I must be doing something wrong because there were posts, just no emails telling me so. I felt a wee bit hurt (teensy teensy) but then I got to hear you, exasperated at me (per usual) praying for my soul’s salvation. It takes a rare sweetness of soul to care about someone else’s salvation almost as much as your own, without proselytizing or bashing someone over the head. Kudos.

One more thing happened during my stay. On Wednesday, they admitted a woman across the hall and a few doors down. She grew hoarse with shouting, yelling, broad casting hurt and pain and anger. She kept me up most of the night with her soul searing pain. I couldn’t actually hear what she was saying but someone in the room was responding to her. Medical staff stayed with her all night but they weren’t talking. I asked the nurse what’s up with that. She rolled her eyes and said we can close the door if she bothers you again. Closing the door wouldn’t have helped and we both knew it. She said that her family had her on minimal pain medication and no sedatives for relief. The medical staff all felt she was going out of her mind with the pain. She said, “I don’t judge and I know sometimes you just have to accept and move on. Besides that evil and hate surrounded her. She’s really nasty”. It was like hearing the cries of the damned all night long. I don’t care what she did in life, no one should be put through that (ok maybe Hitler and Mengeles but no one else)

That is my near death experience. Does it count?
 
Again, I have gone overlong and I'm not finished - expect more


Hey Major. I was gone for a few days, did you miss me and my exasperating ways? (twinkle). If not for you, I probably wouldn’t still be here. I would have gone on, wiping the proverbial dirt from my feet, thinking that I had misunderstood God’s direction. So now when everyone else gets perturbed they can blame you too (grin). I left you all with one of my most precious, most treasured memories, knowing that most all of you thought “whack job.”

I was admitted to the hospital last Saturday. I thought I was dying. (Silk <ß------drama queen). I think it was all that talk about Baptism. I soooo want to be baptized now where I can remember – that I am awake and conscious. I thought about how I might accomplish this. Did I need to turn Baptist or could I go back to pick and chooser status after? Would that be dishonest? I fell asleep thinking about this and woke up to find myself totally soaked in my own sweat. I went to a doctor’s appt. that they cancelled, on Friday and asked to see someone. They finally brought out a nurse who pronounced, go home and make an appt. for Monday. The next day, if possible, I felt worse and my brother dropped me off at the emergency room. The doctor asked me what was wrong and I told him I thought I was dying. They ran a gazillion tests and decided I was badly dehydrated. But concerns kept popping up and then disappearing. At the end of the day, after I was admitted, the doc came to talk to me. As he was walking away, he turned back, shook his head, thought about it and said, “ I thought so too.” “What?” I asked. “That you were going to die. It’s a real deal with what a difference a day makes because you look alive now.”

My roommate was there before me and I asked what she was in for. She told me dehydration. I thought “aha!” The difference between us seemed to be that she was hooked up to an IV but they were giving her a diuretic and then wondered why she was wetting the bed to the tune of 15-20 times per day. Exasperated, I finally told the nurse that she wasn’t doing this on purpose. I had timed them and there was 10-15 minute delay in responding. She was trying to find some way to resolve things by calling for a bed pan ahead of time and not going and or sitting in her own pee for hours until she could get someone’s attention. Eventually the medical staff were happy to change her linens. She began to call me by her name, Karen, which I kinda liked. She couldn’t hear well. When I was admitted, I filled out the protestant services thingy. On Sunday, the priest came straight to me and asked communion? Blessing? I said, a blessing would be nice but he looked at me sternly so I said ok then communion. He gave me communion and rushed out the door, with my neighbor wanting her priest. Talk about feeling guilty. I made a deal about trying to get him back for her without success. When a different priest was going to ignore her again, the next day, I told the nurse to stop him and then told him she wants communion. Whenever she was bullied I butted right in. When she understood I was being discharged (Thursday). She told me, Í’m gonna miss you. I smiled at her and said just get well. She had a few teardrops and said, “ you don’t understand…” “I’m gonna miss you for the rest of my life.” We both knew we would not meet again. It’s probably the nicest thing anyone ever told me.

I had my micro laptop with me. No emails after leaving my soul bare on the forum (drama queen remember). Pride, I guess, kept me from looking. I must be doing something wrong because there were posts, just no emails telling me so. I felt a wee bit hurt (teensy teensy) but then I got to hear you, exasperated at me (per usual) praying for my soul’s salvation. It takes a rare sweetness of soul to care about someone else’s salvation almost as much as your own, without proselytizing or bashing someone over the head. Kudos.

