Tongues And Prophecy - Benefit For Whom?

[Major]

Well, we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, but that does not negate everything John Calvin has said for we prophesy in part & know in part.



When scripture reproves the notion that we can never receive Christ Jesus again for He is with us always as filled with the Spirit to never hunger nor thirst any more and thus complete in Christ, then when anyone testifying to receiving tongues with another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, we can easily dismiss all those tongues out of hand.



Did they pray in tongues when they laid hands on her? You left that part out, but even if one or a few of them did pray in tongues, they had no part in that healing, because it is not referred to as a necessity per instruction in scripture.

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.



Unfortunately, some of those deceivers can make these claims.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

One has to wonder, are their claims legitimate? Is that why so many were led astray for believing they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" and by a sign, thus inviting believers to seek after this "second blessing" and not after Christ?

The problem here is that you are not defending the faith in Christ Jesus by that example you had given. You used that to defend tongues that comes with no interpretation as if it can be used as a prayer language. That is akin to giving credit to tongues over Jesus Christ for the healing of your wife, and yet scripture in James testify that tongues has nothing to do with it. The effectual fervent prayers of a righteous man is what availeth much; there is no mention of the prayers of the Holy Spirit is what it is that availeth much, but if you use the errant Amplified Bible also, I can understand why you would think so.

Well said my brother. I agree!

 

[Major]

Did you not notice that even though the Father knows what we have need of before we ask, we still have to ask for it. We have not because we ask not. Since we do not know what it is we really need unless the Spirit God tells what to pray for. Someone has to pray, and Spirit of God does not to do it on his own. You are missing the fact that the father always knows what we have need of, but we don't unless we pray by help of the Spirit of God through us.

Good thought!

 

[Major]

I believe you are allowing the errant assumptions of the Amplified Bible to keep adding to His words when it is not saying that.

Sinners groan and sigh. Does that mean they are praying in tongues by the Holy Spirit? Of course not. Then do not apply that to Jesus or to the believers as if groaning and sighing means praying in the tongues.

Now let's examine the necessity for something to be uttered as supposedly enabled by the Holy Spirit for us to pray;

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

So how can the Father know before we ask anything in prayer? Because the Son of God that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit has made our intercessions and the intercessions of the Spirit's for us before we ask anything in prayer. This is why the intercessions of the Spirit's are unspeakable; that means when we fail to know what to pray for, the Holy Spirit does due to His role as our Comforter, but He does not "pray" because He is not the One uttering them, the Son of God is by knowing the mind of the Spirit as there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus as what Paul was referring to when writing "in according to the will of God" at the end of verse 27 in Romans 8.

Therefore, believers are reading Romans 8:26-27 wrong and errant modern Bibles are the cause. The KJV has it right, but even then, believers need His wisdom in understanding Paul's words because of the mentality of seeing their errant teachings and false assumptions because of those errant teaching into the reading of His words and the words of His disciples.

We can never force out thinking into what the Scriptures in fact say. I agree!

 

[TalkJesus]

Did you not notice that even though the Father knows what we have need of before we ask, we still have to ask for it. We have not because we ask not. Since we do not know what it is we really need unless the Spirit God tells what to pray for. Someone has to pray, and Spirit of God does not to do it on his own. You are missing the fact that the father always knows what we have need of, but we don't unless we pray by help of the Spirit of God through us.

You are implying that all believers need tongues for the Holy Spirit to help us pray, because sure as shooting, we do not always know what to pray for all the time.... and that is just false.

We are commanded to pray; but when we do not know what to pray for, the testimony that the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer, we can rest in Jesus Christ that the Father knows. So at any time, you are in a panic, and your thoughts are a jumble, believers can rest assured that the Father knows because Jesus Christ has been and is within you always in searching our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit within us for He liveth always makes intercessions for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The role of the Spirit of Christ restricts Him from saying anything on His own accord for He speaks what He hears. He will always convey the words of Christ to us as Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is leading us through the Holy Spirit in us.

