Was Job Real?
- Thread starter Apologia
- Start date
Job 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.
so who is writing, and HOW MANY YEARS later was the story told ???
I could write about Abraham like this ..
There was a man in the land of Ur whose name was Abraham; etc ..
does that prove that I wrote it while Ur was still called Ur ???
There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.
so who is writing, and HOW MANY YEARS later was the story told ???
I could write about Abraham like this ..
There was a man in the land of Ur whose name was Abraham; etc ..
does that prove that I wrote it while Ur was still called Ur ???
what I think holds weight, is the DETAILED explanation about satan speaking to God .. only the greatest prophets ever did that .. perhaps even Ezekiel penned it and then brought it up in Eze chapter 14 ..
Job 1:1 There was a man .. (as in once existed) .. perhaps your scholars missed the first four words .. and more importantly WHO was this story related to .. so WHO did God make privy to the convo between satan and God ???
also if you read the names given: Noah, Daniel and Job ..
if Job lived halfway between the two, then he would have lived at the beginning of the judges period .. the choice of Job (over say Abraham) suggests to me that Noah was the new beginning, Daniel was the most current .. and the choice of Job represented the halfway mark between them ..
Job 1:1 There was a man .. (as in once existed) .. perhaps your scholars missed the first four words .. and more importantly WHO was this story related to .. so WHO did God make privy to the convo between satan and God ???
also if you read the names given: Noah, Daniel and Job ..
if Job lived halfway between the two, then he would have lived at the beginning of the judges period .. the choice of Job (over say Abraham) suggests to me that Noah was the new beginning, Daniel was the most current .. and the choice of Job represented the halfway mark between them ..
Last edited:
Nope. You have made an adversary where there is no need. That is off the rails, friend.
My peers are far above Wiki contributors...thank God.
LOL!
what is "off the rails" is you saying you are my adversary ..
if they were your peers .. then you would be academic, not problematic in your approach ..
do you realize how much that sounds like the Pharisee in Luk 18:11 ???
I'm all that .. thank God ..
Luk 18:14
“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Last edited:
I guess it is kinda funny ..
but what is funnier, is you yourself, have made not one point that remotely resembles any substantiation for your "assimilated scant-plausibility opinion"
Why would Moses have written about the book of Job? He probably did not even know about it. But that does not mean it was not already written. The logic simply does not follow (which is the case with most conclusions reached by the Critical School scholars). The book of Job (even if already extant) may not have been known to the Israelites and then gathered much later (by God's engineering of circumstance) but being gathered in later ALSO does not mean written at that time
OR it could have been written ANYTIME AFTER Moses died ..
OR it could have been written by Elijah ..
OR ...
ALL HAVE EQUAL PLAUSIBILITY ..
the early scenario has ZERO substantiation shown however ..
Last edited:
as to the logic on that particular point ..
EVERY old book is mentioned in another book .. including 2 books we may not seem to have ..
Book of the Wars of the LORD ..
(The War Scroll & The War Rule - both found in Qumran)
Num 21:14 Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD, "Waheb in Suphah, And the wadis of the Arnon,
Book of Jasher ..
(?)
Jos 10:13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.
2Sa 1:18 and he told them to teach the sons of Judah the song of the bow; behold, it is written in the book of Jashar.
Book of the Acts of Solomon ..
(First & Second Kings ?)
1Ki 11:41 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon and whatever he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon?
Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel ..
(First Samuel ?)
1Ki 14:19 Now the rest of the acts of Jeroboam, how he made war and how he reigned, behold, they are written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.
Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah ..
(Second Samuel ?)
1Ki 14:29 Now the rest of the acts of Rehoboam and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah?
Book of Remembrance ..
(?)
Mal 3:16 Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who esteem His name.
EVERY old book is mentioned in another book .. including 2 books we may not seem to have ..
Book of the Wars of the LORD ..
(The War Scroll & The War Rule - both found in Qumran)
Num 21:14 Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD, "Waheb in Suphah, And the wadis of the Arnon,
Book of Jasher ..
(?)
Jos 10:13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.
2Sa 1:18 and he told them to teach the sons of Judah the song of the bow; behold, it is written in the book of Jashar.
Book of the Acts of Solomon ..
(First & Second Kings ?)
1Ki 11:41 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon and whatever he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon?
Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel ..
(First Samuel ?)
1Ki 14:19 Now the rest of the acts of Jeroboam, how he made war and how he reigned, behold, they are written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.
Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah ..
(Second Samuel ?)
1Ki 14:29 Now the rest of the acts of Rehoboam and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah?
Book of Remembrance ..
(?)
Mal 3:16 Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who esteem His name.
True! They are all equally plausible. My point was there is zero substantiation for a late (1200 B.C. or later) "writing" date for the book (which is different from the date of inclusion)...for example the book of the generations of Adam or Noah and the stories of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were obviously extant before Moses wrote down the Torah (he may have even drawn from earlier writings as directed by God in combination with the direct revelations FROM God...we cannot know).
WHAT makes ANYONE consider a pre-Torah authoring is correct ???
I would love to hear the basis for that from the Critical School scholars ..
On the contrary I did not suggest that...they would in fact post-date EVERYTHING (they must do so in order to support their preconceived conclusions...like when they decide to declare ALL prophecy to be written after the fact). And there was plenty of "pre-Torah" authoring as you yourself indicated (Wars, Jasher, books of the generations, etc.)...
the HS gave me these verses to give you ..
Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, “Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
Exo 6:3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.
the Hebrew says ..
יְהֹוָה Yĕhovah
NOT Lord ..
Job 1:21 He said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD.”
the last word written is..
יְהֹוָה Yĕhovah
so Job knew God's name .. hence post-Torah !!!
Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, “Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
Exo 6:3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.
the Hebrew says ..
יְהֹוָה Yĕhovah
NOT Lord ..
Job 1:21 He said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD.”
the last word written is..
יְהֹוָה Yĕhovah
so Job knew God's name .. hence post-Torah !!!
Last edited:
The story of Job was not post-Torah.
actually not so ..
1st - what seems obvious to me, is Moses wrote the the generations down as dictated by God ..
2nd - a cepher can mean "a page" in what he is writing ..
or simply mean here is the register of generations ..
1) book
2) missive, document, writing, book
a) missive
1) letter (of instruction), written order, commission, request, written decree
b) legal document, certificate of divorce, deed of purchase, indictment, sign
c) book, scroll
1) book of prophecies
2) genealogical register
Gen 5:1 zeh cepher towledah 'Adam yowm 'elohiym bara' 'adam `asah demuwth 'elohiym
sure it was ..
so Job knew God's name before Moses' did ???
and God lied that he did not tell anyone before Moses ???
Last edited: