So we disagree?
I'm not wanting to come across as contrary, I'm just trying to understand what your communicating to me.
Universalism, Resurrection, Rewards, Kingdom of God (Inside-Outside)
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
So we disagree?
I'm not wanting to come across as contrary, I'm just trying to understand what your communicating to me.
Cperkins,
That is our hope that is given from God, as a believer we are going to at the end of our life go and be with God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The heart is always something that needs to be checked, and sometimes as human we can let it run astray, thankful God, is always there with us and we have the word of God to rely on to increase our faith and to continue to hold on to hope.
Believe that when believing becomes knowing - knowing that you are set and you have completely faith and trust in God though sometimes you might get off course, God still loves you, God still has a purpose for you, that the Lord Jesus Christ is always there with us, by the spirit of Christ, and God by the holy spirit. (Faith in assurance of Hope of the things unseen)
You can walk confidently in your identity that is of Christ Jesus, though we have our identity of the flesh which will be there until we die. A choice is made daily to live by the spirit, die to the flesh.
Or live by the flesh and quench the spirit (Though it still there - unless a person completely decides to walk away from faith - God will allow that person to go by their own free-will choice out of love.)
Take care
May the grace and peace of God our FAther and the Lord Jesus Christ be with you and all here on this forum site.
Today made a post called "The Cost of Hatred" it is a good read and study of hatred if anyone interested.(only 2 scriptures out of 1 John still very useful in understanding Hate, and the versatility of Love.)
The Cost of Hatred
Here is one scripture that outlines the cost of hatred towards others, even a brother or sister in the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ. In accordance with what Jesus Christ has done - we to ought to react the same way, however - believe that mutual respect of course is needed towards any person...
christianforumsite.com
I was ofering the word mesenger that some call angel is used in two ways .
The word messenger or what some call angel is used to support the gospel as apotles sent with prophecy as well as work to make it without effect in a evil way as false prophets, false apostles .
Universalism is a misguided belief system. It's filled with self-serving acceptance of anything and everything that doesn't disagree with it, and is intolerant of what opposes its core beliefs. That system of thought opposes the REAL Jesus of scripture who said of Himself that HE is the way, HE is the truth, and HE is the life, which is exclusionary of any and all others. The idea that two opposing views have equal validity is absurd, but universalism has that as part of its inner sanctum of values.
Resurrection of Condemnation? There is a resurrection TO condemnation, which will be the Second Resurrection. It will be what the Lord said it will be, so discussion beyond that isn't necessarily value added.
The difference between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God is rather striking, even though many commentators routinely confuse the two as if they were one and the same.
MM
LOL.......I have been trying to figure that out now for about 2 months or so. I still have no clue I am just glad to know that I am not alone!
The bible speaks of one resurection which began when the veil was rent . That gate or door will not close untill the last day under the Sun . . two deaths of different kinds.
Gari.....The Bible tells us that there are TWO Resurrections. Many people, among them some Christians, have been taught to believe that there is only one “general” resurrection of all the dead at the end of the world. This is a serious error which has robbed many believers of joy and victory in this life. Nowhere in the Scriptures are we taught that the bodies of all men will be raised at the same time. It is true that all the dead will be raised and brought into judgment, but neither the time, the place, nor the judgments are the same. The Bible clearly distinguishes between a first and a second resurrection.
Revelation 20:5............
"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
Common sense tells us that if there is a FIRST then there must be a SECOND.
Luke 14:14............
"And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee; for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just".
There is, then, a “resurrection of the just,” and since “all shall come forth,” there must of necessity be a resurrection of the unjust. Since the dead in Christ shall rise first, the implication is that the dead out of Christ (or without Christ) will be raised afterwards
Acts 24:15...........
“that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust”. = 2!!!
Revelation 20:12........
All of the unsaved, “small and great, stand before God”.
The resurrection of the righteous takes place at Christ's return, but that of the uncalled—the second resurrection—will occur in the Great White Throne Judgment after the Millennium.
Revelation 20:11-14...........
"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."
Since there is a SECOND DEATH, then there must be a SECOND RESURRECTION!!!! Aresurrection unto death, and the Lake of Fire where Satan, the A/C, False Prophet and all who are lost and unsaved will be tormented forever and forever!
Revelation 20:10............
