Wages Of Sin?

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#1
In my state, the penalty for driving w/o a seatbelt is $25.00.
Can $20 satisfy the demands of the law? What about $23? Or $24?

Ok, now that we're all on the same page..
QUESTION: If the penalty for sin is eternal torment, how can anything less than a payment of eternal torment by Jesus on behalf of us, in order that we might go free, satisfy the demands of the law?
In other words, if the wages of sin is a never ending Lake of Fire, wouldn't the only way that Jesus could take OUR place, take OUR punishment upon Himself, and pay OUR debt for sin is to go - instead of us - and remain in that never ending lake of fire?

If we lay aside preconceived notions for a moment and just be honest, then we have to admit that the answer is, "Yes, Jesus would have to be eternally tormented in our place to pay the penalty of Eternal Torment that we brought upon ourselves by committing sin."

But, nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus did that. What does the Bible say is the penalty for sin? DEATH. Not eternal torment. DEATH. Which is by definition "the cessation of life." Annihilation. Extinction of being. Period. When Jesus paid our penalty of sin on the cross, He did not suffer Eternal Torment, He suffered DEATH.
Therefore, the penalty for sin cannot be Eternal Torment.

The Bible speaks of the destruction of Satan and sinners:
"All they that know thee (Satan) among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and NEVER SHALT THOU BE ANYMORE." Ezekiel 28:19

"For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall BE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NOT BEEN." Obadiah 16

Satan and his followers are simply not going to "BE", or "EXIST" anymore. Praise God that He is not the sadistic, tyrant of cruelty beyond measure that Satan, the cruelest of all, has deceived so many into believing that God is. "If ye have seen Me, ye have seen the Father." - Jesus
 
#2
In my state, the penalty for driving w/o a seatbelt is $25.00.
Can $20 satisfy the demands of the law? What about $23? Or $24?

Ok, now that we're all on the same page..
QUESTION: If the penalty for sin is eternal torment, how can anything less than a payment of eternal torment by Jesus on behalf of us, in order that we might go free, satisfy the demands of the law?
In other words, if the wages of sin is a never ending Lake of Fire, wouldn't the only way that Jesus could take OUR place, take OUR punishment upon Himself, and pay OUR debt for sin is to go - instead of us - and remain in that never ending lake of fire?

If we lay aside preconceived notions for a moment and just be honest, then we have to admit that the answer is, "Yes, Jesus would have to be eternally tormented in our place to pay the penalty of Eternal Torment that we brought upon ourselves by committing sin."

But, nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus did that. What does the Bible say is the penalty for sin? DEATH. Not eternal torment. DEATH. Which is by definition "the cessation of life." Annihilation. Extinction of being. Period. When Jesus paid our penalty of sin on the cross, He did not suffer Eternal Torment, He suffered DEATH.
Therefore, the penalty for sin cannot be Eternal Torment.

The Bible speaks of the destruction of Satan and sinners:
"All they that know thee (Satan) among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and NEVER SHALT THOU BE ANYMORE." Ezekiel 28:19

"For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall BE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NOT BEEN." Obadiah 16

Satan and his followers are simply not going to "BE", or "EXIST" anymore. Praise God that He is not the sadistic, tyrant of cruelty beyond measure that Satan, the cruelest of all, has deceived so many into believing that God is. "If ye have seen Me, ye have seen the Father." - Jesus
This has been beat to death already. Mods locked that thread so let's not start this again
 
#3
Revelation 14:11 (NLT)
The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name.”
 
#8
"Aion" means duration with or without end, not eternal. The adjective "Aionios" means "pertaining to Aion", also not eternal. Honest scholars admit this. Moreover, try paying half on your next traffic fine and see how far you get. :)
 
#9
"Aion" means duration with or without end, not eternal. The adjective "Aionios" means "pertaining to Aion", also not eternal. Honest scholars admit this. Moreover, try paying half on your next traffic fine and see how far you get. :)
Dude let it go. If you seen my post you will know the conversation was locked because it didn't get anywhere. Just from that info as a Christian you wouldn't want to have this conversation to fall into the same chaos.
 
#10
In other words, if the wages of sin is a never ending Lake of Fire, wouldn't the only way that Jesus could take OUR place, take OUR punishment upon Himself, and pay OUR debt for sin is to go - instead of us - and remain in that never ending lake of fire?

