What day is the Sabbath ? (Staff edit of title by request)

[Truthfrees]

can you clarify what the op is about?

are you saying saturday is not really saturday - it's another day of the week because the calendars got switched at some point?

i got a little lost in all the links

sabbath starts sundown friday and ends sundown saturday - as per genesis that says there was evening there was morning the 1st/2nd/3rd/4rth/5th/6day - meaning each new day starts and ends at sundown (erev) - not at midnight (layla) as per the non-Jewish version

this fact (a new day starts at sundown) makes it a little difficult to understand for non-Jews because for Jews saturday starts 2-9 hrs earlier than midnight (depending on when sundown is)

 

[Christian Guy]

can you clarify what the op is about?

are you saying saturday is not really saturday - it's another day of the week because the calendars got switched at some point?

i got a little lost in all the links

sabbath starts sundown friday and ends sundown saturday - as per genesis that says there was evening there was morning the 1st/2nd/3rd/4rth/5th/6day - meaning each new day starts and ends at sundown (erev) - not at midnight (layla) as per the non-Jewish version

this fact (a new day starts at sundown) makes it a little difficult to understand for non-Jews because for Jews saturday starts 2-9 hrs earlier than midnight (depending on when sundown is)

Hi Truthfrees

I used to think exactly the same until I happened to read this rather long article:

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Basically if we trace the Sabbath using our familiar Gregorian/Julian calendars we get all the way back to Friday 1st of January 45BC which was the very first day of the new Julian 7 day week calendar but the days before this date were calculated using an ancient Roman calendar that had an 8 day week, where the days were named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years. Here's a picture of it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Meanwhile over a 1000 miles away in Israel the Israelites had of course been using using there own separate 7 day week calendar for hundreds of years prior to the Roman people (and their calendars) even existing. This means the Roman 7 day week created in 45BC and the Israelite 7 day week going all the way back to creation are totally separate and therefore the Sabbath can not be calculated using our modern Julian/Gregorian calendar. This can be hard to understand but it makes perfect sense once you do.

If you want to know when the Sabbath really is please read or watch any or all of these links:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Videos:

The Creator's Calendar
9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

15 mins (or faster with the high speed setting):
International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries?

79 min (or faster with the high speed setting):
Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wJq8tKvnemU

 

[Truthfrees]

Hi Truthfrees

I used to think exactly the same until I happened to read this rather long article:

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Basically if we trace the Sabbath using our familiar Gregorian/Julian calendars we get all the way back to Friday 1st of January 45BC which was the very first day of the new Julian 7 day week calendar but the days before this date were calculated using an ancient Roman calendar that had an 8 day week, where the days were named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years. Here's a picture of it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Meanwhile over a 1000 miles away in Israel the Israelites had of course been using using there own separate 7 day week calendar for hundreds of years prior to the Roman people (and their calendars) even existing. This means the Roman 7 day week created in 45BC and the Israelite 7 day week going all the way back to creation are totally separate and therefore the Sabbath can not be calculated using our modern Julian/Gregorian calendar. This can be hard to understand but it makes perfect sense once you do.

If you want to know when the Sabbath really is please read or watch any or all of these links:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Videos:

The Creator's Calendar
9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

15 mins (or faster with the high speed setting):
International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries?

79 min (or faster with the high speed setting):
Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wJq8tKvnemU

i guess i'm still not getting the point

perhaps someone else can give me a synopsis of what the op is saying

God Bless you

 

[Christian Guy]

i guess i'm still not getting the point

perhaps someone else can give me a synopsis of what the op is saying

God Bless you

No worries Truthfrees, most people I talk with over the internet can't get it straight away, face to face is much easier as only about 5% of full communication can be done by the written word compared to face to face communication. Also I can use pencil and paper etc which helps.

Try to put yourself in the two situations, first the Israelites and how they had been using there own 7 day week from the time of Moses and before, then the Roman comes along hundreds of years later with this new calendar that has it's own 7 day week that is not synchronised to the Israelite's 7 day week. History records that the Israelites rejected the attempts by the Roman's to force this calendar, and it's 7 day week, upon them. It wasn't till 359 AD (after about 400 years) that they finally accepted the new 7 day Roman week.

Now put your self in the Roman's place, they had been using a calendar, just in the province of Rome, for several hundred years leading up to 45BC and this calendar had an 8 day week, with days called A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days). Then along comes Julius Cesar, who with the help of the Greek Mathematician Sosigenes, creates a brand new calendar with a new 7 day week (Sunday to Monday). Then the Romans begin to force other countries in the Empire to use this is new 7 day week but this task takes about 400 years to get all the other countries to use it.

The two 7 day weeks are not synchronised, it is only a coincidence that they both have 7 day weeks and the evidence for this has been left to us in all the historical records, archaeology and the Bible itself.

