The Tree of Life

2404 said:
Hello Major
Let me ask you. Are you not now eating from the tree of life?
After the fall they were cast out of the garden and fellowship was broken so in their imperfect condition it made it impossible to partake. Now a way has been provided through Christ's atonement and we are again able to partake.
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YES!

Christ resurrected the tree of life by His cross and granted everlasting life to mankind once again.

Matthew 16:24..........
"Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

To eat of the tree of life now is to follow Christ by bearing our cross in repentance and love for God.

Rev. 2:7........
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."
 
Major said:
You are asking what men have been asking for thousands of years.

Romans 8:28...........
"For those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."

I am not the expert but one reason is that we are HUMAN.
Another reason is SIN which affects the saved and the lost.

The concept of suffering entered the world at the fall of Adam and Eve. The moment they chose to disobey… everything changed. Sin entered the world. Consequently, our world has suffering in all forms- physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally and relationally. However we aren’t built for pain. We were made for glory.

Pain is not optional, rather it is part of living in this world. Jesus plainly states......
“In this world you will have trouble”.

Suffering comes directly from God, Satan, our own sinful choices or as a natural consequence of living in a broken world.

Also, if we are honest with ourselves and admitt it, we uselly talk with God when we need something or want something.
So when we are in pain, or suffering a loss what is the 1st thing we say............O GOD HELP ME!!!!

Suffering and pain is what motivates us to seek out God and talk to Him!!!!!
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Surely, Adam and Even would have experienced pain while living in the Garden of Eden. Examples are a stubbed toe, a banged elbow, a bumped head, etc. I don't think that God would be such a nanny-god that He would prevent A&E from experiencing these kinds of accidents. Would you, as a parent, not let your children experience life fully -which includes experiencing pain- and hang over them like a helicopter parent? To us, God is our Parent. There would definitely be pain in A&E's lives while in the Garden.

You define suffering in terms of the emotional pain that events and circumstances can have on our psyche. I define suffering more inclusively. I define it to include physical as well as emotional pain. If you asked Adam or Eve if they are suffering after they had banged their elbow or bumped their head, I'm sure they would say to you that they are suffering. So, from my definition, there would be pain and suffering in the Garden BEFORE A&E had sinned by eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on your statement "... we aren't built for pain". Of course we're built for pain; we have pain receptors in our bodies. They were put there to help us survive by letting us know (by the pain signal) that we are in danger of not surviving. However, I do agree with you that "We were made for glory".

We, as Christians, have given our lives over to Jesus Christ, and as long as we continue to remain faithful to Him, we needn't worry about going to hell. But why do we still suffer? You would think that it would be great advertising to show people that we no longer suffer since receiving Jesus into our lives. But that is not the case. Why? Could it be that Jesus and God want us to develop strong character, like any parent? To grow to a place that will allow us to overcome life's calamities with equanimity. Is that not the overall reason we are here? Surely, Jesus's task is to help us do that.
 
Douglas King said:
Surely, Adam and Even would have experienced pain while living in the Garden of Eden. Examples are a stubbed toe, a banged elbow, a bumped head, etc. I don't think that God would be such a nanny-god that He would prevent A&E from experiencing these kinds of accidents. Would you, as a parent, not let your children experience life fully -which includes experiencing pain- and hang over them like a helicopter parent? To us, God is our Parent. There would definitely be pain in A&E's lives while in the Garden.

You define suffering in terms of the emotional pain that events and circumstances can have on our psyche. I define suffering more inclusively. I define it to include physical as well as emotional pain. If you asked Adam or Eve if they are suffering after they had banged their elbow or bumped their head, I'm sure they would say to you that they are suffering. So, from my definition, there would be pain and suffering in the Garden BEFORE A&E had sinned by eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on your statement "... we aren't built for pain". Of course we're built for pain; we have pain receptors in our bodies. They were put there to help us survive by letting us know (by the pain signal) that we are in danger of not surviving. However, I do agree with you that "We were made for glory".

We, as Christians, have given our lives over to Jesus Christ, and as long as we continue to remain faithful to Him, we needn't worry about going to hell. But why do we still suffer? You would think that it would be great advertising to show people that we no longer suffer since receiving Jesus into our lives. But that is not the case. Why? Could it be that Jesus and God want us to develop strong character, like any parent? To grow to a place that will allow us to overcome life's calamities with equanimity. Is that not the overall reason we are here? Surely, Jesus's task is to help us do that.
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I think you have misunderstood what I said. Allow me to post it again...........

"The concept of suffering entered the world at the fall of Adam and Eve. The moment they chose to disobey… everything changed. Sin entered the world. Consequently, our world has suffering in all forms- physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally and relationally. However we aren’t built for pain. We were made for glory."

Maybe I did not say it correctly but I did not mean that we as humans do not have pain and suffering. Considered the next statement I made...............

"Pain is not optional, rather it is part of living in this world. "!!!!