If we lay aside preconceived notions for a moment and just be honest, then we have to admit that the answer is, "Yes, Jesus would have to be eternally tormented in our place to pay the penalty of Eternal Torment that we brought upon ourselves by committing sin."
That statement is absolutely false. It attempts to put on par sinful man and the perfect Lamb without blemish. They are by no means equal.

My thinking on it is that man can never pay the debt for his own sins and that is why the torment is forever. Or that possibly eternal torment does pay the debt for a man's sins because otherwise it is possible one could think God unjust for not exacting justice.
 
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#12
Fellow Christian brothers, please explain how God allows Jesus' penalty of "less than eternal torment" payment to cover our penalty of "eternal torment". It just doesn't add up.
 
#14
There is an error in your thinking. Did you forget that death, and hell will be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever and forever? Rev 20:14
Jesus did not suffer eternally because it was not possible for a innocent man who never sinned to be holden to it. We deserve eternal death ,but not Jesus.

Act 2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.
Act 2:24 God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.
 
#15
Forever (Gr. Aionios) of course meaning "undefined, but NOT endless."
That same word αἰών 'aiōn' is used in many places, so does it also not mean endless or forever in Mat 6:13? "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."
 
#17
That statement is absolutely false. It attempts to put on par sinful man and the perfect Lamb without blemish. They are by no means equal.

My thinking on it is that man can never pay the debt for his own sins and that is why the torment is forever. Or that possibly eternal torment does pay the debt for a man's sins because otherwise it is possible one could think God unjust for not exacting justice.
Hi,

The Scriptures say that the Word became flesh, that is He is a man.
 
#18
In my state, the penalty for driving w/o a seatbelt is $25.00.
Can $20 satisfy the demands of the law? What about $23? Or $24?

Ok, now that we're all on the same page..
QUESTION: If the penalty for sin is eternal torment, how can anything less than a payment of eternal torment by Jesus on behalf of us, in order that we might go free, satisfy the demands of the law?
In other words, if the wages of sin is a never ending Lake of Fire, wouldn't the only way that Jesus could take OUR place, take OUR punishment upon Himself, and pay OUR debt for sin is to go - instead of us - and remain in that never ending lake of fire?

If we lay aside preconceived notions for a moment and just be honest, then we have to admit that the answer is, "Yes, Jesus would have to be eternally tormented in our place to pay the penalty of Eternal Torment that we brought upon ourselves by committing sin."

But, nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus did that. What does the Bible say is the penalty for sin? DEATH. Not eternal torment. DEATH. Which is by definition "the cessation of life." Annihilation. Extinction of being. Period. When Jesus paid our penalty of sin on the cross, He did not suffer Eternal Torment, He suffered DEATH.
Therefore, the penalty for sin cannot be Eternal Torment.

The Bible speaks of the destruction of Satan and sinners:
"All they that know thee (Satan) among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and NEVER SHALT THOU BE ANYMORE." Ezekiel 28:19

"For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall BE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NOT BEEN." Obadiah 16

Satan and his followers are simply not going to "BE", or "EXIST" anymore. Praise God that He is not the sadistic, tyrant of cruelty beyond measure that Satan, the cruelest of all, has deceived so many into believing that God is. "If ye have seen Me, ye have seen the Father." - Jesus

I agree that the wages of sin is death and that the wicked will cease to exist. However, In your analogy you said if the penalty for sin is eternal torment Jesus would need to suffer for eternity. The Scripture say that Jesus gave His soul as a ransom. If death is the penalty for sin and Jesus died to pay that penalty then man shouldn't die, yet he does. Believe and not believer alike die. This is one of the major problems with Penal substitution. I don't believe the idea that Jesus paid a sin debt to God is Biblical.
 
#19
Fellow Christian brothers, please explain how God allows Jesus' penalty of "less than eternal torment" payment to cover our penalty of "eternal torment". It just doesn't add up.
We just had a long discussion on this topic on another board. It was very productive as long as every stays civil. I believe this is a topic that all Christians should consider because I believe it does make quite a few unbelievers reject Christianity and Christ. Many unbelievers reject the Christianity because they don't see how God can be just and torture people. I believe they are correct. However, I would submit that God doesn't torture people. He is honest, when He says the soul that sins shall die that is exactly what happens.
 
#20
No where in scripture will you find Jesus ever using a persons name in any parable. This was not a parable but an actual account of two people, who lived and died and the consequences of their lives.

Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

I don't see any inhalation here except torment by which the rich man made bad choices in his life, and because of these bad choices he was being tormented by his own conscience knowing he should have done what was right.
 
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