Total Inability

Sep 16, 2011
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This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them
Been doing some research and it seems many get confused here. No surprise as it literally reads as 'God enables us to come to Him'. But we need to use more discernment here. We have to grasp that this ''enabling'' us to come to Jesus...is Him enabling us to see Jesus as God. Holy Spirit plants the seed of Jesus in a willing heart. Inline with 1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

God / Father in heaven (Matt 16:17) enables us to go from Matt 16:14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” To Matt 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
 
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Jun 7, 2012
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Been doing some research and it seems many get confused here. No surprise as it literally reads as 'God enables us to come to Him'. But we need to use more discernment here. We have to grasp that this ''enabling'' us to come to Jesus...is Him enabling us to see Jesus as God. Holy Spirit plants the seed of Jesus in a willing heart. Inline with 1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

God / Father in heaven (Matt 16:17) enables us to go from Matt 16:14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” To Matt 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
But is there such a thing as "a willing heart" in which to plant a seed? "The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9).
 
Sep 16, 2011
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Regardless, I expicitly trust that whatever God does--whether I understand it or not--is his will and is always good and holy!
Amen! We agree on that :).
But is there such a thing as "a willing heart" in which to plant a seed? "The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9).
Yes there is, after a while of toiling it...as scripture says 'He searches our hearts'...if He finds a glimmer of hope...He works with that. God does not abuse us. He is a gentleman, impartial and good.

Are you for or against organized marriage? If I was your king, would you serve me and judge me as good if I married your daughter 100% against her will? When you got saved, did you say ''Its about time, I knew I was special'' or ''Jesus, I accept you, I submit to you''?
 
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As I've mentioned several times before, God never forces anyone to do anything. The fact that you keep repeating that canard demonstrates beyond all doubt that you don't understand what Calvinism is. I respect the fact that you don't agree with it and that doesn't detract from your salvation or your testimony at all. (A lot of excellent Christians don't; I didn't believe it either for years.) But you don't know what it is. If you did, you wouldn't continue using illustrations that God forces salvation upon people.
 
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I grasp Calvinism just fine Jack. You are dodging. Forcing was one question.

But lets consider forcing. Calvinism = all en route to hell and God chose some to regenerate and come to Him = they have no choice but to come to Him..... should they resist....what then? do they go back to being en-route to hell? Can they resist? No...doesn't sound like forcing to me at all :rolleyes::rolleyes: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:.

If you can resist = no forcing, If you can't resist = forcing. Can a Calvinist resist God and go to hell?
 
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Long before the New Testament era, God wrote in the prophecy of Micah that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem of Judea. In order to make that happen, Augustus issued a decree that all the Roman world had to be counted and taxed. Was he forced to issue that decree? No! Was that decree in the plan and program of God? Certainly. Could Augustus had done anything else? No. If he had, the entire prophecy would have failed and God's Word can never fail.

You asked, "Can a Calvinist resist God and go to hell?" All unsaved people resist God and are already hell bound regardless of what their religious label is. They can not understand the gospel (Jn. 8:43, 47); they can not see the gospel (2 Cor. 4:3-4); they lack the ability to come to Christ (Jn. 6:44); they will not believe in Him (Jn. 5:40); and they are a spiritual corpse unresponsive to the wooing of God's Word (Eph. 2:1). (I really don't understand how you can say that a corpse can walk out of a jail cell on his own, but that's another issue). Unless the Holy Spirit does his word of spiritual regeneration (Titus 3:5), that person will continue to resist God and remain lost in his or her sin. The "natural" man can not receive the things of the Spirit of God (I Cor. 2:14). If he can't receive those things, how can a "natural" person be saved? He can't unless God changes him into something other than a "natural" person.

No, my friend, I really believe and see that you don't understand Calvinism at all. If you did, you wouldn't suggest that it teaches that man is somehow forced to do anything. We both agree that man only comes to Christ when he is willing to come to Christ. The difference between us is: how does man become willing? You would say--and I hope I'm not misrepresenting you--that all people have the ability to be willing. I would say that natural man is incapable of receiving the things of the Spirit based on I Cor. 2:14. That he can not understand the Word of God based on Jn. 8:43, 47. That he does not have the capability to come to Christ based on the Lord's own words in Jn. 6:44. Therefore, salvation is the work of God in regenerating the sinner and changing him into something different.
 
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Sep 16, 2011
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Jack, if you had no say in your future before you got saved and have no say in your future after you are saved...that makes you a slave / puppet of God. Since a place like hell exists, that is simply not a good God that I would serve. I am done discussing this now. We just repeating ourselves. Thanks for the chat.
 
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Even though I have stated at least four times (maybe more) that there is no "forcing" of salvation on anyone? You and I both believe that whosoever will may come. From that you draw the conclusion that somehow that that makes me a puppet and I have no say in my future? Well, one thing is crystal clear, to draw such an erroneous conclusion you really have no idea what Bible based Calvinism teaches, and, apparently, no desire to find out. I recognize and respect the fact that you don't believe it and that's fine, no one says you have to. But you're leaving in a huff with the same distorted idea of what it is when we first started talking. But, you are right about one thing, we are just repeating ourselves and I've also appreciated the exchange very much so.