The Role Of The Holy Spirit As A Witness Excludes Himself From Worship

TJ. I can safely assume you are trying to put a theological strait jacket on speaking in tongues? You actually think that when a person speaks in tongues it is the Holy Spirit speaking to itself? Do you also think that the gift of healing is the Holy Spirit healing itself?
Look. When the gift of tongues is manifested, it is OUR spirit speaking to God directly. This line of communication bypasses our emotional and psychologcal hangups. And allows us to confess those things we may be unwilling or unable to bring out into the open.
You are clearly afraid of the gifts of the Spirit and therefore are attempting to build a theological box to stuff God into so YOU will feel more comfortable.
Just because YOU lack the discernment to tell a "familiar" spirit from the Holy Spirit doesn't mean everyone else does.
Sure TR. The spiritual realm can be a little scary. But I KNOW my Master's voice now....and He's no "familiar" spirit.

The discussion of the manifestation the "sign gifts" on an open forum has and will lead to nothing but confrontation and hurt feelings on both sides.

I would encourage you to move on to something more substantial and meaningful like the gospel of Jesus and how He died to set men free from their sins.
 

TalkJesus

Inactive
OK, now you finally get to your agenda as Glomung correctly observed.

You are rejecting the use of the sign gifts.

Why in the world did you just not say so to begin with my brother???

No. I am not rejecting any of God's gifts, but pointing out reproofs as to the work of iniquity from which false signs are coming from.

By His grace, I was addressing the cause of the effect: not the effect which I later expounded on from which you had replied to of that post.

No one should be calling on the Holy Spirit in worship for anything: not even gifts when the man Christ Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man. The Son is the One that intercedes for us as Him being the only Intercessor between us and God is so that the Father will be glorified in the Son for answering those prayers.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

That means the Holy Spirit cannot make these direct intercessions which many modern Bible versions are ignorant of when translating Romans 8:26-27 as the KJV explains by verse 27 that the Son that searches our hearts is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit as the it being according to the will of God being the Son is the only Mediator between us.

That is why and how God the Father knows before we say anything in prayer: Matthew 6:7-8

But getting back to the OP: Read post #19 for point to point reproofs as to the only way we can come to God in worship.
 
Talks, I suspect you don't really understand the Holy Spirit (or Ghost in my lexicon.) despite your various biblical quotes. And I have had this very same problem and my spiritual learning continues. It took me reading your posts again and again to understand? what you are warning about. You are saying that some groups of people insist that if you don't "speak in tongues" you are either, not saved or have no faith. If this is what you are warning about, I agree - hogwash. If everyone is speaking in tongues and no one understands the meaning - it is glossalalia garble.
 

TalkJesus

Inactive
Silk:

Please ask Jesus and trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you understand what I am warning about.

The Holy Spirit in us is leading us to honour the Son in worship in testifying of Him in seeking His glory and that is why the Holy Spirit would not lead us to speak of the "Himself" in seeking His own glory.

Whenever believers place that focus on the Holy Spirit in worship, that is when they are providing opportunities for seducing spirits to come in and take that spotlight for themselves with their signs and lying wonders in these so called movements of the "Spirit".... like that holy laughter movement or the slain in the "Spirit".

This is a tell-tale sign as to why those that seek this vain & profane babbling tongue directly from the Spirit Himself are not getting it from God because the Son of God is the only Mediator between God and man: 1 Timothy 2:5 That is why the tongues are coming with no interpretation, because it is not God's gift of tongues but just babbling nonsense.

Babbling tongues is just one of the false signs as there are other signs & lying wonders that come when believers put the focus on the Holy Spirit in worship to receive "again" after a sign.

No one can receive the Holy Spirit "again" so there is no other calling except to rest in Jesus as the author & finisher of our faith in running that race for us in helping us lay aside every weight & sin to be the ready bride.

God permitted that strong delusion to occur for disregarding the commandment of His invitation on how we are to approach God the Father by. We can only approach God the Father ONLY by way of the Son: John 14:6

By honouring the Son, we honour the Father as we are led by the Spirit in us to do and so when they stop honouring the Son, they are no longer honouring God the Father in worship. John 5:22-23

Anyway, the reproof here is to narrow the way we come to God the Father in worship of Him and that is by honouring & glorifying the Son so as to avoid these false spirits and their signs & lying wonders.
 
