Trials and Troubles more precious than gold

[KingJ]

Character definition: Jesus Christ did only the Father's will and paid a price greater than we can imagine.
Character deficient: Lucifer fell because he was not able to stand in his given status.

As a free moral agent if character was a gift it would preclude direction and it wouldn't be character at all.
Understanding that character is not a gift but must be developed in this time loop and that character is only developed through the process of being tested to the point of personal failure so that we might not be self sufficient but lean on Him.
If character is the only attribute that we take with us from this temporary realm to the eternal does it not imply that it is not a vain quality but one which may predetermine our placement on the other side?
Does not this make trials and troubles more precious than gold in that it is preparing us for that which the eye has not seen nor the mind conceived.
Question: Did Adam and Eve possess character?

I agree 100% with you! I just wouldn't say its God building character, rather God building a closer relationship.

If my wife saw me reject a girl pursuing me at work, how much greater and richer our love for each other will be.

For all of eternity Peter will be known as a martyr who did X and Y. For all eternity you will be known as a faithful Christian who did X and Y. God wants to give us eternal nuggets of gold that are personal between Him and us. The only way to do that is with trials and tribulations. Agreed!

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Are you saying things happen outside of His purpose / will? If so, like what? God is not omniscient and omnipotent?

Everything that happened, is happening and will happen is according to His purpose. Free will to hate Him, random events, not listening to sinners prayers and all things that appear to be outside His purpose / control are simply evidence of a greater purpose.

Why yes Brother KJ I am for the 10 year old girl who now has a child because she got raped was NOT Gods purpose or will and please do not use that old religious phrase, well we dont know why but God just allowed it...

There is alot of evil in this world and to say God is in control of everything would mean He does the evil or if He is in control of everything then why pray for sinners to be sdaved, I mean God is in control of everything so if God wants him saved he will be saved.

Some things are not Gods choice nor does He have anything to do with. Trials come from the fact we live in a sinful world. Greater Purpose ? Killing babies in tornados is for a greater purpose ?

Yes God is sovereign BUT He sovereignly decided to put some things in the hands of man or in mans control. This is why we must ask, seek and knock.
Unless we ask Him to be a part of something He is not. What I mean is I can decide I want to sell cars so I go buy cars and sell them but 3 other guys are selling junk cars for more money and selling all of them and I am not selling any. I pray and ask God and He says because I was not in it. I did not tell you to nor did you ask me about it.

Now then if I had prayed and asked Him to be a part of it and it fit into His plan for me then yea it would have been blessed and prosperous. Just making a quick example.

People blame God for things He has nothing to do with.
Blessings
Jim

 

[KingJ]

Why yes Brother KJ I am for the 10 year old girl who now has a child because she got raped was NOT Gods purpose or will and please do not use that old religious phrase, well we dont know why but God just allowed it...

There is alot of evil in this world and to say God is in control of everything would mean He does the evil or if He is in control of everything then why pray for sinners to be sdaved, I mean God is in control of everything so if God wants him saved he will be saved.

Some things are not Gods choice nor does He have anything to do with. Trials come from the fact we live in a sinful world. Greater Purpose ? Killing babies in tornados is for a greater purpose ?

Yes God is sovereign BUT He sovereignly decided to put some things in the hands of man or in mans control. This is why we must ask, seek and knock.

Unless we ask Him to be a part of something He is not. What I mean is I can decide I want to sell cars so I go buy cars and sell them but 3 other guys are selling junk cars for more money and selling all of them and I am not selling any. I pray and ask God and He says because I was not in it. I did not tell you to nor did you ask me about it.

Now then if I had prayed and asked Him to be a part of it and it fit into His plan for me then yea it would have been blessed and prosperous. Just making a quick example.

People blame God for things He has nothing to do with.

I do not completely disagree with you Jim. Grasping how God is good whilst He is omniscient and omnipotent is beyond us.

This discussion does come down to where we draw the lines I believe. God is omniscient. God is omnipotent and God is good. You apply ''God is good'' much earlier / further then I do. I see no evil in quick deaths, torture if God is with us, sickness and poverty. God allowing evil is not necessarily God being evil.

You are wrong to mock the saying ''well we don't know, God just allowed it''. We are not God. To God we are less the an ant in brain capacity. We don't always know.

I also dispute your line ''He put things in our control''. I would say the only thing in our control is our fate.

People blame God for things He has nothing to do with

God did not put the devil with Adam and Eve? People blame God for evil because they do not grasp the cross and God's greater purpose.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I do not completely disagree with you Jim. Grasping how God is good whilst He is omniscient and omnipotent is beyond us.

This discussion does come down to where we draw the lines I believe. God is omniscient. God is omnipotent and God is good. You apply ''God is good'' much earlier / further then I do. I see no evil in quick deaths, torture if God is with us, sickness and poverty. God allowing evil is not necessarily God being evil.

You are wrong to mock the saying ''well we don't know, God just allowed it''. We are not God. To God we are less the an ant in brain capacity. We don't always know.

I also dispute your line ''He put things in our control''. I would say the only thing in our control is our fate.

God did not put the devil with Adam and Eve? People blame God for evil because they do not grasp the cross and God's greater purpose.

Hello my Brother KJ,
Thank you for the respect and replying and for allowing me to get a little deeper understanding of where you are coming from. This is only one of the things I enjoy and look forward to hashing through things with you. You are one heck of a man and a very fine brother and friend as well.

