RiverJordan
Inactive
That's just spamming (posting copy and pastes over and over and refusing to discuss them).
Was The Flood Story Copied From Babylonia?
- Thread starter RiverJordan
- Start date
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RiverJordan
Inactive
So ixoye, you must therefore believe in hyper-evolution post-flood, right?
interesting enough, we do have the The Epic of Atrahasis (Atrahasis = Noah) which is still engraved in stone ..
The Epic of Atrahasis is the fullest Mesopotamian account of the Great Flood. The text is known from several versions: two written by Assyrian scribes (one in the Assyrian, one in the Babylonian dialect), the third one (on three tablets) was written during the reign of king Ammi-saduqa of Babylonia (1647-1626 BC).
The story of the Flood is the final part of this epic, which starts with complaints by the Lesser Gods, who refuse to work any longer. Humankind is created, but men make so much noise, that the gods decide to wipe them out. The plan to send a Deluge, however, is betrayed by the god Enki, who sends a dream to Atrahasis.
Parts are quoted in Tablet XI of the Epic of Gilgameš. The translation offered here is adapted from the one by B.R. Foster.
Atrahasis' Dream Explained
[i.b35] Enlil committed an evil deed against the people.
[i.c.11] Atrahasis made ready to speak,
and said to his lord:
"Make me know the meaning of the dream.
let me know, that I may look out for its consequence."
[i.c15] Enki made ready to speak,
and said to his servant:
"You might say, 'Am I to be looking out while in the bedroom?'
Do you pay attention to message that I speak for your:
[i.c20] 'Wall, listen to me!
Reed wall, pay attention to all my words!
Flee the house, build a boat,
forsake possessions, and save life.
[i.c25] The boat which you build
... be equal ...
...
...
Roof her over like the Apsu, [i.e., the firmament in the primordial waters]
[i.c30] so that the sun shall not see inside her.
Let her be roofed over fore and aft.
The gear should be very strong,
the pitch should be firm, and so give the boat strength.
I will shower down upon you later
[i.c35] a windfall of birds, a spate of fishes.'"
He opened the water clock and filled it,
he told it of the coming of the seven-day deluge.
Atrahasis and the Elders
Atrahasis received the command.
He assembled the Elders at his gate.
[i.c.40] Atrahasis made ready to speak,
and said to the Elders:
"My god does not agree with your god,
Enki and Enlil are constantly angry with each other.
They have expelled me from the land.
[i.c45] Since I have always reverenced Enki,
he told me this.
I can not live in your city
Nor can I set my feet on the earth of Enlil.
I will dwell with my god in the depths.
[i.c50] This he told me: ..."
Construction of the Ark
[ii.10] The Elders ...
The carpenter carried his axe,
the reedworker carried his stone,
the rich man carried the pitch,
the poor man brought the materials needed.
[Lacuna of about fifteen lines; the word Atrahasis can be discerned.]
Boarding of the Ark
Bringing ...
[ii.30] whatever he had ...
Whatever he had ...
Pure animals he slaughtered, cattle ...
Fat animals he killed. Sheep ...
he choose and and brought on board.
[ii.35] An abundance of birds flying in the heavens,
the cattle and the ... of the cattle god,
the creatures of the steppe,
... he brought on board
...
[ii.40] he invited his people
... to a feast
... his family was brought on board.
While one was eating an another was drinking,
[ii.45] he went in and out; he could not sit, could not kneel,
for his heart was broken, he wat retching gall.
Departure
The outlook of the weather changed.
[The storm god] Adad began to roar in the clouds.
[ii.50] The god they heard, his clamor.
He brought pitch to seal his door.
By the time he had bolted his door,
Adad was roaring in the clouds.
The winds were furious as he set forth,
[ii.55] He cut the mooring rope and released the boat.
[Lacuna]
The Great Flood
[iii.5] ... the storm
... were yoked
Anzu rent the sky with his talons,
He ... the land
[iii.10] and broke its clamor like a pot.
... the flood came forth.
Its power came upon the peoples like a battle,
one person did not see another,
they could not recognize each other in the catastrophe.
[iii.15] The deluge belowed like a bull,
The wind resounded like a screaming eagle.
The darkness was dense, the sun was gone,
... like flies.
[iii.20] the clamor of the deluge.
[Lacuna. The gods find themselves hungry because there are no farmers left and sacrifices are no longer brought. When they discover that Atrahasis has survived, they make a plan to make sure that the noise will remain within limits: they invent childbirth, infant mortality, and celibacy.]
The Epic of Atrahasis is the fullest Mesopotamian account of the Great Flood. The text is known from several versions: two written by Assyrian scribes (one in the Assyrian, one in the Babylonian dialect), the third one (on three tablets) was written during the reign of king Ammi-saduqa of Babylonia (1647-1626 BC).
The story of the Flood is the final part of this epic, which starts with complaints by the Lesser Gods, who refuse to work any longer. Humankind is created, but men make so much noise, that the gods decide to wipe them out. The plan to send a Deluge, however, is betrayed by the god Enki, who sends a dream to Atrahasis.
Parts are quoted in Tablet XI of the Epic of Gilgameš. The translation offered here is adapted from the one by B.R. Foster.
Atrahasis' Dream Explained
[i.b35] Enlil committed an evil deed against the people.
[i.c.11] Atrahasis made ready to speak,
and said to his lord:
"Make me know the meaning of the dream.
let me know, that I may look out for its consequence."
[i.c15] Enki made ready to speak,
and said to his servant:
"You might say, 'Am I to be looking out while in the bedroom?'
Do you pay attention to message that I speak for your:
[i.c20] 'Wall, listen to me!
Reed wall, pay attention to all my words!
Flee the house, build a boat,
forsake possessions, and save life.
[i.c25] The boat which you build
... be equal ...
...
...
Roof her over like the Apsu, [i.e., the firmament in the primordial waters]
[i.c30] so that the sun shall not see inside her.
Let her be roofed over fore and aft.
The gear should be very strong,
the pitch should be firm, and so give the boat strength.
I will shower down upon you later
[i.c35] a windfall of birds, a spate of fishes.'"
He opened the water clock and filled it,
he told it of the coming of the seven-day deluge.
Atrahasis and the Elders
Atrahasis received the command.
He assembled the Elders at his gate.
[i.c.40] Atrahasis made ready to speak,
and said to the Elders:
"My god does not agree with your god,
Enki and Enlil are constantly angry with each other.
They have expelled me from the land.
[i.c45] Since I have always reverenced Enki,
he told me this.
I can not live in your city
Nor can I set my feet on the earth of Enlil.
I will dwell with my god in the depths.
[i.c50] This he told me: ..."
Construction of the Ark
[ii.10] The Elders ...
The carpenter carried his axe,
the reedworker carried his stone,
the rich man carried the pitch,
the poor man brought the materials needed.
[Lacuna of about fifteen lines; the word Atrahasis can be discerned.]
Boarding of the Ark
Bringing ...
[ii.30] whatever he had ...
Whatever he had ...
Pure animals he slaughtered, cattle ...
Fat animals he killed. Sheep ...
he choose and and brought on board.
[ii.35] An abundance of birds flying in the heavens,
the cattle and the ... of the cattle god,
the creatures of the steppe,
... he brought on board
...
[ii.40] he invited his people
... to a feast
... his family was brought on board.
While one was eating an another was drinking,
[ii.45] he went in and out; he could not sit, could not kneel,
for his heart was broken, he wat retching gall.
Departure
The outlook of the weather changed.
[The storm god] Adad began to roar in the clouds.
[ii.50] The god they heard, his clamor.
He brought pitch to seal his door.
By the time he had bolted his door,
Adad was roaring in the clouds.
The winds were furious as he set forth,
[ii.55] He cut the mooring rope and released the boat.
[Lacuna]
The Great Flood
[iii.5] ... the storm
... were yoked
Anzu rent the sky with his talons,
He ... the land
[iii.10] and broke its clamor like a pot.
... the flood came forth.
Its power came upon the peoples like a battle,
one person did not see another,
they could not recognize each other in the catastrophe.
[iii.15] The deluge belowed like a bull,
The wind resounded like a screaming eagle.
The darkness was dense, the sun was gone,
... like flies.
[iii.20] the clamor of the deluge.
[Lacuna. The gods find themselves hungry because there are no farmers left and sacrifices are no longer brought. When they discover that Atrahasis has survived, they make a plan to make sure that the noise will remain within limits: they invent childbirth, infant mortality, and celibacy.]
these last posts are all my words .. and I can post them if I want ..
to you it may be spamming .. to others words of interest ..
so your definition is only your definition ..
The Flood ..
catastrophic is the only word I can use to describe what happened, because not just a global flood occurred .. I'm going to just post the scripture first, then I will add some of the data I have collected .. NONE of the theories I have read put forth so far (Creationist or Evolutionist) account for the data which exists ..
cause: Catystratic meteorite shower all over earth causes fracture in marble barrier and the waters of deep are released
effect: pole reversal with rise of mountains and fall of valleys
before I add the scientific data (not theories) I want to address the Deluge source as biblicaly given, that being ..
1 40 days of rain
2 the fountains of the deep
(which happened SIMULTANEOUSLY)
Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.
Gen 7:12 The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.
Gen 7:19 The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered.
Gen 7:24 The water prevailed upon the earth one hundred and fifty days.
Gen 8:1 But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided.
Gen 8:2 Also the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained;
Gen 8:3 and the water receded steadily from the earth, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased.
Gen 8:4 In the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat.
Gen 8:5 The water decreased steadily until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains became visible.
Gen 8:6 Then it came about at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made;
Gen 8:13 Now it came about in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first of the month, the water was dried up from the earth. Then Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and behold, the surface of the ground was dried up.
Gen 8:14 In the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dry.
my math being based on arbitrary factors, I still was only able to account for 10' of water in a global 40 days of rain the most (not nearly enough to cover the mountains) .. some prescribe to a "water canopy" based on the wording "floodgates of the sky", and "never rained before, but watered the earth with mist" Gen 2:5-6 (suggesting airborne) however, it does NOT say that lasted until Noah, accept that the rainbow seems to be new at the time of the end of the deluge .. nonetheless, the majority of water had to have come from within the earth ..
the whole ordeal took (1 year 10 days (Gen 7:11 & Gen 8:13-14)
what is interesting (and important) is what it says in Gen 8:1 "...and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided."
this "wind" I believe had a very unique purpose, and not connected with the receding of the water, but another part of the catastrophe which was the source of the "floodgates" opening .. many may say, then WHERE is the water ??? .. science may have discovered it very recently ..
also note in Gen 8:2 ...the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained; .. does not give the time of the "floodgates" closing, but COULD BE the same as the rain (since they began at the same time, the same factor would initiate both .. and then the water "just sat there" from the 40 day period to the 150 day period .. to which at this point is where God initiated the beginning of the "healing" of the earth with the "wind" AND THEN, the "receding of the water" .. both being connected events as well ..
------------------------
But then Paradise was destroyed in a great flood (Genesis 6-8). Underground water chambers burst forth on that infamous day, gouging a crack around the earth that formed into today’s globe-encircling Mid-Oceanic Ridge (Brown 105-8, 120-1). This watery deluge deposited vast layers of sediments hundreds of miles across (Walter 12, Ham, Sarfati, & Wieland 155-6). The catastrophic formation of mountains and other features bent some of these water-softened sediment layers into gentle folds and arches that later hardened into rock (Ham, Sarfati, & Wieland 156-7). As the flood waters engulfed the earth, the vast forests of Paradise were swept away, then compressed under the flood sediments into great coal beds (Morris 107-9). Millions of creatures were trapped in the sediments and fossilized in contorted positions or in the act of swallowing their last meals (Brown 10-11). Even human beings and their artifacts were fossilized, the last remnants of that lost civilization (Brown 14, 36). After 150 days the waters receded into the newly-formed ocean basins (Genesis 8:3), leaving behind the silent witness of the rocks to that earth-shattering event.
catastrophic is the only word I can use to describe what happened, because not just a global flood occurred .. I'm going to just post the scripture first, then I will add some of the data I have collected .. NONE of the theories I have read put forth so far (Creationist or Evolutionist) account for the data which exists ..
cause: Catystratic meteorite shower all over earth causes fracture in marble barrier and the waters of deep are released
effect: pole reversal with rise of mountains and fall of valleys
before I add the scientific data (not theories) I want to address the Deluge source as biblicaly given, that being ..
1 40 days of rain
2 the fountains of the deep
(which happened SIMULTANEOUSLY)
Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.
Gen 7:12 The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.
Gen 7:19 The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered.
Gen 7:24 The water prevailed upon the earth one hundred and fifty days.
Gen 8:1 But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided.
Gen 8:2 Also the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained;
Gen 8:3 and the water receded steadily from the earth, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased.
Gen 8:4 In the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat.
Gen 8:5 The water decreased steadily until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains became visible.
Gen 8:6 Then it came about at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made;
Gen 8:13 Now it came about in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first of the month, the water was dried up from the earth. Then Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and behold, the surface of the ground was dried up.
Gen 8:14 In the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dry.
my math being based on arbitrary factors, I still was only able to account for 10' of water in a global 40 days of rain the most (not nearly enough to cover the mountains) .. some prescribe to a "water canopy" based on the wording "floodgates of the sky", and "never rained before, but watered the earth with mist" Gen 2:5-6 (suggesting airborne) however, it does NOT say that lasted until Noah, accept that the rainbow seems to be new at the time of the end of the deluge .. nonetheless, the majority of water had to have come from within the earth ..
the whole ordeal took (1 year 10 days (Gen 7:11 & Gen 8:13-14)
what is interesting (and important) is what it says in Gen 8:1 "...and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided."
this "wind" I believe had a very unique purpose, and not connected with the receding of the water, but another part of the catastrophe which was the source of the "floodgates" opening .. many may say, then WHERE is the water ??? .. science may have discovered it very recently ..
also note in Gen 8:2 ...the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained; .. does not give the time of the "floodgates" closing, but COULD BE the same as the rain (since they began at the same time, the same factor would initiate both .. and then the water "just sat there" from the 40 day period to the 150 day period .. to which at this point is where God initiated the beginning of the "healing" of the earth with the "wind" AND THEN, the "receding of the water" .. both being connected events as well ..
------------------------
But then Paradise was destroyed in a great flood (Genesis 6-8). Underground water chambers burst forth on that infamous day, gouging a crack around the earth that formed into today’s globe-encircling Mid-Oceanic Ridge (Brown 105-8, 120-1). This watery deluge deposited vast layers of sediments hundreds of miles across (Walter 12, Ham, Sarfati, & Wieland 155-6). The catastrophic formation of mountains and other features bent some of these water-softened sediment layers into gentle folds and arches that later hardened into rock (Ham, Sarfati, & Wieland 156-7). As the flood waters engulfed the earth, the vast forests of Paradise were swept away, then compressed under the flood sediments into great coal beds (Morris 107-9). Millions of creatures were trapped in the sediments and fossilized in contorted positions or in the act of swallowing their last meals (Brown 10-11). Even human beings and their artifacts were fossilized, the last remnants of that lost civilization (Brown 14, 36). After 150 days the waters receded into the newly-formed ocean basins (Genesis 8:3), leaving behind the silent witness of the rocks to that earth-shattering event.
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may I suggest one of the numerous other forum members to "discuss" with ???
I have no desire to discuss it with you .. I am merely putting out things to be discussed ..
living things do not evolve ..
they do pass on mutations, and contain a minute amount of genetic drift .. adaption is reversible and all 3 are natural occurrences within a specie .. discuss that with someone if you wish as well ..
People Today ..
All people are related, but "In the article in the November 2001 issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics, Ariella Oppenheim of the Hebrew University of Israel wrote that this new study revealed that Jews have a closer genetic relationship to populations in the northern Mediterranean (Kurds, Anatolian Turks, and Armenians) than to populations in the southern Mediterranean (Arabs and Bedouins)." (from http://www.barzan.com/ kevin_brook.htm)
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RiverJordan
Inactive
See, this is what's so telling to me about your form of creationism. I haven't been one bit rude or disrespectful to you, and have mainly just checked your claims against the facts and asked you follow-up questions. And for that, you say "I have no desire to discuss it with you".
That's what tells me how wrong this flood geology stuff is. If the facts were on your side, you'd love engaging in a discussion with someone like me. You'd be the one asking me questions. But instead, as soon as the facts are shown to contradict your arguments, you say "I don't want to talk about it anymore" and start spamming the thread.
That's sad, and it's a good demonstration of what I was talking about...how trying to argue flood geology from a scientific perspective sets people up to fail. Not everyone is going to be like you and stick their fingers in their ears and their hands over their eyes. Some Christians are going to admit that this is all wrong and deceptive, and are going to start to question their faith because of it.
That's what tells me how wrong this flood geology stuff is. If the facts were on your side, you'd love engaging in a discussion with someone like me. You'd be the one asking me questions. But instead, as soon as the facts are shown to contradict your arguments, you say "I don't want to talk about it anymore" and start spamming the thread.
That's sad, and it's a good demonstration of what I was talking about...how trying to argue flood geology from a scientific perspective sets people up to fail. Not everyone is going to be like you and stick their fingers in their ears and their hands over their eyes. Some Christians are going to admit that this is all wrong and deceptive, and are going to start to question their faith because of it.
Flood geology claims that the current sedimentary layers were produced by liquefaction, and that objects caught in the flood (including living creatures) were sorted by mass and location at the time when the flood engulfed them. However, archaeologists state that if this sorting actually took place, heavy, dense objects (such as human artifacts) would be expected to sink to the bottom. In actuality, man-made artifacts are very close to the top of the sedimentary layers.
Furthermore, archaeologists claim that a number of ancient cultures (such as those of Australia, Egypt and Mesopotamia), are older than the alleged date of the Flood, and that the flood would have destroyed much of the evidence of these civilizations and deeply buried the rest.
As attested to by almost every archeological dig in the mideast, at the 2400 bce era, there is about a 10 foot sediment seperating artifacts latter and prior of that 2400 bce date .. also their speculation on Egypt etc are unfounded as I have shown evidence (including the 14 feet of (non-local) sediment at the base of the pyramids that refutes that claim ..
According to scientists, the giant mammoths went extinct about 11,000 years ago, although remnant populations are believed to have persisted on an island off the coast of Siberia based on fossil remains C14 dated to about 2000 BC. Some proponents of Flood Geology have claimed that this extinction is evidence of catastrophism because certain mammoths have been found frozen in ice with grass in their mouths.
Hydroplates, proposed by mechanical engineer Walt Brown, Director of the Center for Scientific Creation, are the concept that the Earth was originally created with a great deal of subterranean water, and that the flood was brought on when the crust of the Earth was cracked, allowing this water to escape violently to the surface, and broke the surface into "hydroplates" which rapidly divided during and after the flood.
The Runaway Subduction model or Catastrophic plate tectonics, proposed by geophysicist John Baumgardner, and supported by the Institute for Creation Research and Answers in Genesis. This holds that rapid plunge of the original continental plates into the mantle could have heated silicates to a temperature at which tectonic motion would have happened extremely quickly. Proponents point to subducted slabs in the mantle which are still relatively cool, which they regard as evidence that they have not been there for millions of years of temperature equilibration.
.........................
here is some data to help you follow the story better ..
(Atrahasis = Noah)
- DEISTIC CASTE -
En-Lil = God of Gnosis (God of the World)
(the bringer of knowledge from the tree)
En-Ki = God of Soul/Spirit (Noah's God)
Nin-Lil = Goddess of Gnosis
Nin-Ki = Goddess of Souls
Nin-Tu = Goddess of Birth
(became 3 daughters of Cups aka the Fates)
Ada-D = Red Storm Angel
(synomonous with Throth/Thor)(thunder & lightning)
Pa-Si-tu = House of - Sin/Death - of the Born ??? (Moloch ??? aka child sacrifice)
Lil-Ith = Banshee of Knowledge
Ada-mah = Red Man of Dirt
- Prefix -
En = Divine (male) a God
Nin = Divinity (fem) a Goddess/consort
- ROOT -
Lil = Knowledge (gnosis)
Ki = Soul/Spirit (Egyptian Ka & Hebrew Jah)
Tu = Nee or to be born (Egyptian Tu)
Ada = Red Storm (Red with Force)
Ith = witch of Wilderness (fem)
sYTHe = witch of Wilderness (male)
(deserts were thought to be the domain of demons)
- SUFFIX -
atta = water
nu = our
r = end or last
mah = man/of dust
- OTHER -
Apsu = primordial water canopy above earth (between 1st & 2nd heavens)
Ada-r = Red Storms end
(last month Feb-Mar, before New year beginning with spring)
Furthermore, archaeologists claim that a number of ancient cultures (such as those of Australia, Egypt and Mesopotamia), are older than the alleged date of the Flood, and that the flood would have destroyed much of the evidence of these civilizations and deeply buried the rest.
As attested to by almost every archeological dig in the mideast, at the 2400 bce era, there is about a 10 foot sediment seperating artifacts latter and prior of that 2400 bce date .. also their speculation on Egypt etc are unfounded as I have shown evidence (including the 14 feet of (non-local) sediment at the base of the pyramids that refutes that claim ..
According to scientists, the giant mammoths went extinct about 11,000 years ago, although remnant populations are believed to have persisted on an island off the coast of Siberia based on fossil remains C14 dated to about 2000 BC. Some proponents of Flood Geology have claimed that this extinction is evidence of catastrophism because certain mammoths have been found frozen in ice with grass in their mouths.
Hydroplates, proposed by mechanical engineer Walt Brown, Director of the Center for Scientific Creation, are the concept that the Earth was originally created with a great deal of subterranean water, and that the flood was brought on when the crust of the Earth was cracked, allowing this water to escape violently to the surface, and broke the surface into "hydroplates" which rapidly divided during and after the flood.
The Runaway Subduction model or Catastrophic plate tectonics, proposed by geophysicist John Baumgardner, and supported by the Institute for Creation Research and Answers in Genesis. This holds that rapid plunge of the original continental plates into the mantle could have heated silicates to a temperature at which tectonic motion would have happened extremely quickly. Proponents point to subducted slabs in the mantle which are still relatively cool, which they regard as evidence that they have not been there for millions of years of temperature equilibration.
.........................
here is some data to help you follow the story better ..
(Atrahasis = Noah)
- DEISTIC CASTE -
En-Lil = God of Gnosis (God of the World)
(the bringer of knowledge from the tree)
En-Ki = God of Soul/Spirit (Noah's God)
Nin-Lil = Goddess of Gnosis
Nin-Ki = Goddess of Souls
Nin-Tu = Goddess of Birth
(became 3 daughters of Cups aka the Fates)
Ada-D = Red Storm Angel
(synomonous with Throth/Thor)(thunder & lightning)
Pa-Si-tu = House of - Sin/Death - of the Born ??? (Moloch ??? aka child sacrifice)
Lil-Ith = Banshee of Knowledge
Ada-mah = Red Man of Dirt
- Prefix -
En = Divine (male) a God
Nin = Divinity (fem) a Goddess/consort
- ROOT -
Lil = Knowledge (gnosis)
Ki = Soul/Spirit (Egyptian Ka & Hebrew Jah)
Tu = Nee or to be born (Egyptian Tu)
Ada = Red Storm (Red with Force)
Ith = witch of Wilderness (fem)
sYTHe = witch of Wilderness (male)
(deserts were thought to be the domain of demons)
- SUFFIX -
atta = water
nu = our
r = end or last
mah = man/of dust
- OTHER -
Apsu = primordial water canopy above earth (between 1st & 2nd heavens)
Ada-r = Red Storms end
(last month Feb-Mar, before New year beginning with spring)
"alleged" facts ..
and THAT is why .. you claim "facts" which means you closed your mind ..
I'm trying to cover an immense amount of factors involved ..
you can pick just one factor and it can be debated/discussed for a whole year .. why not just post .. your reasons why you think it is a fable and let the reader decide ???
I have not seen one "alleged fact" that science has claimed as a "fact" and has not updated or reversed ..
it's not a matter of what a person wants it to be .. but a matter of science is merely man trying to understand what is .. when science becomes arrogant in claiming more then plausibility .. then it ceases to be science ..
perhaps scientific methodology is not exactly convenient for the so called "experts" egos ..
While the zebra-stripe pattern has been confirmed, drilling through the basalt adjacent to the ridges has shown that the neat pattern recorded by dragging a magnetometer above the ridge is not present when the rock is actually sampled. The magnetic polarity changes in patches down the holes, with no consistent pattern with depth.7 This would be expected with rapid formation of the basalt, combined with rapid field reversals, not the slow-and-gradual formation with slow reversals assumed by uniformitarians.
Physicist Dr. Russell Humphreys predicted that evidence for rapid field reversals would be found in lava flows thin enough to cool in a few weeks.8 He suggested that such rapid reversals could have happened during Noah's flood. Such evidence for rapid reversals was later found by the respected researchers Coe and Prvot.9 Their later work10 confirmed these findings and showed that the magnetic reversals were “astonishingly rapid.”