That means the Spirit is not going to utter through us the words of Jesus praying back to the Son to the Father. When Paul testified that God's gift of tongues were of other men's lips to speak unto the people; he did not give an exception on how it was to be used in any other way.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

That was the finality, the clarification, and the bottomline about what God's gift of tongues were used for in the event believers were misreading his words in that chapter.

 

[CCW95A]

You are implying that all believers need tongues for the Holy Spirit to help us pray, because sure as shooting, we do not always know what to pray for all the time.... and that is just false.

We are commanded to pray; but when we do not know what to pray for, the testimony that the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer, we can rest in Jesus Christ that the Father knows. So at any time, you are in a panic, and your thoughts are a jumble, believers can rest assured that the Father knows because Jesus Christ has been and is within you always in searching our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit within us for He liveth always makes intercessions for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The role of the Spirit of Christ restricts Him from saying anything on His own accord for He speaks what He hears. He will always convey the words of Christ to us as Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is leading us through the Holy Spirit in us.

That means the Spirit is not going to utter through us the words of Jesus praying back to the Son to the Father. When Paul testified that God's gift of tongues were of other men's lips to speak unto the people; he did not give an exception on how it was to be used in any other way.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

That was the finality, the clarification, and the bottomline about what God's gift of tongues were used for in the event believers were misreading his words in that chapter.

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Paul telling the Church that he spoke in tongues more than all the Church's put together.
Thus telling us all those in the Church's of his time spoke in tongues.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Every single person (120) on the day of Pentecost spoke in tongues as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance. Maybe only the Apostles spoke in tongues and then after they died it was done away with.
Not a chance. This gift of the infilling of the Holy Spirit was also given to the gentiles at Cornelius's hose.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

A person speaking in an unknown tongue “edifies” himself. The word, “edify” means to build a house, to build himself up. If you do not speak in tongues how are you going to do this? Your not.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Praying in the Holy Ghost (tongues) builds up your faith. How are you going to build up your faith if you don't pray in the Holy Spirit? Your not. Notice: I did not say this, the Word of God did.

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Praying in tongues is not speaking to men, but God. This man is also speaking the mysteries of God.
Want to know the mysteries of God?

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

The Spirit of God never prays to God for us, he simply comes to our aid and helps us to pray by speaking in tongues to God. The Spirit of God does not groan, we do. “which cannot be uttered.” means not in you normal kind of language. My spirit prays by the Holy Spirit.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays, but my mind is unproductive [it bears no fruit and helps nobody]. (AMP)

The Holy Spirit is our comforter, counselor, helper, intercessor, advocate, strengthener, and standby.

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever-- (AMP)

Speaking in tongues was God's way for his Church to rest. It gives a refreshing to those who are in filled by the Holy Spirit. Yet even to this day people scoff at speaking in tongues and do not believe it is for the Church today. Even thought taught in scripture they still do not believe, neither will they hear.

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

The Apostle Paul wanted every one to speak in tongues, even though in the Church it would be better to prophesy so all could be edified. He still wanted all in the Church to speak in tongues.

1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

As Jesus ever lives to make intercession for us, he is not up in outer space somewhere praying for us.
Jesus lives in his Church, and he prays through us since we are his body. If we do not open our mouth and pray by the Holy Spirit, it is not going to be done. Have you forgotten we are Christ's and members in particular.

 

[JustPassingThru]

You are implying that all believers need tongues for the Holy Spirit to help us pray, because sure as shooting, we do not always know what to pray for all the time.... and that is just false.

We are commanded to pray; but when we do not know what to pray for, the testimony that the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer, we can rest in Jesus Christ that the Father knows. So at any time, you are in a panic, and your thoughts are a jumble, believers can rest assured that the Father knows because Jesus Christ has been and is within you always in searching our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit within us for He liveth always makes intercessions for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The role of the Spirit of Christ restricts Him from saying anything on His own accord for He speaks what He hears. He will always convey the words of Christ to us as Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is leading us through the Holy Spirit in us.

That means the Spirit is not going to utter through us the words of Jesus praying back to the Son to the Father. When Paul testified that God's gift of tongues were of other men's lips to speak unto the people; he did not give an exception on how it was to be used in any other way.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

That was the finality, the clarification, and the bottomline about what God's gift of tongues were used for in the event believers were misreading his words in that chapter.

