Tongues And Prophecy - Benefit For Whom?

[TalkJesus]

Wrong again, Paul, " wanted everyone to speak in tongues"

1Co 14:5 = I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Speaking in tongues carries the same weight as prophesying, they are the same when there is a interpreter.

Again, it carries the same weight only when the gift of interpretation follows it which is why it is not a stand alone gift and why prophesying is greater.

You had emboldened the first portion of that verse but in missing out the main point Paul was making as to why prophesy was greater than tongues because prophesy can stand alone, but tongues cannot.

1Co 14:5 = I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

 

[CCW95A]

Again, it carries the same weight only when the gift of interpretation follows it which is why it is not a stand alone gift and why prophesying is greater.

You had emboldened the first portion of that verse but in missing out the main point Paul was making as to why prophesy was greater than tongues because prophesy can stand alone, but tongues cannot.

1Co 14:5 = I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

He that speaketh in a "unknown tongue" can pray that he may interpret. Speaking in tongues in a Church setting can be done by just one person. The person speaking can also give the interpretation. It all depends on as the "Spirit" wills and not man. The only limitation is that it should be by two or three at the most, and they should all go one at a time.

1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

 

[Ravindran]

12 pages before I get a chance to come to a thread I started! I don't think I am going to go through all these pages now.. I know what everyone believes here. Have spent enough time with everyone

I will ask one question though.. I think we all can (and should) agree that at the time of Pentecost, everyone in the upper room spoke in human language. I don't accept the argument that the miracle there was in hearing rather than speaking.. Rest of the Bible does not support something like that. So clearly it was speaking in foreign human languages which happened in Pentecost..

Then we see Paul talking about praying in tongues, utterances in spirit, etc.. All these other references could still refer to speaking in foreign languages and not an unknown language.. But let's not get there.. My question is this.. If today pentecostals and charismatics consider the experience of pentecost to be normal for today also, then no one at the time of pentecost talked in an unknown language. At what time the gift of speaking unknown language start?

 

[JustPassingThru]

I do not doubt God has been and is working in your life and just because some believers in here erroneously believe that tongues can be used as a prayyer language, it does not mean Christ is not in them nor working at all in their lives. The church at Thyatira in Revelations can have "faith" and "works" and "charity" and so forth, but still the Lord can have a few "serious" offenses that the church needs to address in preparing with repentance by His grace & by His help to meet the Bridegroom or risk being cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation.

I do doubt you giving credit to the laying on of hands when it was your prayers to God and thus God answering your prayers that you are where you are today.

I do doubt your preaching the experience of another infilling as something God wants you to do, because you were warned not to believe every spirit when He is in you by faith. 1 John 4:1 1 John 4:4 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 2 Corinthians 13:5

The fact that you had testified to an infilling by the laying on of hands for the ministry is why I doubt that portion of your testimony of God working in your life because that had nothing to do with it, but by testifying to it, you gave the credit for any difference in your life by that infilling moment instead of by your faith in Jesus Christ. When you testify like that, that makes other believers seek that same experience for them to know that God is working in their lives. See?

A neighbor across the street from where I live testified that she was reading her Bible one day when she felt the Holy Spirit come over her and began to speak in tongues. She said that was the moment she was saved because she got it all at once. I ahd asked her what she was reading in the Bible that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant, but went on to explain that she had asked her pastor why that had happened because she was a believer long before that moment. She testified that the pastor pointed to the Book of Acts which I assumed was Acts 2nd chapter when the disciples were waiting around doing every day thing when they had received the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost to be officially saved.

See what I mean? By her changed testimony as to when she was saved, other believers may be misled into thinking they need tongues to know that they are saved and so some do seek an infilling that does come with evidence of tongues but it was never of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

They can have that expereince and add weight to the lie that one must speak in tongues to know that they had the initial infilling of the Holy Spirit to know that they are saved.

And so I doubt that portion of your testimony because that infilling expereince that you had, had nothing to do with God working in your life than it did for those that had the similar expereince but with the sign of tongues to testify to it in chnaging their testimony as to when they were saved so that others may be misled into bcoming an adulterous generation in departing from faith in Jesus Chrsit in seeking to receive the "Holy Spirit" "again" and after a sign, even the sensational sign of feeling this infilling in the flesh.

