What About the Unreached?

Musicmaster said:
The majority of humanity is living in torment in Sheol to this very day, and they will not find redemption, but rather condemnation and Hell in the day the Great White Throne judgement is held. It is they who will rise up in the second resurrection.

Those who had never heard the Gospel, and also rejected the evidence of God in nature, they are those who are without excuse. Some have asked me how they could respond to what they can see in nature even through there were no missionaries about to tell them about Jesus.

Well, that's a REALLY good question, but one thing we DO know is that the Lord always comes through when He sees a sincere heart. How he does it is anyone's guess since we're not told about all the Lord's methods and actions. We don't even know what the thunders said that John heard, so it might be ministering angels, visions, dreams...the Lord gets through to people in many, many ways who are sincere with what they see in nature all around them.

The bottom line is that the Lord took full responsibility for the fall of mankind into sin by offering a way out from the penalty of sin through His only begotten Son. The evidence of His existence being easily seen in creation removes any and all excuse for all men who desire to keep their sin upon themselves, and therefore having to try and atone for it all themselves, which cannot be done, as you know.

MM
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Agreed on the point that all of humanity knows who the Creator be for we be created in like fashion even the animal kingdom knows who their creator is when confronted by his presence. There is no such thing as atheist only those who choose to lie and deny the reality of the God. As to God offering mankind a way out. Mankind has no say in that matter. If you think it be merely by saying if we confess the Lord Jesus in our hearts and you shall be saved. Well think again one could get 10 drunks or sniffers to say those words and come the next mth they’ll be exactly the same unchanged. Faith is needed from the God to for any true transition to take place. MusicMaster the way I look at things is that the God has always had a plan to redeem the world even whether they have not known of the ancient books nor heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone knows there is a true God it be only that our fallen nature is contrary to him. God made access to himself via the crucifixion paying all debt fully in his blood to anyone he chooses to forgive. As to the great white throne judgement of the condemned and the dammed. Is their punishment and torment to be eternal ? I’m not so sure. Some things take FOREVER in a day. Forever may not always have a eternal sense. Perhaps temporal punishment is a possibility. Perhaps where the scripture says ( Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ) has much deeper connotations than just ones confession of ones prior judgment. And maybe also speaks of a future universal redemption for all.
 
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Major said:
Via......All men are convicted of sin due to the simple fact that the Creation around them tells them that there is someone who made it, so that they are without an excuse.
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I agree to this. It is not just by hearing the Word of God. We have common sense, we have morals - where did those come from? God. I mean how was it put into law that we shouldn't murder, kill, steal, etc. Man definitely didn't come up with that.
 
Prim90 said:
Agreed on the point that all of humanity knows who the Creator be for we be created in like fashion even the animal kingdom knows who their creator is when confronted by his presence. There is no such thing as atheist only those who choose to lie and deny the reality of the God. As to God offering mankind a way out. Mankind has no say in that matter. If you think it be merely by saying if we confess the Lord Jesus in our hearts and you shall be saved. Well think again one could get 10 drunks or sniffers to say those words and come the next mth they’ll be exactly the same unchanged. Faith is needed from the God to for any true transition to take place. MusicMaster the way I look at things is that the God has always had a plan to redeem the world even whether they have not known of the ancient books nor heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone knows there is a true God it be only that our fallen nature is contrary to him. God made access to himself via the crucifixion paying all debt fully in his blood to anyone he chooses to forgive. As to the great white throne judgement of the condemned and the dammed. Is their punishment and torment to be eternal ? I’m not so sure. Some things take FOREVER in a day. Forever may not always have a eternal sense. Perhaps temporal punishment is a possibility. Perhaps where the scripture says ( Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ) has much deeper connotations than just ones confession of ones prior judgment. And maybe also speaks of a future universal redemption for all.
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I don't think you have ever seen a statement from me where I stated that merely confessing the name of Jesus, one is automatically saved. One must be born again. That's it. Nothing else will suffice. People trying to use some "sinner's prayer" as a form of magic spell that saves them....no. That simply doesn't work. One MUST be born from above:

John 3:3, 7
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ...
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

MM
 
TransformedinChrist said:
I agree to this. It is not just by hearing the Word of God. We have common sense, we have morals - where did those come from? God. I mean how was it put into law that we shouldn't murder, kill, steal, etc. Man definitely didn't come up with that.
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Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

As always, I encourage everyone to read those verses in context.

MM
 
TransformedinChrist said:
I agree to this. It is not just by hearing the Word of God. We have common sense, we have morals - where did those come from? God. I mean how was it put into law that we shouldn't murder, kill, steal, etc. Man definitely didn't come up with that.
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Morals were actually in place in the Garden of Eden.

God’s moral law (the Ten Commandments) has existed at least as long as sin has existed.

Abraham who lived before Sinai and the giving of the Ten Commandments, knew and kept God’s moral Law. The Scriptures say in Gen.26:5.. “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws”.
 
Musicmaster said:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

As always, I encourage everyone to read those verses in context.

MM
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Can you explain more please? Thank you.
 
Major said:
Morals were actually in place in the Garden of Eden.

God’s moral law (the Ten Commandments) has existed at least as long as sin has existed.

Abraham who lived before Sinai and the giving of the Ten Commandments, knew and kept God’s moral Law. The Scriptures say in Gen.26:5.. “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws”.
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I was just stating sin would self destruct us. I hope I wasn't speaking out of context.
 
