Yes! Looking forward to some peanut butter and Rocky Road ice cream tonight, but first I have to make it through the dinner soup. (keeping my eye on the prize! lol)
The Soul
- Thread starter Via dolarossa
- Start date
We are made to worship and man will worship something. This is what I was referring to by 'main stream of things'. But scripture tell us that He chose us and not us Him. Isn't this then being taken 'out of?
This is an interesting subject that I did a study on a while back. Aside from the subject of what is the soul, it also has interesting tentacles that reach in a few different directions…which I will post separately.
Lanolin correctly stated→ “that the soul is made up of the mind, the will (or desire) and emotions.
I think the soul is the unique part of us that makes us human. We have a body, a soul and a spirit.
People that are unbelievers I guess just have a body and a soul.”
___________________________________________
The Hebrew word for soul is the word nephesh. It is used 738x in the OT and has been translated “soul” 475x, and various other words 263x, including: life, person, mind, heart, creature, body, himself, ..etc. The Hebrew word chay, which means “alive, living soul, or moving life”…. will always be employed in the word of God with nephesh ….as living life, in contrast to a dead or perished soul.
While it is true, that the first time nephesh is translated “soul” is in Gen 2:7….. it is not the first time it is used.....
In Genesis chapter one, it is used four times in verses 20, 21,24 &30
It is translated hath in verse 20, creature in verses 21 and 24, and life in verse 30.
For the purposes of this post I want to key off of Gen 1:21…. as it opens up some interesting avenues of learning.
Genesis 1:21
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living [chay] creature [nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
The first thing to note is that when God created soul life, he created it in great whales and every living creature that moveth. That tells us that soul life is not only in animals, but that it was created in animals….
The word create is first used in Genesis 1:1 when God, in the beginning, created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1 God created the heaven and the earth in the very beginning. (Peshitta Text)
Create = “bara” in Hebrew - The word create is to bring something into existence that did not exist before, or to make something out of nothing.
Only God can create! …. man can fabricate, build, construct, design, make, assemble, etc.… but man cannot create.
Once God creates something He does not need to create it again, because it now exists…. He can just speak it into being,….as He did with the reestablishment of the earth from verse 3 through 14 ..He just spoke it into existence, because it had already been created, when He created the heavens and the earth in verse 1……It is not until Genesis 1:21 that God again creates in great whales and every living creature that moveth…He created soul life.
((WHERE is the soul?))
Lanolin correctly identified some of the attributes of the soul, to which I will add…. it is also our breath life …. but the question becomes ….where is the soul?
In Leviticus God tells us…..
Leviticus 17:11 For the life [nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [nephesh]
The word life in this verse is the same word for soul (nephesh)
Going back to basic Biology: Oxygen is delivered throughout the body by means of the red blood cells ….actually it is the hemoglobin molecules from the red cells that deliver the oxygen to the individual cells in the body tissue. The bloodstream also picks up CO2 from the body and returns it to the lunges to be exhaled…
What happens when we die? The heart, which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that particular person…. but is carried on through prodigy. But if there is no offspring, the soul is gone when that person dies; there is nothing immortal about the soul.
In Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (chay nephesh)
The words breathed into his nostrils is the figure of speech anthropopatheia or condescension. This figure is used of the ascription of human passions, actions, or attributes to God.
(Of the 119 known figures of speech God uses 112 in the Bible.)
The same soul life that God created in Genesis 1:21, is the same soul life that God breathed into Adam, which made Adam a living soul….It is also the same soul life that continues in mankind today.
Lanolin correctly stated→ “that the soul is made up of the mind, the will (or desire) and emotions.
I think the soul is the unique part of us that makes us human. We have a body, a soul and a spirit.
People that are unbelievers I guess just have a body and a soul.”
___________________________________________
The Hebrew word for soul is the word nephesh. It is used 738x in the OT and has been translated “soul” 475x, and various other words 263x, including: life, person, mind, heart, creature, body, himself, ..etc. The Hebrew word chay, which means “alive, living soul, or moving life”…. will always be employed in the word of God with nephesh ….as living life, in contrast to a dead or perished soul.
While it is true, that the first time nephesh is translated “soul” is in Gen 2:7….. it is not the first time it is used.....
In Genesis chapter one, it is used four times in verses 20, 21,24 &30
It is translated hath in verse 20, creature in verses 21 and 24, and life in verse 30.
For the purposes of this post I want to key off of Gen 1:21…. as it opens up some interesting avenues of learning.
Genesis 1:21
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living [chay] creature [nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
The first thing to note is that when God created soul life, he created it in great whales and every living creature that moveth. That tells us that soul life is not only in animals, but that it was created in animals….