One more thing happened during my stay. On Wednesday, they admitted a woman across the hall and a few doors down. She grew hoarse with shouting, yelling, broad casting hurt and pain and anger. She kept me up most of the night with her soul searing pain. I couldn’t actually hear what she was saying but someone in the room was responding to her. Medical staff stayed with her all night but they weren’t talking. I asked the nurse what’s up with that. She rolled her eyes and said we can close the door if she bothers you again. Closing the door wouldn’t have helped and we both knew it. She said that her family had her on minimal pain medication and no sedatives for relief. The medical staff all felt she was going out of her mind with the pain. She said, “I don’t judge and I know sometimes you just have to accept and move on. Besides that evil and hate surrounded her. She’s really nasty”. It was like hearing the cries of the damned all night long. I don’t care what she did in life, no one should be put through that (ok maybe Hitler and Mengeles but no one else)

That is my near death experience. Does it count?

Thanks for the compliment.........it was very nice and I appreciate it.

As for a near death experience..........I just do not know if that counts. I am probably not the one to decide such things as they tend to be very fluid.

Being an Army combat veteran, I have seen some things that were totally unexplinable except for the miracle working ability of God. I too have heard the cries of the suffering ones in pain.

My only answer is that in life we ALL weill suffer to some degree or another, some more and some less. What is the important thing through all of that s NOT whether God will heal us of our pain and suffering......
BUT HAVE WE ALLOWED JESUS CHRIST TO HEAL US OF SIN?????

One of my dearest friends died about 10 years ago. She was a saint of God but suffered terribly with a heart condition. She screamed and yelled in pain for 2 days before passing. The doctors gave her everything for pain but none of it helped her.

Then 7 years ago, my own father who was also a saint of God passed in his sleep with no pain at all. WHY the differance????? I wish I knew.
 
Hey Major (waves and smiles). You do know I was teasing about the near death experience, don't you? Although now that I think of it... (shrug). I was dead serious about craving a baptism. In the state of consciousness I am in, I want to experience everything anew and I drool at the thought of the holy spirit enveloping me and cleansing my soul. I also think that probably the experience would send me straight to heaven. (Methodists - Unite. The Baptists are trying to steal me).
Alas, I m back with my exasperating ways. Please, I beg, read me very clearly. I am forbidden to lie or even exaggerate. In the next while, many, many people are destined to leave their temporal body and I cannot allow you to deprive them of their last hope. We live in a very wicked world where deceit and lies rule the day. If they think, upon death, that they are already lost, it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy and they will act accordingly. Alarm bells should be ringing and yet there is silence. Pick 1000 biblical scholars and true believers - pick 10,000, or even 100,000 and Satan will beat you all in this debate. His advantage is that he was there when it was written and he knows which parts are muddy and misleading that he put there. Looking at the history of the bible and how it was put together over time, we are shown contradictions that everyone seems to ignore. Mark, Luke, Paul,and Timothy DID NOT know the living Christ. This is not to say that they weren't holy people or that what they said should be ignored. Only Matthew and John knew the living Christ. Most biblical scholars will tell you that none of the books were written by those it is attributed to. Matthew 10:2-4, tells us that there 12 disciples - none of them named Mark, Luke and Paul. Why are you not outraged that most of the new testament was written by people who did not know the livng Christ? The truth of the matter is that all Chrisitians follow the Pauline tradition, established by the Catholics, who were the only viable majority sect that was allowed to keep functioning.
You say that Matthew 16:28 is clear about 3 apostles witnessing Christ meeting with Moses and Elijah as part of the explanation that they saw Christ coming into his kingdom. (First of all, one wonders that the apostles would know what Moses and Elijah looked like 1000 years after their deaths.) Jesus tells us in the same passage that Elijah was re-incarnated as John the Baptist. You Do know that those little italic headings are not part of scripture and that they were added with the Protestant Reformtion, over a 1000 years after Christ's death. Remove the heading and what have you got? That Jesus met with Moses and Elijah as equals. But wait - they are not equal. Scripture also tells us that Jesus could not access his kingdom until AFTER the resurrection. A moot point, I grant you as those 3 apostles saw his death. I hope this shows you why the text is not as clear to me as it is you. Matthew and John both tell us there ARE second chances and the cut off is the mark of the beast. I exhort you to re-read the bible with new eyes.
 
