Was The Flood Story Copied From Babylonia?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ricko, you make it sound rather like 'man made beliefs' are just ideas dreamed up by some bored chap with nothing better to do. They are not beliefs as such, rather the best way to describe observable events. Of course if you choose to accept "and there is nothing new under the sun" then I doubt whether anything will persuade you to look at scientific advancements and thats your right.
By the way, you still didn't answer whether you believe the earth orbits the sun or the earth is the centre of the universe? Do you have an opinion on that?
 
I never ALL Scientific data was corrupt...I did mention " Global Warming" which is another way to fleece we " Sheep" for more taxes. Special Light Bulbs etc. I did say There is nothing new under the Sun, and really don' t think there is, unless your speaking about new political officials, or entertainers etc. There are other scriptures that expound on not really concerning ourselves with other things that God has full control over....Weather comes to mind especially. As far as what I believe on if the earth revolves around the sun, etc. My Question back to you is this: How is knowing the exact answer of this going to improve my chances of making heaven my final home? I mean is knowing the exact answer going to make me a better Christian..or being smarter in Worldly Knowledge??
 
Well I'm with you in global warming. There are so many schools of thought on that one that I find it hard to form an opinion to be truthful. Its certainly not a good representation of scientific theories in general.
Answering my question won't make you seem better or smarter or otherwise to me. You can ask me any question and I will truthfully answer it (as long as I have a formed opinion) and I expect others to do likewise. If you are bothered about answering or don't have a firm belief either way then fine, don't answer.
 
OK I was told, The planets revolve around the sun. Now if that is not correct don' t hold it against me, My 4th grade teacher taught us all that. And if that is correct..Hooray! If that is wrong...OK too! I just don' t focus a lot of attention on this stuff. My Talents lie in Sales, Marketing, and teaching the word of God...
 
That is absolutely correct, presumably you also believe what you were told by your 4th grade teacher Ricko?
I have great interest in the cosmos, trying to understand the scale and structure of the Universe is a great way to broaden the mind.
 
RiverJordan...I would like to weigh on a couple of points...

A lot of my brothers and sisters reject "evolution" emphatically because they have been misinformed. The fact that things change over time is really not the issue (everyone knows this) it is the how and why as described by Charles Darwin and the modern neo-Darwinians that they should be rejecting and protesting. When my body was conceived I was a zygote. Over time I became an Embryo, then a Fetus, then an infant, a toddler, into pubescence, and onto adulthood...now this tent is wearing thin and growing a little weakness showing wear and tear unto eventually when I part from it (it having served His purpose for me). This is change over time (evolution)...there were many factors...genetic, circumstantial (availability of food, exposure to elements, etc.,), behavioral (lifestyle and choices I made), spiritual, etc., all of which influenced my greater biological (natural) success or failure (called in EB "selection").

We know that breeding and interbreeding within species of a particular phyla is not only possible but happens by intention and by natural conditions and that these produce and or strengthens or weakens certain qualities and characteristics (such that from a few original pairs of dogs we have all the present variety). The same with humans...as we procreated from the original source pair(s), by gathering by preference, similarity of characteristics, the division by language into sub-groups, etc., eventually certain gene expressions were reinforced (like degrees of melanin) others were weakened. Now we are who we all are with all our variety. But as for members of one phyla actually eventually becoming entirely different phyla (like fish into amphibians, into reptiles, etc.,) has never (no not ever) been demonstrated to be true (simply an alternative way of interpreting the greater very general display pf evidence to fit the pre-conceived theory). The idea of the neo-Darwinian idea of natural selection is another unfounded pre-conceived conclusion imposed into our thinking by drill, repetition, and appeal to alleged authority. Likewise the concept of abiogenesis where living things "Evolved" from non-living things...is clearly an absurd assumption without one iota of proof or evidence yet it is swallowed whole by millions upon millions of inquiring minds. Our development as expressed in y first paragraph is a fact...these final three are fictional works of the imaginations of men that exalt themselves against truth and against Christ.

Luv'ya

brother Paul
 
Amens/Likes: lynn w
A great Movie You and every Christian needs to see is "Hubble". My wife and I saw this two years ago out at our Naval Air Station in their IMAX Movie theatre. The screen is about 9 stories high and about 9 stories wide. Anyway they have these type theaters across the U.S.