Physicist Dr. Russell Humphreys predicted that evidence for rapid field reversals would be found in lava flows thin enough to cool in a few weeks.8 He suggested that such rapid reversals could have happened during Noah's flood. Such evidence for rapid reversals was later found by the respected researchers Coe and Prvot.9 Their later work10 confirmed these findings and showed that the magnetic reversals were “astonishingly rapid.”
RiverJordan
Inactive
The truth flourishes in the spotlight of scrutiny. It intentionally seeks it out and tests itself against reality.
Deceit OTOH shirks the spotlight and avoids it at all costs.
exactly .. that is why those who say it did not happen do not look at all the evidence ..
so why would I waste my time ???
as I said .. post what you want ..
I will post a dissenting scientific view ..
as well as the logic .. and let the reader decide ..
science is more pro then con inre flood as I see it ..
and history is overwhelmingly pro ..
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the nay-sayers do not own science ..
those who believe in the flood as God said it happened, own science just as much as the nay-sayers .. and it works for them as well ..
so if science seems to support both, then science isn't much of an authority is it ???
my opinion is nay-sayers try to disingenuously to claim science ..
this is nothing less then ridiculous ..
I read peer reviews ..
those who believe in the flood as God said it happened, own science just as much as the nay-sayers .. and it works for them as well ..
so if science seems to support both, then science isn't much of an authority is it ???
my opinion is nay-sayers try to disingenuously to claim science ..
this is nothing less then ridiculous ..
I read peer reviews ..
Dr. John Baumgardner, working at the Los Alamos National Laboratories (New Mexico), has used supercomputers to model processes in the earth's mantle to show that tectonic plate movement could have occurred very rapidly, and “spontaneously.” This concept is known as catastrophic plate tectonics. At the time of writing, Baumgardner, is acknowledged as having developed the world's best 3-D super-computer model of plate tectonics
The model proposed by Baumgardner begins with a pre-flood super-continent (“Let the waters... be gathered together into one place” Genesis 1:9) and dense ocean floor rocks. The process starts with the cold and dense ocean floor beginning to sink into the softer, less dense mantle beneath. The friction from this movement generates heat, especially around the edges, which softens the adjacent mantle material, making it less resistant to the sinking of the ocean floor.The edges sink faster, dragging the rest of the ocean floor along, in conveyor belt fashion. Faster movement creates more friction and heat in the surrounding mantle, reducing its resistance further and so the ocean floor moves even faster, and so on. At its peak, this thermal runaway instability would have allowed for subduction at rates of meters-per-second. This key concept is called runaway subduction.
The sinking ocean floor would displace mantle material, starting large-scale movement throughout the entire mantle. However, as the ocean floor sank and rapidly subducted adjacent to the pre-flood super-continent's margins, elsewhere the earth's crust would be under such tensional stress that it would be torn apart (rifted), breaking up both the pre-flood super-continent and the ocean floor.
Thus, crustal spreading zones would rapidly extend along cracks in the ocean floor for some 6,000 miles where the splitting was occurring. Hot mantle material displaced by the subducting slabs would well up, rising to the surface along these spreading zones. On the ocean floor, this hot mantle material would vaporize copious amounts of ocean water, producing a linear geyser of superheated steam along the whole length of the spreading centers (perhaps the “fountains of the great deep”? Genesis 7:11; 8:2). This steam would disperse, condensing in the atmosphere to fall as intense global rain (“and the flood-gates of heaven were opened” Genesis 7:11). This could account for the rain persisting for 40 days and 40 nights (Genesis 7:12).
Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics global flood model for earth history15 is able to explain more geological data than the conventional plate tectonics model with its many millions of years. For example, rapid subduction of the pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle results in new ocean floor that is dramatically hotter, especially in its upper 60 miles, not just at spreading ridges, but everywhere. Being hotter, the new ocean floor is of lower density and therefore rises 3,000 to 6,000 feet higher than before and implies a dramatic rise in global sea level.
This higher sea level floods the continental surfaces and makes possible the deposition of large areas of sedimentary deposits on top of the normally high-standing continents. The Grand Canyon provides a spectacular window into the amazing layer-cake character of these sediment deposits that in many cases continue uninterrupted for more than 600 miles.16 Uniformitarian (“slow and gradual”) plate tectonics simply cannot account for such thick continental sediment sequences of such vast horizontal extent.
Moreover, the rapid subduction of the cooler pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle would have resulted in increased circulation of viscous fluid (note: plastic, not molten) rock within the mantle. This mantle-flow (i.e., “stirring” within the mantle) suddenly altered the temperatures at the core-mantle boundary, as the mantle near the core would now be significantly cooler than the adjacent core, and thus convection and heat loss from the core would be greatly accelerated. The model suggests that under these conditions of accelerated convection in the core, rapid geomagnetic reversals would have occurred. These in turn would be expressed on the earth's surface and recorded in the so-called magnetic stripes.17 However, these would be erratic and locally patchy, laterally and at depth, just as the data indicate,18 even according to the uniformitarian scientists cited earlier.