I was not referring to pain receptors or the like but simply that God created man to have fellowship with Him and in the end to GLORIFY him for heaven.
“In this world you will have trouble”.
 
Major said:
I think that we need to remember that death exists in the world today because of Adam's sin, not because of Adam and Eve’s lack of knowledge (cf. Romans 5:12). In other words, God did not punish Adam and Eve with death for simply “not knowing” something but for acting against what they already knew to be right. Death was a consequence of their disobedience, not their ignorance.
That being the case, then they would have been immortal since DEATH came by SIN.

In the end, we must come to think of Adam and Eve the way Scripture portrays them: as responsible, comprehending adults who rebelled against the authority of their Maker. They knew and understood that they were disobeying God, yet they ate of the fruit that was “a delight to the eyes, and . . . desirable to make one wise” (Genesis 3:6).
This was not an accident or a mistake; it was a choice. And that is the reason that God was justified in sentencing them—and us—to death.

The moment Adam ate the fruit he died spiritually. He lived another 960 years physically but he died spiritually and now we all pay the price.
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So, now you believe A&E were immortal before they sinned: "...then they would have been immortal since DEATH came by SIN." Before, you believed they were mortal:
"Adam and Eve were mortal before they sinned. They were mortal in that they physically could have died even though they had not yet sinned."
Am I understanding what you are saying correctly? Are Adam and Eve mortal or immortal?
 
This is an interesting thread. Not entirely sure what is being prosecuted here but I am enjoying the ride.
Personally I find the references to the Tree of Life in Revelation to be more helpful/fruitful 🙂 than those in Genesis, or maybe it’s that the combined sum of the two is greater.
Some examples:

Revelation 2:7 KJV
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

*Also, there is not one, but seemingly at least two Trees of Life(?) and each with 12 ‘manor’ of fruits and leaves that heal.

Revelation 22:1-2 KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
 
Douglas King said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "We have a sin nature", though. Can you clarify?
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I can't answer for Via dolarossa but I believe God's Word says...

(Eph 2:1) And you were dead in your offenses and sins,
(Eph 2:2) in which you previously walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
(Eph 2:3) Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest.


It's our nature until we are born again...

(2Co 5:17) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
 
I believe Adam and Eve were only immortal as long as they had access to the tree of life, God said they could eat of this tree. However, once they sinned they lost the access to the garden and so were fully mortal. The tree of Life in heaven is more puzzling to me as death has been cast into the lake of fire and God has said He will wipe away every tear and pain shall be no more, what healing will the nations need?
 
Hebs.5:8 ( context 6-9 )
Though he were a Son,yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;


Rms.5:19 ( context 17-20 )
For as by ones man disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one
many shall be made righteous.
 
Dave F. said:
The tree of Life in heaven is more puzzling to me
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Dear Dave, Yes that is very interesting.

Several interesting ideas in Revelation concerning the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life in Revelation seems to be something more, and something less, than found in Genesis.

Revelation here suggests, but doesn’t prove, that all healing hasn’t been completed and more is needed.

Also interesting is that number 12 showing up again in scripture. Here is written, “…was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month”.

Twelve fruits every month, is that one for every month of our year? Regardless, our concept or measurement of months is based on the moon's motion around the earth and our years on the Earth’s rotation around the sun.

Is there a calendar in Paradise, and perhaps even more curiously, a moon, a sun and therefore, day and night?

Perhaps when Major reaches Revelation 22:1 in his Revelation thread these questions can be part of his discourse?
 
Via dolarossa said:
did Adam and Eve not know God was good in the garden before the fall?
if they only knew good and evil after the fall, then they mustn't have even known God was even good.... so is that why the tree of immortality was there for?
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You are asking the
Via dolarossa said:
did Adam and Eve not know God was good in the garden before the fall?
if they only knew good and evil after the fall, then they mustn't have even known God was even good.... so is that why the tree of immortality was there for?
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Since A&E were sinless, they were immortal, so it didn't matter if they ate from the Tree of Immortality. It had nothing to do with their perception of whether God was good or not. However, after A&E sinned, they could not be allowed to eat from the Tree of Immortality because of the threat to their wellbeing.
 
blueskies said:
Dear Dave, Yes that is very interesting.

Several interesting ideas in Revelation concerning the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life in Revelation seems to be something more, and something less, than found in Genesis.

Revelation here suggests, but doesn’t prove, that all healing hasn’t been completed and more is needed.

Also interesting is that number 12 showing up again in scripture. Here is written, “…was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month”.

Twelve fruits every month, is that one for every month of our year? Regardless, our concept or measurement of months is based on the moon's motion around the earth and our years on the Earth’s rotation around the sun.

Is there a calendar in Paradise, and perhaps even more curiously, a moon, a sun and therefore, day and night?

Perhaps when Major reaches Revelation 22:1 in his Revelation thread these questions can be part of his discourse?
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Yes sir, the number "12" is an interesting and important number.