Matthew 12:31-33

And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


When Christ told his disciples to go and preach, in the name of the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Ghost, he meant all three as the same level. They are ALL part of God. You don't seem to be understanding that doctrine.
 

TalkJesus

Inactive
Matthew 12:31-33

And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


When Christ told his disciples to go and preach, in the name of the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Ghost, he meant all three as the same level. They are ALL part of God. You don't seem to be understanding that doctrine.

To be precise: that was baptizing in the name OF the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost which that name of the Triune God is Jesus Christ.

Proof of that is by how they had baptized in Jesus's name in the Book of Acts. Nowhere do we read that they were actually baptizing by saying it like that "in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost" but baptizing in the name OF which is Jesus.

I acknowledge that the Holy Spirit is God, but long standing church tradition have a way of blinding people to what the scripture says what the Holy Spirit was sent to do in leading us to do also and that is to glorify the Son.

Only God can cause the increase and I do hope He is peradventuring here.
 
TJ, you've certainly given me food for thought. I still think you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Do you believe in the gift of healing? Do you believe it is still manifested today? I think you tend to characterize speaking in tongues in error. Like I said, I have witnessed speaking in tongues, but I choose not to do this in public. But, whenever I have witnessed this, I hear so many saying "Bless you Jesus. Praise Your Holy Name." If they are saying things such as this before and after speaking in tongues, then how do you know they are speaking to the Holy Spirit as YOU say and not exhorting Christ? They sure seem to be Christ-centered before and after tongues.....why not during?
I attended Spirit-filled churches off and on when I was younger. I was never indoctrinated into Spirit-filled worship and thus I can be taught differently. You just haven't made a strong enough case that it is so wrong. Your bias is what comes through. You make assumptions as to whom someone is worshiping. Have you ever even asked who they are thinking of when speaking in tongues?
Now. I disapprove of this "Holy laughter" business(that made my kids cry once...scared them so bad in a church we visited) and I disapprove of applauding God (unbiblical). I understand your concerns and ,while they may be valid, I feel you take it too far. Abuse of the gifts is rampany. No doubt. But you tread mighty close to error yourself.
I'll ask again. Do You believe in the gift of healing and do you believe it is manifested today? And no I am no Benny Hinn fan nor any other circus master.
 
TJ, you've certainly given me food for thought. I still think you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Do you believe in the gift of healing? Do you believe it is still manifested today? I think you tend to characterize speaking in tongues in error. Like I said, I have witnessed speaking in tongues, but I choose not to do this in public. But, whenever I have witnessed this, I hear so many saying "Bless you Jesus. Praise Your Holy Name." If they are saying things such as this before and after speaking in tongues, then how do you know they are speaking to the Holy Spirit as YOU say and not exhorting Christ? They sure seem to be Christ-centered before and after tongues.....why not during?
I attended Spirit-filled churches off and on when I was younger. I was never indoctrinated into Spirit-filled worship and thus I can be taught differently. You just haven't made a strong enough case that it is so wrong. Your bias is what comes through. You make assumptions as to whom someone is worshiping. Have you ever even asked who they are thinking of when speaking in tongues?
Now. I disapprove of this "Holy laughter" business(that made my kids cry once...scared them so bad in a church we visited) and I disapprove of applauding God (unbiblical). I understand your concerns and ,while they may be valid, I feel you take it too far. Abuse of the gifts is rampany. No doubt. But you tread mighty close to error yourself.
I'll ask again. Do You believe in the gift of healing and do you believe it is manifested today? And no I am no Benny Hinn fan nor any other circus master.

I hear you dan, but let me ask you something.

Once out of the bottle...........how/who is to controle these actions???

I also believe in the healing power of God. But once it is loosened, we come up with the likes of the Benny Hinns.

Another question.......If there are men with the gift of healing, why do you suppose that they only show up where there are huge crowds of people. Why are they not going from one hospital room to another healing everyone there. Wouldn't YOU be doing that if YOU had that gift???