I hope that helps.

 

[aha]

To visualize what I read or quickly browsed the link:
https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

Imagine two 7 inches (day) long stick travelling at the same speed ie: synchronized although but one is a day or so ahead of the other
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ the last line/dash is always a day or so ahead

THEREFORE: the other system should have exact or equivalent day to the other

The link seems to proposed that the other 7 inches long is being reset on each month (lunar months), that is: it will begin with day 1 at each month (?), while the other is not being reset (solar months)
.... am not sure that but that is how I understand.

Thus, the picture will be:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ....... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _....... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _...._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _......_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ there will always comes a point in time that the last day of one system can be aligned with any day of the other system

Thus, with that being reset, the link therefore seems to conclude:

To quote:
“Part Two The Sabbath
All of this means, is that the Sabbath can occur on any day of the Julian/Gregorian calendar, whether a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, etc.,”


Thus, google some links and some proposed that “reset” is not a practice…


https://www.bibletools.org/index.cf...10/Seventh-Day-Not-Reset-with-Lunar-Month.htm

Bible verses about Seventh Day Not Reset with Lunar Month

(From Forerunner Commentary)

Genesis 2:3

For millennia, most of the world has been using a week of seven days. These seven days continuously repeat in their accustomed order week after week after week. The first day of the week invariably follows the seventh day of the previous week with enduring regularity. That is how it has always been.

Thus, with that proposal, the picture will be:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ the same with the first picture mentioned above, the two travels at same time, no reset, thus, there will be an exact equivalent that day to the other system.


I don’t know…

But it sure pays to take a rest one day in week…

I read some scientific article on that resting at least a day in week is healthy….

 

[Christian Guy]

To visualize what I read or quickly browsed the link:
https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

Imagine two 7 inches (day) long stick travelling at the same speed ie: synchronized although but one is a day or so ahead of the other
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ the last line/dash is always a day or so ahead

THEREFORE: the other system should have exact or equivalent day to the other

The link seems to proposed that the other 7 inches long is being reset on each month (lunar months), that is: it will begin with day 1 at each month (?), while the other is not being reset (solar months)
.... am not sure that but that is how I understand.

Thus, the picture will be:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ....... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _....... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _...._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _......_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ there will always comes a point in time that the last day of one system can be aligned with any day of the other system

Thus, with that being reset, the link therefore seems to conclude:

To quote:
“Part Two The Sabbath
All of this means, is that the Sabbath can occur on any day of the Julian/Gregorian calendar, whether a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, etc.,”


Thus, google some links and some proposed that “reset” is not a practice…


https://www.bibletools.org/index.cf...10/Seventh-Day-Not-Reset-with-Lunar-Month.htm

Bible verses about Seventh Day Not Reset with Lunar Month

(From Forerunner Commentary)

Genesis 2:3

For millennia, most of the world has been using a week of seven days. These seven days continuously repeat in their accustomed order week after week after week. The first day of the week invariably follows the seventh day of the previous week with enduring regularity. That is how it has always been.

Thus, with that proposal, the picture will be:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ the same with the first picture mentioned above, the two travels at same time, no reset, thus, there will be an exact equivalent that day to the other system.


I don’t know…

But it sure pays to take a rest one day in week…

I read some scientific article on that resting at least a day in week is healthy….

Hi aha

Yes I think you've understood it. The best way I have found to explain it, is to first of all show the history of how the development of the Roman 7 day week was totally separate from the Israelite 7 day week, which had been in existence long before the Roman 7 day week was created in 45BC. This is vital to understand first, otherwise the mind finds it hard to accept the truth about how the Israelite Calendar really works, as explained in the scriptures. I'm the first to admit it is not easy to understand all of it but once you learn about God's Calendar and how it is the most accurate and sensible Calendar there is, then it all makes sense.

 

[Truthfrees]

Hi aha

Yes I think you've understood it. The best way I have found to explain it, is to first of all show the history of how the development of the Roman 7 day week was totally separate from the Israelite 7 day week, which had been in existence long before the Roman 7 day week was created in 45BC. This is vital to understand first, otherwise the mind finds it hard to accept the truth about how the Israelite Calendar really works, as explained in the scriptures. I'm the first to admit it is not easy to understand all of it but once you learn about God's Calendar and how it is the most accurate and sensible Calendar there is, then it all makes sense.

so how would you describe God's 7 day week in the simplest way possible?

 

[Truthfrees]

To visualize what I read or quickly browsed the link:
https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

Imagine two 7 inches (day) long stick travelling at the same speed ie: synchronized although but one is a day or so ahead of the other
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ the last line/dash is always a day or so ahead

THEREFORE: the other system should have exact or equivalent day to the other

The link seems to proposed that the other 7 inches long is being reset on each month (lunar months), that is: it will begin with day 1 at each month (?), while the other is not being reset (solar months)
.... am not sure that but that is how I understand.