Now with that said we know what time it is now ! ; ) lol yep now it is my turn to write my take on things. Don't you just Love the word of God ? I know I do and I would be nothing with out it. That is why I find this to be so very true.

Gods words are Spirit and Life to those who Find Them. So for those who have ears let them hear.

Lets first look in Deuteronomy 30:10-20 KJV
10.....is telling us if we will keep His commandments and walk in His ways and turn to or trust in the Lord thy God with all of your heart and soul.
11-13...is stating that this commandment which He is giving us this day is NOT hidden from thee, nor do you have to go up to heaven to bring it down to hear it nor is it beyond the sea that you have to go get it.

Now 14 is where it gets GOOD !! ; )
14.....But thy word is very NIGH unto thee, In Thy Mouth, and in Thy Heart that thou mayest do it.
His word has been placed all around you. Media and books and churches and Bibles so there is no excuse not to know it.
This is telling us especially for today that His word needs to be in our minds, our hearts and mouth. Why mouth ? Because speaking Gods words bring God results...He is moved by His word and when He is moved by His word He see's to it that it is carried out. BUT it must be DONE IN FAITH !!

Here we go now
15.....SEE I HAVE SET BEFORE THEE THIS DAY LIFE AND GOOD AND DEATH AND EVIL.
16.....In that I COMMAND thee THIS DAY to LOVE the Lord thy God, TO WALK in His Ways, and to KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS and His STATUTES and His JUDGMENTS that THOU MAYEST LIVE And Multiply and thee Lord thy God Shall BLESS Thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

So in these two verses we see several key things.
1...God gives US the CHOICE TO CHOOSE Life and Blessing or Death and Cursing or evil. We choose....Not God BUT we choose...
2...Now in verse 16 we see that GOD is telling us Pick His Way. He says IF YOU CHOOSE TO WALK MY WAY FOLLOW MY COMMAND.....this good life will be yours....
3...So in this Good Life we find several things....First we must make the choice to choose this life....Second which is just as important.....We MUST Choose To Walk This Life His Way Every Single Day Of Our Life in Order to stay in The Good Life of Blessing and protection and every other good thing that is included in Thee Blessing Of Thee Lord.

People tend to claim this is not for us today but here is the deal. They are wrong for this curse was put into effect the day adam fell and the fact is you either choose His ways or your ways. His ways take you to being Born Again and redeemed from the curse of the law and don't let the word law throw you off course here. It is one in the same.

17...Now here is the flip side...the disobedient side....the side where you do not follow His commands such as walking in Love and Forgiveness and Living by Faith 24-7-365. You Step out side of His blessing. Remember verse 14 told us His Word is in Our Mouth and Heart so this says SPEAKING His word By and In and Through FAITH is also a commandment......or REQUIREMENT .

17......But if thine heart turn away, so that thou will NOT Hear, but be drawn away and worship other gods and serve them.
......Now remember a few things here. Heart turn away.....resist doing His word. Not allowing His word to take root. Not hearing.....again not giving His word a second thought so as to give it time to root in your heart. Be drawn away and to worship other gods.....This is as simple as walking in the flesh.....doing things your way or the way of the world. Giving something else leadership in your actions or believe over God.

18 tells us if we do not choose His way then.........I denounce unto you this day that thee shall surely perish, (( SEE THIS PLEASE )) AND that ye shall NOT PROLONG YOUR DAYS UPON the land, wither thou passest over Jorden to go to posses it.
Seems we can shorten or lengthen our lives here on this earth.... When you violate how God said to walk, live, think, speak, act and feed the body, or soul or spirit man you can shorten your life. We can Live the 120 years allotted to man found in Gen, 6:3 BUT you have got to be walking in the Blessing of the Lord which means, living, talking, believing acting on Gods word 24-7-365.

19 tells us simply this WE ARE WITH OUT EXCUSE.......
I call Heaven and earth to record this day AGAINST YOU, That I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU, LIFE AND DEATH, BLESSING AND CURSING; THEREFORE Choose Life , that both thou and thy seed may live.......
.....again God not only has left this choice up to us....He called Heaven and earth to record this day.....so we have no excuse......God even goes a step further......if for some reason you are still not sure which is better...Blessing or cursing....He tells us MAN....CHOOSE LIFE.....CHOOSE BLESSING....

20.. tells us please pick life and blessing so we can have this.....
That thou mayest Love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey His voice , and that thou mayest cleave unto Him; For He Is Thy Life, and the length of thy days; that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Also Psalm 115:16 KJV
The Heaven, even the Heavens, are the LORDS, BUT the earth hath He given to the children of men.
In Heaven God is in Total Control. That is why there is No Crime, Poverty, Sickness, or any other evil thing.
Now here on earth there is evil ruining rampant.........Remember God has Given Man The Choice.......Choose His way and Blessing and Life will follow OR do it your own way with out God and you will have cursing and death.

God decided to give man free will so when God decided to do this, well it became a good thing so man has Free Will. Man makes their own choice to follow God or Not to.....Now man is not sovereign unto himself. What does this mean ? It means man needs a spiritual overlord. What does that mean ?
It means that there is NO such thing as the devils thoughts and Gods thoughts and there are MY thoughts.. No this is simply not the way it works.

Man is getting his thoughts or influenced either by Godly thinking through a renewed mind and heart and the Holy spirit and so forth OR man is getting his thoughts influenced by the devil and when this is true the devil will lead you down the road of destruction, one thought at a time. When a Christian is not functioning with in the word of God he is carnal minded and a man who is not born again is simply a natural man. A carnal minded man can not truly operate in Faith. This limits his results and is NOT the fault of God.

