The Prodigal

Hey Major (waves and smiles). You do know I was teasing about the near death experience, don't you? Although now that I think of it... (shrug). I was dead serious about craving a baptism. In the state of consciousness I am in, I want to experience everything anew and I drool at the thought of the holy spirit enveloping me and cleansing my soul. I also think that probably the experience would send me straight to heaven. (Methodists - Unite. The Baptists are trying to steal me).
Alas, I m back with my exasperating ways. Please, I beg, read me very clearly. I am forbidden to lie or even exaggerate. In the next while, many, many people are destined to leave their temporal body and I cannot allow you to deprive them of their last hope. We live in a very wicked world where deceit and lies rule the day. If they think, upon death, that they are already lost, it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy and they will act accordingly. Alarm bells should be ringing and yet there is silence. Pick 1000 biblical scholars and true believers - pick 10,000, or even 100,000 and Satan will beat you all in this debate. His advantage is that he was there when it was written and he knows which parts are muddy and misleading that he put there. Looking at the history of the bible and how it was put together over time, we are shown contradictions that everyone seems to ignore. Mark, Luke, Paul,and Timothy DID NOT know the living Christ. This is not to say that they weren't holy people or that what they said should be ignored. Only Matthew and John knew the living Christ. Most biblical scholars will tell you that none of the books were written by those it is attributed to. Matthew 10:2-4, tells us that there 12 disciples - none of them named Mark, Luke and Paul. Why are you not outraged that most of the new testament was written by people who did not know the livng Christ? The truth of the matter is that all Chrisitians follow the Pauline tradition, established by the Catholics, who were the only viable majority sect that was allowed to keep functioning.
You say that Matthew 16:28 is clear about 3 apostles witnessing Christ meeting with Moses and Elijah as part of the explanation that they saw Christ coming into his kingdom. (First of all, one wonders that the apostles would know what Moses and Elijah looked like 1000 years after their deaths.) Jesus tells us in the same passage that Elijah was re-incarnated as John the Baptist. You Do know that those little italic headings are not part of scripture and that they were added with the Protestant Reformtion, over a 1000 years after Christ's death. Remove the heading and what have you got? That Jesus met with Moses and Elijah as equals. But wait - they are not equal. Scripture also tells us that Jesus could not access his kingdom until AFTER the resurrection. A moot point, I grant you as those 3 apostles saw his death. I hope this shows you why the text is not as clear to me as it is you. Matthew and John both tell us there ARE second chances and the cut off is the mark of the beast. I exhort you to re-read the bible with new eyes.

You said......
(First of all, one wonders that the apostles would know what Moses and Elijah looked like 1000 years after their deaths.) Jesus tells us in the same passage that Elijah was re-incarnated as John the Baptist. You Do know that those little italic headings are not part of scripture and that they were added with the Protestant Reformtion, over a 1000 years after Christ's death. Remove the heading and what have you got? That Jesus met with Moses and Elijah as equals. But wait - they are not equal. Scripture also tells us that Jesus could not access his kingdom until AFTER the resurrection.

Since Jesus TOOK the 3 men to the mountain top, it is accepted that He told the 3 who the two men were.

There is NO mention of reincarnation. The Bible only teaches resurrection!

You mean those little italittized words are NOT part of the original Scriptures????/Are you kidding me?????

Yes friend.....that is taught in Bible School in all Baptist churches.
 
Silk..........Believe me when I say that "one" of us needs to re-read the Scriptures my friend.

Now instead of making comments ............Please post the actual words of the Scripture, chapter and verse with your problem with it and I or someone here will be glad to help explain them to you.

If you would do a couple at a time I think we can all help you out.
 