I can't say that there are no "second chances" with absolute certainty but the Bible says absent from the body, present with Christ. Time is irrelevant. Coming here, going there, not my concern except that my Lord Jesus knows me by name. Time is short and fleeting and only relevant to our current perspective. Praise God, when I am done with this earthly vessel He will welcome me into His Wonderful Presence. May you find The Truth you seek.
 
You truly are covered by Grace, aren't you? And I am sincerely happy that you need no second chances. In a life where I squandered energy gone riot, I feel like an engine who has used all their gas up, at the start line, before the race has begun. Now that energy is required, I find I am dry and struggle to do the easiest of things. Actually, my desire is the same as yours - to rest and revel in my maker's embrace but I have miles to go before I sleep.
 
Looking at the history of the bible and how it was put together over time, we are shown contradictions that everyone seems to ignore. Mark, Luke, Paul,and Timothy DID NOT know the living Christ. This is not to say that they weren't holy people or that what they said should be ignored. Only Matthew and John knew the living Christ. Most biblical scholars will tell you that none of the books were written by those it is attributed to. Matthew 10:2-4, tells us that there 12 disciples - none of them named Mark, Luke and Paul. Why are you not outraged that most of the new testament was written by people who did not know the livng Christ?

Why should we be outraged about the composition of the New Testament? Wasn't the entire Old Testament written by those who had not known the living Christ? By which I take it you mean the incarnate Christ during His 33 years on Earth. Did not Paul have his own encounter with the living Christ and was he not accepted by the original apostles? I don't find it strange that the Holy Spirit was able to properly inspire and instruct the New Testament writers as effectively as He did those of the Old Testament. Even those who had walked with Christ didn't seem to understand what He was about until after the resurrection, when he made His appearances and when He sent the Holy Spirit.
 
I did indeed mean the years Christ was here on earth. My point being that while Paul had a vision, he did not know Christ when he was here. The difference being that are you hearing something second hand or the 100th hand and which might have more value. I agree with you that, whoever wrote what, when and where was divinely inspired and the truth can still be found there but I will point out to you, that since day one, it seems, man has inclined to interpetations of the word that are misleading. To spout scripture to back your point of view, led to such things as God approved the institution of slavery. I guess you are right after all, your outrage should be against man's interpetation of the word as scripture itself. My best guess is that all of the old testament figures knew Christ, before, during and after his sojourn here. He has existed all time, has he not?
 
Hey Major (waves and smiles). You do know I was teasing about the near death experience, don't you? Although now that I think of it... (shrug). I was dead serious about craving a baptism. In the state of consciousness I am in, I want to experience everything anew and I drool at the thought of the holy spirit enveloping me and cleansing my soul. I also think that probably the experience would send me straight to heaven. (Methodists - Unite. The Baptists are trying to steal me).
Alas, I m back with my exasperating ways. Please, I beg, read me very clearly. I am forbidden to lie or even exaggerate. In the next while, many, many people are destined to leave their temporal body and I cannot allow you to deprive them of their last hope. We live in a very wicked world where deceit and lies rule the day. If they think, upon death, that they are already lost, it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy and they will act accordingly. Alarm bells should be ringing and yet there is silence. Pick 1000 biblical scholars and true believers - pick 10,000, or even 100,000 and Satan will beat you all in this debate. His advantage is that he was there when it was written and he knows which parts are muddy and misleading that he put there. Looking at the history of the bible and how it was put together over time, we are shown contradictions that everyone seems to ignore. Mark, Luke, Paul,and Timothy DID NOT know the living Christ. This is not to say that they weren't holy people or that what they said should be ignored. Only Matthew and John knew the living Christ. Most biblical scholars will tell you that none of the books were written by those it is attributed to. Matthew 10:2-4, tells us that there 12 disciples - none of them named Mark, Luke and Paul. Why are you not outraged that most of the new testament was written by people who did not know the livng Christ? The truth of the matter is that all Chrisitians follow the Pauline tradition, established by the Catholics, who were the only viable majority sect that was allowed to keep functioning.
You say that Matthew 16:28 is clear about 3 apostles witnessing Christ meeting with Moses and Elijah as part of the explanation that they saw Christ coming into his kingdom. (First of all, one wonders that the apostles would know what Moses and Elijah looked like 1000 years after their deaths.) Jesus tells us in the same passage that Elijah was re-incarnated as John the Baptist. You Do know that those little italic headings are not part of scripture and that they were added with the Protestant Reformtion, over a 1000 years after Christ's death. Remove the heading and what have you got? That Jesus met with Moses and Elijah as equals. But wait - they are not equal. Scripture also tells us that Jesus could not access his kingdom until AFTER the resurrection. A moot point, I grant you as those 3 apostles saw his death. I hope this shows you why the text is not as clear to me as it is you. Matthew and John both tell us there ARE second chances and the cut off is the mark of the beast. I exhort you to re-read the bible with new eyes.