The word create is first used in Genesis 1:1 when God, in the beginning, created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1 God created the heaven and the earth in the very beginning. (Peshitta Text)
Create = “bara” in Hebrew - The word create is to bring something into existence that did not exist before, or to make something out of nothing.
Only God can create! …. man can fabricate, build, construct, design, make, assemble, etc.… but man cannot create.
Once God creates something He does not need to create it again, because it now exists…. He can just speak it into being,….as He did with the reestablishment of the earth from verse 3 through 14 ..He just spoke it into existence, because it had already been created, when He created the heavens and the earth in verse 1……It is not until Genesis 1:21 that God again creates in great whales and every living creature that moveth…He created soul life.
((WHERE is the soul?))
Lanolin correctly identified some of the attributes of the soul, to which I will add…. it is also our breath life …. but the question becomes ….where is the soul?
In Leviticus God tells us…..
Leviticus 17:11 For the life [nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [nephesh]
The word life in this verse is the same word for soul (nephesh)
Going back to basic Biology: Oxygen is delivered throughout the body by means of the red blood cells ….actually it is the hemoglobin molecules from the red cells that deliver the oxygen to the individual cells in the body tissue. The bloodstream also picks up CO2 from the body and returns it to the lunges to be exhaled…
What happens when we die? The heart, which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that particular person…. but is carried on through prodigy. But if there is no offspring, the soul is gone when that person dies; there is nothing immortal about the soul.
In Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (chay nephesh)
The words breathed into his nostrils is the figure of speech anthropopatheia or condescension. This figure is used of the ascription of human passions, actions, or attributes to God.
(Of the 119 known figures of speech God uses 112 in the Bible.)
The same soul life that God created in Genesis 1:21, is the same soul life that God breathed into Adam, which made Adam a living soul….It is also the same soul life that continues in mankind today.
All humans have a soul, but only the redeemed have their spirits been born again now unto God!
That sounds like all humans also have a spirit, but some spirits are just not born again until faith?
That would be the aspect of us that died in Adam in the Fall!
What I was trying to point out was since you said 'all humans have a soul, but only the redeemed have their spirits born again', wouldn't that imply the unredeemed previously had a spirit (it just needed to be born again)?
Sorry for the confused wording.
That is a deep question and I gouda do some more research before I can answer that.
I will tell you one thing. It is possible to feel a soul leaving a body. I've been in two ER's the moment someone physically died and I could feel it.
Rtm
I agree that all humans have a body, a soul, an a spirit (3 in 1). The body is the shell, the soul is who we think we are, and the spirit is who we can become; our direct link to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (3 in 1).
Rtm
Rtm
Or that we all still have truine nature, but only the saved have the spirit alive again?
Via dolarossa Ok, a little disappointed that you did not get the "I gouda do" response to your cheese comment, but I will get over it
Well..........No.
I had a shingel and a Tetnise vaccine Tuesday and they have caused he a lot of problems today.
Fever, headache, and overall blasss!
Yes, I'm blessed reading everyone's posts and am still trying to figure out the big cheese part, which to me is very deep.
LL!
Or....really "Sharp"!
((Body & Spirit))
From scripture we know man is a three part person. Since we have identified The Soul, lets also look at what the body and spirit are.
There are two scriptures that are very interesting…that correspond along these lines.
In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Is 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
We know God does not use words haphazardly and He has a purpose for everything He say. Since we already know what The Soul is. Lets look at the body and the spirit.
The Body
Genesis 2:7a “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground…)
The Hebrew word for formed is the word yatsar. = to be fashioned out of something that was already in existence.
Verse 7a …. States, that God formed man of the dust of the ground. The word man, is the word āḏām, meaning red earth. Man is composed (formed) of the same elements of the dust of the earth, and will return to dust…. as Genesis 3:19 states.
3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
((Spirit))
The word create is first used in Genesis 1:1 when God, in the beginning, created the heavens and the earth. (I like how the Peshitta Text reads 1:1 …putting God first)
Genesis 1:1 God created the heaven and the earth in the very beginning.
Create = bara in Hebrew - The word create is to bring something into existence that did not exist before, to make something out of nothing.
The next use of the word create (bara) Is in Genesis 1:21 when God creates soul life ← discussed in previous post The Soul #23. And the third time is in Genesis 1:27…
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
What is the image of God?
The Bible tells us that God is spirit …spirit has no form, no flesh or bones.
John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God created within man His spirit (ruach). This made it possible for man to communicate with God by way of what God is ……….spirit.
((An interesting study would be the loss of spirit when man (Adam) sinned (thou shalt surely die). How from that time until after Pentecost God had to communicate through various ways by putting the spirit upon believers (conditionally) communicate through animals, some form of concretion, and written scrolls. And the accomplishments of Jesus Christ, which made it available for us to have the spirit of God (incorruptible seed) within unconditionally))
God formed man of the dust of the ground body.