So like in the church at Thyatira, God can be working in that church, but when they commit spiritual fornication by chasing after seducing spirits to receive them after a sign, then they are no longer serving the faith in Jesus Christ, but a departure from that faith. They too can be testified of as knowing the depth of Satan for which they speak; which I see it as tongues that comes with no interpretation.

It is the prayer that God answers; not the laying on of hands; not the oil that they are anointed by; and not this second infilling that is the work of seducing spirits in misleading other saved believers into chasing after to receive after a sign. That is why we are not to believe every spirit but test them; see what they are misleading us to believe; does it take our eyes off of the Son in changing our testimony as to when we were filled so as to mislead others in chasing after them for a sign? Then it is not of Him.

This is not saying God was not working in their lives or in your life still, but we were warned not to believe every spirit as they would love to steal the spotlight away from the Son so that they be given credit for the good in God's working in their lives. or for Jesus Christ having saved them earlier by faith alone in Him.

TJ brother, I question your ability your listen (no offense meant), why, because what you say I said isn't written in what I wrote, ...instead of listening with an open ear, you listen with a filter, ...and that is one of the common errors of not listening with correct listening skills (sorry for being technical, but we taught listening skills back in the states).

If you had been listening you would of heard a testimony and not what you call preaching, a testimony of faith and faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God, I explained how God accomplished what He had told me to do in faith, granted it was short, if I were to write in books what he has done in my life I could write hundreds of volumes for the last 23 years since I've been here.

But let's continue on with your presumption, is it Biblically sound?

If what has been accomplished through a deception of satan, then he is a big fool, because everything has been done/accomplished for the glory Jesus Christ, Jesus has received the credit and glory for what He has done in my life from my mouth and there are plenty of witnesses to that fact,

...so if you are correct, then Ezekiel was wrong,

Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Eze 28:12

So now you need to answer why satan would continue to use me and bless me when the Gospel is being preached, the Word is being taught, people are growing in the grace, knowledge and love of the Lord Jesus Christ and people are being set free from his kingdom of darkness, ...seems I remember the Lord saying if satan be divided his kingdom will fall.

Love ya bro, but you are where the Lord wants you to be and I'm where He wants me to be, please go back and reread my post, ...ask yourself, could you leave family and friends, everything you have behind and step out in faith to do what he asked me to do?

What'ta you say we just love Jesus together in the respective ministries we have and not judge each others, ...I'm sure when we meet in Heaven we will forget about all of this triviality on this dying planet.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[TalkJesus]

TJ brother, I question your ability your listen (no offense meant), why, because what you say I said isn't written in what I wrote, ...instead of listening with an open ear, you listen with a filter, ...and that is one of the common errors of not listening with correct listening skills (sorry for being technical, but we taught listening skills back in the states).

If you had been listening you would of heard a testimony and not what you call preaching, a testimony of faith and faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God, I explained how God accomplished what He had told me to do in faith, granted it was short, if I were to write in books what he has done in my life I could write hundreds of volumes for the last 23 years since I've been here.

But let's continue on with your presumption, is it Biblically sound?

If what has been accomplished through a deception of satan, then he is a big fool, because everything has been done/accomplished for the glory Jesus Christ, Jesus has received the credit and glory for what He has done in my life from my mouth and there are plenty of witnesses to that fact,

...so if you are correct, then Ezekiel was wrong,

Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Eze 28:12

So now you need to answer why satan would continue to use me and bless me when the Gospel is being preached, the Word is being taught, people are growing in the grace, knowledge and love of the Lord Jesus Christ and people are being set free from his kingdom of darkness, ...seems I remember the Lord saying if satan be divided his kingdom will fall.

Love ya bro, but you are where the Lord wants you to be and I'm where He wants me to be, please go back and reread my post, ...ask yourself, could you leave family and friends, everything you have behind and step out in faith to do what he asked me to do?

What'ta you say we just love Jesus together in the respective ministries we have and not judge each others, ...I'm sure when we meet in Heaven we will forget about all of this triviality on this dying planet.

Blessings,

Gene

God has warned the churches at Thyatira regardless of their works because they had some inqiuity that cannot be overlooked.