Now Then Brother KJ I want to show you why I said all of this.
The Curse in this HAS ALREADY BEEN PUT INTO EFFECT INTO THIS WORLD THROUGH ADAMS FALL.

Poverty, sickness and disease and every other kind of evil and greed and so forth. These things are alive and active in this world. Our enemy the devil will do his best to get these things into a Believers life and he can ONLY do so if we give him permission or right of way. Any time we step out side of the Blessing of the Lord we have given satan this right of way.

Fear, doubt and unbelief are the ones most Believers over look as nothing to be concerned about. Disobedience puts you over in an area where satan has right of way and this can be things such as UN-Forgiveness or not walking in Love or sins one hides and so forth.

See God has set His way into being. Nothing any one can do to change this. It does not matter if you believe this or not for it still is working in every single persons life. If a born again Christian begins to walk in disobedience then they step out side of His protection..........NOTICE I did NOT say God gives them up for He still loves them and will do all sorts of things trying to get you back over here where He can take care of you, any way then decides to get stoned drunk and drive a stolen car at 145 MPH and loses control and demolishes the car and kills himself and 5 children crossing the street it is NOT Gods fault nor Did God issue this nor did God simply allow it.

The believer made some bad choices and these bad choices ended in bad results. Now if this same persons would have said, NO I am not going to drink and I am going to seek God in this then all of them including the children would be alive.

Rapes and murder and all this evil running amuck in this world is because the curse, AND the CURSE is the cause of these things.

You said about the only thing man is in control of is his fate. KJ not according to what you claim in your reply for if God is in control or wills or allow or whatever then man could not be in control of his fate.

One last thing.....You said (( God is omniscient. God is omnipotent ))
Ok but God also decided to do things in a certain way- His way and it has been this way for all time. God is bound to His own words. This is not limiting God or making man more then He is. God simply swore an oath on His name. He can NOT lie so when He sets something into effect then that is just the way it is and will be.

So now then my Brother KJ it be your turn to reply !! I am looking forward to your reply and pray you enjoy writing it as well. Thanks again KJ for respecting enough to reply honestly. I do so admire this about you.
God Bless KJ
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Did you mean to say something this quote ? It seems to be blank. ( ? )

 

[KingJ]

Lets first look in Deuteronomy 30:10-20 KJV
10.....is telling us if we will keep His commandments and walk in His ways and turn to or trust in the Lord thy God with all of your heart and soul.
11-13...is stating that this commandment which He is giving us this day is NOT hidden from thee, nor do you have to go up to heaven to bring it down to hear it nor is it beyond the sea that you have to go get it.

Now 14 is where it gets GOOD !! ; )
14.....But thy word is very NIGH unto thee, In Thy Mouth, and in Thy Heart that thou mayest do it.
His word has been placed all around you. Media and books and churches and Bibles so there is no excuse not to know it.
This is telling us especially for today that His word needs to be in our minds, our hearts and mouth. Why mouth ? Because speaking Gods words bring God results...He is moved by His word and when He is moved by His word He see's to it that it is carried out. BUT it must be DONE IN FAITH !!

Here we go now
15.....SEE I HAVE SET BEFORE THEE THIS DAY LIFE AND GOOD AND DEATH AND EVIL.
16.....In that I COMMAND thee THIS DAY to LOVE the Lord thy God, TO WALK in His Ways, and to KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS and His STATUTES and His JUDGMENTS that THOU MAYEST LIVE And Multiply and thee Lord thy God Shall BLESS Thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

So in these two verses we see several key things.
1...God gives US the CHOICE TO CHOOSE Life and Blessing or Death and Cursing or evil. We choose....Not God BUT we choose...
2...Now in verse 16 we see that GOD is telling us Pick His Way. He says IF YOU CHOOSE TO WALK MY WAY FOLLOW MY COMMAND.....this good life will be yours....
3...So in this Good Life we find several things....First we must make the choice to choose this life....Second which is just as important.....We MUST Choose To Walk This Life His Way Every Single Day Of Our Life in Order to stay in The Good Life of Blessing and protection and every other good thing that is included in Thee Blessing Of Thee Lord.

People tend to claim this is not for us today but here is the deal. They are wrong for this curse was put into effect the day adam fell and the fact is you either choose His ways or your ways. His ways take you to being Born Again and redeemed from the curse of the law and don't let the word law throw you off course here. It is one in the same.

17...Now here is the flip side...the disobedient side....the side where you do not follow His commands such as walking in Love and Forgiveness and Living by Faith 24-7-365. You Step out side of His blessing. Remember verse 14 told us His Word is in Our Mouth and Heart so this says SPEAKING His word By and In and Through FAITH is also a commandment......or REQUIREMENT .

17......But if thine heart turn away, so that thou will NOT Hear, but be drawn away and worship other gods and serve them.
......Now remember a few things here. Heart turn away.....resist doing His word. Not allowing His word to take root. Not hearing.....again not giving His word a second thought so as to give it time to root in your heart. Be drawn away and to worship other gods.....This is as simple as walking in the flesh.....doing things your way or the way of the world. Giving something else leadership in your actions or believe over God.

18 tells us if we do not choose His way then.........I denounce unto you this day that thee shall surely perish, (( SEE THIS PLEASE )) AND that ye shall NOT PROLONG YOUR DAYS UPON the land, wither thou passest over Jorden to go to posses it.
Seems we can shorten or lengthen our lives here on this earth.... When you violate how God said to walk, live, think, speak, act and feed the body, or soul or spirit man you can shorten your life. We can Live the 120 years allotted to man found in Gen, 6:3 BUT you have got to be walking in the Blessing of the Lord which means, living, talking, believing acting on Gods word 24-7-365.