Number 12, typically means perfection or authority—often used in a context of government. For instance, because Jacob has 12 sons, they form the 12 tribes of Israel. There are also 12 Minor prophets.

Jesus chose 12 Disciples and they became the 12 Apostles

Jesus heals a woman who had been bleeding for 12 years, and there are 24 Elders in The Revelation which is 12 x 12!

However, 12, more often than not, tends to represent something good. The new Jerusalem, for instance, is stocked full of the number 12. 12 gates, 12 angels, 12 foundations, etc.

Now I am in no way an authority on this. It seems like to me that the river of the water of life and the tree of life in Revelation 22 represent the life of eternal fellowship with God and Christ. The first time we read about the tree of life is in the garden of Eden in Genesis. The tree of life was put in the midst of the garden (Genesis 2:9). When Adam and Eve sinned, they had to be cast out of the garden. This symbolized their separation from God. They could not be in eternal fellowship with God nor be in the presence of God because of sin. Eternal separation from God is the second death. The tree of life is now in the midst of New Jerusalem, representing God’s people having full fellowship with God and full access to God forever. This access and this healing is available to all people, not a select group. Anyone can be part of God’s people and join in this eternal fellowship to come by their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

But that is just me.
 
Via dolarossa said:
did Adam and Eve not know God was good in the garden before the fall?
if they only knew good and evil after the fall, then they mustn't have even known God was even good.... so is that why the tree of immortality was there for?
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Sister.....I would first point out that the Bible never says that Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong.

In fact, Genesis 3:2–3 is clear that they did understand the difference between right and wrong because Eve knew God had instructed her and Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit.

Now it is true that, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve had no experience of evil. But they understood the concept of good and evil perfectly well, or they would not have known what obedience to God’s instructions meant. The point is that Adam and Eve had not yet sinned until they ate from the tree, and their sin was the gateway to firsthand, experiential knowledge of the difference between good and evil.
 
Major said:
Sister.....I would first point out that the Bible never says that Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong.

In fact, Genesis 3:2–3 is clear that they did understand the difference between right and wrong because Eve knew God had instructed her and Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit.

Now it is true that, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve had no experience of evil. But they understood the concept of good and evil perfectly well, or they would not have known what obedience to God’s instructions meant. The point is that Adam and Eve had not yet sinned until they ate from the tree, and their sin was the gateway to firsthand, experiential knowledge of the difference between good and evil.
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Besides, guilty parties don't hide.
 
The tree of life appears in heaven, so saved believers will have access to it freely.

We'll be sinless in heaven, so living forever won't then be a hardship lol

I think it said the leaves are for healing of the nations, and there are twelve different fruits for every month, so it will be quite an amazing tree. Trees are pretty amazing in themselves already, but this one is special.

I guess after all the wars on earth between nations, this tree (olive branch? ) is a peacemaker.

Some nations do have leaves or trees on their flags, eg Canada - maple leaf
New Zealand sports flags usually has a silver fern
Cyprus - olive
Lebanon - cedar

Note that when Adam and Eve sinned, they covered themselves with fig leaves. It may have hid their sin but it also might have mopped up/staunched the blood.
 
Major said:
Sister.....I would first point out that the Bible never says that Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong.

In fact, Genesis 3:2–3 is clear that they did understand the difference between right and wrong because Eve knew God had instructed her and Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit.

Now it is true that, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve had no experience of evil. But they understood the concept of good and evil perfectly well, or they would not have known what obedience to God’s instructions meant. The point is that Adam and Eve had not yet sinned until they ate from the tree, and their sin was the gateway to firsthand, experiential knowledge of the difference between good and evil.
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Hello Major
Agreed that Adam and Eve knew what they could and what they should not do. But Eve was decieved, thinking she could improve her situation, becoming wise. Do you think Adam was also deceived? When Eve offered the fruit to Adam was she doing it with clear conscience, implying that at that point she did not yet realize... And so it was only after they both partook that they realized they were naked? So was the disobedience confined to an item, in which case Eve should have realized it right away, or was it in the doing?
If it was in the doing why would the realization only come after eating with Adam?
 
Ok, so they knew it was wrong to disobey, but didn’t know why it was wrong to disobey, and because they were told they would die, they only then knew death as an idea, not an experience. and since they had conflicting information ( satans interference) they wanted to see it for themselves?

Reminds me of when I was little and my dad told me not to go in the deep end in the pool or I will die, and being disobedient I did swim in the deep end because I didn’t know what he meant-and I nearly drowned my dad had to save me!
 
Via dolarossa said:
Reminds me of when I was little and my dad told me not to go in the deep end in the pool or I will die, and being disobedient I did swim in the deep end because I didn’t know what he meant-and I nearly drowned my dad had to save me!
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Dear Via,
There is an interesting idea imbedded in your story.

That is, you went in the deep end of the pool, despite your father’s warning, but perhaps with the unconscious confidence that he, being your loving father, would save you if you needed saving.
 
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