Judging is to be done when we are to correct one another in Christ's love and not condemn one another as if they were never saved as per example.

It is that experience of another infilling that I judged as not of Him and you need to reconsider that experience in light of scripture because there really is only one drink of the One Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ) and thus we are complete in Christ ( Colossians 2:5-10 ) as we are to guard against seducing spirits that would lead us to testify otherwise. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

God has been working in your life, but that second infilling was not of Him and had nothing to do with Him working in your life. That is the point of rebuke so that you may be sound in the faith.

 

[CCW95A]

12 pages before I get a chance to come to a thread I started! I don't think I am going to go through all these pages now.. I know what everyone believes here. Have spent enough time with everyone

I will ask one question though.. I think we all can (and should) agree that at the time of Pentecost, everyone in the upper room spoke in human language. I don't accept the argument that the miracle there was in hearing rather than speaking.. Rest of the Bible does not support something like that. So clearly it was speaking in foreign human languages which happened in Pentecost..

Then we see Paul talking about praying in tongues, utterances in spirit, etc.. All these other references could still refer to speaking in foreign languages and not an unknown language.. But let's not get there.. My question is this.. If today pentecostals and charismatics consider the experience of pentecost to be normal for today also, then no one at the time of pentecost talked in an unknown language. At what time the gift of speaking unknown language start?

Speaking in a tongue is something not learned to the one speaking. His mind does understand what he is saying. It is the Holy Spirit that gives the utterance not the persons own mind.

1Co 14:2 = For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co 14:14= For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Act 2:5= Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6= And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 = And they were amazed and astonished, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

This is why those hearing in their own native language tongue were surprised, because this group of people speaking did not know their language.

 

[CCW95A]

The day of Pentecost was not when Jesus's disciples were saved. 50 days earlier Jesus appears to them after his resurrection and then he "breathes on them to receive the Holy Spirit" This is when they received the new birth. 50 days later they would be endured with power from on high. The Holy Spirit coming upon them was for power and ministry, not salvation. This power is also used for understanding scripture.

John 20:19= On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
John 20:20= When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
John 20:21= Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you."
Joh 20:22= And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Major]

Hey Major.

Whilst I agree with Silk in not pressuring anyone. Don't you think its throwing the baby out with the bath water?

1 Cor 14 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

This is not referring to another language and this is not suggesting we not pursue tongues or keep quiet if there is no interpreter.

Personally I believe only those really close to God / or really young, can speak in tongues. I don't speak often, but I respect those that do at my church. If you were there you would see it is not a sham .

My dear brother. I do hear you and I have been in so many churches I can not remember them. I understand what you are saying and we have had this conversation many times. It may seem that I am doing as you suggested and maybe I am.

But In my aged opinion I simply do not believe that the speaking in tongues done in churches today all over the land is the acceptable way that Paul told the church to do them. Now that is my opinion and every single person on this site is welcome to disagree with me and I will think not one little bit less of them or you.

My personal observation in church after church of all kinds of denominations where I had been invited, I never saw ONE SINGLE instance where tongues was spoken as described in the Scriptures. NOT ONE!!! I heard them quite often, observed them a lot but never once were they done Biblically. That is why tongues IMHO are not valid today. They were, but those days have gone by.

Now that is me. I am positive that you will say you have and I am equally positive several people will confirm that they have also. That is fine with me as I will not argue the point. But I have not. I do not know any percentages but by a great majority it would be 10 or 20 people or more at one time uttering noises at one time. Then NO ONE was interpreting anything. In concerts given, a singer would break into tongues, and the group just went right on singing and there was no interpretation given.

1 Corth. 14:22..........
“Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:
but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.”

It has been and still is my contention and understanding that the sign gifts given to Jesus’ disciples were gifts were tongues, healings, working of miracles, prophecy, raising the dead, and the discerning of spirits.

The sign gifts of supernaturally speaking the gospel in an unlearned language was a miracle that authenticated message of the Apostles as God’s genuine message. Further, less than forty years after Christ returned to heaven, the sign gifts ceased. The reason was that after Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed in 70 AD, Israel ceased from being a nation, the Jews were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire and by 95 AD the New Test. had been written.