To add testimony to this, ...there have been many times in my walk with the Lord that I have just cried out, FATHER or JESUS, being in danger and not having the time to think about what I should pray, or having been in a accident and just cried out because of the pain, or a witch or warlock came to curse me and when realizing the purpose of the stranger, ...having confidence in and knowing that Father knew what was going in in my heart and at that moment in my life, ...personally, I'm not one to make long prayers, I have long lists of people to pray for, but usually the reason of/for my prayers is a verse in the Word that I use to remind Father of what He has already said, ...so that His will will be done.

Again, personally, I don't understand why people would want to pray without understanding what they were praying for, I would always wonder if what was in my heart was what I had prayed for, ...and if it was in my heart, then why wouldn't English or French be sufficient for Father to understand?

Blessings,

Gene

 

[TalkJesus]

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Paul telling the Church that he spoke in tongues more than all the Church's put together.
Thus telling us all those in the Church's of his time spoke in tongues.

Wrong assumption. Your application is an example of reading your experience into the scripture when you should be testing the spirits and discerning the tongues that they bring.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The answer to Paul's questions is to be obviously a "no".

He would not be instructing believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and begin comparing the gift of prophesy over tongues as to why to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts including tongues unless not every one had tongues so that they would seek the gift of prophesy over the gift of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

In verse 5, Paul is stating a preference over which gift he would desire the church to seek after, and it wasn't tongues. That means not every one has the gift of tongues and so you are reading & applying verse 18 wrongly in that chapter.

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Paul was not saying the words of verse 18 as if testifying that every body in church spoke tongues. He was making a point that he would rather prophesy rather than speak in tongues in the church. Then he bottomlined what tongues were meant for as he hoped they would come to this understanding of what tongues were for; of other men's lips to speak for God to unto the people; which needless to say, the same tongue Paul had testified in verse 2 is the same tongue that needs interpretation thru out that chapter and thus was never meant to serve as a stand alone gift because it has to follow with interpretation. That was why he was downplaying tongues thru out that chpater so as to show why the gift of prophesy was the gift to seek after over all spiritual gift, especially over tongues, if any one was seeking a spiritual gift.

And Paul did tell us for what purpose the manifestations of these gifts were for; to profit the body withal.

1 Corinthians 12:1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant....4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

There is no exception given in calrifying that tongues does not need to be followed by interpretation to profit the body withal so that it can be used as a "prayer language" in a private manner.

And to cap it all off to debunking anyone from preaching another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues; Paul said there was only one drink of the One Spirit that we were all baptized under Christ Jesus by.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So may the Lord be peradventuring to recover any believer from this vanity of tongues that comes with no interpretation, especially when it is a tongue that is a result of preaching to receive the "Holy Spirit" "again" for it is not of Him. Our edification comes from understanidng His word and we are commanded to pray so that after knowing what we had prayed for, we can give the Father our genuine & heartfelt thanks in Jesus's name for answered prayers which is the will of God for us. So the snare of the devil should be obvious when it defies that will of God by cutting in our prayer time with nonsense.

2 Timothy 2: 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness....24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,.....12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

All references to 1 Corinthians 14th chapter that are misapplying verses as if tongues can be used for receiving edification, giving thanks, and praising God are overlooking the fact that Paul testified that this tongue is to come with interpretation to profit the body withal as well as himself; otherwise it would be unfruitful and thus receive no edification at all for any one.

 

[Abdicate]

To add testimony to this, ...there have been many times in my walk with the Lord that I have just cried out, FATHER or JESUS, being in danger and not having the time to think about what I should pray, or having been in a accident and just cried out because of the pain, or a witch or warlock came to curse me and when realizing the purpose of the stranger, ...having confidence in and knowing that Father knew what was going in in my heart and at that moment in my life, ...personally, I'm not one to make long prayers, I have long lists of people to pray for, but usually the reason of/for my prayers is a verse in the Word that I use to remind Father of what He has already said, ...so that His will will be done.