I thought this would be easier (Silk<ß-------delusional optimist). I was told to come to this message board to find God’s people and was told I would lessen the burden I bear (tricksy Lord). It was my thought that if I just laid it on, no one would believe me and I earnestly wanted to do God’s will. Actually, I was hoping for a busier Board where people would ignore me and I could say I tried, Lord. Because I don’t want this, at all. If I never speak another word to you, my soul is safe and saved. Every time I come here, my soul is in danger because the worst thing you can do is mislead a group of people/souls. Moses did 99% of what God commanded and messed up on striking stone rather than yelling at it and he was denied the promised land. I’m no Moses. My communication with God is faulty because I am flawed and heir to what is human. I’m no more qualified to be his spokesman as anyone else, in fact I wish it was anyone else. I have been in pain all over my body for 10 years. Pain killers lessen it but do not erase it. ( a little cheese with that whine?). Only when I am asleep or in the presence of God is there surcease. And because I am flawed, in God’s presence, I get so excited I can’t hear what he says. So I am always unsure if I got it right. I wish no aggrandizement for hearing God, in fact I dread it. I yearn to keep my mouth shut but God didn’t make me that way. I thought I could show you with my learning, knowledge and charm what God wanted transmitted. (Pride goeth before a fall). I thought if I praised your positive aspects of soul you would wake but apparently all I did was wake your pride. Mea Culpa. (The lesson ALWAYs goes both ways – sigh.). It wasn’t until you stung my pride that I saw my error. (blew the hell out of my computer too which is why my response was so erratic). I was so sure showing you Matthew 17’s truth would wake you. In stead, first you thought, “how did I miss that?” to “I didn’t miss that.” To “ She’s wrong”.

If you want to help me, still, you can. Pray for me (not my salvation) and for your brethren’s salvation. God’s message is “You ARE your brother’s keeper.” It is the only thing that might help now that the nation is baking.
 
I thought this would be easier (Silk<ß-------delusional optimist). I was told to come to this message board to find God’s people and was told I would lessen the burden I bear (tricksy Lord). It was my thought that if I just laid it on, no one would believe me and I earnestly wanted to do God’s will. Actually, I was hoping for a busier Board where people would ignore me and I could say I tried, Lord. Because I don’t want this, at all. If I never speak another word to you, my soul is safe and saved. Every time I come here, my soul is in danger because the worst thing you can do is mislead a group of people/souls. Moses did 99% of what God commanded and messed up on striking stone rather than yelling at it and he was denied the promised land. I’m no Moses. My communication with God is faulty because I am flawed and heir to what is human. I’m no more qualified to be his spokesman as anyone else, in fact I wish it was anyone else. I have been in pain all over my body for 10 years. Pain killers lessen it but do not erase it. ( a little cheese with that whine?). Only when I am asleep or in the presence of God is there surcease. And because I am flawed, in God’s presence, I get so excited I can’t hear what he says. So I am always unsure if I got it right. I wish no aggrandizement for hearing God, in fact I dread it. I yearn to keep my mouth shut but God didn’t make me that way. I thought I could show you with my learning, knowledge and charm what God wanted transmitted. (Pride goeth before a fall). I thought if I praised your positive aspects of soul you would wake but apparently all I did was wake your pride. Mea Culpa. (The lesson ALWAYs goes both ways – sigh.). It wasn’t until you stung my pride that I saw my error. (blew the hell out of my computer too which is why my response was so erratic). I was so sure showing you Matthew 17’s truth would wake you. In stead, first you thought, “how did I miss that?” to “I didn’t miss that.” To “ She’s wrong”.

If you want to help me, still, you can. Pray for me (not my salvation) and for your brethren’s salvation. God’s message is “You ARE your brother’s keeper.” It is the only thing that might help now that the nation is baking.

I, for one, appreciate your honesty and willingness to openly share what has been laid on your heart. It's not easy to put yourself in a vulnerable position. And, your posts are full of personality! (CBG is nodding and smiling!)

You are right, we are our brother's keeper, to some degree. However, we are called to hold each other accountable, too, to what we (individually speaking) have been taught by the Scriptures...to not stray from what was first taught...to let Scripture interpret Scripture.

Please don't fall into the trap of holding it against someone that they are not at the same place as you are in your walk with Christ. When we finally arrive in His Presence, He will bring all things to light; we will understand even as we are understood. Until then, we all journey onward, each of us at our own pace. Blessings to you!
 
CBG, Hey (smile). May you continue to be covered with His Grace and spiritual gifts. Peacemaker, among them, I see – but there is no need as I blame no one but myself. I chose the method of delivery and I was wrong. I hope that you and those reading this will realize that no one gets to heaven for memorizing scripture – it has always been meant as a guide to living, thinking, questioning people.

I cannot promise I will return to the board as my message is delivered. I liked your board’s restrictions because I felt it protected me from exposure. God didn’t – so open the thread.
 
