Vote your conscience or vote your faith

Feb 10, 2015
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Siloam,

Ok, that was well stated, articulate, and a better take than my position. However; could you not say that your comment "... when the other side offers a solution that may not be to our specifications, but finds an alternate way of addressing concerns." is, in fact, finding a way towards the middle?

I do grant; however, that there are issues which really do not have a common point that is found in the middle. Off hand, I am thinking of something like abortion. This is a right or left position, with no equitable position in the middle (I think).

rtm3039
Yes, there are some binary choices (at least in a practical sense), but single issue voting allows an admitably important issue to override all other issues however import ant to a lesser degree.

Without claiming that this in fact the case, there could be an instance where voting for one person may promote the desired goal but be against many issues of strong but individually lesser importance.

Again, it is important to use ones vote with caution after considering many aspects.

And if ones brother searches his heart and comes down on the opposite side it dows not necessarily mean he does not serve the same Lord. He may weight the various issues differently.
 
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rtm3039

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Yes, there are some binary choices (at least in a practical sense), but single issue voting allows an admitably important issue to override all other issues however import ant to a lesser degree.

Without claiming that this in fact the case, there could be an instance where voting for one person may promote the desired goal but be against many issues of strong but individually lesser importance.

Again, it is important to use ones vote with caution after considering many aspects.

And if ones brother searches his heart and comes down on the opposite side it dows not necessarily mean he does not serve the same Lord. He may weight the various issues differently.
Siloam,

Yes. One issue that drove me insane this past general election were certain local (state) issues that included multiple non-correlated issues. The one that I recall the most was a proposition to allow people with a felony conviction the right to vote. This was, if I recall correctly, linked to another proposition to make it illegal to use a vapor cigarette, in public areas. Talk about oranges and bananas.

rtm3039
 

rtm3039

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Are you talking about referendums for single issues?
In those cases even the people belonging to parties vote with their conscience.
Well, not a referendum, but an amendment. As an example, below was one of them that addressed three different issues. It was either a YES or NO, regardless of your position on any one of the three. This was called "bundling" which has since been taken to court to prevent its use in the future:

Amendment 7, First Responder and Military Member Survivor Benefits; Public Colleges and Universities, would pull together three proposals, providing college tuition for the survivors of first responders and military members killed on duty, requiring university trustees to agree by a two-thirds super-majority to raise college fees (not including tuition) and establishing the state college system in the Florida Constitution. Universities are in the state Constitution, but state colleges (also known as community colleges) are not.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Siloam,

Ok, that was well stated, articulate, and a better take than my position. However; could you not say that your comment "... when the other side offers a solution that may not be to our specifications, but finds an alternate way of addressing concerns." is, in fact, finding a way towards the middle?

I do grant; however, that there are issues which really do not have a common point that is found in the middle. Off hand, I am thinking of something like abortion. This is a right or left position, with no equitable position in the middle (I think).

rtm3039
I am not much of a politician. I have always been someone who states the truth and lets the chips fall as they may.

As I have grow older I have become worse or some would say bolder so I have to fight the urge to say what I really think.

Many years ago when the Right to Life and abortion became popular political stances I was lead to do several sermons on the subject. Being aware of our sites restrictio0ns on certain subjects, I will try to word this in an acceptable manner.

Having said that I am going to remind us all of what God says in Proverbs 24:10-12...……..
"If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?"


What does all that mean? IMO, it means that when troubles and trials come, we need to be as Stephen and stand up for what is right. If our faith is not strong enough to stand through a few trials, I would ask, where is our faith?

We as Christians MUST stand up against what is evil in the eyes of God! If God says that any action is sin/evil then it is and no amount of POLITACAL argument can make that act acceptable. It is wrong because God said that is is and that is end of the conversation!

However, POLITICS has allowed the truth of God's Word to be "Twisted/spun" to make what God condemns acceptable by a certain political party.

