The Testing Of Spirits
- Thread starter Silk
- Start date
Lean but yes I am always learning.Well at least you admit you are LEARNING.
Lean but yes I am always learning.
Are you lean, too?
Thanks for sharing the video. I watched all four parts. I had a few questions about it. I may still be on the 'milk of the word' so some of these things might have simple explanations that I just need some 'pointing' to grasp. Thanks
In the video, near the end, he says (talking of 1 cor 14:1) "Even though the word gift appeared twice in that verse, in the Greek text from which this was translated, the word gift never appeared. Speaking in tongues is not a gift; it is a manifestation of the Spirit. Why is that important? Because if you have the Spirit of God -- if you're a Christian, you can manifest it, you can bring it out, you can speak in tongues."
Does that contradict 1 co 12:8-12 (which seems to say 'for to one is given' and 'to another is given')?
Does that mean any Christian who has the Spirit of God also manifest or bring out prophecy? It seems like the same logic would apply?
When at that teacher's site, I noticed a link to another site biblicalunitarian dot com. That teacher is in a number of videos on the other site as well. Is what they say true, it seems contradictory to John 1 to me? They say (paraphrasing a bit) "we propose that the idea of incarnation give way to a simpler and more biblical explanation of Jesus’ origin—that God was his source by the same process of special creation that brought the heavens and the earth into being." "... nothing is lost if a shift is made in Christian thinking from Jesus being the “incarnation” of God to Jesus being the creation of God, his Father. How sad that the vast majority of Christians believe the fable that God became a baby. The truth is nearly just the opposite—a baby became the Lord!" They don't seem to come right out and say it but from reading things on that site it almost sounds like they are denying the deity of Jesus?
In the video, near the end, he says (talking of 1 cor 14:1) "Even though the word gift appeared twice in that verse, in the Greek text from which this was translated, the word gift never appeared. Speaking in tongues is not a gift; it is a manifestation of the Spirit. Why is that important? Because if you have the Spirit of God -- if you're a Christian, you can manifest it, you can bring it out, you can speak in tongues."
Does that contradict 1 co 12:8-12 (which seems to say 'for to one is given' and 'to another is given')?
Does that mean any Christian who has the Spirit of God also manifest or bring out prophecy? It seems like the same logic would apply?
When at that teacher's site, I noticed a link to another site biblicalunitarian dot com. That teacher is in a number of videos on the other site as well. Is what they say true, it seems contradictory to John 1 to me? They say (paraphrasing a bit) "we propose that the idea of incarnation give way to a simpler and more biblical explanation of Jesus’ origin—that God was his source by the same process of special creation that brought the heavens and the earth into being." "... nothing is lost if a shift is made in Christian thinking from Jesus being the “incarnation” of God to Jesus being the creation of God, his Father. How sad that the vast majority of Christians believe the fable that God became a baby. The truth is nearly just the opposite—a baby became the Lord!" They don't seem to come right out and say it but from reading things on that site it almost sounds like they are denying the deity of Jesus?
Thanks for sharing the video. I watched all four parts. I had a few questions about it. I may still be on the 'milk of the word' so some of these things might have simple explanations that I just need some 'pointing' to grasp. Thanks
In the video, near the end, he says (talking of 1 cor 14:1) "Even though the word gift appeared twice in that verse, in the Greek text from which this was translated, the word gift never appeared. Speaking in tongues is not a gift; it is a manifestation of the Spirit. Why is that important? Because if you have the Spirit of God -- if you're a Christian, you can manifest it, you can bring it out, you can speak in tongues."
Does that contradict 1 co 12:8-12 (which seems to say 'for to one is given' and 'to another is given')?
Does that mean any Christian who has the Spirit of God also manifest or bring out prophecy? It seems like the same logic would apply?
I actually have not heard anyone propose that tongues is not a gift but a manifestation, but I believe it is both. I think the speaker in the video is looking at it in a way that I do, which is that any Christian should be able to manifest tongues in prayer and in worship privately speaking to God, by virtue of the fact that Holy Spirit is living in our spirits and can communicate with God outside of our minds. We already have the ability, but we need to learn how to appropriate it. But the actual gift of tongues is one that Holy Spirit brings to people for use in the Body of Christ to deliver messages from God Himself to the assembly. That particular gift operates not without another gift---interpretation.
Wow! You have certainly done some investigation and you are right to question that. I certainly do.
I don't think I'd heard anyone say that before either, but that's what he says toward the end of part 1 of 4 of the video "Speaking in tongues is not a gift; it is a manifestation of the Spirit".
If any Christian should be able to manifest tongues in prayer, should s/he also be able to manifest prophesy and interpretation? It seems like Paul talks about them all similarly in 1 Co 14.