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
God is merciful, loving and kind, not willing that any should perish. He desires all to come to the knowledge of the truth and to true repentance at the proper time. He has determined that most will receive this opportunity when He has set up His Kingdom on the earth, an environment most conducive to salvation.
Its in your version. Two kinds of death one ressurection on the last day. No double jeapordy or mis-trial. The wage of sin death never to rise to new spirit life.
The English words believe and hope don't really capture the meaning of either the Hebrew or Greek. Belief is expectant assurance or acting in faith and through experience in trusting God we can come to know which is similar to hope. Rom 5:1-5 shows the progression.
As to the highlighted in blue, I'm not sure I understand your perspective on faith, choice, the new man vs the old man, the Holy Spirit that lives in us. We are still subject to the pulls of the flesh on this I fully agree. How is it that you perceive that you are different after receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Because my entire life changed,
From hate. From drugs. From seeking pornography. From manipulating others.
God changes everything if you let him in. (Still not perfect)
The world kind of started melting away, the more focused and more knowledge that came with learning about God.
Never read the book of acts, but read the Gospels twice, read the rest of the books,
The more you read and you accept God in renewing your mind and heart. That’s how you know the Holy Spirit/spirit of Christ is with you.
Your mindset and heart changes a lot because of Them.
Cperkins don’t you remember?
“Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.”
Hebrews 11:1-3 NLT
There is more than just Romans 5.
Keep reading there are several more chapters in Romans.
Galatians 5, somewhere else -> how were are confirmed to the image of Christ the more we learn and grow in him. Romans 8:28-30.
Get all my perception and knowledge off the Bible alone.
The Holy Spirit helps me remember what was learned.
The only thing that is different for most people is my end time belief which is -> all believers are going to go to God and receive a resurrected body spiritual body and live with God and the Lord God Almighty Yeshua. Other people who make the choice not to seek God or Jesus Christ and they reject them are going to be outside the kingdom of God. All people will be resurrected and given a body by God that is pleasing to Him.
Choice we all have free-will I could easily choose not respond but you are curious and don’t mind sharing with you so I choose to.
I forgive those on here who try to pester me or shoot me down because do enjoy teaching. Love them regardless God bless them and hope God helps them in their life.
Like I said the new man is when we put on Christ and live by the spirit, the old man is the one that is mean, hateful, despises others, seeks his own ways rather than seeking the ways of God.
All I know cperkins, for myself I’m never going to be able to please anyone in this life sir, in the fashion that God can actually please them through faith and having peace with God...
There are many people out here who don’t even read the Bible by their own choice not too.
None of us on this earth are special or better than the next person, though do say as a warning to be cautious and don’t trust me, or trust men, but Trust God who won’t never leave you and will always listen to you.
God doesn’t like Johnny better than Susan.
God doesn’t like Susan better than Johnny.
In Gods eyes everyone is the same,
He desires to have relationship with them, He cares and loves them.
If God didn’t care he would never had sent his son Jesus Christ
Tale care thank you if you read all this.
CPerkins what are your views on the things you asked me they might be different?
From hate. From drugs. From seeking pornography. From manipulating others.
God changes everything if you let him in. (Still not perfect)
The world kind of started melting away, the more focused and more knowledge that came with learning about God.
Never read the book of acts, but read the Gospels twice, read the rest of the books,
The more you read and you accept God in renewing your mind and heart. That’s how you know the Holy Spirit/spirit of Christ is with you.
Your mindset and heart changes a lot because of Them.
Cperkins don’t you remember?
“Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.”
Hebrews 11:1-3 NLT
Hebrews 11:1-3 Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire | New Living Translation (NLT) | D
Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire
www.bible.com
There is more than just Romans 5.
Keep reading there are several more chapters in Romans.
Galatians 5, somewhere else -> how were are confirmed to the image of Christ the more we learn and grow in him. Romans 8:28-30.
Get all my perception and knowledge off the Bible alone.
The Holy Spirit helps me remember what was learned.
The only thing that is different for most people is my end time belief which is -> all believers are going to go to God and receive a resurrected body spiritual body and live with God and the Lord God Almighty Yeshua. Other people who make the choice not to seek God or Jesus Christ and they reject them are going to be outside the kingdom of God. All people will be resurrected and given a body by God that is pleasing to Him.
