The written Word God vs Jesus as the Word of God

Revelation 21:4 KJV - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Stories in the written will bring sorrow. The written has an end. To understand Matt 24:35 you need 24:34 otherwise you have a contradiction, which we don't have :D
 
If everything in the earth is dissolved, everything written then too...

2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV - But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 
Revelation 21:4 KJV - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Stories in the written will bring sorrow. The written has an end. To understand Matt 24:35 you need 24:34 otherwise you have a contradiction, which we don't have :D
Why do you assume that stories in the written will bring sorrow? Take the example Jesus gave in John 16:20-22. Even we can experience that joy here on earth and forget the pain of the past, how much more so in that day mentioned in Revelation?
 
Mathew 24:33-35
Throwen in 33 just cause I can ! :cool:
33. So Like wise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34.. Verely I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35...Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
 
Why do you assume that stories in the written will bring sorrow? Take the example Jesus gave in John 16:20-22. Even we can experience that joy here on earth and forget the pain of the past, how much more so in that day mentioned in Revelation?
Because Revelation says the former things will pass away, no more tears... What Adam did and the death of the billions throughout history brings sorrow, even what Jesus did on the cross brings sorrow and yet joy. To remember them is not what the word of God says. I'm sorry I'm not articulate enough. :) It doesn't matter. Just trying to be accurate.
 
Why do you assume that stories in the written will bring sorrow? Take the example Jesus gave in John 16:20-22. Even we can experience that joy here on earth and forget the pain of the past, how much more so in that day mentioned in Revelation?

Jesus was talking about their sorrow for the fact He was leaving them but He would be back and they would see Him again and this Joy no one could take away... Am I missing something here ?
 
Luk 4:4.. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

How is man expected live without having "every word of God"? Can something eternal ever pass away? Jesus said, "my words are spirit, and they are life." Can spirit, and life ever pass away?

Psa 119:89 Lamedh. Forever, O LORD, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens.

Before the word of God ever came to earth it was already fixed in Heaven. Nothing is written on earth as scripture without it first being written in Heaven.

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

When this earth passes away surely my physical Bible will pass away, but not the written words contained with in them.

Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Even though the written word of God is made up ink, and paper in a book form, but that is not what makes them eternal. It is the "thoughts" they convey to us that come in the form of words. Can God's thoughts ever pass away? I would say never!
 
The written Word of God is more reliable than any of those because the Holy Spirit and "visions" could end up being from yourself, and the Word can never go wrong.
Your own comprehension of that written word can also end up being merely from yourself. If this was not the case, there would be no denominations would there. Everybody would believe exactly the same when they read their bibles!
 
The word of God is perfect in the originals. The Word of God is perfect in every way. The word of God will always point you to the Word of God. Not everything is in the word of God. Everything is in the Word of God. The word of God will be completed. The Word of God is complete. You don't need the word of God. You must have the Word of God. The word of God will be done with and forgotten. The Word of God is eternal and will be praised forever. The word of God is not God. The Word of God is God.
Stunning!
 
Yes, because it says so right there in Hebrews 4:12
Why does everybody assume that Hebrews4v12 refers to the written word/bible? Look at the context and it makes it clear that the reference is about hearing and responding to the very person of Jesus himself, not to the scriptures. The whole lead up through chapter 3 is about hearing his voice, then the follow up afterwards is about Jesus our high priest. Isolating the middle bit as a reference to the bible makes no sense at all when the whole passage is about the Lord himself.
I apologise for pasting such a long piece here, but Hebrews chapter3 continues into chapter4 leading up to Hebrews4v12. Read it in your bibles to see properly. This is all a reference to Psalm95 which is extolling the character of God himself, not the bible.

Hebrews3v7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice, 8do not harden your hearts...........

.............3v15As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts......."

Hebrews4v1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.
4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,ejust as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

12For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.16Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.


Just how can verse 12 refer to the bible rather than the Lord Jesus himself through the Holy Spirit speaking in our hearts.
To substitute the bible instead of Jesus is doing precisely what the foregoing warns against, the hardening of the hearts.
 
Why does everybody assume that Hebrews4v12 refers to the written word/bible? Look at the context and it makes it clear that the reference is about hearing and responding to the very person of Jesus himself, not to the scriptures. The whole lead up through chapter 3 is about hearing his voice, then the follow up afterwards is about Jesus our high priest. Isolating the middle bit as a reference to the bible makes no sense at all when the whole passage is about the Lord himself.
I apologise for pasting such a long piece here, but Hebrews chapter3 continues into chapter4 leading up to Hebrews4v12. Read it in your bibles to see properly. This is all a reference to Psalm95 which is extolling the character of God himself, not the bible.

Hebrews3v7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice, 8do not harden your hearts...........

.............3v15As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts......."

Hebrews4v1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.
4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,ejust as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

12For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.16Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.


Just how can verse 12 refer to the bible rather than the Lord Jesus himself through the Holy Spirit speaking in our hearts.
To substitute the bible instead of Jesus is doing precisely what the foregoing warns against, the hardening of the hearts.
I went back and read the context you gave; I read all of chapter 3 and 4. Indeed they are talking about Jesus throughout, but I believe it is important to notice how the language changes when it is talking about the gospel/word in chapter 4 verse 2: "for indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those that heard it." This verse immediately stood out to me and I believe it directly relates to verse 12. Notice how in verse 12 the "word of God" is described as if it is a thing, even though it is alive and active? Up until this verse the writer of this letter was very specific in his use of language when referring to God/Jesus. The words used clearly indicate that he is referring to a person. Why would he all of a sudden change his manner of writing for one verse? I believe the answer can be found in this: the written word of God and God Himself are inseparable..they are one. Although there is a distinction between them, they are one, in the same way Jesus and the Father are one. This is why Jesus could say things like: "the words that I speak to you they are spirit and they are life" and, "heaven and earth will pass away but My words will by no means pass away." His words are alive and active because they have power, they have power to bring life and change lives.
 