 

[Major]

All I see is half truths being quoted. Tongues = foreign 'human' language + Tongues = unknown to man language .

How many times must 1 Cor 14:2 be posted and underlined?

And if we click on the highlight verse you posted we get this......."Explain"? When that is done we see this.........

Matthew Henry Commentary:
Prophesying, that is, explaining Scripture, is compared with speaking with tongues. This drew attention, more than the plain interpretation of Scripture; it gratified pride more, but promoted the purposes of Christian charity less; it would not equally do good to the souls of men. What cannot be understood, never can edify.
No advantage can be reaped from the most excellent discourses, if delivered in language such as the hearers cannot speak or understand. Every ability or possession is valuable in proportion to its usefulness.
Even fervent, spiritual affection must be governed by the exercise of the understanding, else men will disgrace the truths they profess to promote.

 

[CCW95A]

My dear brother. I do hear you and I have been in so many churches I can not remember them. I understand what you are saying and we have had this conversation many times. It may seem that I am doing as you suggested and maybe I am.

But In my aged opinion I simply do not believe that the speaking in tongues done in churches today all over the land is the acceptable way that Paul told the church to do them. Now that is my opinion and every single person on this site is welcome to disagree with me and I will think not one little bit less of them or you.

My personal observation in church after church of all kinds of denominations where I had been invited, I never saw ONE SINGLE instance where tongues was spoken as described in the Scriptures. NOT ONE!!! I heard them quite often, observed them a lot but never once were they done Biblically. That is why tongues IMHO are not valid today. They were, but those days have gone by.

Now that is me. I am positive that you will say you have and I am equally positive several people will confirm that they have also. That is fine with me as I will not argue the point. But I have not. I do not know any percentages but by a great majority it would be 10 or 20 people or more at one time uttering noises at one time. Then NO ONE was interpreting anything. In concerts given, a singer would break into tongues, and the group just went right on singing and there was no interpretation given.

1 Corth. 14:22..........
“Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:
but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.”

It has been and still is my contention and understanding that the sign gifts given to Jesus’ disciples were gifts were tongues, healings, working of miracles, prophecy, raising the dead, and the discerning of spirits.

The sign gifts of supernaturally speaking the gospel in an unlearned language was a miracle that authenticated message of the Apostles as God’s genuine message. Further, less than forty years after Christ returned to heaven, the sign gifts ceased. The reason was that after Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed in 70 AD, Israel ceased from being a nation, the Jews were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire and by 95 AD the New Test. had been written.

This is where the problem is, disorder and confusion in the Church

1Co 14:33= For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

1Co 14:39 = So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1Co 14:40= But all things should be done decently and in order.

 

[Major]

Wrong again, Paul, " wanted everyone to speak in tongues"

1Co 14:5 = I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Speaking in tongues carries the same weight as prophesying, they are the same when there is a interpreter.

I don't think that is the case brother. At that time, Paul admitted tongues were important," BUT he rather that ye prophesied".

Prophesy was TEACHING! Read verse #6. Paul says in that verse that any of the gifts are far SUPERIOR TO TONGUES!

Tongues do not edify and they do not profit but in fact cause more problems with personal pride than anything else.

What I ask is the modern practice of the gift of tongues the same as it is in the New Testament? The answer is no. What is practiced as modern tongues is not what happened on the Day of Pentecost as described by the New Testament. Absent today from the modern practice of tongues is
". . . sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." (Acts 2:2-3)

Further, each of those present at Pentecost were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the Gospel in a language that the person had not learned.

Acts 2:6.........
"Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.”

Acts 2:9-11 lists the sixteen languages which were spoken. It was not ecstatic speech used in prayer nor was it something they were coached to perform. Further, it was not sought or prayed for but came instantly, being given by the Holy Spirit to all present. It was given by the Holy Spirit for the benefit of those Jews who were in Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Pentecost and convey to them the “Good News” that Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah.

 

[Major]

This is where the problem is, disorder and confusion in the Church

1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1Co 14:40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

Absolutely my point brother!

And in addition to that, women are not allowed to speak in tongues in church at all. Now do not write and yell at me!!!!!
I did not have anything to do with Paul writing his comments.
Now I now already every woman is going to jump on me. BUT before you do, read what God said first and then be ready to explain it as founf in 1 Corth. 14:34...........