19 tells us simply this WE ARE WITH OUT EXCUSE.......
I call Heaven and earth to record this day AGAINST YOU, That I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU, LIFE AND DEATH, BLESSING AND CURSING; THEREFORE Choose Life , that both thou and thy seed may live.......
.....again God not only has left this choice up to us....He called Heaven and earth to record this day.....so we have no excuse......God even goes a step further......if for some reason you are still not sure which is better...Blessing or cursing....He tells us MAN....CHOOSE LIFE.....CHOOSE BLESSING....

20.. tells us please pick life and blessing so we can have this.....
That thou mayest Love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey His voice , and that thou mayest cleave unto Him; For He Is Thy Life, and the length of thy days; that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Also Psalm 115:16 KJV
The Heaven, even the Heavens, are the LORDS, BUT the earth hath He given to the children of men.
In Heaven God is in Total Control. That is why there is No Crime, Poverty, Sickness, or any other evil thing.
Now here on earth there is evil ruining rampant.........Remember God has Given Man The Choice.......Choose His way and Blessing and Life will follow OR do it your own way with out God and you will have cursing and death.

God decided to give man free will so when God decided to do this, well it became a good thing so man has Free Will. Man makes their own choice to follow God or Not to.....Now man is not sovereign unto himself. What does this mean ? It means man needs a spiritual overlord. What does that mean ?
It means that there is NO such thing as the devils thoughts and Gods thoughts and there are MY thoughts.. No this is simply not the way it works.

Man is getting his thoughts or influenced either by Godly thinking through a renewed mind and heart and the Holy spirit and so forth OR man is getting his thoughts influenced by the devil and when this is true the devil will lead you down the road of destruction, one thought at a time. When a Christian is not functioning with in the word of God he is carnal minded and a man who is not born again is simply a natural man. A carnal minded man can not truly operate in Faith. This limits his results and is NOT the fault of God.

Now Then Brother KJ I want to show you why I said all of this.
The Curse in this HAS ALREADY BEEN PUT INTO EFFECT INTO THIS WORLD THROUGH ADAMS FALL.

Poverty, sickness and disease and every other kind of evil and greed and so forth. These things are alive and active in this world. Our enemy the devil will do his best to get these things into a Believers life and he can ONLY do so if we give him permission or right of way. Any time we step out side of the Blessing of the Lord we have given satan this right of way.

Fear, doubt and unbelief are the ones most Believers over look as nothing to be concerned about. Disobedience puts you over in an area where satan has right of way and this can be things such as UN-Forgiveness or not walking in Love or sins one hides and so forth.

See God has set His way into being. Nothing any one can do to change this. It does not matter if you believe this or not for it still is working in every single persons life. If a born again Christian begins to walk in disobedience then they step out side of His protection..........NOTICE I did NOT say God gives them up for He still loves them and will do all sorts of things trying to get you back over here where He can take care of you, any way then decides to get stoned drunk and drive a stolen car at 145 MPH and loses control and demolishes the car and kills himself and 5 children crossing the street it is NOT Gods fault nor Did God issue this nor did God simply allow it.

The believer made some bad choices and these bad choices ended in bad results. Now if this same persons would have said, NO I am not going to drink and I am going to seek God in this then all of them including the children would be alive.

Rapes and murder and all this evil running amuck in this world is because the curse, AND the CURSE is the cause of these things.

You said about the only thing man is in control of is his fate. KJ not according to what you claim in your reply for if God is in control or wills or allow or whatever then man could not be in control of his fate.

One last thing.....You said (( God is omniscient. God is omnipotent ))
Ok but God also decided to do things in a certain way- His way and it has been this way for all time. God is bound to His own words. This is not limiting God or making man more then He is. God simply swore an oath on His name. He can NOT lie so when He sets something into effect then that is just the way it is and will be.

So now then my Brother KJ it be your turn to reply !! I am looking forward to your reply and pray you enjoy writing it as well. Thanks again KJ for respecting enough to reply honestly. I do so admire this about you.
God Bless KJ
Jim

Hi Jim

I was replying line by line but found myself repeating myself. I see four issues to discuss that you and I do not seem to see eye to eye on.

1. What and who a Christian is
2. Faith
3. Respecting God
4. Facing reality

1. A Christian is a child of God. God is our Father. You are constantly proposing we act and carry ourselves like we are not children of God. Hold God to this, hold God to that. If I don't have faith for this, that will not happen. If I don't walk in love this will not happen. If I doubt...If I don't know God's promises. Do you want your children to treat you like this? Do you treat your children like this?

2. When we were unsaved we had no faith. Lets say we lived on the moon with no gravity. Now that we are saved, we live on earth with gravity. Do we need faith in gravity if we now live on earth? We can say we have faith in gravity, but anyone proposing we need to build up our faith in gravity just does not get it. They are speaking like they are still on the moon. We already believe God created the universe. We already believe God exists. Now we must muster up faith for God to print paper money?

3. Lets say you married your helper. When your wife was your helper you had to pay her to do X and Y. If she did not do it you did not pay her. You wanted her to do X and Y because those things please you. Now you marry her. She still knows X and Y please you. But can you hold her to them? Will you keep her allowance from her if she doesn't do them? My wife will SLAP ME if I hold her to anything!! We are not Jews.