CBG, Hey (smile). May you continue to be covered with His Grace and spiritual gifts. Peacemaker, among them, I see – but there is no need as I blame no one but myself. I chose the method of delivery and I was wrong. I hope that you and those reading this will realize that no one gets to heaven for memorizing scripture – it has always been meant as a guide to living, thinking, questioning people.

I cannot promise I will return to the board as my message is delivered. I liked your board’s restrictions because I felt it protected me from exposure. God didn’t – so open the thread.

Then that would be a real loss or all of US. I for one agree with CBG in that your bubbly personality seeps through your comments. I am sad however that we may not be able to explain and converse over the Scriptures.

God bless you and keep you in the palm of His hand!


Major
 
CBG, Hey (smile). May you continue to be covered with His Grace and spiritual gifts. Peacemaker, among them, I see – but there is no need as I blame no one but myself. I chose the method of delivery and I was wrong. I hope that you and those reading this will realize that no one gets to heaven for memorizing scripture – it has always been meant as a guide to living, thinking, questioning people.

I cannot promise I will return to the board as my message is delivered. I liked your board’s restrictions because I felt it protected me from exposure. God didn’t – so open the thread.
Indeed, there is ONE way to heaven as revealed by the His Holy Spirit and as revealed by the knowledge of God in His Holy Scriptures and that is by true belief in His Son, Jesus Christ the Messiah. Everything else is supposed to be proverbial gravy. Memorization of the Scriptures, nor any other work of the human hand or mind can accomplish what only He could. I pray you and others who are entangled in the webs of the imagination will find clarity. Ultimately we who already know God must trust that God reveals Himself in due time and does not want even 1 to perish therefore He WILL accomplish this - no matter the cost. Trust Him only and don't concern and worry about # of chances, where or when...which is a futile. Pray, Pray, and Pray they don't wait til they are between here and there. No one knows when they will pass away from here to His Presence. Much love in Christ, my sister.
 
Hi Silk……I can agree with what you are saying as well regarding second chance : )

I am a Catholic, a Baptist, a Methodist, an Anglican….that is how I relate to other Christians….
My personal Christian belief: it is personal : )

I think people do not search for the Truth, what people really search is Happiness.
Try as we might to find Truth, we cannot…. it is the Truth that will find us.

And we Christians are already found! : )
…and the Way, the Truth, and the Life will surely keep us....

Although this discussion/ my agreement with you is only between us Christians : )
Paul himself admitted: he know in partwhile describing the most excellent of all: Love.

….. but if we are to share the good news to non-Christians, I think you agreed as well.

What we both agree on is that getting saved while you are still alive is THE best way
 
Hi Silk……I can agree with what you are saying as well regarding second chance : )

I am a Catholic, a Baptist, a Methodist, an Anglican….that is how I relate to other Christians….
My personal Christian belief: it is personal : )

I think people do not search for the Truth, what people really search is Happiness.
Try as we might to find Truth, we cannot…. it is the Truth that will find us.

And we Christians are already found! : )
…and the Way, the Truth, and the Life will surely keep us....

Although this discussion/ my agreement with you is only between us Christians : )
Paul himself admitted: he know in partwhile describing the most excellent of all: Love.

….. but if we are to share the good news to non-Christians, I think you agreed as well.

IMO the bottom line is what the Scriptures tell us in these matters.

When it comes to a second chance to be saved, there is what we want to believe and then there is what the Word of God clearly tells us.

Hebrews 9:27 ..........
Authorized Version we read: "It is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment" . The Revised Standard Version reads much the same way: "It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment."

We see here from the Bible that there is no room for the concept of reincarnation in a Bible-based religion. Everyone will die once and only once so there will be no rebirth in this world for people to "get another chance". Life is only one time around the flagpole. That in itself is important news for us to understand. Many people think that they can just keep on living over and over until they get it right and then they can get their reward. This verse tells us that such a philosophy is not correct, we are appointed to die once. There is no debate possible about this concept. The study on reincarnation is over. It exists only in people's minds. It is not a part of reality.