Example: (I just made this up)…….In the Book of George the Bible says...………...
"people with ugly feet can not wear open toed shoes."

But POLITICAL party #3 says that they want everyone to be able to wear open towed shoes because it is not "FAIR" to exclude those who have ugly feet.
They make that a platform of their party and insist that everyone in their party vote no matter there Christian understanding. They also argue that it is judgmental and exclusive.

Then POLITICAL party #5 says ......Wait a minute. There is a reason why we do not want this to happen and the root of it is that GOD SAID ……...
"People with ugly feet can not wear open towed shoes".

Now on one hand the Christian who is a life long member of political party #3 is caught in a quandary. The Lord condemns an action that his political party wants him to vote for. What to do.....what to do?????

Is he actually caught in a no win situation?...………...NO HE IS NOT!

GOD SAID is the answer! If God condemns it we as Christians must do so as well.

Proverbs 24:12...……..
"If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider [it]? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth [not] he know [it]? and shall [not] he render to [every] man according to his works?"


You cannot say, "I don't know about it." You see, it is no good to tell a lie to God. God looks into your heart and knows that you have the opportunity to help. God is the One who knows the truth about the motives of the heart and the excuses for failing to do what is right.

If it is in your power to help and you don't help someone in desperate need, God will not hold you blameless. God knows the intents of your heart.

You will receive the same type of treatment from God that you have given your vote to.

This right here answers any question about who to vote for. If you vote for a person who say that he is in favor of executing all people over the age of 75 because they are a drain on the economy and he is elected, YOU then will be held just as guilty as the Person you voted for and YOU will be judged guilty just as the person you voted for.

WHY. Because God said so in Exodus 20:13...…...
"THOU SHALT NOT KILL"!
 
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rtm3039

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I am not much of a politician. I have always been someone who states the truth and lets the chips fall as they may.

As I have grow older I have become worse or some would say bolder so I have to fight the urge to say what I really think.

Many years ago when the Right to Life and abortion became popular political stances I was lead to do several sermons on the subject. Being aware of our sites restrictio0ns on certain subjects, I will try to word this in an acceptable manner.

Having said that I am going to remind us all of what God says in Proverbs 24:10-12...……..
"If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?"


What does all that mean? IMO, it means that when troubles and trials come, we need to be as Stephen and stand up for what is right. If our faith is not strong enough to stand through a few trials, I would ask, where is our faith?

We as Christians MUST stand up against what is evil in the eyes of God! If God says that any action is sin/evil then it is and no amount of POLITACAL argument can make that act acceptable. It is wrong because God said that is is and that is end of the conversation!

However, POLITICS has allowed the truth of God's Word to be "Twisted/spun" to make what God condemns acceptable by a certain political party.

Example: (I just made this up)…….In the Book of George the Bible says...………...
"people with ugly feet can not wear open toed shoes."

But POLITICAL party #3 says that they want everyone to be able to wear open towed shoes because it is not "FAIR" to exclude those who have ugly feet.
They make that a platform of their party and insist that everyone in their party vote no matter there Christian understanding. They also argue that it is judgmental and exclusive.

Then POLITICAL party #5 says ......Wait a minute. There is a reason why we do not want this to happen and the root of it is that GOD SAID ……...
"People with ugly feet can not wear open towed shoes".

Now on one hand the Christian who is a life long member of political party #3 is caught in a quandary. The Lord condemns an action that his political party wants him to vote for. What to do.....what to do?????

Is he actually caught in a no win situation?...………...NO HE IS NOT!

GOD SAID is the answer! If God condemns it we as Christians must do so as well.

Proverbs 24:12...……..
"If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider [it]? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth [not] he know [it]? and shall [not] he render to [every] man according to his works?"


You cannot say, "I don't know about it." You see, it is no good to tell a lie to God. God looks into your heart and knows that you have the opportunity to help. God is the One who knows the truth about the motives of the heart and the excuses for failing to do what is right.