Of course you would and so would I. But...........here is the problem that comes in. SIN! PRIDE!
Man sees a way to make some MONEY and be well known and out the door goes Biblical teaching and common sense.
 
Silk:

Please ask Jesus and trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you understand what I am warning about.

The Holy Spirit in us is leading us to honour the Son in worship in testifying of Him in seeking His glory and that is why the Holy Spirit would not lead us to speak of the "Himself" in seeking His own glory.

Whenever believers place that focus on the Holy Spirit in worship, that is when they are providing opportunities for seducing spirits to come in and take that spotlight for themselves with their signs and lying wonders in these so called movements of the "Spirit".... like that holy laughter movement or the slain in the "Spirit".

This is a tell-tale sign as to why those that seek this vain & profane babbling tongue directly from the Spirit Himself are not getting it from God because the Son of God is the only Mediator between God and man: 1 Timothy 2:5 That is why the tongues are coming with no interpretation, because it is not God's gift of tongues but just babbling nonsense.

Babbling tongues is just one of the false signs as there are other signs & lying wonders that come when believers put the focus on the Holy Spirit in worship to receive "again" after a sign.

No one can receive the Holy Spirit "again" so there is no other calling except to rest in Jesus as the author & finisher of our faith in running that race for us in helping us lay aside every weight & sin to be the ready bride.

God permitted that strong delusion to occur for disregarding the commandment of His invitation on how we are to approach God the Father by. We can only approach God the Father ONLY by way of the Son: John 14:6

By honouring the Son, we honour the Father as we are led by the Spirit in us to do and so when they stop honouring the Son, they are no longer honouring God the Father in worship. John 5:22-23

Anyway, the reproof here is to narrow the way we come to God the Father in worship of Him and that is by honouring & glorifying the Son so as to avoid these false spirits and their signs & lying wonders.

I have no desire to argue back and forth over whether speaking in tongues in valid or not. What I can do however is to tell you what I have observed over the years when attending churches where speaking in tongues was practiced.

The "speaking in tongues" that is being done today in churches is NOT what was done in the early church and it is NOT the reason why the Lord Jesus gave the "sign" gifts to the apostles for.

The apostles were told to go into all the world and spread the gospel and as they went they would not be hurt by serpants, or harmed by spoiled water and where ever they went they would be able to be UNDERSTOOD as they preached the gospel.

Today, speaking in tongues that I have witnessed over the years is all about the the person bringing attention to him/her self and NOT the preaching of the gospel at all. IF anyone speaks in a tongue that is not translated into a legtimate dialect, then that person should without any question be able to kiss rattlesnakes, drink water from Mexico, and raise the dead. That is because the SIGN gifts given to the apostles was a "package" deal. They did not have just one or two but they had all of them.

Again,from what I have observed, the speaking in tongues becomes a contest to see who can act more spiritual in front of the congregation as if that makes one spiritual. That my friends smacks of PRIDE and that according to Proverbs is the 1st thing that God hates.
 
Major, I am not arguing/debating about speaking in tongues or whether it is/or is not being seen correctly. I do not know whether the gifts are a "package deal" or not. But it seems,to me, Talks is saying that the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus. I'm a triune kinda gal and this is blasphemy. As for the gifts of spirit, I believe, they can be found separately in different persons. Perhaps, as they grow spiritually, they will get the rest
 

TalkJesus

Inactive
TJ, you've certainly given me food for thought. I still think you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

More like recognizing by the scripture what the Holy Spirit will be leading us to do and not do.

Do you believe in the gift of healing? Do you believe it is still manifested today? I think you tend to characterize speaking in tongues in error. Like I said, I have witnessed speaking in tongues, but I choose not to do this in public.

And yet Paul said what tongues were for and that it was of other men's lips to speak unto the people. That is all Paul said that God would use tongues for plainly. 1 Corinthians 14:20-21. Verse 20 is like saying, if you only understand one thing about tongues, know this: and he explains what tongues are in verse 21 so that believer that misunderstood what Paul was saying about tongues in that entire chapter would read verse 21 as setting precedent for reading and understanding his words about the actual God's gift of tongues.