I'm glad it wasn't just me who questioned those statements. It just makes me think if I find myself questioning what that teacher in the video represents about Christ, should I also question his other teachings? When I look at Matthew Henry's commentary on the first few verses of 1Jo 4, he says "Jesus Christ is to be confessed as the Son of God, the eternal life and Word, that was with the Father from the beginning; as the Son of God that came into, and came in, our human mortal nature, and therein suffered and died at Jerusalem." If Jesus Christ was "with the Father from the beginning", it just seems like what that teacher in the video represents about "nothing is lost if a shift is made in Christian thinking from Jesus being the “incarnation” of God to Jesus being the creation of God, his Father" has to be false.
I don't believe so. Communing with God in personal praise and worship is when this ability is used. It is for our personal edification in Christ.
Yes, he is believing something false. You are quick to catch that. Thank you.
Hi Euphemia thanks for your response
I'm not sure. I was reading some of Andrew Wommack's teaching. He says "We don't have to wait for the anointing of the Holy Spirit to come on us to speak in tongues. We can pray in tongues at any time. It's not us turning on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is always on and giving us the ability to speak in tongues. Therefore, whenever we turn ourselves on, the gift of tongues is there to allow us to communicate with our heavenly Father. Praise the Lord! That's the way it is with all the gifts."Hi Euphemia thanks for your response
I agree with Andrew. Once we have experienced that baptism of the Holy Spirit and He has bestowed any of His gifts, we are free at any time to put them into operation. We don't have to wait for the "unction". We have it. It's like jumping into a lazy river---it's always flowing, but you can't enjoy it until you dive in.
I knew there was something I liked about that video. It is a perfect example of how over emphasis on the HS "gifts" and experiencial truth over scripture and Christ can and does lead to error. Good post, Porcupine. The following is the 2nd to last episode in the strange fire conference. I hope people will watch before critiquing it. It is titled "An Appeal to Charismatic Friends" (The last is an appeal to Charismatic pretenders):
When a believer gets the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit', does s/he always get the gift/manifestation of tongues?
Can a believer be indwelt by the Holy Spirit but not have received the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit'?
Can a believer be indwelt by the Holy Spirit but not have received the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit'?
He has the ability, but the manifestation isn't always there.
All believers have the indwelling Holy Spirit. He comes in to live within the human spirit at salvation. However, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a subsequent experience to salvation (usually), when Holy Spirit comes in with power and anointing---His enablement for us to do the works He calls us to, and to use our spiritual giftings with ease and success.
Are there some places in Scripture where I could learn more about that (those who have received the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' to having the ability to speak in tongues though they might not manifest it)? Thanks. I'm looking at some places in Acts at the moment.
Read the entire book of Acts to start. Everyone there spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit's baptism. Today, it doesn't always happen because people are afraid of it and won't open their mouths.
Thank you for that video. I'll check it out. I remember his "Strange Fire" conference suffered a lot of criticism at the time it was held. And even Mark Driscoll attempted to crash the conference.
Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS)
“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
Elie Wiesel
Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS)
“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
Thanks for the correction on the signature Scripture Bird, I didn't realize Wiesal said it too.
I forgot which episode MacArthur says it, either this episode above or the last, he refers to someone in the audience (I forgot the name - it was one I didn't recognize) and there was some light laughter - could it be Driscoll who' s "crash" was successful? Even welcomed?
I didn't realize Wiesal said it too. I forgot which episode MacArthur says it, either this episode above or the last, he refers to someone in the audience (I forgot the name - it was one I didn't recognize) and there was some light laughter - could it be Driscoll who' s "crash" was successful? Even welcomed?
You're most welcome .
I found this site that may help with the Strange Fire video. I'm listening to it now. Taking a break from the very emotional Justin Ross Harris probable cause hearing concerning his alleged murder of his baby boy in a hot car.
Testing the Spirits (John MacArthur) Selected Scriptures
I like the rest of the quote as well, altho I never thought of the rest of Wiesel's quote. It seems to put passion at the forefront, whereas my thinking was to the point that hate is a corruption of love and not equal, in any sense to the power of love, where indifference is just death.
I read thru your link, and seems to cover what was said, pretty much in the video, yes? If there are differences, I didn't spot them but I read quickly. Edit* That is the 1st video of the OP which is #6 of the episodes. The latest episode posted is #18.
Not at all familiar with Justin Ross Harris. Have heard of similar type cases many times. It's always sad.
I read thru your link, and seems to cover what was said, pretty much in the video, yes? If there are differences, I didn't spot them but I read quickly. Edit* That is the 1st video of the OP which is #6 of the episodes. The latest episode posted is #18.
Not at all familiar with Justin Ross Harris. Have heard of similar type cases many times. It's always sad.
Last edited:
Thanks, I'm working on Acts. I was also wondering, can a person who doesn't have the Holy Spirit speak in tongues?