Again, personally, I don't understand why people would want to pray without understanding what they were praying for, I would always wonder if what was in my heart was what I had prayed for, ...and if it was in my heart, then why wouldn't English or French be sufficient for Father to understand?

Blessings,

Gene

If you go throughout the word of God you’ll find it's not the words but what the heart cries out for that matters. If it were words, then any old pray would do the trick. But that's not the case and why "1, 2, 3, pray after me – NEXT!" is so wrong and downright evil. It's putting faith in the prayer instead of the recipient of the prayer, Jesus. When you pour out your heart to God, sometimes there are just no words to express what the heart feels. That’s the reason for tongues. The mindless gibberish in public is not prayer but vanity. When you pray in the spirit with your heart it becomes a pure prayer, not one weighed down by the flesh and the foolishness of multiple words. Look at James’ account of Elijah’s prayers. The first prayer was “earnest” yet if you read the account, it was more like a statement – because it came from his heart. The next prayer is “and he prayed again” no “earnest” this time. When you go back and read what happened, he prayed seven times on his face, almost begging God. Why? Some part of him didn’t want to lift the curse of the drought, I guess. In other words, it didn’t come from the heart. It’s all about the heart, not the mind.

Jesus says that the hypocrites pray long empty prayers. You’re cry out to “Father or Jesus” came from the heart – 5000 times stronger than from the head. That’s when prayers are answered. If one prays for 20 mins to be healed yet in his heart doesn’t believe it’ll happen they’ll remain sick. I don’t find much faith in the church anymore. We spiritualize everything so we don’t have to acknowledge our weakness in faith. There is a cause and effect here. First things first:


Mat 6:33 [KJV] But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Most people just want to get close to God so they can get healed and go back to their form of righteousness, which is doomed to fail. That's what the difference in the three types of tongues is all about. I hope this helps.

 

[CCW95A]

Wrong assumption. Your application is an example of reading your experience into the scripture when you should be testing the spirits and discerning the tongues that they bring.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The answer to Paul's questions is to be obviously a "no".

He would not be instructing believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and begin comparing the gift of prophesy over tongues as to why to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts including tongues unless not every one had tongues so that they would seek the gift of prophesy over the gift of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

In verse 5, Paul is stating a preference over which gift he would desire the church to seek after, and it wasn't tongues. That means not every one has the gift of tongues and so you are reading & applying verse 18 wrongly in that chapter.

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Paul was not saying the words of verse 18 as if testifying that every body in church spoke tongues. He was making a point that he would rather prophesy rather than speak in tongues in the church. Then he bottomlined what tongues were meant for as he hoped they would come to this understanding of what tongues were for; of other men's lips to speak for God to unto the people; which needless to say, the same tongue Paul had testified in verse 2 is the same tongue that needs interpretation thru out that chapter and thus was never meant to serve as a stand alone gift because it has to follow with interpretation. That was why he was downplaying tongues thru out that chpater so as to show why the gift of prophesy was the gift to seek after over all spiritual gift, especially over tongues, if any one was seeking a spiritual gift.

And Paul did tell us for what purpose the manifestations of these gifts were for; to profit the body withal.

1 Corinthians 12:1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant....4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

There is no exception given in calrifying that tongues does not need to be followed by interpretation to profit the body withal so that it can be used as a "prayer language" in a private manner.

And to cap it all off to debunking anyone from preaching another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues; Paul said there was only one drink of the One Spirit that we were all baptized under Christ Jesus by.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So may the Lord be peradventuring to recover any believer from this vanity of tongues that comes with no interpretation, especially when it is a tongue that is a result of preaching to receive the "Holy Spirit" "again" for it is not of Him. Our edification comes from understanidng His word and we are commanded to pray so that after knowing what we had prayed for, we can give the Father our genuine & heartfelt thanks in Jesus's name for answered prayers which is the will of God for us. So the snare of the devil should be obvious when it defies that will of God by cutting in our prayer time with nonsense.