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I went back and read the context you gave; I read all of chapter 3 and 4. Indeed they are talking about Jesus throughout, but I believe it is important to notice how the language changes when it is talking about the gospel/word in chapter 4 verse 2: "for indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those that heard it." This verse immediately stood out to me and I believe it directly relates to verse 12. Notice how in verse 12 the "word of God" is described as if it is a thing, even though it is alive and active? Up until this verse the writer of this letter was very specific in his use of language when referring to God/Jesus. The words used clearly indicate that he is referring to a person. Why would he all of a sudden change his manner of writing for one verse? I believe the answer can be found in this: the written word of God and God Himself are inseparable..they are one. Although there is a distinction between them, they are one, in the same way Jesus and the Father are one. This is why Jesus could say things like: "the words that I speak to you they are spirit and they are life" and, "heaven and earth will pass away but My words will by no means pass away." His words are alive and active because they have power, they have power to bring life and change lives.
Ok, so lets figure this out. First, can man change God? No. Second, can man change the word of God? Yep, sadly too often. There is spiritual life in God's written word, but not the pages they reside on. The Holy Spirit gives us the information we need to find Him, and by Him we understand the letters presented to us, and by Him we are made alive. The written bible on my desk is not alive, physically, spiritually alive, still iffy, because it's the Holy Spirit that gives life via the words of God. To think a demon is afraid of a book is introducing voodoo into your beliefs like the movies of old when a cross was presented to keep dracula away. Don't get caught up in foolish questions, they only lead to misunderstandings and misgivings. Remember too, a lot of the KJV is poetic in it's wording, and absolutely no word in either Greek or Hebrew is lower cased, they're both written in uppercase font. On the internet, that would be called SHOUTING, which I think that's 100% appropriate ;)
 
I went back and read the context you gave; I read all of chapter 3 and 4. Indeed they are talking about Jesus throughout, but I believe it is important to notice how the language changes when it is talking about the gospel/word in chapter 4 verse 2: "for indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those that heard it." This verse immediately stood out to me and I believe it directly relates to verse 12. Notice how in verse 12 the "word of God" is described as if it is a thing, even though it is alive and active? Up until this verse the writer of this letter was very specific in his use of language when referring to God/Jesus. The words used clearly indicate that he is referring to a person. Why would he all of a sudden change his manner of writing for one verse? I believe the answer can be found in this: the written word of God and God Himself are inseparable..they are one. Although there is a distinction between them, they are one, in the same way Jesus and the Father are one. This is why Jesus could say things like: "the words that I speak to you they are spirit and they are life" and, "heaven and earth will pass away but My words will by no means pass away." His words are alive and active because they have power, they have power to bring life and change lives.

Thanks Mykuhl.
I think I pasted the NIV version where it uses "it" in reference to the Logos, however there is no "it" in either v2 or v12 of the Greek original. Thus I can see no actual change in the way the word Logos is referred to.

As you say, the words used clearly indicate he is referring to a person. However the Word/logos himself, God, and the words written down must surely be quite separable otherwise we wouldn't ever see those words being used maliciously as indeed they often are. Scripture can equally be used as a tool of Satan. Unless the things of God are received in the spirit, they are valueless to us.

As an aside, also look at this to see how it works elsewhere.-
Matt16v13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

The disciples had been witnessing everything that Jesus did for some considerable time when he asks this simple question. Peter gives the correct answer, but look at what Jesus then says.
".....flesh and blood has not revealed it to you." This is a very strange statement because they had been eating sleeping and walking every day with Jesus himself, the biggest possible flesh and blood evidence ever available. Nevertheless, Jesus discounts his physical presence as of relevance to the question, for the simple reason that it is our spiritual witness alone that counts.

"......for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

It is the last phrase alone that counts. All truths are revealed by our Father in Heaven, and he does it by the Holy Spirit speaking directly one to one with our human spirit. Any other evidence, unless validated by the spirit, is rotten fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of good or evil. (ie. The Tree of Death as opposed to the Tree of Life).
That is why two people standing next to each other in an evangelical meeting can give two completely different responses. One has the truth interpreted by the Holy Spirit, the other totally ignores his spirit, and rejects the word by his intellect, which is a part of the flesh. The flesh of course being a mortal enemy of the spirit. The latter man's eyes and ears are "waxed gross", as the King James would put it. Deaf and blind to truth, despite hearing the same words.

That is why the bible is useless when taught intellectually or heard intellectually. Scripture is specific that nobody comes to Christ via an intellectual appreciation of what Jesus did for us.

Read about the disciples on the road to Emmaus, when Jesus comes and walks beside them discussing the crucifixion. They also were deaf and blind until they started to take notice of the yelling and screaming for attention that was going on in their hearts.
Luke24v32They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road,
The above scripture is quite hilarious really, but that is precisely where we need to be, taking clear notice of our heart/spirit, rather than our intellect.
 
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