This model provides a mechanism that explains how the plates could move relatively quickly (in a matter of a few months) over the mantle and subduct. And it predicts that little or no movement would be measurable between plates today, because the movement would have come almost to a standstill when the entire pre-flood ocean floor was subducted. From this we would also expect the trenches adjacent to subduction zones today to be filled with undisturbed late-flood and post-flood sediments, just as we observe.
Aspects of Baumgardner's mantle modeling have been independently duplicated and thus verified by others.19 Furthermore, Baumgardner's modeling predicts that because this thermal runaway subduction of cold ocean floor crystal slabs occurred relatively recently, during the flood (about 4,500 or so years ago), then those slabs would not have had sufficient time since to be fully assimilated into the surrounding mantle. So, evidence of the slabs above the mantle-core boundary (to which they sank) should still be found today. Indeed, evidence for such unassimilated relatively cold slabs has been found in seismic studies.
The model also provides a mechanism for retreat of the flood waters. Psalm 104:6-7 describes the abating of the waters which had stood above the mountains. Verse 8 most naturally translates as, “The mountains rose up; the valleys sank down,”21 implying that vertical earth movements were the dominant tectonic forces operating at the close of the flood, in contrast to the horizontal forces dominant during the spreading phase.
Plate collisions would have pushed up mountains, while cooling of the new ocean floor would have increased its density, causing it to sink and thus deepen the new ocean basins to receive the retreating flood waters. It may be significant, therefore, that the “mountains of Ararat” (Genesis 8:4), the resting place of the ark after the 150th day of the flood, are in a tectonically active region at what is believed to be the junction of three crustal plates.22
If an inch [2.54 centimeters] or so per year of inferred movement today is extrapolated back into the past as uniformitarians do, then their conventional plate tectonics model has limited exploratory power. For example, even at a rate of four inches [10.16 centimeters] per year, it is questionable whether the forces of the collision between the Indian-Australian and Eurasian Plates could have been sufficient to push up the Himalayas. On the other hand, catastrophic plate tectonics in the context of the flood can explain how the plates overcame the viscous drag of the earth's mantle for a short time due to the enormous catastrophic forces at work, followed by a rapid slowing down to present rates.
Continental separation solves apparent geological enigmas. For instance, it explains the amazing similarities of sedimentary layers in the northeastern United States to those in Britain. It also explains the absence of those same layers in the intervening North Atlantic ocean basin, as well as the similarities in the geology of parts of Australia with South Africa, India, and Antarctica.
Early skepticism about plate tectonics has largely evaporated because the framework has such great explanatory power. The catastrophic plate tectonics model for the flood not only includes these explanatory elements, but also accounts for widespread evidences of massive flooding and catastrophic geological processes on the continents. Future refinement of the model may also help to explain the order and distribution of fossils observed in the fossil record in the context of the Genesis flood.
The model proposed by Baumgardner begins with a pre-flood super-continent (“Let the waters... be gathered together into one place” Genesis 1:9) and dense ocean floor rocks. The process starts with the cold and dense ocean floor beginning to sink into the softer, less dense mantle beneath. The friction from this movement generates heat, especially around the edges, which softens the adjacent mantle material, making it less resistant to the sinking of the ocean floor.The edges sink faster, dragging the rest of the ocean floor along, in conveyor belt fashion. Faster movement creates more friction and heat in the surrounding mantle, reducing its resistance further and so the ocean floor moves even faster, and so on. At its peak, this thermal runaway instability would have allowed for subduction at rates of meters-per-second. This key concept is called runaway subduction.
The sinking ocean floor would displace mantle material, starting large-scale movement throughout the entire mantle. However, as the ocean floor sank and rapidly subducted adjacent to the pre-flood super-continent's margins, elsewhere the earth's crust would be under such tensional stress that it would be torn apart (rifted), breaking up both the pre-flood super-continent and the ocean floor.
Thus, crustal spreading zones would rapidly extend along cracks in the ocean floor for some 6,000 miles where the splitting was occurring. Hot mantle material displaced by the subducting slabs would well up, rising to the surface along these spreading zones. On the ocean floor, this hot mantle material would vaporize copious amounts of ocean water, producing a linear geyser of superheated steam along the whole length of the spreading centers (perhaps the “fountains of the great deep”? Genesis 7:11; 8:2). This steam would disperse, condensing in the atmosphere to fall as intense global rain (“and the flood-gates of heaven were opened” Genesis 7:11). This could account for the rain persisting for 40 days and 40 nights (Genesis 7:12).
Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics global flood model for earth history15 is able to explain more geological data than the conventional plate tectonics model with its many millions of years. For example, rapid subduction of the pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle results in new ocean floor that is dramatically hotter, especially in its upper 60 miles, not just at spreading ridges, but everywhere. Being hotter, the new ocean floor is of lower density and therefore rises 3,000 to 6,000 feet higher than before and implies a dramatic rise in global sea level.
This higher sea level floods the continental surfaces and makes possible the deposition of large areas of sedimentary deposits on top of the normally high-standing continents. The Grand Canyon provides a spectacular window into the amazing layer-cake character of these sediment deposits that in many cases continue uninterrupted for more than 600 miles.16 Uniformitarian (“slow and gradual”) plate tectonics simply cannot account for such thick continental sediment sequences of such vast horizontal extent.