2 Timothy 2: 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness....24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,.....12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

All references to 1 Corinthians 14th chapter that are misapplying verses as if tongues can be used for receiving edification, giving thanks, and praising God are overlooking the fact that Paul testified that this tongue is to come with interpretation to profit the body withal as well as himself; otherwise it would be unfruitful and thus receive no edification at all for any one.

What you are failing to see is that there is a ministry of tongues, which not all partake in or do, and then there is the prayer language in which all are suppose to be doing. The initial evidence that one is filled with the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. There is a huge difference in being born of the Spirit and one being filled with the Spirit they are two difference things.
Jesus referred to salvation as a well of water "springing up to everlasting life. John 14:13-14
But then Jesus speaks about receiving the Holy Spirit which is not the same as receiving salvation. Jesus referred to receiving the Holy Spirit as a "River of living water" flowing out of a person. You do know there is a big difference between a stream and a river, right?
Acts 8:14-17 Peter, and John were sent down to Samaria for a specific purpose so that they who had already received the Word might receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

Got to go to work, I will finnish this later....

 

[TalkJesus]

If you go throughout the word of God you’ll find it's not the words but what the heart cries out for that matters. If it were words, then any old pray would do the trick. But that's not the case and why "1, 2, 3, pray after me – NEXT!" is so wrong and downright evil. It's putting faith in the prayer instead of the recipient of the prayer, Jesus. When you pour out your heart to God, sometimes there are just no words to express what the heart feels. That’s the reason for tongues. The mindless gibberish in public is not prayer but vanity. When you pray in the spirit with your heart it becomes a pure prayer, not one weighed down by the flesh and the foolishness of multiple words. Look at James’ account of Elijah’s prayers. The first prayer was “earnest” yet if you read the account, it was more like a statement – because it came from his heart. The next prayer is “and he prayed again” no “earnest” this time. When you go back and read what happened, he prayed seven times on his face, almost begging God. Why? Some part of him didn’t want to lift the curse of the drought, I guess. In other words, it didn’t come from the heart. It’s all about the heart, not the mind.

Jesus says that the hypocrites pray long empty prayers. You’re cry out to “Father or Jesus” came from the heart – 5000 times stronger than from the head. That’s when prayers are answered. If one prays for 20 mins to be healed yet in his heart doesn’t believe it’ll happen they’ll remain sick. I don’t find much faith in the church anymore. We spiritualize everything so we don’t have to acknowledge our weakness in faith. There is a cause and effect here. First things first:


Mat 6:33 [KJV] But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Most people just want to get close to God so they can get healed and go back to their form of righteousness, which is doomed to fail. That's what the difference in the three types of tongues is all about. I hope this helps.

Using metaphors regarding the heart that cries out in prayer that does not involve words still opposes your application since using God's gift of tongues as a "prayer language" would involve words of an unknown tongue.

Disecting earnest prayer from prayer to attribute one as meaning tongues as a prayer language is still an attempt to validify tongues that comes with no interpretation to be used as a prayer language.

Jesus prayed ernestly;

Luke 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

But words were used.

Matthew 26:36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

Something to reconsider and with His help, and may you be given discernment that tongues were never meant to be a form of prayer language.

 

[JustPassingThru]

What you are failing to see is that there is a ministry of tongues, which not all partake in or do, and then there is the prayer language in which all are suppose to be doing. The initial evidence that one is filled with the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. There is a huge difference in being born of the Spirit and one being filled with the Spirit they are two difference things.
Jesus referred to salvation as a well of water "springing up to everlasting life. John 14:13-14
But then Jesus speaks about receiving the Holy Spirit which is not the same as receiving salvation. Jesus referred to receiving the Holy Spirit as a "River of living water" flowing out of a person. You do know there is a big difference between a stream and a river, right?
Acts 8:14-17 Peter, and John were sent down to Samaria for a specific purpose so that they who had already received the Word might receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

Got to go to work, I will finnish this later....

Not wanting to start this debate again, but my wife has had the elders of the church lay hands on her to be filled, or rather, have the Holy Spirit's anointing on the gifts she has for the ministry He has given her and she doesn't speak in tongues, I know lots of people that are Spirit filled/have the anointing of the Holy Spirit for/to perform their ministry's of administration, mercy, helps, exhortation, teaching that don't speak in tongues, ...what are you inferring, that because they don't speak in tongues they are not Spirit filled for their ministry?