But, whenever I have witnessed this, I hear so many saying "Bless you Jesus. Praise Your Holy Name." If they are saying things such as this before and after speaking in tongues, then how do you know they are speaking to the Holy Spirit as YOU say and not exhorting Christ? They sure seem to be Christ-centered before and after tongues.....why not during?

Speaking to the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is not the Mediator between God and men to be the One speaking to. The Son of God is called the Bridegroom in how we are to relate to God personally by. By getting to know the Son, we get to know the Father. There is no other way so that believers can avoid false spirits that try to come inbetween us and the Son in relating To God by.
I attended Spirit-filled churches off and on when I was younger. I was never indoctrinated into Spirit-filled worship and thus I can be taught differently. You just haven't made a strong enough case that it is so wrong. Your bias is what comes through. You make assumptions as to whom someone is worshiping. Have you ever even asked who they are thinking of when speaking in tongues?

Some have testified that they are thinking the Spirit can do a better job praying about their needs than they can.

If this is the purpose of prayer John 14:13-14 so that the Father may be glorified in the Son when the Son makes these intercessions and answers these prayers, then the Holy Spirit will not be praying of His own volition when He can only speak what He hears in the first place: John 16:13 This is why the KJV has it right on Romans 8:26-27 because verse 27 is actually testifying of the Son ( Romans 8:34 ) of knowing the mind of the Spirit while the Son is also searching our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16) and thus the Spirit is the means by which this intercession is made and yet not directly by the Spirit because it is by the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit. Verse 27 explains how this intercession can be known when with groanings which cannot be uttered hence meaning no sound at all and that is because of verse 27 of the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit as this is accoding to the will of God of the man, Christ Jesus, being the only Mediator between God and man.

So it is not the Spirit's job at all to be making direct intercessions like that. The Son searching our hearts & knowing the mind of the Spirit explains how the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer: Matthew 6:7-8

Therefore if the Father knows before we ask, what need does the Spirit has to say anything by route of tongues as a prayer language? Nothing at all.

Is it not a devil's work to cut inbetween us and the Bridegroom by stealing that personal time with the Lord away from us with babbling nonsense, not knowing what we had prayed for and thus robbing Him of any opportunity of answering our prayers and of receiving our thanks for answering our known prayers?

Better to know what you had prayed for so that when God does answer our prayers, we can give Him thanks.

Now. I disapprove of this "Holy laughter" business(that made my kids cry once...scared them so bad in a church we visited) and I disapprove of applauding God (unbiblical). I understand your concerns and ,while they may be valid, I feel you take it too far. Abuse of the gifts is rampany. No doubt. But you tread mighty close to error yourself.
I'll ask again. Do You believe in the gift of healing and do you believe it is manifested today? And no I am no Benny Hinn fan nor any other circus master.

It is good that the Good Shepherd has led you to discern the holy laughter as not of Him.

Discern more with His help by this:

When people call on the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, He has always answered and always will answer.

If the holy laughter movement is not of God but of the devil, then how is it that when they had called on the Holy Spirit in worship, it was the devil that had answered with signs & lying wonders?

Answer: The Son, Jesus, is the only way to God the Father. John 14:6-7 Climb up any other way is a work of iniquity that denies Him as being that only Mediator between God and man: John 10:1 John 10:7-8

If you are not sure about this reproof, consider this as well:

The holy laughter movement was ecumenical as gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles by this broadening of the way in coming to God and so the only way to make that tree good is to narrow the way back to God by relating to Him personally only through the Bridegroom ( Luke 13:24-30 ) so as to avoid these false spirits to eat & drink in their presence with their signs & lying wonders. Otherwise, by ignoring His word in how to approach Him, John 14:6-7, they risk building on that foundation as sand and many houses have been falling in this "holy laughter" movement for broadening the way in suffering a thief to break through: Matthew 7:13-27

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Calling on the Holy Spirit is a tree that is bearing evil fruits and so by His words, you should know that the route you had taken and gotten what you thought was a good fruit like tongues with no interpretation, He just told you that it is not good because the tree in the way it was sought of the fruit to be received, was not good at all.

