Those who may exhibit confusion are those who deny the rapture of the saints, but the first resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the rapture. I know you know this.
The Raptures (Harpazo) of the Scriptures
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Those who may exhibit confusion are those who deny the rapture of the saints, but the first resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the rapture. I know you know this.
Yes, I do know this since that is what the bible says.
Read the first post.
Sorry Euphemia, like Mykhul, I initially read what you posted the same. The dead are resurrected first and I think that they get their changed bodies then, and the people who are still living get taken up without experiencing death. But I think we all mean the same thing?
The Thomas Ice video gives a good separation of rapture scripture and 2nd Coming scripture and elsewhere does a good graphic on the differences between the rapture and the 2nd coming, as to timing.
He notes that he has heard the rape/rapture comments before and that in context makes no sense, altho rape and rapture both come from the same root word - they are NEVER associated in usage.
The Thomas Ice video gives a good separation of rapture scripture and 2nd Coming scripture and elsewhere does a good graphic on the differences between the rapture and the 2nd coming, as to timing.
He notes that he has heard the rape/rapture comments before and that in context makes no sense, altho rape and rapture both come from the same root word - they are NEVER associated in usage.
Yes, we all seem to be referring to the same events. The dead in Christ are resurrected to glorification and immediately thereafter, the living in Christ are translated to glorification. It's the event that the word of God calls the first resurrection.
Hahaha! Nice! I like that little analogy [emoji23]I look at it like this: the dead are buried and under our feet. They are raised first and like a squeegee on a window, when it hits the other drops, they're all pulled up together. When the _ ends up like this | then we all go together
Thanks. I'm a simple man. I need those kinds of analogies
What are you aaaaarrrrgggghhhhing about this time Silk? Lol![emoji14]
Some of the same ole, same ole. We get permission to discuss (to me) an important topic that should (concievably) interest every Christian in the world. And what happens? There are perrenial arguments against the rapture (I know - I've made them all in my time) and when you refute them, absolutely (IMO), no one reads it - they just keep posting the same argument. 1st argument - it's not in scripture. 2nd argument - the Americans made it up in the 1800's. 3rd argument- let's confuse 2nd coming scripture with rapture scripture. 4th argument - we are the elect, not Israel, in Revelation because we have replaced Israel as God's favorite and we have to suffer for our faith. But if you get sick....you don't have enough faith. Repeat Repeat Repeat. The pretrib rapture is the only explanation where all scripture, rightly divided, agrees. And nobody listens.
Yah, I don't know why the rapture is such a controversial topic. Now, I understand why people have different opinions or beliefs about when it will happen but as to it being an actual event...I don't see how anyone can dispute that.
The dating was what screwed Darby/Scofield/whoever. The guy on the corner with the sign: The End is Near....50 years early. Too long was wolf called and now the wolf is darn near extinct. But I think the time is close. And I hope/pray it doesn't matter and we'll all be ready. Just ventillating, I guess. I keep thinking about how both the 1st and 2nd Coming were prophesized in the OT and the Jews leadership missed the Messiah.
Proverbs 22:6 (KJV)
This applies to spiritual children too. What we're taught when we're first saved, right or wrong, is near impossible to overcome.
Proverbs 1:5 (KJV)
Everyone must take the time to settle a subject in their heart. I know it was very hard for me to give up the idea about Islam vs. Rome until I did my own study. I did the same thing after that 1988 guy. My study told me that we have a day we cannot know (Rapture) and a day in which we know when Jesus returns to rule 1000 years - Feast of Trumpets. This is an interesting feast because it is tied to the siting of a new moon by two approved witnesses and then declared. So no one can know the day or the hour in which 1 Tishri starts. It is one of the few feasts that can be within a two days timeframe.
I also believe that 2 Peter 3:4 explains why so many are against end-time studies. I'm 48 and when I got saved at 11, my dad told me I surely wouldn't see my 16th birthday because the Lord was coming. People, like you said @Silk, have "Second Coming Fatigue". I wanted to have this thread so we could discuss and explain how we see the end times and how they play out.
The problem is people take things too personal about this subject. To say the rapture isn't true changes our thoughts about wrath and judgement. If people truly understood how bad the tribulation will be they'd be terrified. Knowing this, isn't this why Paul wrote about the rapture?
1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 (KJV)
I wonder what they call this event then?
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
This applies to spiritual children too. What we're taught when we're first saved, right or wrong, is near impossible to overcome.