We need to move on into a deeper more meaningful relationship. It is simply disrespectful to claim / hold God to any promise. The only promise we can hold Him to is Matt 6:26. Let's move on and grasp the heart of God behind everything that transpires. Jesus could help all who came His way because He is God.

Just think again on the faith of Abraham. Was Abraham's faith that was accredited to him as righteousness...faith that God exists? Faith that God can do a miracle? Faith that if he does X God will do Y? Abraham was in torment. Abraham was going through a terrible time in his life. Abraham had no peace. Abraham was being trialed. Abraham was in hell. Yet Abraham did not lose his faith IN God. Abraham knew that God is good and must have one hell of a reason for asking something so terrible of him. There was no claiming life over death. No choosing to walk in prosperity and health. No choosing to walk in blessing and not a curse. It was enduring the will of God and having faith in Him that brought a peace that surpassed all understanding. Just think about God's peace. It surpasses all understanding because it makes absolutely NO sense. Someone in torment can be at peace.

4. Reality is that life can be terrible for those that love Jesus. God would do anything for those that simply love Him! Which means if life is not prosperous and great for those that love Him, it is His will.

 

[KingJ]

Did you mean to say something this quote ? It seems to be blank. ( ? )

Hi, yes please can you delete it.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

@KingJ

Hi Jim

I was replying line by line but found myself repeating myself. I see four issues to discuss that you and I do not seem to see eye to eye on.

1. What and who a Christian is
2. Faith
3. Respecting God
4. Facing reality

1. A Christian is a child of God. God is our Father. You are constantly proposing we act and carry ourselves like we are not children of God. Hold God to this, hold God to that. If I don't have faith for this, that will not happen. If I don't walk in love this will not happen. If I doubt...If I don't know God's promises. Do you want your children to treat you like this? Do you treat your children like this?

Kj that is quite the opposite of what I am saying for I am saying we need to walk and act like true heirs of the throne or true obedient to His word children of God. Another words walk and act and say and speak how He has told us to in His written word. Crying and winey christians do not move God but those who come to His throne room boldly with His word do. Boldly is not all cocky and haughty my friend friend but is A CONFIDENT CHILD OF GOD AND HIS WORD.

GOD teaches us all through out His written word how to speak and how to not speak. He teaches us about doubt.......see James for one place. God is always looking for His word to be put into action and you do this by speaking it and doing it.

Actually yes I would have my children treat me like this. If I tell them if they act like this they get rewarded and if they act like that then they do not get anything or punished. Now common sense is need here for we are not talking about the things they need for life that parents provide.

OBTW Faith will not work with out love or forgiveness. His word tells us this.
Don't forget love and forgiveness is a command of His as well.

2. When we were unsaved we had no faith. Lets say we lived on the moon with no gravity. Now that we are saved, we live on earth with gravity. Do we need faith in gravity if we now live on earth? We can say we have faith in gravity, but anyone proposing we need to build up our faith in gravity just does not get it. They are speaking like they are still on the moon. We already believe God created the universe. We already believe God exists. Now we must muster up faith for God to print paper money?

KJ I have no earthly or moonie idea what you are talking about here.
We are given a measure of faith. We either build it up or we don't . If it was one faith fits all then God would not have said faith comes by hearing the word now would He ?

3. Lets say you married your helper. When your wife was your helper you had to pay her to do X and Y. If she did not do it you did not pay her. You wanted her to do X and Y because those things please you. Now you marry her. She still knows X and Y please you. But can you hold her to them? Will you keep her allowance from her if she doesn't do them? My wife will SLAP ME if I hold her to anything!! We are not Jews.

Again have no clue what you are talking about but what if we allow your wife to know that you are keeping her from experiencing the promises of God in her life ? Would that be a slap?

We need to move on into a deeper more meaningful relationship. It is simply disrespectful to claim / hold God to any promise. The only promise we can hold Him to isMatt 6:26. Let's move on and grasp the heart of God behind everything that transpires. Jesus could help all who came His way because His heart was one with God's. That is what we are to grow in. Getting closer to the heart of God.

Disrespectful to hold God to His word ? Kj this is what God is trying to get His people to do. He set it up this way. It is disrespectful to Christ to not live the life He purchased for you. It is not respect but obedience to His word.

Just think again on the faith of Abraham. Was Abraham's faith that was accredited to him as righteousness...faith that God exists? Faith that God can do a miracle? Faith that if he does X God will do Y? Abraham was in torment. Abraham was going through a terrible time in his life. Abraham had no peace. Abraham was being trialed. Abraham was in hell. Yet Abraham did not lose his faith IN God. Abraham knew that God is good and must have one hell of a reason for asking something so terrible of him. There was no claiming life over death. No choosing to walk in prosperity and health. No choosing to walk in blessing and not a curse. It was enduring the will of God and having faith in Him that brought a peace that surpassed all understanding. Just think about God's peace. It surpasses all understanding because it makes absolutely NO sense. Someone in torment can be at peace.

KJ you don't even know what you are saying here about Abraham. Abraham was Blessed beyond anything you have ever seen AND GOD DID IT. That is why we are heirs to that blessing as well. God separated Him from his family and friends because they were so full of doubt and other foolishness and God did this so He could get him away from all of this and teach him His ways.