The Holy Spirit is God, but it is a work of iniquity by addressing the Spirit and thus dishonouring the Son as being the only way we can come to God the Father by in prayer, fellowship, and worship. Believers need to go before that throne of grace for help in repenting by shunning vain & profane babblings: 2 Timothy 2:16 and relate to God through the Bridegroom as the chaste bride of Christ should before the Bridegroom comes.
 
OK... one more time, you are trying to teach a tenet that is NOT true. The Holy Spirit was left behind as "comforter" after Christ was crucified, resurrected and ascended to the Father. So therefore, the Holy Spirit is an interface from us to God. Unless I missed Christ Second Coming. If you are saying that demonic spirits are entering churches of believers, perhaps you should know that the demonic are supposedly tortured by holy artifacts and are allergic to Christ's name.
 
Major, I am not arguing/debating about speaking in tongues or whether it is/or is not being seen correctly. I do not know whether the gifts are a "package deal" or not. But it seems,to me, Talks is saying that the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus. I'm a triune kinda gal and this is blasphemy. As for the gifts of spirit, I believe, they can be found separately in different persons. Perhaps, as they grow spiritually, they will get the rest

Silk.......the problem IMO is and has been a totally misunderstood phenomanon.

The "Sign Gifts" were given directly from Jesus to the Apostles in a face to face event in Mark 16.

In Mark 16:14 we find.....
"Afterward He (Christ) appeared unto the ELEVEN'.

Verse 17....
"And these signs will follow THEM (The Eleven) that believe:
In my name they shall cast out devils: THEY shall speak with new tongues; THEY shall take up serpants; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not harm THEM and THEY shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover".

Now that IS the package of SIGN GIFTS given unto the Eleven to help them in the ministry of spreading the gospel.

Lets prove that Biblically, not denominationally.

Hebrews 2:1-4
"Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which WE have heard, lest at any time WE should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall WE escape, if WE neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was CONFIRMED UNTO US BY THEM THAT HEARD HIM, God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

There are the ELEVEN again. The ELEVEN are the ones who were commissioned and given the "Sign Gifts".

Now that is totally differant than the Gifts of the Holy Spirit which are given to all believers at conversion.

Peace, love, love, patcient, knowledge, compassion, understanding, mercy are just a few.
 
I think I saw in Matthew or Mark, that I was just rereading, that the Disciples also passed on these "paranormal" gifts to their followers. Particularly to cast out devils. Many "gifts" have not been described in scripture. Adam could converse with animals, for instance. The Merovingian (sp?) of France were said to have this gift - some of them. When speaking in tongues is mentioned in scripture (yes yes BY the disciples)
it is used that the meaning can be understood. And tho I have no actual proof, I believe that it continues to this day, altho I feel the meaning has to be understood by someone speaking or hearing it. I think the "gifts" given to people are for those God calls that need it. My PROBLEM here is that the Holy Spirit is being sub serviated to other parts of God and it's dead wrong
 
I hear you dan, but let me ask you something.

Once out of the bottle...........how/who is to controle these actions???

I also believe in the healing power of God. But once it is loosened, we come up with the likes of the Benny Hinns.

Another question.......If there are men with the gift of healing, why do you suppose that they only show up where there are huge crowds of people. Why are they not going from one hospital room to another healing everyone there. Wouldn't YOU be doing that if YOU had that gift???

Of course you would and so would I. But...........here is the problem that comes in. SIN! PRIDE!
Man sees a way to make some MONEY and be well known and out the door goes Biblical teaching and common sense.