If it is in your power to help and you don't help someone in desperate need, God will not hold you blameless. God knows the intents of your heart.

You will receive the same type of treatment from God that you have given your vote to.

This right here answers any question about who to vote for. If you vote for a person who say that he is in favor of executing all people over the age of 75 because they are a drain on the economy and he is elected, YOU then will be held just as guilty as the Person you voted for and YOU will be judged guilty just as the person you voted for.

WHY. Because God said so in Exodus 20:13...…...
"THOU SHALT NOT KILL"!
Major, you do good work my friend.

OK, all into the not wearing open toed shoe. Tryst me, no one wants to look at my toes. I don't want to look at them, and they are attached to me.

Politically, you are almost better off just not casting a vote. It is practically impossible to have a candidate that would hold all Christian views consistently. Say we have a candidate that believes people with ugly feet should not wear open toed shoes, because this is God's will. On the other hand, this same candidate believes that anyone that operates a vehicle without a license should be arrested and, if not from the US, sent back to his/her country. (sorry cold not come up with a better example).

rtm3039
 
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Feb 10, 2015
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I am not much of a politician. I have always been someone who states the truth and lets the chips fall as they may.

As I have grow older I have become worse or some would say bolder so I have to fight the urge to say what I really think.

Many years ago when the Right to Life and abortion became popular political stances I was lead to do several sermons on the subject. Being aware of our sites restrictio0ns on certain subjects, I will try to word this in an acceptable manner.

Having said that I am going to remind us all of what God says in Proverbs 24:10-12...……..
"If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?"


What does all that mean? IMO, it means that when troubles and trials come, we need to be as Stephen and stand up for what is right. If our faith is not strong enough to stand through a few trials, I would ask, where is our faith?

We as Christians MUST stand up against what is evil in the eyes of God! If God says that any action is sin/evil then it is and no amount of POLITACAL argument can make that act acceptable. It is wrong because God said that is is and that is end of the conversation!

However, POLITICS has allowed the truth of God's Word to be "Twisted/spun" to make what God condemns acceptable by a certain political party.

Example: (I just made this up)…….In the Book of George the Bible says...………...
"people with ugly feet can not wear open toed shoes."

But POLITICAL party #3 says that they want everyone to be able to wear open towed shoes because it is not "FAIR" to exclude those who have ugly feet.
They make that a platform of their party and insist that everyone in their party vote no matter there Christian understanding. They also argue that it is judgmental and exclusive.

Then POLITICAL party #5 says ......Wait a minute. There is a reason why we do not want this to happen and the root of it is that GOD SAID ……...
"People with ugly feet can not wear open towed shoes".

Now on one hand the Christian who is a life long member of political party #3 is caught in a quandary. The Lord condemns an action that his political party wants him to vote for. What to do.....what to do?????

Is he actually caught in a no win situation?...………...NO HE IS NOT!

GOD SAID is the answer! If God condemns it we as Christians must do so as well.

Proverbs 24:12...……..
"If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider [it]? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth [not] he know [it]? and shall [not] he render to [every] man according to his works?"


You cannot say, "I don't know about it." You see, it is no good to tell a lie to God. God looks into your heart and knows that you have the opportunity to help. God is the One who knows the truth about the motives of the heart and the excuses for failing to do what is right.

If it is in your power to help and you don't help someone in desperate need, God will not hold you blameless. God knows the intents of your heart.

You will receive the same type of treatment from God that you have given your vote to.

This right here answers any question about who to vote for. If you vote for a person who say that he is in favor of executing all people over the age of 75 because they are a drain on the economy and he is elected, YOU then will be held just as guilty as the Person you voted for and YOU will be judged guilty just as the person you voted for.

WHY. Because God said so in Exodus 20:13...…...
"THOU SHALT NOT KILL"!
Yes, abortion practices cause me great sorrow for us as a people, as well as the little ones. If, when I decide to support and cast vote for or not support nor cast vote for a particular party or candidate then that practice could be forever eliminated, there would be little that could be great enough to counterbalance against that decision. But I don’t think that is currently the case. I will continue to pray and speak against abortion whenever appropriate, but I don’t see that very likely very soon.