Blessings

Gene

 

[TezriLi]

Talked to my 3-1/2-year-older sister yesterday. We don't talk often -- usually email -- so this was huge to me to hear her voice and listen to what she has to say. We have been through a lot in life, although separated by many miles, including a lot of spiritual ups and downs. We two are the only ones sure of our place in the L-rd.

I was so excited, as she spoke, and I could hear her confidence in the L-rd. But there was something else I also heard: the H Spirit speaking through her in her advice and in other ways I am not prepared to write now.

One of the things we discussed, for the first time, was what I have brought up on this site: my experience with "tongues." She told me, "You got angry. That's your personality. If it had been me, that would have scared me -- that's my personality." Here is this woman who has never spoken in "tongues," yet the H Spirit was obvious in her. So obvious that last night, I sent her an email in order to mention this.

No tongues does not equal no H Spirit. And the Bible will back this up.

 

[TalkJesus]

Not wanting to start this debate again, but my wife has had the elders of the church lay hands on her to be filled, or rather, have the Holy Spirit's anointing on the gifts she has for the ministry He has given her and she doesn't speak in tongues, I know lots of people that are Spirit filled/have the anointing of the Holy Spirit for/to perform their ministry's of administration, mercy, helps, exhortation, teaching that don't speak in tongues, ...what are you inferring, that because they don't speak in tongues they are not Spirit filled for their ministry?

Blessings

Gene

Just to be clear as to where I stand in regards to my faith in Jesus Christ, when a person comes to & believe in Jesus Christ, they are filled to such a point as Jesus promised; that they would hunger and thirst no more to be filled ( John 6:35 ) and thus they are complete in Christ, after having received Him. Colossians 2:5-10 Our always being filled with the Spirit is a testimony that we are a new creature in Christ Jesus as born again and thus sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise like new wineskin able to hold the new wine for ever so we can testify that Jesus Christ is our Saviour because we are saved. Matthew 9:17

Saved believers that seek another filling to be able ministers should not preach to that ( 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 ) because there is no more filling with the Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ) and no other hope of our calling to be filled. Ephesians 4:4-6

2 Corinthians 3:1Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

No minister need an extra commendation or an extra filling of the Spirit to be an able minster of how he or she was saved.

So I agree with you that one that does not speak in tongues, that does not mean they are not Spirit-filled, BUT just as we do not need tongues to validate that we are Spirit-filled, saved believers do not need a second filling to validate them to be an able minister of Jesus Christ of Whom we believe.

Elders can anoint a saved believer will oil, but that is all they are anointing with because saved believers already have Him as promised by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[TalkJesus]

Talked to my 3-1/2-year-older sister yesterday. We don't talk often -- usually email -- so this was huge to me to hear her voice and listen to what she has to say. We have been through a lot in life, although separated by many miles, including a lot of spiritual ups and downs. We two are the only ones sure of our place in the L-rd.

I was so excited, as she spoke, and I could hear her confidence in the L-rd. But there was something else I also heard: the H Spirit speaking through her in her advice and in other ways I am not prepared to write now.

One of the things we discussed, for the first time, was what I have brought up on this site: my experience with "tongues." She told me, "You got angry. That's your personality. If it had been me, that would have scared me -- that's my personality." Here is this woman who has never spoken in "tongues," yet the H Spirit was obvious in her. So obvious that last night, I sent her an email in order to mention this.

No tongues does not equal no H Spirit. And the Bible will back this up.

I agree that just because a person does not speak in tongues, it does not mean they have no Holy Spirit, but believers have been warned to not believe every spirit but test them, meaning saved believers can be deceived if they just believe every spirit that comes over them is of God.

The fact that in according to our faith, Jesus Christ dwells in us by faith, then any believer experiencing what they think is the Holy Spirit coming over them "again" when they began speaking in tongues; should know that is proof that was not the Holy Spirit when He was already within you when you had first come to & believed in Jesus Christ. 1 John 4:1 & 1 John 4:4

This is how seducing spirits work; to introduce themselves, change the testimony as to when the believer was saved, and to mislead others into seeking after them to receive after a sign of tongues for assurance that they are saved.