God bless you and I hope I can answer your questions for you. The problem for me is that you run all you comments together with no breaks in one long parargraph. It would be better to list a couple at a time.....focus on those and then move on to another. But we will make the attempt.

Comment was........
We live in a very wicked world where deceit and lies rule the day. If they think, upon death, that they are already lost, it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy and they will act accordingly.

Correct! ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God. All men are born with a sin nature and all men sin.
We are depraved and doomed and destined for hell BUT God who in His great mercy has loved us and paid our penality for sin which is death. NO thinks that they are lost..........they are lost ALREADY according to the Word of God in John 3:17-18.

Your comment was.......
Looking at the history of the bible and how it was put together over time, we are shown contradictions that everyone seems to ignore.

What one calls "contradiction", another would call a "lack of learning and deep study to find the truth".

Your comment was.......
I also think that probably the experience would send me straight to heaven. (Methodists - Unite. The Baptists are trying to steal me).

Not so. There is NO salvation in being baptized. Salvation is in Jesus the Christ, NOT water.
 
God bless you and I hope I can answer your questions for you. The problem for me is that you run all you comments together with no breaks in one long parargraph. It would be better to list a couple at a time.....focus on those and then move on to another. But we will make the attempt.

Comment was........
We live in a very wicked world where deceit and lies rule the day. If they think, upon death, that they are already lost, it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy and they will act accordingly.

Correct! ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God. All men are born with a sin nature and all men sin.
We are depraved and doomed and destined for hell BUT God who in His great mercy has loved us and paid our penality for sin which is death. NO thinks that they are lost..........they are lost ALREADY according to the Word of God in John 3:17-18.

Your comment was.......
Looking at the history of the bible and how it was put together over time, we are shown contradictions that everyone seems to ignore.

What one calls "contradiction", another would call a "lack of learning and deep study to find the truth".

Your comment was.......
I also think that probably the experience would send me straight to heaven. (Methodists - Unite. The Baptists are trying to steal me).

Not so. There is NO salvation in being baptized. Salvation is in Jesus the Christ, NOT water.
 
Ooops. I was joking about about the Baptists trying to steal me, mentioned nothing about salvation brought about by Baptism. What I said was I want to be baptized again in the state I currently am in as I think it would be wonderful. You DO baptize to cleanse the sin, do you not???


ne could indeed. Have you studied the Zohar, the books of the Nag Hammadi library, the Talmud, the various (apocryphal) books of both Catholics Protestants and Jews? I can lend you whatever you might be missing. I've spent over 45 years studying spiritual matters. I amm to the point where I want to learn Hebrew so I can make the translations myself. (Rosetta Sttone on $600) and I'm lousy at languages. I'll match you on any learning lacks
 
And you used Love in the past tense. My last post left out your lack of learning quote as if you can't tell what I am responding to. I say again.... there is hope of redemption after corporal death
 
You truly are covered by Grace, aren't you? And I am sincerely happy that you need no second chances. In a life where I squandered energy gone riot, I feel like an engine who has used all their gas up, at the start line, before the race has begun. Now that energy is required, I find I am dry and struggle to do the easiest of things. Actually, my desire is the same as yours - to rest and revel in my maker's embrace but I have miles to go before I sleep.

Yes, I am not necessarily proud to say that after 33 years of trying to force a relationship with Jesus my way, on my terms, and in my own strength, He has finally gotten through to me....which is to say, I have had many, many chances, my friend. In fact, too many to count. :oops: But, that's what grace is all about. This life is not about me, it's about Him and His purposes. I am just the vessel and I need to, by faith, trust in Him - He's got this!