Moreover, the rapid subduction of the cooler pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle would have resulted in increased circulation of viscous fluid (note: plastic, not molten) rock within the mantle. This mantle-flow (i.e., “stirring” within the mantle) suddenly altered the temperatures at the core-mantle boundary, as the mantle near the core would now be significantly cooler than the adjacent core, and thus convection and heat loss from the core would be greatly accelerated. The model suggests that under these conditions of accelerated convection in the core, rapid geomagnetic reversals would have occurred. These in turn would be expressed on the earth's surface and recorded in the so-called magnetic stripes.17 However, these would be erratic and locally patchy, laterally and at depth, just as the data indicate,18 even according to the uniformitarian scientists cited earlier.
This model provides a mechanism that explains how the plates could move relatively quickly (in a matter of a few months) over the mantle and subduct. And it predicts that little or no movement would be measurable between plates today, because the movement would have come almost to a standstill when the entire pre-flood ocean floor was subducted. From this we would also expect the trenches adjacent to subduction zones today to be filled with undisturbed late-flood and post-flood sediments, just as we observe.
Aspects of Baumgardner's mantle modeling have been independently duplicated and thus verified by others.19 Furthermore, Baumgardner's modeling predicts that because this thermal runaway subduction of cold ocean floor crystal slabs occurred relatively recently, during the flood (about 4,500 or so years ago), then those slabs would not have had sufficient time since to be fully assimilated into the surrounding mantle. So, evidence of the slabs above the mantle-core boundary (to which they sank) should still be found today. Indeed, evidence for such unassimilated relatively cold slabs has been found in seismic studies.
The model also provides a mechanism for retreat of the flood waters. Psalm 104:6-7 describes the abating of the waters which had stood above the mountains. Verse 8 most naturally translates as, “The mountains rose up; the valleys sank down,”21 implying that vertical earth movements were the dominant tectonic forces operating at the close of the flood, in contrast to the horizontal forces dominant during the spreading phase.
Plate collisions would have pushed up mountains, while cooling of the new ocean floor would have increased its density, causing it to sink and thus deepen the new ocean basins to receive the retreating flood waters. It may be significant, therefore, that the “mountains of Ararat” (Genesis 8:4), the resting place of the ark after the 150th day of the flood, are in a tectonically active region at what is believed to be the junction of three crustal plates.22
If an inch [2.54 centimeters] or so per year of inferred movement today is extrapolated back into the past as uniformitarians do, then their conventional plate tectonics model has limited exploratory power. For example, even at a rate of four inches [10.16 centimeters] per year, it is questionable whether the forces of the collision between the Indian-Australian and Eurasian Plates could have been sufficient to push up the Himalayas. On the other hand, catastrophic plate tectonics in the context of the flood can explain how the plates overcame the viscous drag of the earth's mantle for a short time due to the enormous catastrophic forces at work, followed by a rapid slowing down to present rates.
Continental separation solves apparent geological enigmas. For instance, it explains the amazing similarities of sedimentary layers in the northeastern United States to those in Britain. It also explains the absence of those same layers in the intervening North Atlantic ocean basin, as well as the similarities in the geology of parts of Australia with South Africa, India, and Antarctica.
Early skepticism about plate tectonics has largely evaporated because the framework has such great explanatory power. The catastrophic plate tectonics model for the flood not only includes these explanatory elements, but also accounts for widespread evidences of massive flooding and catastrophic geological processes on the continents. Future refinement of the model may also help to explain the order and distribution of fossils observed in the fossil record in the context of the Genesis flood.
RiverJordan
Inactive
Really? I've tried and tried and tried to get you to address two simple questions, and you have refused every time.
Well yeah...."as you see it" requires that you refuse to discuss it with anyone who questions you.
Like I said, truth flourishes in and seeks out the spotlight of scrutiny. Deceit shrinks from it. What side of that equation do you think "I don't want to discuss it" falls on?
Proverbs 3:7 Do not be wise in your own opinion...
Proverbs 26:12 See you a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope of a fool than of him.
1 Corinthians 1:25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame to the wise
Fact is, none of us were there. NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY can say for certain except be it by FAITH. It is written, therefore.. I BELIEVE!
Who are we? Could any of us have created this universe? Could any of us created life?
What must He think when we question Him, our almighty God, our creator?
There are certainly this I do not understand and science TRIES to explain but the way I see it is this...
TRULY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IN MY FAITH!
It doesn't surprise me that I don't understand everything. I am not God!
In a moment or time here is up. Then we'll have understanding. Til then? His Word is Supreme.
Just saying.
Proverbs 26:12 See you a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope of a fool than of him.
1 Corinthians 1:25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame to the wise
Fact is, none of us were there. NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY can say for certain except be it by FAITH. It is written, therefore.. I BELIEVE!
Who are we? Could any of us have created this universe? Could any of us created life?
What must He think when we question Him, our almighty God, our creator?
There are certainly this I do not understand and science TRIES to explain but the way I see it is this...
TRULY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IN MY FAITH!
It doesn't surprise me that I don't understand everything. I am not God!
In a moment or time here is up. Then we'll have understanding. Til then? His Word is Supreme.
Just saying.
- Status