At this point you might ask, "Do you mean that all those people who believe in reincarnation are wrong?" Yes, that is exactly what I mean. "But they believe and base their whole life upon the concept of reincarnation. How can you say that they are wrong?" In the first place, believing something does not make it correct. Many people used to believe that the world was flat, but that did not make it so. In the second place, it is not I who say that reincarnation does not occur, it is the Bible which says so.

The Bible is God's word given to us, so it is God who tells us that reincarnation does not occur therefore there is NO SECOND CHANCE possible.

The second concept we see in this verse is that after that one physical death that we are all promised, there will be judgment. There is no purgatory for us to wait around in, there will be NO SECOND CHANCE but there will be judgment after we die. So what will be the verdict? Guilty. We are all guilty before almighty, holy God. There has never been anyone who earned his/her way into a not-guilty verdict. I used to think that there would be a weighing of the scales at judgment, and that if I had done enough good to outweigh the bad then I would be declared not guilty. But then as we have revealed to us a little understanding of how holy God is, we then begin to slowly understand that we can never produce the works to counterbalance the evil we have in our hearts.
 
we then begin to slowly understand that we can never produce the works to counterbalance the evil we have in our hearts.

Ah ok, the last line of your post made me understand now why you are strongly not in agreement with reincarnation/ second chance.

Reincarnation/ second chance is understood as man can produce the doing or learning or works that will result to his salvation…..

If that sense, I do not agree on that as well, but……

Aaa, I think no need to but…… since I do not believe in that as well, i no reason for me to but : )
 
Ah ok, the last line of your post made me understand now why you are strongly not in agreement with reincarnation/ second chance.

Reincarnation/ second chance is understood as man can produce the doing or learning or works that will result to his salvation…..

If that sense, I do not agree on that as well, but……

Aaa, I think no need to but…… since I do not believe in that as well, i no reason for me to but : )

My friend........again, it is NOT what I say but what God says in His written Word. I agree with what God said about reincarnation which is that there is no such thing. God teaches us RESURRECTION not reincarnation.

Your comment leaves me in limbo. I am not sure I understand what you were tring to say.

All I can say is to repeat what God said.

Ephesians 2:8
"For by grace are ye saved through faith and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God,
NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST".
 
Sorry for that confusing comment.

What I meant is it seems some Christians see some verses to support belief on reincarnation and at the same time doctrine of grace. That is: not mutually exclusive.

I do not know the verses… and I do not see a good reason to study it, more so to promote/share it….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation#Christianity

Christianity
Though the major Christian denominations reject the concept of reincarnation, a large number of Christians profess the belief. In a survey by the Pew Forum in 2009, 24% of American Christians expressed a belief in reincarnation.[134] In a 1981 Survey in Europe 31% of regular churchgoing Catholics expressed a belief in reincarnation.[135]

Geddes MacGregor, an Episcopalian priest who is Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the University of Southern California, Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature, a recipient of the California Literature Award (Gold Medal, non-fiction category), and the first holder of the Rufus Jones Chair in Philosophy and Religion at Bryn Mawr, demonstrates in his book Reincarnation in Christianity: A New Vision of the Role of Rebirth in Christian Thought,[136] that Christian doctrine and reincarnation are not mutually exclusive belief systems.
 
Sorry for that confusing comment.

What I meant is it seems some Christians see some verses to support belief on reincarnation and at the same time doctrine of grace. That is: not mutually exclusive.

I do not know the verses… and I do not see a good reason to study it, more so to promote/share it….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation#Christianity

Christianity
Though the major Christian denominations reject the concept of reincarnation, a large number of Christians profess the belief. In a survey by the Pew Forum in 2009, 24% of American Christians expressed a belief in reincarnation.[134] In a 1981 Survey in Europe 31% of regular churchgoing Catholics expressed a belief in reincarnation.[135]

Geddes MacGregor, an Episcopalian priest who is Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the University of Southern California, Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature, a recipient of the California Literature Award (Gold Medal, non-fiction category), and the first holder of the Rufus Jones Chair in Philosophy and Religion at Bryn Mawr, demonstrates in his book Reincarnation in Christianity: A New Vision of the Role of Rebirth in Christian Thought,[136] that Christian doctrine and reincarnation are not mutually exclusive belief systems.

So what you coming back as?
 
Sorry for that confusing comment.