Choice we all have free-will I could easily choose not respond but you are curious and don’t mind sharing with you so I choose to.
I forgive those on here who try to pester me or shoot me down because do enjoy teaching. Love them regardless God bless them and hope God helps them in their life.
Like I said the new man is when we put on Christ and live by the spirit, the old man is the one that is mean, hateful, despises others, seeks his own ways rather than seeking the ways of God.
All I know cperkins, for myself I’m never going to be able to please anyone in this life sir, in the fashion that God can actually please them through faith and having peace with God...
There are many people out here who don’t even read the Bible by their own choice not too.
None of us on this earth are special or better than the next person, though do say as a warning to be cautious and don’t trust me, or trust men, but Trust God who won’t never leave you and will always listen to you.
God doesn’t like Johnny better than Susan.
God doesn’t like Susan better than Johnny.
In Gods eyes everyone is the same,
He desires to have relationship with them, He cares and loves them.
If God didn’t care he would never had sent his son Jesus Christ
Tale care thank you if you read all this.
CPerkins what are your views on the things you asked me they might be different?
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Also one more thing Cperkins, people try to read the Bible in an entire year, not sure why, maybe it is a prestige badge medal at the end of this.
You can read a 5 chapter book in about 2 hours, maybe. Some people read faster than others, but really munching and eating on what is being said has the ability to change you.
It’s hard though our flesh doesn’t really wanna read the Bible most of the time. I don’t read it every day, do try to make effort sometimes.
The spirit inside of needs it to live off of, to be strong in faith.
Context will always matter,
Who is it being written to,
why is it being written,
Who are the audience,
What is being taught,
What can we learn in application today by the spirit,
(as you know my belief is everything is done and fulfilled)
That doesn’t mean there is not still applications to be learned and lessons to be learned from Christ a Jesus - (mostly he speaks to his disciples on what they should go out and do) there are lessons still though through the parables,
Also there is things still to be learned from the other books as well.
The Bible is a goldmine of wealth and riches of Christ Jesus and God.
Was gonna add one more thing but forgot. It’s amazing the disciples went out and did what Jesus Christ told them to do, and they ended up dying for their faith in Him. They trusted everything that He promised them.
Does everything being done and fulfilled strip away hope from others?
What was your hope or what is your hope now?
many people believe God going to bring down an apoloclypse on the nations for they believe it is the last days which is okay.
many people believe they will see the Lord coming in his glory? But is this really being spoken to you or them then?
Questions you have to ask yourself and talk to God about.
God hasn’t stopped loving you, or caring about you.
(these are general questions to anyone not just you cperkins.)
You can read a 5 chapter book in about 2 hours, maybe. Some people read faster than others, but really munching and eating on what is being said has the ability to change you.
It’s hard though our flesh doesn’t really wanna read the Bible most of the time. I don’t read it every day, do try to make effort sometimes.
The spirit inside of needs it to live off of, to be strong in faith.
Context will always matter,
Who is it being written to,
why is it being written,
Who are the audience,
What is being taught,
What can we learn in application today by the spirit,
(as you know my belief is everything is done and fulfilled)
That doesn’t mean there is not still applications to be learned and lessons to be learned from Christ a Jesus - (mostly he speaks to his disciples on what they should go out and do) there are lessons still though through the parables,
Also there is things still to be learned from the other books as well.
The Bible is a goldmine of wealth and riches of Christ Jesus and God.
Was gonna add one more thing but forgot. It’s amazing the disciples went out and did what Jesus Christ told them to do, and they ended up dying for their faith in Him. They trusted everything that He promised them.
Does everything being done and fulfilled strip away hope from others?
What was your hope or what is your hope now?
many people believe God going to bring down an apoloclypse on the nations for they believe it is the last days which is okay.
many people believe they will see the Lord coming in his glory? But is this really being spoken to you or them then?
Questions you have to ask yourself and talk to God about.
God hasn’t stopped loving you, or caring about you.
(these are general questions to anyone not just you cperkins.)
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That is incorrect and it is not Biblical.
Every single person who has ever lived will be resurrected and re-united with their spirit.
the 1st Resurrection is unto LIFE and is for believers.
the 2nd Resurrection is unto DEATH and is for all unbelievers.