Hebrews 11:1 Hebrews 11:6 Galatians 3:14 Galatians 3:26

The real indwelling Holy Spirit will always keep that spotlight & our eyes on the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

 

[TezriLi]

Well, TalkJesus, I have to admit that I could not understand your post above. Maybe I am just too tired. I also take everything very literally.

 

[Abdicate]

Using metaphors regarding the heart that cries out in prayer that does not involve words still opposes your application since using God's gift of tongues as a "prayer language" would involve words of an unknown tongue.

Disecting earnest prayer from prayer to attribute one as meaning tongues as a prayer language is still an attempt to validify tongues that comes with no interpretation to be used as a prayer language.

Jesus prayed ernestly;

Luke 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

But words were used.

Matthew 26:36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

Something to reconsider and with His help, and may you be given discernment that tongues were never meant to be a form of prayer language.

Welp... those that have do, and those that don't don't.

 

[CCW95A]

Scriptural proof of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Out of the mouth of two or witness let every Word be established. Matt 18:16

(1) Witness

Act 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)


Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

120 men and women were all baptist in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

(2)Witness

The entire house hold of Cornelius, A gentile.


Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

(3) witness

The Ephesian Disciples
This account happened years after the day of Pentecost while Paul was ministering to the diciples in Ephesus.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

(4) Witness

Samaritan Believers. Though it does not say directly they spoke in tongues, yet Simon who witness the whole event wanted to give money so he could do the same. He had to have heard them speak in tongues as the Holy is invisible, and that would have been the only way he could known they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

(5) Witness

Ananias being sent to Paul by Jesus that he might be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

It does not say Paul spoke in tongues by we know he did because Paul said this of himself....

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

 

[CCW95A]

Not wanting to start this debate again, but my wife has had the elders of the church lay hands on her to be filled, or rather, have the Holy Spirit's anointing on the gifts she has for the ministry He has given her and she doesn't speak in tongues, I know lots of people that are Spirit filled/have the anointing of the Holy Spirit for/to perform their ministry's of administration, mercy, helps, exhortation, teaching that don't speak in tongues, ...what are you inferring, that because they don't speak in tongues they are not Spirit filled for their ministry?

Blessings

Gene

I can not give you my opinion, because opinions are a dime a dozen. All we can do is search the scriptures and let them tell us what truth is.
Experiences mean nothing without scriptural support.
I don't speak in tongues because I want to, but because I find it in the Word of God and believe it for myself.

 

[TalkJesus]

Well, TalkJesus, I have to admit that I could not understand your post above. Maybe I am just too tired. I also take everything very literally.

Because there are familiar spirits in the world that brings supernatural tongues of babbling nonsense, meaning it comes with no interpretation, Isaiah 8:19 and this was present before God's gift of tongues which was of other men's lips to speak unto the people had come at Pentecost.... believers should not believe every spirit but test them and the tongues they bring.

Because we are to prove all things and abstain from all apearances of evil, therefore God is not going to copycat the devil's tongue which is why God's gift of tongues IS ONLY of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

Otherwise, using tongues as a prayer language because it comes with no interpretation is hardly abstaining from all appearances of evil.

Problems will arise when those coming out of the occult that had those kinds of tongues, it will be hard to discern if they had truly repented or not. And then if they try to witness to their former friends in the occult, they will not be convinced that he has changed at all.

That's me saying God will never use the gift of tongue as a prayer language if He wishes to call sinners out of the world and away from their familiar spirits to His Son in relating to God the Father by which is why all invitations points to the Son and none to the Holy Spirit.... even afterwards so as to avoid the spirit of the antichrist that would come inbetween us & the Son like a thief.

 

[TalkJesus]

Welp... those that have do, and those that don't don't.

Hardly comforting to those that don't for the next time when they don't know what to pray for, thus alluding to a necessity to seek tongues as a prayer language... and yet nowhere in scripture did Paul or anyone said to seek tongues for that purpose.