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands AT HOME: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

The woman is not to make a public spectacle of her husband or seek his instruction publicly before many potential commentators but should ask him to expound the Word at home.

 

[CCW95A]

Absolutely my point brother!

And in addition to that, women are not allowed to speak in tongues in church at all. Now do not write and yell at me!!!!!
I did not have anything to do with Paul writing his comments.
Now I now already every woman is going to jump on me. BUT before you do, read what God said first and then be ready to explain it as founf in 1 Corth. 14:34...........

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands AT HOME: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

The woman is not to make a public spectacle of her husband or seek his instruction publicly before many potential commentators but should ask him to expound the Word at home.

The two most hotly debated things in the Church today is the "speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of being Baptized in the Holy Spirit", and "women's role in the Church today.." would you like to jump from this frying pan to another?

 

[TalkJesus]

He that speaketh in a "unknown tongue" can pray that he may interpret. Speaking in tongues in a Church setting can be done by just one person. The person speaking can also give the interpretation. It all depends on as the "Spirit" wills and not man. The only limitation is that it should be by two or three at the most, and they should all go one at a time.

1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

The person speaking the tongue will not be the one interpreting the tongue.

There is too much danger for that to be practised. One can claim they are speaking in an ancient Atlantean language and he interprets it "amazingly" that would somehow benefit himself, and to doubt it is to doubt the Holy Spirit and thus sinning against the Holy Spirit and so every body must submit to that extortion or else. The person could know Spanish but claim he does not and extort a church by that route as well.

Let's see the scripture in safe guarding against that practise.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Why?

1 Corinthians 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

For those that speak in tongue to be able to interpret that tongue afterwards is going against how the Spirit will divide these gifts severally as He will, otherwise, one body can say I have no need of someone else to interpret my tongue.

Now see how it is to be practised in church. It can be missed if you read what you believe in the verses about tongues, but if you read the one about prophesy, then you know Paul meant that the one that interprets is someone else other than the ones that were speaking in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

To do so otherwise is to be disorderly in the church.

 

[TalkJesus]

Absolutely my point brother!

And in addition to that, women are not allowed to speak in tongues in church at all. Now do not write and yell at me!!!!!
I did not have anything to do with Paul writing his comments.
Now I now already every woman is going to jump on me. BUT before you do, read what God said first and then be ready to explain it as founf in 1 Corth. 14:34...........

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands AT HOME: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

The woman is not to make a public spectacle of her husband or seek his instruction publicly before many potential commentators but should ask him to expound the Word at home.

Actaully, the commandment for women to be silence in the church is because men are to lead in the assembly as a commandment from the Lord just as men are to lead at home as the spiritual leader submitting to Christ & His word in the home.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Reading the reference you used in detail; you will see that it had nothing to do about asking their husbands questions in church.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Tying the two together: Because Eve was deceived, a woman was not to lead. Eve was created after Adam was told not to eat the forbidden fruit. In that respect, the Word of God came from Adam to Eve and that was why she doubted, because she did not hear it straight from God Himself.

The curse is still in effect:

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Yes, even after having been saved because we are still in that corruptible flesh that men are to lead.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

And that is why it is a commandment from the Lord for wives not to speak or teach or preach in church.

Now how does that work when women claim they are speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Ghost as if the Word of God is coming to them first to be interpreted, thus breaking the commandment from the Lord? Would the real indwelling Holy Ghost cause women to break the commandment from the Lord? No.

So there is something is not right when women speak in tongues in the church even if it is in another language.

God has used women in the mission field, but we are talking about the assembly and His commandments. See what God says about that topic that is in relations to tongues which comes with no interpretation to avoid a future judgment at the pre tribulational rapture event.

Revelations 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Who respects the Lord to err on the side of caution and not have women speak in tongues, let alone speak in church?

 

[Heart_for_Christ]

Absolutely my point brother!

And in addition to that, women are not allowed to speak in tongues in church at all. Now do not write and yell at me!!!!!
I did not have anything to do with Paul writing his comments.
Now I now already every woman is going to jump on me. BUT before you do, read what God said first and then be ready to explain it as founf in 1 Corth. 14:34...........