Major, I'm more in agreement with you than you might think. Who should control any Spiritual manifestation? The church elders of course.
How? Man, I'll tell ya, thats one good question! The elders simply must walk in love and , especially, discernment.
I have witnessed much abuse by those claiming gifts. And I know only a small part of it is genuine.
How to control a healing service? Well the proof is in the pudding. If you choose, through love and obedience, to have a portion of your service dedicated to allowing the Lord to use you as a conduit for the healing of others then you might just witness something miraculous. But if you choose to throw the baby out with the bathwater then you never will.
I fully understand the hesitation. The Lord TOLD us to lay hands and pray. What is the harm? One out of a hundred or even one in a million gets actually healed? Whats wrong with that? It's not us doing the healing. We are just obeying and acting as a conduit to pass this gift to the sick, maimed, whatever.
I saw only 2 actual healings in my entire life. One was my stomach. The other was a friend's eye. Both were administered by Joe Donato. He said he never knew when, where or who the Lord was going to heal until just before the Lord would show him. He said some would come before him with seemingly boundless faith yet recieve no healing and others who may have no faith recieve a full healing.
In the case of a friend. His eye condition was seen by Joe even though the condition was in remission. He laid hands and my friend never again had his eye flare up. But he never accepted the Lord either.
I once asked Joe what he thought of Benny Hinn...his reply..."strutting peacock". I laughed so hard.
Joe lived in a run down house given to him by an old lady. He drove an old used car. Hardly a circus master. He had humility. He even told me of his moral lapses after he began his ministry. A truly open and honest man with no thought of maintaining an image or reputation.
It's out there Major. Just so very hard to find. So many snakes makes it easy to throw the baby out with the bath water. I just think its in error.
 
Major, I'm more in agreement with you than you might think. Who should control any Spiritual manifestation? The church elders of course.
How? Man, I'll tell ya, thats one good question! The elders simply must walk in love and , especially, discernment.
I have witnessed much abuse by those claiming gifts. And I know only a small part of it is genuine.
How to control a healing service? Well the proof is in the pudding. If you choose, through love and obedience, to have a portion of your service dedicated to allowing the Lord to use you as a conduit for the healing of others then you might just witness something miraculous. But if you choose to throw the baby out with the bathwater then you never will.
I fully understand the hesitation. The Lord TOLD us to lay hands and pray. What is the harm? One out of a hundred or even one in a million gets actually healed? Whats wrong with that? It's not us doing the healing. We are just obeying and acting as a conduit to pass this gift to the sick, maimed, whatever.
I saw only 2 actual healings in my entire life. One was my stomach. The other was a friend's eye. Both were administered by Joe Donato. He said he never knew when, where or who the Lord was going to heal until just before the Lord would show him. He said some would come before him with seemingly boundless faith yet recieve no healing and others who may have no faith recieve a full healing.
In the case of a friend. His eye condition was seen by Joe even though the condition was in remission. He laid hands and my friend never again had his eye flare up. But he never accepted the Lord either.
I once asked Joe what he thought of Benny Hinn...his reply..."strutting peacock". I laughed so hard.
Joe lived in a run down house given to him by an old lady. He drove an old used car. Hardly a circus master. He had humility. He even told me of his moral lapses after he began his ministry. A truly open and honest man with no thought of maintaining an image or reputation.
It's out there Major. Just so very hard to find. So many snakes makes it easy to throw the baby out with the bath water. I just think its in error.

Dan.......A survey company back about 5 years ago did an investigative work on all the healed people at one of Benny Hinns services. There was I believe about 72 people but that is not the point. They waited 6 months then contacted all these people.

Not one single person had a lasting healing. Not ONE.

How do we as Christians explain that to a skeptical world looking for just a fraud as that to cast doubt on our faith???

Then when you say.........."its out there but hard to find".

WHY is that the case Dan??/ Don't you see the inherant problem that is created when the need for pain and healing is coupled with religion and money.

Dan.....it is a prescription for disaster my brother. Listen...........I have been at this for a long time. I promise you that if there was anyone who wanted there to be healing available through man at a Christian gathering it would be me.
 
It is my experience, too, Dan, to have most people claiming gifts to not have them. That includes psychics, card readers, to those who say they can heal and speak in tongues. But I have witnessed some miracles, altho they are few and far between. I don't mean to mix the paranormal/occult with the holy roller circus - but I think they have something in common, that brings them to these claims. Pride, desire of attention, greed. The first time anyone feels they have to "lie" to prove they are a "better Christian" is the first brick in the road to perdition.
 
Top