Because my entire life changed,
From hate. From drugs. From seeking pornography. From manipulating others.
God changes everything if you let him in. (Still not perfect)
The world kind of started melting away, the more focused and more knowledge that came with learning about God.
Never read the book of acts, but read the Gospels twice, read the rest of the books,
The more you read and you accept God in renewing your mind and heart. That’s how you know the Holy Spirit/spirit of Christ is with you.
Your mindset and heart changes a lot because of Them.
Cperkins don’t you remember?
“Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.”
Hebrews 11:1-3 NLT
Hebrews 11:1-3 Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire | New Living Translation (NLT) | D
Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entirewww.bible.com
There is more than just Romans 5.
Keep reading there are several more chapters in Romans.
Galatians 5, somewhere else -> how were are confirmed to the image of Christ the more we learn and grow in him. Romans 8:28-30.
Get all my perception and knowledge off the Bible alone.
The Holy Spirit helps me remember what was learned.
The only thing that is different for most people is my end time belief which is -> all believers are going to go to God and receive a resurrected body spiritual body and live with God and the Lord God Almighty Yeshua. Other people who make the choice not to seek God or Jesus Christ and they reject them are going to be outside the kingdom of God. All people will be resurrected and given a body by God that is pleasing to Him.
Choice we all have free-will I could easily choose not respond but you are curious and don’t mind sharing with you so I choose to.
I forgive those on here who try to pester me or shoot me down because do enjoy teaching. Love them regardless God bless them and hope God helps them in their life.
Like I said the new man is when we put on Christ and live by the spirit, the old man is the one that is mean, hateful, despises others, seeks his own ways rather than seeking the ways of God.
All I know cperkins, for myself I’m never going to be able to please anyone in this life sir, in the fashion that God can actually please them through faith and having peace with God...
There are many people out here who don’t even read the Bible by their own choice not too.
None of us on this earth are special or better than the next person, though do say as a warning to be cautious and don’t trust me, or trust men, but Trust God who won’t never leave you and will always listen to you.
God doesn’t like Johnny better than Susan.
God doesn’t like Susan better than Johnny.
In Gods eyes everyone is the same,
He desires to have relationship with them, He cares and loves them.
If God didn’t care he would never had sent his son Jesus Christ
Tale care thank you if you read all this.
CPerkins what are your views on the things you asked me they might be different?
In your 2nd post you said YOU did not own a Bible. How can you now be advising Brother Perkins on How to read the Bible?????
Do YOU know who he is and his credentials?????
If YOU do not own a Bible, on what basis do you now propose to give instructions on HOW TO READ THE BIBLE????
You said..............
"Cperkins don’t you remember?"
That is condescension Matthew at the highest level!!!!!! I propose that YOU publicly apologize to brother Perkins!
I would offer. Not a salvation issue that could take away from the simplicity of the gospel But I would offer more of how can we hear God not seen or say we hear. What he says to the churches (us)
The first death is death to those who have not been given a new born again spirit .
The wage of sin. . Genesis 2:17 “you will surely die.” The letter it kills as it was designed.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
As the mark of His word. .. it does not return void of the purpose he sends it to us.
The temporal earthen body, and temporal spirit given under the letter of the law death returns to its source
Those given a new born again spirit will rise on the last day and receive the promise of a incorruptible body.
The second death is the tool of death itself (the letter of the law) or the Bible, God’s word in its entirety .
1 Corinthians 15:53-55 King James Version (KJV For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
No sting senitiveity of the Spirit. The grave of the dead (no breath of life) dead bones lost its ability to deceive mankind. No victory to deceive life after the last breath of the spirit. .
Death in respect to the letter of the law . . . the first death with its dying suffering called hell are both tossed into the spirit of judgment signified as fire .The letter of the law (death) it will not rise up and kill an entire creation ever again .
The former things under the Sun will not come to mind or be remembered forever more. Many rides on how we define the word “hell”.it seem to have lost its ability to indicate death never to rise to new life
From my experience some would have us believe we can did up bones like the trial of Pope Formosa and pronounce judgment on bones re burying the dead bones in a place of false hope that some call purgatory.
The death of death itself . . the cause of the sufferings of hell.