Musicmaster said:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

As always, I encourage everyone to read those verses in context.

MM
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I hope I wasn't out of context. If so I apologize.
 
Musicmaster said:
I don't think you have ever seen a statement from me where I stated that merely confessing the name of Jesus, one is automatically saved. One must be born again. That's it. Nothing else will suffice. People trying to use some "sinner's prayer" as a form of magic spell that saves them....no. That simply doesn't work. One MUST be born from above:

John 3:3, 7
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ...
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

MM
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People trying to use some "sinner's prayer" as a form of magic spell that saves them....no. That simply doesn't work. One MUST be born from above...

Can you explain more MM?

Romans 10:!3 - when we call on Jesus Christ, we are saved. Just like the thief on the cross. If not am I missing something?
 
Musicmaster said:
I don't think you have ever seen a statement from me where I stated that merely confessing the name of Jesus, one is automatically saved. One must be born again. That's it. Nothing else will suffice. People trying to use some "sinner's prayer" as a form of magic spell that saves them....no. That simply doesn't work. One MUST be born from above:

John 3:3, 7
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ...
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

MM
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Absolutely true brother!

James 2:14 begins a discussion of faith without works and includes a vivid point by James that even the demons believe and tremble.
(vs 19).

The “faith” of demons is useless, even though they tremble at what they know to be true. People who say they “believe” in God while showing no evidence of faith have a level of “belief” similar to that of demons.
 
Major said:
Absolutely true brother!

James 2:14 begins a discussion of faith without works and includes a vivid point by James that even the demons believe and tremble.
(vs 19).

The “faith” of demons is useless, even though they tremble at what they know to be true. People who say they “believe” in God while showing no evidence of faith have a level of “belief” similar to that of demons.
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If we believe, we are going to participate and demonstrate in action. We aren't saved by our works but our lives with bare fruit of salvation in Christ. Not just a matter of believing but knowing that our salvation is a process - working our salvation in fear and trembling....
 
Major said:
No....not at all.

I was only responding to your question is post #27 of.......... "
We have common sense, we have morals - where did those come from? God. I mean how was it put into law that we shouldn't murder, kill, steal, etc. Man definitely didn't come up with that."
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I just wasn't sure Major. :) Thank you.
 
TransformedinChrist said:
People trying to use some "sinner's prayer" as a form of magic spell that saves them....no. That simply doesn't work. One MUST be born from above...

Can you explain more MM?

Romans 10:!3 - when we call on Jesus Christ, we are saved. Just like the thief on the cross. If not am I missing something?
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MM is more than qualified to answer your question and I am sure he will.
I also believe that he will agree with me as I have agreed with him that the sinners prayer is NOT a magic potion that saves you.

ANYONE can say a sinners prayer. If we read Romans 10:9 carefully we see that it says......
"IF we believe in our HEART and say with our mouth.....".

Believe in our heart is the root of "BORN AGAIN". We must turn from our sin and to Christ in actions just not words. That is what James was saying in his epistle....."Faith without works is dead"!

That does not means we do works to BE saved, but it DOES Mean that we do works because we are saved!
 
Major said:
MM is more than qualified to answer your question and I am sure he will.
I also believe that he will agree with me as I have agreed with him that the sinners prayer is NOT a magic potion that saves you.

ANYONE can say a sinners prayer. If we read Romans 10:9 carefully we see that it says......
"IF we believe in our HEART and say with our mouth.....".

Believe in our heart is the root of "BORN AGAIN". We must turn from our sin and to Christ in actions just not words. That is what James was saying in his epistle....."Faith without works is dead"!

That does not means we do works to BE saved, but it DOES Mean that we do works because we are saved!
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Exactly. Agreed.
 
TransformedinChrist said:
Can you explain more please? Thank you.
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Sure thing:

There are a number of movements sweeping across the planet, and drawing in more and more unsuspecting Christians, all focused upon returning to the requirements of following the Mosaic Law. Not all of them couple the Mosaic Law with the Blood of Christ for salvation, but many are going to that extreme.

What they all fail to understand is that the Mosaic Law was ONLY for Israel, not Gentiles. One need only read Acts 15 and Galatians 1,2,3- to see that a return to the requirements of the Mosaic Law, which is also known as Torah-following, is literally falling from grace, as Paul stated to the Galatians.

So, when one asks what Law we are to follow, yes, the Mosaic Law is good for studying, but when people start making the adherence to the Mosaic Law a moral issue, that's when the trouble starts. More importantly are the things the Lord writes in the hearts of His people.

For an illustration of that very phenomenon, simply read Matthew 5, where six times Jesus stated what was written or said in the Mosaic Law, and those six times He said ,"...BUT IS SAY..." [CAPS are for emphasis only.] He was demonstrating the inferiority of the Mosaic Law to the Law of God, which He writes in our hearts. In one instance, He even REVERSED what the Mosaic Law stated, which is to hate one's enemies. So, Jesus said, "BUT I SAY..." we are to pray for our enemies, and we should love those who hate us.

So, the equation the many of the legalistic Torah-followers are living by is Jesus + Law. That simply doesn't work, and it cheapens the validity and the sufficiency of the Blood of Christ.

Hope that answers your questions. If not, ask away. :)

MM
 
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