So I will use my vote to try to move the needle on issues that may still be undecided.

I did not wish to get into specifics about the issues of the day, but I will present an issue that has been on my heart and in the news of late.

The Sermon on the Mount declares that those that are in need will be comforted. We should strive to see that we are instruments of the Lord to bring His blessings to those in need.

Look at our southern border, there are those that need trying desperately to come. We can strive to help them be assimilated into our society, but we talk about building walls to keep them out.

Compare that to the words of our Lord:
Matthew 25:41-46
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
 
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rtm3039

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Miami, FL
Yes, abortion practices cause me great sorrow for us as a people, as well as the little ones. If, when I decide to support and cast vote for or not support nor cast vote for a particular party or candidate then that practice could be forever eliminated, there would be little that could be great enough to counterbalance against that decision. But I don’t think that is currently the case. I will continue to pray and speak against abortion whenever appropriate, but I don’t see that very likely very soon.

So I will use my vote to try to move the needle on issues that may still be undecided.

I did not wish to get into specifics about the issues of the day, but I will present an issue that has been on my heart and in the news of late.

The Sermon on the Mount declares that those that are in need will be comforted. We should strive to see that we are instruments of the Lord to bring His blessings to those in need.

Look at our southern border, there are those that need trying desperately to come. We can strive to help them be assimilated into our society, but we talk about building walls to keep them out.

Compare that to the words of our Lord:
Matthew 25:41-46
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Siloam, this is an issue that almost everyone has a position on and one that has valid arguments on both sides.

I'll say this, I am an immigrant. Came from Cuba, so we had legal status from the start. Now, I understand that entering this country undocumented is a crime (actually, most enter legally and overstay their VISAs) and that certain social assistance is provided to those at the expense of others who are here legally.

Personally, I have never been an advocate of borders, because I think everyone has a right to live where they want. However, this is 2019 and I know that there are security matters that must be taken under consideration. I do not like the idea of little kits being taken from their parents, nor do I like the idea what people here illegally get to break other laws and we expect nothing to happen.

I've never liked the word "assimilated," because it reminds me of the Borg. I am from, and live in, Miami, FL. Had immigrants assimilated to the US culture, I am not sure south Florida would be what it is. If nothing else, Miami would only have one restaurant. Maybe "merging" is a better target than assimilate?

I guess this is another problem I have no answer to. Well, aside from agreeing that Christianity should be available to all, regardless of skin color, place of origin, or language spoken.

rtm3039
 
Dec 19, 2014
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I am not much of a politician. I have always been someone who states the truth and lets the chips fall as they may.

As I have grow older I have become worse or some would say bolder so I have to fight the urge to say what I really think.

Many years ago when the Right to Life and abortion became popular political stances I was lead to do several sermons on the subject. Being aware of our sites restrictio0ns on certain subjects, I will try to word this in an acceptable manner.

Having said that I am going to remind us all of what God says in Proverbs 24:10-12...……..
"If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?"


What does all that mean? IMO, it means that when troubles and trials come, we need to be as Stephen and stand up for what is right. If our faith is not strong enough to stand through a few trials, I would ask, where is our faith?

We as Christians MUST stand up against what is evil in the eyes of God! If God says that any action is sin/evil then it is and no amount of POLITACAL argument can make that act acceptable. It is wrong because God said that is is and that is end of the conversation!

However, POLITICS has allowed the truth of God's Word to be "Twisted/spun" to make what God condemns acceptable by a certain political party.

Example: (I just made this up)…….In the Book of George the Bible says...………...
"people with ugly feet can not wear open toed shoes."