What I meant is it seems some Christians see some verses to support belief on reincarnation and at the same time doctrine of grace. That is: not mutually exclusive.

I do not know the verses… and I do not see a good reason to study it, more so to promote/share it….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation#Christianity

Christianity
Though the major Christian denominations reject the concept of reincarnation, a large number of Christians profess the belief. In a survey by the Pew Forum in 2009, 24% of American Christians expressed a belief in reincarnation.[134] In a 1981 Survey in Europe 31% of regular churchgoing Catholics expressed a belief in reincarnation.[135]

Geddes MacGregor, an Episcopalian priest who is Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the University of Southern California, Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature, a recipient of the California Literature Award (Gold Medal, non-fiction category), and the first holder of the Rufus Jones Chair in Philosophy and Religion at Bryn Mawr, demonstrates in his book Reincarnation in Christianity: A New Vision of the Role of Rebirth in Christian Thought,[136] that Christian doctrine and reincarnation are not mutually exclusive belief systems.

You said..................
I do not know the verses… and I do not see a good reason to study it, more so to promote/share it….

Hear is the reason WHY we need to study and be ready to answer the question on reincarnation:


Though the major Christian denominations reject the concept of reincarnation, a large number of Christians profess the belief. In a survey by the Pew Forum in 2009, 24% of American Christians expressed a belief in reincarnation.[134] In a 1981 Survey in Europe 31% of regular churchgoing Catholics expressed a belief in reincarnation.[135]
 
Hebrews 9:27 pretty much covers it
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

If you claim to be Christian and also claim to support the notion of reincarnation, then there is something
very wrong with your thinking. The two are contradictory (despite what some two-bit philosophy professor may think).

One of the saddest things about higher education in the modern age is that it's only benefit seems to be the production of pompous twits who can say stupid things using bigger words.
 
it's only benefit seems to be the production of pompous twits who can say stupid things using bigger words.

You really love to say bombastic things… : )
Although there is one thing that is more sadder….. being sad when there is nothing to be sad of.
We cannot open the eyes of others… our role is just how say to things nicely, in lovingly way to others...
 
For many, kind words do compel. But for some, they being so blinded by their own arrogance, the only thing that gets their attention is a bloody nose.
You do remember all the lovely and kind things Jesus had to say to the Pharisees?
Something along the lines of "blind guides", "vipers", and "whited sepulchres".

It is likely a result of a lack of humility on my part, but I have a deep seated loathing of those who do
to their education or high position speak from positions of authority and say things that they should very well know are NONSENSE.
 
For many, kind words do compel. But for some, they being so blinded by their own arrogance, the only thing that gets their attention is a bloody nose.
You do remember all the lovely and kind things Jesus had to say to the Pharisees?
Something along the lines of "blind guides", "vipers", and "whited sepulchres".

It is likely a result of a lack of humility on my part, but I have a deep seated loathing of those who do
to their education or high position speak from positions of authority and say things that they should very well know are NONSENSE.

As Otis used to say on the Andy Griffin show about how to make his wife understand him........
"Hit them in the mouth with a leg of lamb".
 
I was asleep, in my father’s house, when I heard him calling me urgently out of my slumbers. He told me to “Hurry, quick. The house is on fire. Go save your brothers and sisters.”

I raced, heart pumping, to gather my siblings and bring them to my Father. I was struggling to wake the younger ones, when my older brother stepped forward. He said, “What is this? This should not be happening. I am oldest and Father would have come to me first, if this were so. Also, I am male and you are but a female.” Another brother piped up, “I know all Father’s rules and laws, He would have come to me first.” A sister poked this brother and said, “I am prettier than all of you, it would be me He asked.” Another sister said, “I am most fertile, as a mother He would have come to me first.” “Wait,” said another brother, “I have the most wisdom, He would have come to me first.”

We argued like this while the house burned down about our ears. Finally, when we all heard Him calling us, I wondered if we had waited too long.
 
We argued like this while the house burned down about our ears. Finally, when we all heard Him calling us, I wondered if we had waited too long.
Seems to me your father should have sent the fire department instead of leaving you all to squabble.:rolleyes:
Your father, by his lack of pro-activity put at risk the lives of all his children.

Our Heavenly Father sent in His Son to rescue us instead of leaving us to face incineration by attempting our own salvation.
 
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