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands AT HOME: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

The woman is not to make a public spectacle of her husband or seek his instruction publicly before many potential commentators but should ask him to expound the Word at home.

Wasn't it referring to a certain group of women who were deliberately disruptive?

And how do we reconcile that verse you quoted with 1 Corinthian 11?
Are they praying and prophesying privately or in the church?

 

[JustPassingThru]

God has warned the churches at Thyatira regardless of their works because they had some inqiuity that cannot be overlooked.

Judging is to be done when we are to correct one another in Christ's love and not condemn one another as if they were never saved as per example.

It is that experience of another infilling that I judged as not of Him and you need to reconsider that experience in light of scripture because there really is only one drink of the One Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ) and thus we are complete in Christ ( Colossians 2:5-10 ) as we are to guard against seducing spirits that would lead us to testify otherwise. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

God has been working in your life, but that second infilling was not of Him and had nothing to do with Him working in your life. That is the point of rebuke so that you may be sound in the faith.

TJ, you are funny and boy are you going to be surprised, and another thing, you need to do some more studying on the seven Churches, I'm not in the Church of Thyatira, a few here are, but not many, lots of people here in the Church of Sardis, I'm in the Church of Philadelphia along with some others and some here are even in the Church of the Laodiceans.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[TalkJesus]

TJ, you are funny and boy are you going to be surprised, and another thing, you need to do some more studying on the seven Churches, I'm not in the Church of Thyatira, a few here are, but not many, lots of people here in the Church of Sardis, I'm in the Church of Philadelphia along with some others and some here are even in the Church of the Laodiceans.

Blessings,

Gene

I was giving an example of how believers can be saved and have God working in their lives but still have offenses that the Lord wants them to repent of.

I was not assigning you as being of that church; nor am I saying you are not; either. FYI

By His grace & by His help, I prefer judging the works; not the believers.

 

[Major]

Wasn't it referring to a certain group of women who were deliberately disruptive?

And how do we reconcile that verse you quoted with 1 Corinthian 11?
Are they praying and prophesying privately or in the church?

I do not know. Honestly, I did not give Paul any advice on it! Certainly the service must be orderly and in control and in order.

Personally, since whole 14th chapter is about tongues, I believe Paul is saying that women are not to speak in tongues in church.

That would then take care of 11:5 where Paul made it clear that women were to teach and pray publicly.

 

[Major]

Actaully, the commandment for women to be silence in the church is because men are to lead in the assembly as a commandment from the Lord just as men are to lead at home as the spiritual leader submitting to Christ & His word in the home.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Reading the reference you used in detail; you will see that it had nothing to do about asking their husbands questions in church.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Tying the two together: Because Eve was deceived, a woman was not to lead. Eve was created after Adam was told not to eat the forbidden fruit. In that respect, the Word of God came from Adam to Eve and that was why she doubted, because she did not hear it straight from God Himself.

The curse is still in effect:

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Yes, even after having been saved because we are still in that corruptible flesh that men are to lead.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

And that is why it is a commandment from the Lord for wives not to speak or teach or preach in church.

Now how does that work when women claim they are speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Ghost as if the Word of God is coming to them first to be interpreted, thus breaking the commandment from the Lord? Would the real indwelling Holy Ghost cause women to break the commandment from the Lord? No.

So there is something is not right when women speak in tongues in the church even if it is in another language.

God has used women in the mission field, but we are talking about the assembly and His commandments. See what God says about that topic that is in relations to tongues which comes with no interpretation to avoid a future judgment at the pre tribulational rapture event.

Revelations 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Who respects the Lord to err on the side of caution and not have women speak in tongues, let alone speak in church?

Yes sir, I agree with you completely. It is very clear that Paul was telling women to "not speak in tongues in church" as the whole 14th chapter of 1 Corth. is contextually speaking about "tongues".

My whole point has been for years that if women were removed from the tongues movement there would be no tongues movement at all.

I love ya ladies, but that is what the Bible clearly says. So do not yell at me, wait to you get to heaven and yell at Paul.....he wrote it. I just read it, I didn't write it.