But POLITICAL party #3 says that they want everyone to be able to wear open towed shoes because it is not "FAIR" to exclude those who have ugly feet.
They make that a platform of their party and insist that everyone in their party vote no matter there Christian understanding. They also argue that it is judgmental and exclusive.

Then POLITICAL party #5 says ......Wait a minute. There is a reason why we do not want this to happen and the root of it is that GOD SAID ……...
"People with ugly feet can not wear open towed shoes".

Now on one hand the Christian who is a life long member of political party #3 is caught in a quandary. The Lord condemns an action that his political party wants him to vote for. What to do.....what to do?????

Is he actually caught in a no win situation?...………...NO HE IS NOT!

GOD SAID is the answer! If God condemns it we as Christians must do so as well.

Proverbs 24:12...……..
"If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider [it]? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth [not] he know [it]? and shall [not] he render to [every] man according to his works?"


You cannot say, "I don't know about it." You see, it is no good to tell a lie to God. God looks into your heart and knows that you have the opportunity to help. God is the One who knows the truth about the motives of the heart and the excuses for failing to do what is right.

If it is in your power to help and you don't help someone in desperate need, God will not hold you blameless. God knows the intents of your heart.

You will receive the same type of treatment from God that you have given your vote to.

This right here answers any question about who to vote for. If you vote for a person who say that he is in favor of executing all people over the age of 75 because they are a drain on the economy and he is elected, YOU then will be held just as guilty as the Person you voted for and YOU will be judged guilty just as the person you voted for.

WHY. Because God said so in Exodus 20:13...…...
"THOU SHALT NOT KILL"!
I just want to touch on one thing here....are you or any christians here lifelong members of political parties?

I would think you would only be so if you were actually running for office, but as far as I know most people arent members. I do know one christian politician who is a member of the church I go to, he is an MP, so maybe he is one of htse lifelong members? but that doesnt mean the opposing party is non christian as there would be christians in both parties. (I havent fully investigated this though) . Also politicans are kniwn to change sides sometimes. Depending on who is in power. Or even be independent.

As politicans make the policy and change the laws,you need to be careful that these laws being changed reflect what God says because He actually makes the rules governing all mankind.

The only thing though is external rules cant change a mans heart. They are but a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Even if all the rules are silly and petty we need to abide by them even if they become a burden and onerous (ie. health and safety regulations) unless the rules are so stupid then we need to obey God rather than man.
 

rtm3039

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Feb 5, 2019
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Miami, FL
I just want to touch on one thing here....are you or any christians here lifelong members of political parties?

I would think you would only be so if you were actually running for office, but as far as I know most people arent members. I do know one christian politician who is a member of the church I go to, he is an MP, so maybe he is one of htse lifelong members? but that doesnt mean the opposing party is non christian as there would be christians in both parties. (I havent fully investigated this though) . Also politicans are kniwn to change sides sometimes. Depending on who is in power. Or even be independent.

As politicans make the policy and change the laws,you need to be careful that these laws being changed reflect what God says because He actually makes the rules governing all mankind.

The only thing though is external rules cant change a mans heart. They are but a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Even if all the rules are silly and petty we need to abide by them even if they become a burden and onerous (ie. health and safety regulations) unless the rules are so stupid then we need to obey God rather than man.
Hi Lanolin,

I am having problems following your remarks. I can only speak for myself, but most Americans are members of either the Republican party, the Democratic party, or Independent of either party. Most of us are "life long" members, taking into account you have to be 18 to register and vote.

rtm3039
 
Dec 19, 2014
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2,431
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www.literatelibrarian.com
Hi Lanolin,

I am having problems following your remarks. I can only speak for myself, but most Americans are members of either the Republican party, the Democratic party, or Independent of either party. Most of us are "life long" members, taking into account you have to be 18 to register and vote.

rtm3039
Really? Strange. Cant you just be non partisan. Voting in my country doesnt mean you have to vote for one all the time, you can actually change your mind in the next election, even vote for two different parties at once. We have two votes, a candidate vote and a party vote. The systems is called MMP. You can look it up to see how it works I dont have the time to explain.