Thus, the picture will be:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ....... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _....... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _...._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _......_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ there will always comes a point in time that the last day of one system can be aligned with any day of the other system

Thus, with that being reset, the link therefore seems to conclude:

To quote:
“Part Two The Sabbath
All of this means, is that the Sabbath can occur on any day of the Julian/Gregorian calendar, whether a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, etc.,”


Thus, google some links and some proposed that “reset” is not a practice…


https://www.bibletools.org/index.cf...10/Seventh-Day-Not-Reset-with-Lunar-Month.htm

Bible verses about Seventh Day Not Reset with Lunar Month

(From Forerunner Commentary)

Genesis 2:3

For millennia, most of the world has been using a week of seven days. These seven days continuously repeat in their accustomed order week after week after week. The first day of the week invariably follows the seventh day of the previous week with enduring regularity. That is how it has always been.

Thus, with that proposal, the picture will be:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
......... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ the same with the first picture mentioned above, the two travels at same time, no reset, thus, there will be an exact equivalent that day to the other system.


I don’t know…

But it sure pays to take a rest one day in week…

I read some scientific article on that resting at least a day in week is healthy….

what is being reset?

i agree with resting at least 1 day / week

God Bless you

 

[Christian Guy]

so how would you describe God's 7 day week in the simplest way possible?

In my experience unless someone can understand that the Israelite 7 day week and the Roman 7 day week were developed separately and are not in sync, or at the very least realise that there is only a 1 in 7 chance that they could be in sync (even thought they are not), then there is little hope in that person believing how the ancient Israelite Calendar really works as describe in the scriptures, because it not only involves a complex and deep study of the Bible but the way in which God's Calendar actually works is so very different to the Roman Julian Gregorian calendar that we are so used to as we have all grown up with it and it has been around for so long (2062 years). I say all this as I'm not convinced you can see what I am saying about them being separate and have not accepted that fact and therefore will most likely not accept any further information I have put forward (which I hasten to add is in the OP anyway). Basically you must put in the time by reading and or watching the links in order to understand how god's Calendar works, because if I were to tell you in one sentence you would not believe me. Trust me I've done this dozens of times over the internet and it has never worked that way. It only works if the person can take the information on board first that the Roman and ancient Israelite calendars are totally separate.

 

[aha]

what is being reset?

i agree with resting at least 1 day / week

God Bless you

Oh my, am not sure how I went into the middle of this discussion, and I went into many links of difference opinions, but I enjoy what am reading so far

Maybe, as a background, am working in a logistics company, Operations department… so I am into many company meetings with not so few disagreements, thus, I like to simplify things, and pinpoint the main difference,,, so am posting more on to understand the difference:


Say comparing 2 calendar system.

Let us take out the name of the day first (ie: Sun, Mon, etc)

Calendar system no. 1
Month 1
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30
Month 2
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30


Calendar system no. 2
Month 1
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30
Month 2
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30


No need to look for the difference above, the numbers in the 2 system are exactly the same.


The main difference is: when we put the "name of the day" for the first day of the second month

say the 30th day of Month 1 is Monday:

In calendar no. 1, month 2: day 1 will be Tuesday (because what follow Monday is Tuesday)
In calendar no. 2, month 2: day 1 will always be Sunday (first day of the week)


Thus, in Calendar no. 2, it is seen to “reset” to day 1 will be Sunday


Am not sure if calling it “reset” is a correct word, it can be seen as wrong word for those who believe in Calendar no. 2.
Day 1 is simply called a Sunday.

That is how I understand it...

Note:
As I understand it, Calendar 2 is similar to what they called "Lunar Sabbath" and the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day are always a "Saturday" , .... when I google it, they have their own bible verses to support... although I have a question in my mind, day 1 will also be a "Saturday"... but I think what I learned now is fine for now...

 

[Christian Guy]

Oh my, am not sure how I went into the middle of this discussion, and I went into many links of difference opinions, but I enjoy what am reading so far

Maybe, as a background, am working in a logistics company, Operations department… so I am into many company meetings with not so few disagreements, thus, I like to simplify things, and pinpoint the main difference,,, so am posting more on to understand the difference:


Say comparing 2 calendar system.

Let us take out the name of the day first (ie: Sun, Mon, etc)

Calendar system no. 1
Month 1
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30
Month 2
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30


Calendar system no. 2
Month 1
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30
Month 2
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30


No need to look for the difference above, the numbers in the 2 system are exactly the same.