Jeremiah 17:7-8 (NKJV)
7 “Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord,
And whose hope is the Lord.
8 For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters,
Which spreads out its roots by the river,
And will not fear[a] when heat comes;
But its leaf will be green,
And will not be anxious in the year of drought,
Nor will cease from yielding fruit.
This morning, He reminded me that I wake up every day in a fresh dew of His mercy....it is my job, indeed my good pleasure, to walk in that mercy and tell of His wonderful grace along the path He has for me that day. Truth is, He only wants a relationship with us...good, bad and ugly. He loves us despite all of that. That, my friend, is ALL HIM. It was all Him when He spoke the light into being, it was Him who sent His Son, it was Him who paid the price, it was Him called you His, it is Him who will see you through, and it is Him who will call you by name. So, if it is all Him, then let it be ALL HIM. Purpose to admit to yourself, because He already knows, that He doesn't require your strength, only your faith, hope and love in Him. AND PRAISE GOD, that is the way it is, because if He left it up to me and my so-called strength, I'd already be a blown gasket at the starting line, hooked up to the wrecker and headed for the scrap yard!
And, resting in my Maker's embrace is my daily ritual...for without it, I would writhe in pain and worry. That's not to say, I don't worry or wander around whining for my Father at times like a lost toddler, that's only to say that my soul takes comfort in knowing I can go there anytime I want to. His embrace is what holds me together. No lie...I run there like a toddler who's knees are scraped on a daily basis. Not sure why He puts up with me anyways! LOL :p

Much love in Christ, my friend, on your quest for His Truth. May He bless you on your journey!
 
I say again.... there is hope of redemption after corporal death

It is very difficult to prove a negative. To say there is NO hope with absolute certainty because the Bible speaks of certain situations where there was clearly no hope, doesn't mean that there truly is no hope. Since God does not operate on a time schedule, could there be some portion of "time" after the physical body is devoid of the soul, where there might be hope, or a "second, third, fourth..." chance? I suppose there could be. Just like there could be other life forms in other portions of the Universe, yet to be discovered...but I digress. Too much time spent on the could, should, and would be's will lead down a winding path....we just need to BE concerned with Him and His Truth...the straight and narrow.

So, I say again...whether or not someone "wastes" their entire life or not, and is holding onto the hope that there is a "second" chance after they leave their body is not my concern as a follower of Jesus Christ. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
 
What a lovely post. I probably run to God more than you, in a day, and always wonder the same thing about why he puts up with me. What I was speaking to about resting in my maker's embrace was more about going home for good. I don't fear death because I know we don't die. But there is work for me still to do before I go. My struggles have always been my own bad habits - never with God. So I am curious what you mean about trying to have him adapt toward your ways and what made you stop fighting it? Thank you for your blessing (can use all I can get) and I have found my truth but there is always more to learn isn't there. I am counting on his strength because I have none of my own (ok I can be stubborn on occassion -willfull but always in a good cause.)
 
So, I say again...whether or not someone "wastes" their entire life or not, and is holding onto the hope that there is a "second" chance after they leave their body is not my concern as a follower of Jesus Christ. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Alas, I think it is our concern. We both know that not following God's will is a waste, whatever that entails, and no one does that thinking, let me have another chance, now that I know there is a heaven and hell and am dead. At least that's not what I am getting at. God wants what is good for us, and there are some people who go through life doing the good and moral thing without belief in God. Godly things are surely put in their way but they rebuff it because it's all they know to do. They aren't "bad" people. They make mistakes like we all do. I dislike dragging it in again but all the near death experiences I have read about that "go down" they describe a nighmarish landscape and being attacked by hellish beings. They call out to God (in every single case) and they are released back to life. But they are fundamentally changed forever. They become pastors, paint angels. My point being that it isn't too extravagant a stretch to think this happens to others who don't come back and are given a chance to return to God. But they have to call to him for this to happen. If they don't believe they can ask for this - they won't call. In the long run, no one saves someone else - everyone saves their own eternal life. So, I understand what you mean, when you say I have to let it go. You cannot force them to believe but you can show them. When I say we live in a world that is ruled by lies and deceit, we have all built and allowed this to happen and we are losing good people because good things are twisted and people are afraid to show "weakness". And my heart hurts for them and for God because he wants us all back. I have AWE of God, no fear.
 
My struggles have always been my own bad habits - never with God. So I am curious what you mean about trying to have him adapt toward your ways and what made you stop fighting it? Thank you for your blessing (can use all I can get) and I have found my truth but there is always more to learn isn't there. I am counting on his strength because I have none of my own (ok I can be stubborn on occassion -willfull but always in a good cause.)

I guess what I mean by that is I have been shown how to and I have tried to fit Him into the box called my mind and I have learned He is, and His ways are, too big for my understanding this side of His Presence. When any doubt comes (regarding Him being exactly who He says He is - and I am SURE that He knows who He is), I push it away, I don't engage it and therefore I don't fight it. ANYTHING that sets itself up against God is doomed to fail. (I intentionally bolded the word "imaginations" below. Notice that it says the imagination can exalt itself against the knowledge of God...)