It used to be FPP years ago but it changed because there were more than 2 main parties.

In communist countries,theres just the one party. You have no choice lol. I would argue that sometimes local government acts like a communist party as whoever you vote for doesnt make a difference. They all the same!
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
Yes, abortion practices cause me great sorrow for us as a people, as well as the little ones. If, when I decide to support and cast vote for or not support nor cast vote for a particular party or candidate then that practice could be forever eliminated, there would be little that could be great enough to counterbalance against that decision. But I don’t think that is currently the case. I will continue to pray and speak against abortion whenever appropriate, but I don’t see that very likely very soon.

So I will use my vote to try to move the needle on issues that may still be undecided.

I did not wish to get into specifics about the issues of the day, but I will present an issue that has been on my heart and in the news of late.

The Sermon on the Mount declares that those that are in need will be comforted. We should strive to see that we are instruments of the Lord to bring His blessings to those in need.

Look at our southern border, there are those that need trying desperately to come. We can strive to help them be assimilated into our society, but we talk about building walls to keep them out.

Compare that to the words of our Lord:
Matthew 25:41-46
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
That is a really complex issue that requires a lot more expertise than I have.

I know it is a concern for many, but if we open the borders what does that say to those who came into our country the right/LEGAL way????

From what I understand, we are not keeping out those who want to come into the country the way the law requires them to.

Another thought my friend is "Security". We live in a complex world. People from different countries attack and kill women and children and if we open the borders with no control at all, how long do you think that it would be before a terrorist attack would take place??????

The Scriptures also say to us that if we do not care our families we are less than an infidel.



Is there another county in the world that allows people to come into their country by just walking over a line in the sand???
 
Last edited:
Sep 3, 2009
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Major, you do good work my friend.

OK, all into the not wearing open toed shoe. Tryst me, no one wants to look at my toes. I don't want to look at them, and they are attached to me.

Politically, you are almost better off just not casting a vote. It is practically impossible to have a candidate that would hold all Christian views consistently. Say we have a candidate that believes people with ugly feet should not wear open toed shoes, because this is God's will. On the other hand, this same candidate believes that anyone that operates a vehicle without a license should be arrested and, if not from the US, sent back to his/her country. (sorry cold not come up with a better example).

rtm3039
Yes sir. That is why it is so very important to know what the person you vote for actually says and believes.

No matter how you slice it and dice it...…...if a person says that he is for womens rights to have an abortion and you vote for him, then you are just as guility as is that person.

And NO, I did not say that. God did as I posted in Proverbs 24:12.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Hi Lanolin,

I am having problems following your remarks. I can only speak for myself, but most Americans are members of either the Republican party, the Democratic party, or Independent of either party. Most of us are "life long" members, taking into account you have to be 18 to register and vote.

rtm3039
Really?

Amen!
 
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Apr 13, 2019
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REPLY TO ALL:

I am not ignoring you, I am merely waiting for the emotions to settle. It is very human to assume that whatever you already believe is a law of the universe. We often see people write things and cite a veerse of scripture to support their position, and the scripture says the exact opposite. I have met ministers who could not read the scriptures the way the were written because their denomination taught something different. I sometimes say things that come from a word study ("rod" for instance) and people have never been exposed to a word study.

Earlier in this thread I said "But God does not send political candidates. After all, God commanded His people to have no king, and no laws in the land outside walled cities. So you are going against God's will right from the start." Some people can't understand my point because they never understood that Satan is the god of this world and the God of rightness does not overstep Satan's dominion. Some people think God is all-powerful, and He is not. The bible mentions several things God can't do and there are lots of things He can't or won't do because it would not be right.

So when we reach this point of total lack of understanding there is little that I can do other than say something nice and leave you alone until you study some more and God gives you understanding. I am not a gifted teacher so I can't do it myself.