Proverbs 1:5 (KJV)
A wise [man] will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
Everyone must take the time to settle a subject in their heart. I know it was very hard for me to give up the idea about Islam vs. Rome until I did my own study. I did the same thing after that 1988 guy. My study told me that we have a day we cannot know (Rapture) and a day in which we know when Jesus returns to rule 1000 years - Feast of Trumpets. This is an interesting feast because it is tied to the siting of a new moon by two approved witnesses and then declared. So no one can know the day or the hour in which 1 Tishri starts. It is one of the few feasts that can be within a two days timeframe.
I also believe that 2 Peter 3:4 explains why so many are against end-time studies. I'm 48 and when I got saved at 11, my dad told me I surely wouldn't see my 16th birthday because the Lord was coming. People, like you said @Silk, have "Second Coming Fatigue". I wanted to have this thread so we could discuss and explain how we see the end times and how they play out.
The problem is people take things too personal about this subject. To say the rapture isn't true changes our thoughts about wrath and judgement. If people truly understood how bad the tribulation will be they'd be terrified. Knowing this, isn't this why Paul wrote about the rapture?
1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 (KJV)
Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
I wonder what they call this event then?
It is interesting that God sees the "Harvest" as one "event". We see this "Harvest" as three separate events as told to us in scripture. Every harvest as its first event, "the first fruits" in which Jesus is referred to in the New Testament.
1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Then second there is the "main" Harvest which will take place at the "rapture" of the Church.
Thirdly is the " gleaning" which is the very last part of every harvest. This is where they go back and pickup all the fallen wheat that did not make the main harvest.
These are the "tribulation" saints that will have to die for what they believe.
Jesus being the "first fruits" of one harvest shows us that this Harvest has already began.
1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Then second there is the "main" Harvest which will take place at the "rapture" of the Church.
Thirdly is the " gleaning" which is the very last part of every harvest. This is where they go back and pickup all the fallen wheat that did not make the main harvest.
These are the "tribulation" saints that will have to die for what they believe.
Jesus being the "first fruits" of one harvest shows us that this Harvest has already began.
Thanks. I'm a simple man. I need those kinds of analogies
Agreed and some of us are just old country boys who need a visual!
I know you like word studies.
I was doing some work for a couple of friends of mine on this topic.
In the Old Test. the 2nd Coming of Christ is referred to 1845 times.
In the New Test. there is 318 referrances to the 2nd Coming of Christ.
In the New Test. 1 out of every 30 verses is about the 2nd Coing of Christ.
23 out of 27 New Test. books refer to the 2nd Coming of Christ.
For every prophecy about the birth of Christ, there are 8 that speak to His 2nd Coming.
Absolutely!!!
I'm a worrywart - I can't seem to help it. At the age of 16/17, I had a mini series dream (before there were mini series) of the tribulation. It was mini series because I kept waking up, terrified, and when I went back to sleep, it was back to the tribulation dream. It started out with horrendous weather, rioting & looting and murder in the streets and everything just kept getting worse. I watched on a white console TV set, the devil being interviewed by a news service named CNN (way before the station did it's 1st broadcast). When I got up to change the channel (no remotes then) (and we only got 3 stations then - no cable) - all the TV channels showed the same interview and all the TV channels worked. In the midst of all the chaos, the chaos became normal. I decided to take a vacation to an island. While away from home, the world darkened, literally. There were no more stars and sunlight. You could still see but it was all grey. There was no power and cars didn't work. So I crawled home, hiding from Prince Valiant type giants, every few miles "chastising" great masses of people. And I knew that whatever they had done, I had probably done too. The end was that I had been given a pass.
I tell you this because I believed I was going to have to go thru the tribulation. It's a huge comfort to me, to find the pretrib rapture in scripture. And I have only seen it less than a year. No one who had such a dream would want to live thru that. I just think the time is very short. I was never harmed in the dream, but every second of that time (in the dream) was spent in fight or flight terror and desparation. Where mostly good people died horribly because they did not have the same pass as me.
You DO have to seek the answers, not just rely on what others say. Earnestly seek or you will not see.
I tell you this because I believed I was going to have to go thru the tribulation. It's a huge comfort to me, to find the pretrib rapture in scripture. And I have only seen it less than a year. No one who had such a dream would want to live thru that. I just think the time is very short. I was never harmed in the dream, but every second of that time (in the dream) was spent in fight or flight terror and desparation. Where mostly good people died horribly because they did not have the same pass as me.
You DO have to seek the answers, not just rely on what others say. Earnestly seek or you will not see.