The Movie was shot several years ago when they were in space fixing and updating the Hubble Telescope. Then they show you all of God' s Wonderful creation in Space where Telescopes on earth cannot see. It will take your breath away looking at all that. I admit it brought tears to my eyes when I saw all that awesome unspeakable beauty. If you ever find out this movie is playing near you..Do yourself a favor and take your loved ones to see it..
 
Amens/Likes: lynn w
Yes, I've seen plenty of Hubble images and am always impressed. I've not seen it on an Imax though.

So, back to the earth/sun. I mention this particular fact (earth rotating sun that is) as it was one of the most famous clashes with the church as you know. Galieleo was under house arrest after his papers on this theory (at the time) as it contradicts several scripture.
I'm not questioning your faith but you can see how difficulties arise with science and will no doubt increase as we discover more. If you believe the bible is the word of God and cannot be challenged then you increasingly remove yourself from mainstream scientific understanding. Surely better to have a middle ground somewhere?
After all, Galileo was a religious chap but it didn't stop him asking questions.
 
Evolution is a theory, in fact there are six evolutionary theories and they all contradict one another. There is no evidence of evolution from macro to macro (fish to man) only micro to micro (stronger muscles in mountain goats than in plains goats). To believe the bible is to accept God's command to study. I love science, because it's our way of understanding God's creation. Scientists will eventually get there. The Scriptures say:

Proverbs 25:2 (KJV) [It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.

and

Proverbs 6:6 (KJV) Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise:

So man sees nature all around and wants to learn more about it: biology is born. Then they want to understand what moves all the "little" things of biology: microbiology is born. Then they developed means to see smaller objects: chemistry is born. When they find the atom and want to understand it: physics is born. When the means to see events occur at the subatomic level that doesn't fit: quantum physics is born. Up to this point, all these sciences have explained the "how" of what's around, but God put in us the insatiable curiosity of "why" and seeing the impossibility of these fields of study to explain it: metaphysics is born; the study of "being" and "thought".

Joy and gladness understood (Acts 14:17). Evolution cannot explain emotions. Matter and energy do not feel. Scripture explains that God places gladness in our hearts (Psalm 4:7), and ultimate joy is found only in our Creator’s presence – “in Your presence is fullness of joy” (Psalm 16:11). Evolution cannot explain which came first, the chicken or the egg. Forget the chicken and the egg... which came first, proteins or DNA? Chickens consist of proteins. The code for each protein is contained in the DNA/RNA system. However, proteins are required in order to manufacture DNA. So which came first: proteins or DNA? The ONLY explanation is that they were created together. The First Law states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy or matter may be converted into another, but the total quantity always remains the same. Therefore the creation is finished, exactly as God said way back in Genesis. Starting with the studies of Albert Einstein in the early 1900s and continuing today, science has confirmed the biblical view that the universe had a beginning. When the Bible was written most people believed the universe was eternal. Science has proven them wrong, but the Bible correct. The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is spherical. Noble behavior understood (John 15:13; Romans 5:7-8). The Bible and history reveal that countless people have endangered or even sacrificed their lives for another. This reality is completely at odds with Darwin’s theory of the survival of the fittest.

The Bible states that God created life according to kinds (Genesis 1:24). The fact that God distinguishes kinds, agrees with what scientists observe – namely that there are horizontal genetic boundaries beyond which life cannot vary. Life produces after its own kind. Dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, roses produce roses. Never have we witnessed one kind changing into another kind as evolution supposes. There are truly natural limits to biological change. Blood is the source of life and health (Leviticus 17:11; 14). Up until 120 years ago, sick people were “bled” and many died as a result (e.g. George Washington). Today we know that healthy blood is necessary to bring life-giving nutrients to every cell in the body. God declared that “the life of the flesh is in the blood” long before science understood its function. Beauty understood (Genesis 1:31; 2:9; Job 40:10; Ecclesiastes 3:11; Matthew 6:28-30). Beauty surrounds us: radiant sunsets, majestic mountains, brightly colored flowers, glowing gems, soothing foliage, brilliantly adorned birds, etc. Beauty is a mystery to the evolutionist. However, Scripture reveals that God creates beautiful things for our benefit and His glory.