I am sorry for my failure, but there it is.
 
Feb 10, 2015
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That is a really complex issue that requires a lot more expertise than I have.

I know it is a concern for many, but if we open the borders what does that say to those who came into our country the right/LEGAL way????

From what I understand, we are not keeping out those who want to come into the country the way the law requires them to.

Another thought my friend is "Security". We live in a complex world. People from different countries attack and kill women and children and if we open the borders with no control at all, how long do you think that it would be before a terrorist attack would take place??????

The Scriptures also say to us that if we do not care our families we are less than an infidel.



Is there another county in the world that allows people to come into their country by just walking over a line in the sand???
These are complex issues and each issue is one of a large number of interrelated issues.

This is my point regarding not assumeing that a brother that comes down on the 'other' side must not be comitted to the same Lord.
 
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Dec 19, 2014
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www.literatelibrarian.com
These are complex issues and each issue is one of a large number of interrelated issues.

This is my point regarding not assumeing that a brother that comes down on the 'other' side must not be comitted to the same Lord.
Too complex for me and again, another topic where people from different countries wont have the same experience why because different countries obviously have different laws. And each party will adhere to a set of values, but that doesnt mean one will be christian and one wont. And even the so called christian parties arent always christian!

I mean even in the microcosm schools, I make the rules of the library right but that doesnt mean all the rules will be exactly the same in every single library...and every teacher will have the exact same rules for their class. For a school they may have overarching rules.

But even those rules arent the same for every school!

So who do we look to...even Gods laws cant be the same for everyone because God only specified laws for his chosen people the Israelites. They couldnt follow them they failed time and time again.

So that leaves us with Jesus writing these laws on our hearts. Thats the only way. And that is to do with both our faith and conscience for nobody can tell you them the holy spirit has to convict you of them. Then you will know what is right and wrong to do.
 

rtm3039

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REPLY TO ALL:

I am not ignoring you, I am merely waiting for the emotions to settle. It is very human to assume that whatever you already believe is a law of the universe. We often see people write things and cite a veerse of scripture to support their position, and the scripture says the exact opposite. I have met ministers who could not read the scriptures the way the were written because their denomination taught something different. I sometimes say things that come from a word study ("rod" for instance) and people have never been exposed to a word study.

Earlier in this thread I said "But God does not send political candidates. After all, God commanded His people to have no king, and no laws in the land outside walled cities. So you are going against God's will right from the start." Some people can't understand my point because they never understood that Satan is the god of this world and the God of rightness does not overstep Satan's dominion. Some people think God is all-powerful, and He is not. The bible mentions several things God can't do and there are lots of things He can't or won't do because it would not be right.

So when we reach this point of total lack of understanding there is little that I can do other than say something nice and leave you alone until you study some more and God gives you understanding. I am not a gifted teacher so I can't do it myself.

I am sorry for my failure, but there it is.
Saul Mine, I for one appreciate your willingness to put your understanding out in public. No one is above learning something new. Grant you, your comments are occasionally a bit "harsh," but I get it. Well, maybe I should replace "harsh" with "to the point?"I find your comment "The bible mentions several things God can't do and there are lots of things He can't or won't do because it would not be right" interesting. It is a case that there are things God "can't do" or that he "will not do?"

rtm3039
 
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The key is not so much running toward the middle as it is having our politicians become statesmen that can forge equitable agreements and recognise when the other side offers a solution that may not be to our specifications, but finds an alternate way of addressing concerns.
I agree that this is key. It is not so much where they are labeled to stand but what they do with matters at hand and, of course, how they do it. The best build bridges and not trenches for political warfare.
 

rtm3039

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I agree that this is key. It is not so much where they are labeled to stand but what they do with matters at hand and, of course, how they do it. The best build bridges and not trenches for political warfare.
I agree, sandpiper, but I just to not see politicians moving away from their party. Granted, this does happen, but not very often and usually at the peril of those that reach across the political isle.

rtm309