Abraham understood Gods ways bro and he was prosperous in so many ways and we are to be like that too. Brother it is in His word. God wanted to see how far or how much Abraham would trust Him and this is why He said to sacrifice Isaac. Now a little understanding in a true pure sacrifice to God and you would know that God had not ever planned on Abraham killing Isaac for God requires un-blemished sacrifices and Isaac was human which means born into sin and blemished.

4. Reality is that life can be terrible for those that love Jesus. God would do anything for those that simply love Him! Which means if life is not prosperous and great, it is God's will.

Kj no disrespect here but you are not even speaking in His truth of His word. No where in His word does it teach such a thing as this... So if we go by what you are saying then it is nothing more then a crap shoot when it comes to living a GOOD LIFE in GOD. Some of us are in His will to be happy and some of us are in His will to be sad and hateful and want to curse life and die. So it is kind of like we just do not understand God for He is Sovereign and all mighty AND SOME FOLKS HAVE IT GOOD AND SOME FOLKS GOD JUST KICKS AROUND AND GIVES THEM A HELLISH LIFE.

That is religion talking and ignorant disrespect of God and His word and His ways.

God Bless You Kj
Jim

 

[KingJ]

Kj that is quite the opposite of what I am saying for I am saying we need to walk and act like true heirs of the throne or true obedient to His word children of God. Another words walk and act and say and speak how He has told us to in His written word. Crying and winey christians do not move God but those who come to His throne room boldly with His word do . Boldly is not all cocky and haughty my friend friend but is A CONFIDENT CHILD OF GOD AND HIS WORD.

How about those who love Him do? How does being 'in His face' show love, respect and humility?

GOD teaches us all through out His written word how to speak and how to not speak. He teaches us about doubt.......see James for one place. God is always looking for His word to be put into action and you do this by speaking it and doing it.

C'mon Jim, this is playing Christian vs being a Christian.

Actually yes I would have my children treat me like this. If I tell them if they act like this they get rewarded and if they act like that then they do not get anything or punished. Now common sense is need here for we are not talking about the things they need for life that parents provide.

We are not talking needs? I am only referring to needs. Does a good parent meet the needs of their children, yes or no?

OBTW Faith will not work with out love or forgiveness. His word tells us this. Don't forget love and forgiveness is a command of His as well.

What faith will not work?

KJ I have no earthly or moonie idea what you are talking about here. We are given a measure of faith. We either build it up or we don't . If it was one faith fits all then God would not have said faith comes by hearing the word now would He ?

The unsaved need faith that there is a God. That Jesus is God. The saved have all received a measure of faith that Jesus is God 1 Cor 12:3. We now know God exists and that Jesus is God. Our faith in God and Jesus is on par with our faith in gravity.

Now, when you propose we need to build our faith for trivial things, you are speaking about the faith the unsaved need to build.

Again have no clue what you are talking about but what if we allow your wife to know that you are keeping her from experiencing the promises of God in her life ? Would that be a slap?

The point is that it is disrespectful of me to hold God to anything. I am not a Jew. I am not unsaved. God is not someone who we can demand pays us for X. Would you tell your wife she is not getting fed tonight / not getting a new dress because she did not wash the dishes? Does her decision to marry you not outweigh all such stupidity / trivialness?

Disrespectful to hold God to His word ? Kj this is what God is trying to get His people to do. He set it up this way. It is disrespectful to Christ to not live the life He purchased for you. It is not respect but obedience to His word.?

What life did He purchase for us?

KJ you don't even know what you are saying here about Abraham. Abraham was Blessed beyond anything you have ever seen AND GOD DID IT.

God blessing him was part of a greater purpose. It is not necessarily directly related to his obedience. Do you think Abraham cared at all about his prosperity? Do you think Abraham would have been less faithful if he remained poor?

Kj no disrespect here but you are not even speaking in His truth of His word. No where in His word does it teach such a thing as this... So if we go by what you are saying then it is nothing more then a crap shoot when it comes to living a GOOD LIFE in GOD. Some of us are in His will to be happy and some of us are in His will to be sad and hateful and want to curse life and die. So it is kind of like we just do not understand God for He is Sovereign and all mighty AND SOME FOLKS HAVE IT GOOD AND SOME FOLKS GOD JUST KICKS AROUND AND GIVES THEM A HELLISH LIFE. That is religion talking and ignorant disrespect of God and His word and His ways.

For a Christian, happiness should not come from carnal blessings. You say others who are not 'blessed'... are sad, hateful and curse life, but you could not be further from the truth. I have a few friends that are poor and suffering with bodily afflictions but that love Jesus much more then I do. I don't know if I would serve Jesus as I do if was in such a trial. Perhaps God knows this and that's why I am not?

 

[Arrie03]

I think trials and troubles are part of life. I do know that how we treat those trials are important, are we going to reject God in it and tackle it on our own strength or are we going to know Him in the trial or trouble and follow His way and His will?
The rocks David picked up from the stream were smooth, but how did they get smooth in order to be used by David? Most likely, those rocks had to be shaped that way by currents and other rocks and things like that - trials and troubles so to say.
I'm trying to say, if we learn to know God in our trials and troubles more, then our rough edges may be smoothed out, making us ready to be used by Him when it matters.
So yes, trials and troubles should be seen for an opportunity to grow in His way.
Does a sparrow that falls to ground do so outside His hand? Does He have the whole world in His hands?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

@KingJ

↑
GOD teaches us all through out His written word how to speak and how to not speak. He teaches us about doubt.......see James for one place. God is always looking for His word to be put into action and you do this by speaking it and doing it.
C'mon Jim, this is playing Christian vs being a Christian.