Yoked with Christ who works in us that burden is lighter with a future hope.No hope beyond the grave . . it has no victory. Christ acording to His labor of love or called work of faith is our victor of our new born again faith
The ressurection (salvation gate) will stay open untill the last day under the Sun . Two kinds of death
Yes and No. Whether or not what is discussed is a salvation issue is not of importance Gari.
What is important is whether or not we are promoting TRUTH or are we proposing OPINIONS.
You said...........
"The first death is death to those who have not been given a new born again spirit" .
That is incorrect IMHO.
There is "Physical" death and that is when the body dies. THAT is the 1st death.
There is then "Spiritual" death and that is total seperation from God and that happens when the lost man is cast into the Lack of Fire in Revelation 20. THAT then is the 2nd death.
Adam died SPIRITUALLY the moment he ate the fruit. But he lived PHYSICALLY another 960 years.
I had asked, How is it that you perceive that you are different after receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit?
It sounds like God is working in your life.
I agree that God produces a real change in us, changing everything. This is a slow process I found and that growth comes in spurts. As a young Christian my experience I lacked humility, I began to have head knowledge, but lacked the ability to apply God's word effectively. This kind of knowledge can puff up and it did.
I'm not sure if I remember all of my Christian experience, but yes I remember a lot of it.
One thing I have come to know and trust is God as my teacher, guide, help and so much more. How is it though that we hear God? In my life much of that hearing comes from God's own words that he reveals to me. God gives understanding, understanding being so much different from simple knowledge.
I acknowledge that it is God that has led me to him, that it is God that has given me understanding, that it is God who is producing the change within me. My flesh does fight that change from time to time, but the Spirit with in me helps and guides me that while I may or may not stumble God sees that I get to the other side of trials and troubles.
In me, I recognize that it is not I that choose, but the Holy Spirit that leads. God draws me to him.
Sorry, if I'm breaking up your post, but you presented a lot of material. I'll get to the rest soon.
It sounds like God is working in your life.
I agree that God produces a real change in us, changing everything. This is a slow process I found and that growth comes in spurts. As a young Christian my experience I lacked humility, I began to have head knowledge, but lacked the ability to apply God's word effectively. This kind of knowledge can puff up and it did.
I'm not sure if I remember all of my Christian experience, but yes I remember a lot of it.
One thing I have come to know and trust is God as my teacher, guide, help and so much more. How is it though that we hear God? In my life much of that hearing comes from God's own words that he reveals to me. God gives understanding, understanding being so much different from simple knowledge.
I acknowledge that it is God that has led me to him, that it is God that has given me understanding, that it is God who is producing the change within me. My flesh does fight that change from time to time, but the Spirit with in me helps and guides me that while I may or may not stumble God sees that I get to the other side of trials and troubles.
In me, I recognize that it is not I that choose, but the Holy Spirit that leads. God draws me to him.
Sorry, if I'm breaking up your post, but you presented a lot of material. I'll get to the rest soon.
Now.....THAT is the perfect example of a Christian response to someone's insult.!!!
Am listening. Thank you for sharing, here lately been going through the books, and looking at them verse by verse, and trying to prayerfully understand what is being said, through the spirit to understand the things that are being spoke to them that day, and what is spiritual for us today.
To hear from God is like you said, to listen to what is being spoken in the bible.
Believe the bible is infallible of the promises of God and the Gospel of Christ Jesus Christ will never let you down.
Though believe the bible can be used randomly and not contextually and meanings get lost, and context gets lost and it doesn't help a person to be encourage them to stay steady and encouraged in the faith and trusting in God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the promises made.
You just said..................
"Though believe the bible can be used randomly and not contextually and meanings get lost, and context gets lost and it doesn't help a person to be encourage them to stay steady and encouraged in the faith and trusting in God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the promises made."
And that is exactly why YOU feel people here PICK on you and PUT YOU DOWN.
You see, we Christians here on this site feel just the opposite Matthew.
The Word of God should never be considered apart from the God of the Word. God did not reveal Himself in His Word so that we might treat the book as our greatest treasure. Instead, He gave us His book so we might know how to regard and worship Him as our greatest treasure – in Spirit and in truth. The reason God's Word is more desirable than gold and sweeter than honey is because through it God leads us to Himself, the One who is preeminently desirable and who alone is worthy of our adoration. A growing love for the Word of God should naturally lead us toward a growing love for the God of the Word.