He breathed in man the breath of life and man was made a living soul
He created in man spirit so man could communicate with God.
Formed, made, and created = Body, soul, and sprit.
In Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The words breathed into his nostrils is the figure of speech anthropopatheia or condescension. This figure is used of the ascription of human passions, actions, or attributes to God. (E.W.Bullinger)
From scripture we know man is a three part person. Since we have identified The Soul, lets also look at what the body and spirit are.
There are two scriptures that are very interesting…that correspond along these lines.
In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Is 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
We know God does not use words haphazardly and He has a purpose for everything He say. Since we already know what The Soul is. Lets look at the body and the spirit.
The Body
Genesis 2:7a “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground…)
The Hebrew word for formed is the word yatsar. = to be fashioned out of something that was already in existence.
Verse 7a …. States, that God formed man of the dust of the ground. The word man, is the word āḏām, meaning red earth. Man is composed (formed) of the same elements of the dust of the earth, and will return to dust…. as Genesis 3:19 states.
3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
((Spirit))
The word create is first used in Genesis 1:1 when God, in the beginning, created the heavens and the earth. (I like how the Peshitta Text reads 1:1 …putting God first)
Genesis 1:1 God created the heaven and the earth in the very beginning.
Create = bara in Hebrew - The word create is to bring something into existence that did not exist before, to make something out of nothing.
The next use of the word create (bara) Is in Genesis 1:21 when God creates soul life ← discussed in previous post The Soul #23. And the third time is in Genesis 1:27…
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
What is the image of God?
The Bible tells us that God is spirit …spirit has no form, no flesh or bones.
John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God created within man His spirit (ruach). This made it possible for man to communicate with God by way of what God is ……….spirit.
((An interesting study would be the loss of spirit when man (Adam) sinned (thou shalt surely die). How from that time until after Pentecost God had to communicate through various ways by putting the spirit upon believers (conditionally) communicate through animals, some form of concretion, and written scrolls. And the accomplishments of Jesus Christ, which made it available for us to have the spirit of God (incorruptible seed) within unconditionally))
God formed man of the dust of the ground body.
He breathed in man the breath of life and man was made a living soul
He created in man spirit so man could communicate with God.
Formed, made, and created = Body, soul, and sprit.
In Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The words breathed into his nostrils is the figure of speech anthropopatheia or condescension. This figure is used of the ascription of human passions, actions, or attributes to God. (E.W.Bullinger)
((something extra in Genesis …having to do with soul …in a roundabout way))
::::::::::::::::::::::: may include cheese :::::::::::::::::::::::::::
An interesting tie-in with this subject of Soul takes us back to Genesis….1:1 & 1:2
As I mentioned in my post on The Soul #23 once God creates something He does not need to be created again.
When God created the Heavens and the Earth He created it not in vain.
Genesis 1:1
God created (bara) the heaven and the earth in the very beginning
It does not state when the heavens and earth were created or if they were created at the same time. It could have been the same time, but it could have been a few years, a hundreds years, even thousands of years apart. It doesn’t say …..so we don’t know. But what it does say is that both the heavens and the earth were created. Additionally the Hebrew particle ‘eth before both “the heavens” and “the earth” emphasize the article “the”, which distinguishes them both from the proceeding event of verse 2.
Genesis 1:2
And the earth was (hayah) without form, and void (tohu va bohu); and darkness “was” upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The second was in this verse was added by translators as there is no corresponding Hebrew word in that place.
“And the Earth became without form and void…” Is how the text should read. God had created both the heavens and the earth…. but it was the earth that became an empty wasteland.
Isaiah states that God created the earth not in vain tohuw (wasteland), but formed it to be inhabited.
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
SIDE NOTE: There has been some that claim that Hebrew grammar does not allow for a “gap” between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. The connective word that begins verse two (waw) is a disjunctive term that introduces a circumstantial clause; it is best rendered as: “Now the earth….
But…
Failure to recognize the figure of speech polysyndeton (many ands) that God uses in the consecutive 34 verses from 1:1 to 2:3; using “and” 102 times to accentuate the acts of God… must be taken into consideration when dealing with syntax….. A figure of speech is a legitimate departure from the laws of language in order to emphasize and draw attention to what is being said.
Moving on:
Although I can speculate and theorize (based on scripture) as to what took place and how much time is between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2 the Word is not absolutely clear ….so I do not know.