No Kj that is simply acting or walking according to His word. God tells us how to live brother Kj in His word and it is up to each of us to get His ways into our ways or another words start thinking like Him. Othere wise you are no different now then you were before you became born again.

Actually yes I would have my children treat me like this. If I tell them if they act like this they get rewarded and if they act like that then they do not get anything or punished. Now common sense is need here for we are not talking about the things they need for life that parents provide.
We are not talking needs? I am only referring to needs. Does a good parent meet the needs of their children, yes or no?

Kj what point are you trying to make with this ? Yes a parent takes care of the needs of their children JUST LIKE GOD is taking care of your life needs or another words you have food and shelter and a way to get online and electricity to charge them. Bit that has nothing to do with what we are talking about now does it !

OBTW Faith will not work with out love or forgiveness. His word tells us this. Don't forget love and forgiveness is a command of His as well.
What faith will not work?

Again Kj what point is it you are making here ? God tells us in His written word that there are things that destroy your faith or limit your faith or KILL your faith. Why Brother Kj did not Jesus ask His own disciples things like where is your faith or why did you not just do this?
I remember one time where Jesus said YE of little faith and then had to rebuke the wind and waves Him self when the disciples should have done this. That is only one of many KJ
KJ I have no earthly or moonie idea what you are talking about here. We are given a measure of faith. We either build it up or we don't . If
it was one faith fits all then God would not have said faith comes by hearing the word now would He ?

The unsaved need faith that there is a God. That Jesus is God. The saved have all received a measure of faith that Jesus is God . We now know God exists and that Jesus is God. Our faith in God and Jesus is on par with our faith in gravity.

Again I have no clue what you are thinking here. The unsaved do not need Faith to be saved. They need to ask for it and this can be done from a crushed heart or devistation or anothers words they need help and they need Jesus.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God so if we go by what you say, then the unsaved would have to study His written word and get their faith built up so they can be saved ? Let me say it this way...........NO WAY BRO !! That is just worng thinking. ; )

Now, when you propose we need to build our faith for trivial things, you are speaking about the faith the unsaved need to build.
Again with faith for the unsaved- Kj I said we need to build up our faith in Christ and His written word because GOD SAYS SO IN HIS WORD. Faith comes by hearing His word. This shows us that the measure of faith He gives us is NOT enough to stand against the enemy the devil or day to day crap life throws at you.

The point is that it is disrespectful of me to hold God to anything. I am not a Jew. I am not unsaved. God is not someone who we can demand pays us for X. Would you tell your wife she is not getting fed tonight / not getting a new dress because she did not wash the dishes? Does her decision to marry you not outweigh all such stupidity / trivialness?

KJ we have been adopted into His family.

What life did He purchase for us?
I am not going to go through all that again here. The entire written word of God shows us the life Christ purchased for us.
May I ask you a personal question Brother KJ ? Do you have a spiritual father in the Lord ? Some one God has placed in your life to teach you the ways of God ? If not perhaps you should pray about this. I believe it would be a great help toyou and your family Borther.

My going back and forth with you is not to say I am right or you are right but to try and get you to seek this out and find it out for your self. KJ you are limiting the life God has planned for you and your family. That is where my heart is at. He has so much more for you and desires you to have it but you have got to come up higher in your walk in Christ and understanding of His word.

KJ I want to share something with you. NLT
My thoughts are completely different from yours says the Lord. And My ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the Heavens are higher then the earth, so are MY ways higher then your ways and My thoughts higher than your thoughts.

Brother Kj please try to see this........God is telling us that our thinking and ways are not inline with His and GOD NEVER SAID we can not get there He said we are not thinking right.
My point is this..........Yes we can never be as smart as God but this is not what this is about. It is simply telling us that if we will learn to think and speak and do as His words says to then we will experience the life He has planned for us.

Carnal minded Christians cant get there nor can those who are not Born of His spirit but we that have the mind Of Chirst can by renewing our minds ( thinking and way of doing things) to His written word. It is OUR CHOICE TO MAKE. God has done His part and once we make a move He will do His part or another words- you can live a limited life excepting everything as His will and get into heaven or You can ACTUALLY DO HIS WORD and see HIm move bigger in your life. This is His idea and way.

Kj I love you and pray that you will find His Truth in His word soon
God Bless YOU Kj
Jim

↑

 

[Lanolin]

Maybe trials and troubles are BC and walking in victory is AD. We all have trials and troubles before we know the Lord. They push us to know Jesus even more. They prod us to ask God for help.
And AD some times satan wants to attack us but we have to learn to put on Gods armour.

God is sovereign even over satan. But we cannot say satans efforts to attack us are Gods will. Dont call evil good. But what satan meant for evil, God turn out for good! God can turn it around.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Maybe trials and troubles are BC and walking in victory is AD. We all have trials and troubles before we know the Lord. They push us to know Jesus even more. They prod us to ask God for help.
And AD some times satan wants to attack us but we have to learn to put on Gods armour.

God is sovereign even over satan. But we cannot say satans efforts to attack us are Gods will. Dont call evil good. But what satan meant for evil, God turn out for good! God can turn it around.

Lanolin you are not far from the truth here at all.
Exactly God can turn it around or work good in it or use what the devil meant as a tripping stone and turn it into a stepping stone.
Amen !!

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ
My thoughts are completely different from yours says the Lord. And My ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the Heavens are higher then the earth, so are MY ways higher then your ways and My thoughts higher than your thoughts.