2 Corinthians 10:5-7 (KJV)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.
Further, since I am a Gentile, not subject to the law and it's right punishment, having been grafted into the Vine by the Vinedresser, I have a New Covenant and all I have to hold on to is His mercy and grace. That, I will NEVER understand this side of His Presence. I used to beat myself up over succumbing to a bad habit...insistent on living under the law!! The law was given so that we would realize just how much we need Him. Finally, finally, finally, 33 years later, I believe Him when He said it is finished....it truly is finished in the heavenly realm.

Galatians 3:21-23 (NIV)
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.

(sorry, my bolding, again)

Sweet freedom and release to love him with my whole being without reservation, without wondering if I am accepted by Him. Experiencing such a great love has drawn me to Him and has changed my motives, and thus my choices and actions, and subsequently my life. He has sealed me and onward I press toward the mark He has set before me. That's all I can do and praise God, that's all He expects me to do. Press on. Keep on. He will be the One who works all things out for His glory and our good.

Blessings to you! :)
 
Thanks for your reply and blessing. I never thought I would understand God, as a child, growing up or now as an old fuddy duddy - it's impossible. Every once in awhile I have seen a small glimpse, of a tiny corner, like a rich woven tapestry of his design and I would just be in awe. I could barely make out some of the design on a small spot, so forget about seeing the whole thing. He made us out of love and he wants us back with that love still shining. (splashing Grace with wishes for her good health and safety)
 
Ooops. I was joking about about the Baptists trying to steal me, mentioned nothing about salvation brought about by Baptism. What I said was I want to be baptized again in the state I currently am in as I think it would be wonderful. You DO baptize to cleanse the sin, do you not???
ne could indeed. Have you studied the Zohar, the books of the Nag Hammadi library, the Talmud, the various (apocryphal) books of both Catholics Protestants and Jews? I can lend you whatever you might be missing. I've spent over 45 years studying spiritual matters. I amm to the point where I want to learn Hebrew so I can make the translations myself. (Rosetta Sttone on $600) and I'm lousy at languages. I'll match you on any learning lacks

Now how in the world would we measure that my friend???? AND why would we want or even need to???

You commented in a post that..........
Mark, Luke, Paul,and Timothy DID NOT know the living Christ.

Two of the four writers of the gospels, Matthew and John, knew Jesus personally because they were His disciples. They followed him and witnessed the things that they wrote about. Read about when Matthew began to follow Jesus in Matthew 9:9 and Mark 2:14 (Please note that Matthew has two names in the Bible; the other name is Levi). To read about when John began to follow Jesus, look up Matthew 4:21-22 and Mark 1:19-20. To read one of the lists given in the Bible of the names of the twelve apostles, look up Matthew 10:1-4. You will notice that Matthew and John's names are on this list.

A third writer is named Mark, but he is also called John. (The Bible verses provided explain this.) Mark might have known Jesus personally, but we do not have any evidence of that in Scripture. What we do know however, is that he was a very close associate and friend of the apostles and other disciples who were the closest to Jesus. Mark was in close fellowship with Peter and the other apostles and traveled with Paul on portions of his missionary journeys. No doubt that whatever he didn't know about Jesus from personal experience, he was able to find out from the apostles. You can read about Mark traveling with Paul on his missionary journeys in Acts 12:25, and 2 Timothy 4:11. The apostle Peter also stayed with Mark in his house in Acts 12:12.

The fourth and final writer is Luke. He explains in the beginning of the gospel that bears his name how he knew about Jesus. I would encourage you to read Luke 1:1-4, but I will only include verses 2 and 3 here: "Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus..." He said that he was an "eyewitness from the beginning" and that he "had perfect understanding of all things from the very first".

This tells us that Luke knew Jesus and had seen with his own eyes the things that he wrote about. We also know that Luke wrote Acts, travelled with Paul on his missionary journeys, and had much fellowship with the other apostles as well. If you read Luke's book entitled Acts, you will notice that the first 16 chapters are written in third person. In Chapter 16, verse 10, Luke joins the apostle Paul's company and travels with him during most of the remainder of Paul's life (Paul, nearing the end of his life, states in 2 Timothy 4:11 that only Luke was with him, and all others had forsaken him).

Timothy did not write any Scriptures and Paul of course met Jesus on the Imanmus Road and was taken to the 3rd heaven.
 
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