Science is so far behind the word of God that if they'd accept God's word they'd be much further advanced.
 
Amens/Likes: lynn w
Fish to a man isn't strictly true, there were countless variations between. It's almost incomprehensible to a human because of the timescales involved (100's of millions of years). The fossil record so far supports this particular theory.

Not sure that saying science is so far behind the word of god...will convince me either. Give me an example (just the one please).
 
Ok, then why did it stop? Where's the millions of steps between fish and man? As for science, I gave you a bunch of examples of being behind the scriptures above.
 
It hasn't stopped, never will. There are plenty of fossil records but not for every single mutation. There were too many words in the previous post, sorry. Just take one please and we'll discuss that.
 
I'm sorry... I took two hours to write that and if it's too many words, with all do respect, I'll be moving on. If you wish to know the truth I can help, otherwise, I'm not out for a debate.
 
I'm sure it was all good reading but I prefer short and concise - short attention span! I do want the truth but the truth is always up for debate for me.
I'm sorry you don't want to discuss further.
 

HisManySongs

Administrator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Evolution is a fact. We see it happen all the time, right in front of us. The theory of evolution provides a framework that explains how evolution takes place (its mechanisms, pathways, etc.).

Just like gravity is a fact (we see it happen), and the theory of gravity seeks to explain how it happens.
Sorry, I can not see how a mechanism which relies on mutations to operate can account for the diversity we see.

What we see in front of us is the working out of the variety built into each species to allow it to survive.

BTW there is no theory of gravity, it's a law
 
I'm sure it was all good reading but I prefer short and concise - short attention span! I do want the truth but the truth is always up for debate for me.
I'm sorry you don't want to discuss further.
Well... answer this one question then: the scriptures we have today, are they correct in your opinion?
 
Well... answer this one question then: the scriptures we have today, are they correct in your opinion?
I'm no expert on scriptures, but from the little I do know they seem to be a bit vague. They also seem rather open to interpretation from what I see on this forum. But to answer your question, I don't believe they have any place in describing modern physics or science but I'm atheist so thats expected. They clearly have their role to play in many lives but I don't see how stories from thousands of years ago can compete with modern studies.
 
Evolution is a theory, in fact there are six evolutionary theories and they all contradict one another. There is no evidence of evolution from macro to macro (fish to man) only micro to micro (stronger muscles in mountain goats than in plains goats).
it's doubtful any primate could "de-evolve" and survive a mutation that simply deleted a pair of chromosomes .. or gain chromosomes and live ..
hence no link missing or otherwise ..

example: chimpanzees have 48 chromosomes, and humans have 46 chromosomes which are made up of organized packs of DNA and proteins ..

also there is no such thing as "micro-evolution" .. that is a made up disingenuous term for adaptation, gene mutation & genetic drift" which are natural occurrences within a specie .. to which none of have ever been shown to lead to evolution ..
 
Last edited:
I'm no expert on scriptures, but from the little I do know they seem to be a bit vague. They also seem rather open to interpretation from what I see on this forum. But to answer your question, I don't believe they have any place in describing modern physics or science but I'm atheist so thats expected. They clearly have their role to play in many lives but I don't see how stories from thousands of years ago can compete with modern studies.
just curious .. what was your motive to join a Christian forum ???
 
I'm no expert on scriptures, but from the little I do know they seem to be a bit vague. They also seem rather open to interpretation from what I see on this forum. But to answer your question, I don't believe they have any place in describing modern physics or science but I'm atheist so thats expected. They clearly have their role to play in many lives but I don't see how stories from thousands of years ago can compete with modern studies.
See if you had read my statement above you might be willing to reconsider. Since anything I say will come from the scriptures, then nothing I say can change your mind. But I leave you with this:

Evolution cannot explain which came first, the chicken or the egg. Forget the chicken and the egg... which came first, proteins or DNA? Chickens consist of proteins. The code for each protein is contained in the DNA/RNA system. However, proteins are required in order to manufacture DNA. So which came first: proteins or DNA? The ONLY explanation is that they were created together as God created them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.