Brother Kj please try to see this........God is telling us that our thinking and ways are not inline with His and GOD NEVER SAID we can not get there He said we are not thinking right.
My point is this..........Yes we can never be as smart as God but this is not what this is about. It is simply telling us that if we will learn to think and speak and do as His words says to then we will experience the life He has planned for us.

Carnal minded Christians cant get there nor can those who are not Born of His spirit but we that have the mind Of Chirst can by renewing our minds ( thinking and way of doing things) to His written word. It is OUR CHOICE TO MAKE. God has done His part and once we make a move He will do His part or another words- you can live a limited life excepting everything as His will and get into heaven or You can ACTUALLY DO HIS WORD and see HIm move bigger in your life. This is His idea and way.

Jim, Jesus never spoke to Christians. Do you think Peter ever lacked faith for walking on water after he was convinced that Jesus is God? Matt 16:15-17 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

Yes, we must grow in faith. I keep hoping you will answer my question on what faith exactly it is that I / we are lacking on trivial requests and needs. Are we lacking faith in God's greatness? Are we lacking faith that God is good? What faith are we lacking?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Jim, Jesus never spoke to Christians. Do you think Peter ever lacked faith for walking on water after he was convinced that Jesus is God? Matt 16:15-17 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

Yes, we must grow in faith. I keep hoping you will answer my question on what faith exactly it is that I / we are lacking on trivial requests and needs. Are we lacking faith in God's greatness? Are we lacking faith that God is good? What faith are we lacking?

I did not say you are lacking faith i said fear and doubt and unforgiveness and such destroys faith and limits faith.

Jesus speaks to Christians every day. He also walked in this earth for 40 days after He rose and went to the Father.
Peter began with strong faith and began to walk on the water but then FEAR TOOK OVER.
Fear of The Bigger Waves and Wind and this fear began to weaken His faith and he began to sink. Just because YOu beleive Jesus is the son of God does not give you faith that will stand for you in any battle or situation.

 

[Lanolin]

Some christians just believe that Jesus will take them to heaven when they die, and thats all there is to it. They are living for their death really. Some believe if they just go to church they be fine and thay are christians.
But they havent applied Jesus blood to their life and daily walk. I think they missing out on the abundant life Jesus has for them right now. It doesnt mean, we gonna live forever cos we still in our unglorified bodies...but we can claim victory over sin. I guess its how much you willing to humble yourself and let God take over and walk in the spirit.

 

[KingJ]

I did not say you are lacking faith i said fear and doubt and unforgiveness and such destroys faith and limits faith.

Whenever you say I need to build my faith for needs, you are saying I lack faith.

So what you are saying is that if my kid is afraid of me or anyone / thing else, doubts me in anyway and is holding onto unforgiveness against his brother...I will not give him his promised birthday present, daily food, medical attention, monthly allowance, daily toy? Like I asked, do you treat your kids like this. If you do, you shouldn't. A kid is a kid. The unsaved are not children of God. The Jews were not children of God. Christians are. Christians became adopted children of God because God was / is sufficiently content with their faith / love / desire to please Him. Nothing needs to be added. Which is exactly what you are doing Jim. You are adding to the cross. Like it was not sufficient to place us in God's bosom. To give us direct access to all God has, with no exceptions except for His will.

Peter walked on water and fell before his revelation that Jesus is God. Peter did more then walk on water after it. This revelation that Peter got is on par with what we receive.

We grow in faith but not the trivial faith that you are proposing.

 

[KingJ]

Maybe trials and troubles are BC and walking in victory is AD. We all have trials and troubles before we know the Lord. They push us to know Jesus even more. They prod us to ask God for help.
And AD some times satan wants to attack us but we have to learn to put on Gods armour.

God is sovereign even over satan. But we cannot say satans efforts to attack us are Gods will. Dont call evil good. But what satan meant for evil, God turn out for good! God can turn it around.

I would say it is the complete opposite. Now that we have touched Jesus, do commune with God of the universe, have a measure of faith on par with, if not exceeding those of OT prophets....we are able to endure much more for God.

Putting God's armour on? Please tell me you don't take that literally.

 

[KingJ]

God wants to look down at earth and be able to say...WOW that is my loyal child that will endure much for me. Not, ok there is a child that is spoiled and has not had a single day of hardship. I hope He will be loyal when troubled times come.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Whenever you say I need to build my faith for needs, you are saying I lack faith.

So what you are saying is that if my kid is afraid of me or anyone / thing else, doubts me in anyway and is holding onto unforgiveness against his brother...I will not give him his promised birthday present, daily food, medical attention, monthly allowance, daily toy? Like I asked, do you treat your kids like this. If you do, you shouldn't. A kid is a kid. The unsaved are not children of God. The Jews were not children of God. Christians are. Christians became adopted children of God because God was / is sufficiently content with their faith / love / desire to please Him. Nothing needs to be added. Which is exactly what you are doing Jim. You are adding to the cross. Like it was not sufficient to place us in God's bosom. To give us direct access to all God has, with no exceptions except for His will.

Peter walked on water and fell before his revelation that Jesus is God. Peter did more then walk on water after it. This revelation that Peter got is on par with what we receive.

We grow in faith but not the trivial faith that you are proposing.

KJ THERE IS ONE FAITH !!
I pray in the Name of Jesus that one day your mind and heart will be opened unto His truths in His written word brother. I pray that our Loving Father would bring a revelation understanding of His word like nothing you have ever known and I give all Glory unto Him.
In Jesus name amen.
Have a great day my friend
Jim