What I do know is, from Genesis 1:2 to 1:21, God did not create anything again until the 5th day when He created soul life in “great whales and every living creature (chay nephesh) that moveth”…
We know from Lev 17:11 that the life (soul life) of the flesh is in the blood as I stated in the previous post The Soul. So proceeding on the premise of a time span between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and on the premise of there being Paleolithic man and creatures that fall into that time span, we can unequivocally draw the conclusion that whatever it was that mobilized or gave life to the man and creatures (and probably my 11th grade calculus teacher) was not the same as what gives us life….. If it were.....the creation of what we know as soul life in Genesis 1:21 would not have been necessary; God would have just spoken it into existence as he did with light, earth, water, grass, fruit trees, etc…. all those existed in the first heavens and earth and did not need to be created again.
What was it that gave Paleolithic man and creatures life ….I do not know….it could have been Jell-O …or was it cheese?.......... Probably neither of those ….but ,it was not the soul life (blood) that gives us life.
::::::::::::::::::::::: may include cheese :::::::::::::::::::::::::::
An interesting tie-in with this subject of Soul takes us back to Genesis….1:1 & 1:2
As I mentioned in my post on The Soul #23 once God creates something He does not need to be created again.
When God created the Heavens and the Earth He created it not in vain.
Genesis 1:1
God created (bara) the heaven and the earth in the very beginning
It does not state when the heavens and earth were created or if they were created at the same time. It could have been the same time, but it could have been a few years, a hundreds years, even thousands of years apart. It doesn’t say …..so we don’t know. But what it does say is that both the heavens and the earth were created. Additionally the Hebrew particle ‘eth before both “the heavens” and “the earth” emphasize the article “the”, which distinguishes them both from the proceeding event of verse 2.
Genesis 1:2
And the earth was (hayah) without form, and void (tohu va bohu); and darkness “was” upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
While hayah has been translated was in most English versions including the LXX. In the original Hebrew ….there was no verb “to be” which is translated →was… However there is a verb “to become”, which is how this should be translated…. and is translated “become” in Deu 27:9 and 2Sa 7:24The second was in this verse was added by translators as there is no corresponding Hebrew word in that place.
“And the Earth became without form and void…” Is how the text should read. God had created both the heavens and the earth…. but it was the earth that became an empty wasteland.
Isaiah states that God created the earth not in vain tohuw (wasteland), but formed it to be inhabited.
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
SIDE NOTE: There has been some that claim that Hebrew grammar does not allow for a “gap” between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. The connective word that begins verse two (waw) is a disjunctive term that introduces a circumstantial clause; it is best rendered as: “Now the earth….
But…
Failure to recognize the figure of speech polysyndeton (many ands) that God uses in the consecutive 34 verses from 1:1 to 2:3; using “and” 102 times to accentuate the acts of God… must be taken into consideration when dealing with syntax….. A figure of speech is a legitimate departure from the laws of language in order to emphasize and draw attention to what is being said.
Moving on:
Although I can speculate and theorize (based on scripture) as to what took place and how much time is between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2 the Word is not absolutely clear ….so I do not know.
What I do know is, from Genesis 1:2 to 1:21, God did not create anything again until the 5th day when He created soul life in “great whales and every living creature (chay nephesh) that moveth”…
We know from Lev 17:11 that the life (soul life) of the flesh is in the blood as I stated in the previous post The Soul. So proceeding on the premise of a time span between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and on the premise of there being Paleolithic man and creatures that fall into that time span, we can unequivocally draw the conclusion that whatever it was that mobilized or gave life to the man and creatures (and probably my 11th grade calculus teacher) was not the same as what gives us life….. If it were.....the creation of what we know as soul life in Genesis 1:21 would not have been necessary; God would have just spoken it into existence as he did with light, earth, water, grass, fruit trees, etc…. all those existed in the first heavens and earth and did not need to be created again.
What was it that gave Paleolithic man and creatures life ….I do not know….it could have been Jell-O …or was it cheese?.......... Probably neither of those ….but ,it was not the soul life (blood) that gives us life.
I thought you made your case using Scripture quite well regarding soul and spirit. But then you came out with this half serious remark above. Do you actually believe there was Paleolithic man, which the Encyclopedia Britannica has living over 2 million years ago, or do you believe the Biblical record of man?
I use the term (Paleolithic man) quite loosely...I do not adhere to evolution or the common scientific explanation of the age of the earth, which the educated world has been held hostage to for so very long.
There are scientists today who promote a much younger earth…. stating the flawed, inconsistent, and forged results of radiometric and carbon dating. But their voices have been suppressed in effort to support a godless evolution and the big bang theory.
I don’t know the time between the first earth and the current one we live in and honestly, to me…. it doesn’t matter. God states "in the beginning" and that's good enough for me.
so sorry, I didn't see it. I hope you feel feta soonVia dolarossa Ok, a little disappointed that you did not get the "I gouda do" response to your cheese comment, but I will get over it
Much better now! Thanks for the prayers!