The main difference is: when we put the "name of the day" for the first day of the second month

say the 30th day of Month 1 is Monday:

In calendar no. 1, month 2: day 1 will be Tuesday (because what follow Monday is Tuesday)
In calendar no. 2, month 2: day 1 will always be Sunday (first day of the week)


Thus, in Calendar no. 2, it is seen to “reset” to day 1 will be Sunday


Am not sure if calling it “reset” is a correct word, it can be seen as wrong word for those who believe in Calendar no. 2.
Day 1 is simply called a Sunday.

That is how I understand it...

Note:
As I understand it, Calendar 2 is similar to what they called "Lunar Sabbath" and the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day are always a "Saturday" , .... when I google it, they have their own bible verses to support... although I have a question in my mind, day 1 will also be a "Saturday"... but I think what I learned now is fine for now...

You are on the right lines, that is a basic understanding of it but there is more to it to understand as you allude to. Thanks for taking the time to study it I pray that it blesses you as it has me.

 

[Truthfrees]

In my experience unless someone can understand that the Israelite 7 day week and the Roman 7 day week were developed separately and are not in sync, or at the very least realise that there is only a 1 in 7 chance that they could be in sync (even thought they are not), then there is little hope in that person believing how the ancient Israelite Calendar really works as describe in the scriptures, because it not only involves a complex and deep study of the Bible but the way in which God's Calendar actually works is so very different to the Roman Julian Gregorian calendar that we are so used to as we have all grown up with it and it has been around for so long (2062 years). I say all this as I'm not convinced you can see what I am saying about them being separate and have not accepted that fact and therefore will most likely not accept any further information I have put forward (which I hasten to add is in the OP anyway). Basically you must put in the time by reading and or watching the links in order to understand how god's Calendar works, because if I were to tell you in one sentence you would not believe me. Trust me I've done this dozens of times over the internet and it has never worked that way. It only works if the person can take the information on board first that the Roman and ancient Israelite calendars are totally separate.

i don't think you understand the Jewish Calendar

there are only 29 or 30 days in a Jewish calendar and there are 12 - 13 months

here are a few links that may help you understand - they all say basically the same thing in very simple easy to understand terms:

1. http://www.aish.com/jewish-calendar/Jewish_Calendar.html

2. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/months-of-the-jewish-year/

3. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526874/jewish/The-Jewish-Month.htm

the links you provided are long and complicated

i was hoping you could simplify it

if you can't that is ok - but please don't accuse me of some negative motives/character/behavior

 

[Truthfrees]

Oh my, am not sure how I went into the middle of this discussion, and I went into many links of difference opinions, but I enjoy what am reading so far

Maybe, as a background, am working in a logistics company, Operations department… so I am into many company meetings with not so few disagreements, thus, I like to simplify things, and pinpoint the main difference,,, so am posting more on to understand the difference:


Say comparing 2 calendar system.

Let us take out the name of the day first (ie: Sun, Mon, etc)

Calendar system no. 1
Month 1
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30
Month 2
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30


Calendar system no. 2
Month 1
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30
Month 2
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30


No need to look for the difference above, the numbers in the 2 system are exactly the same.


The main difference is: when we put the "name of the day" for the first day of the second month

say the 30th day of Month 1 is Monday:

In calendar no. 1, month 2: day 1 will be Tuesday (because what follow Monday is Tuesday)
In calendar no. 2, month 2: day 1 will always be Sunday (first day of the week)


Thus, in Calendar no. 2, it is seen to “reset” to day 1 will be Sunday


Am not sure if calling it “reset” is a correct word, it can be seen as wrong word for those who believe in Calendar no. 2.
Day 1 is simply called a Sunday.

That is how I understand it...

Note:
As I understand it, Calendar 2 is similar to what they called "Lunar Sabbath" and the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day are always a "Saturday" , .... when I google it, they have their own bible verses to support... although I have a question in my mind, day 1 will also be a "Saturday"... but I think what I learned now is fine for now...

thanks my friend for trying to simplify

God Bless you for that

i'm interested in anything you can figure out from all these links

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Moderators Friendly Reminder

It's ok to let some one know they are misunderstanding what you are saying.

There is no need in abrupt accusations
No matter how one sugar coats them.

Please keep this thread running Peacefully as it has been under review, otherwise it may be closed and points may be issued.

Have very blessed day

 

[Truthfrees]

this thread is very confusing

it says what day is the Sabbath? - the answer is Saturday the 7th day of the week

other than that i do not understand what the OP is trying to say - is he saying Saturday is not the Sabbath?

as aha said the links are all contradictory - nothing is supporting any specific point - so what exactly is the point of this thread?

the OP is very long, complicated and drawn out - suggesting that we do not understand what the Sabbath is - yet he can't clarify his own position - he just wants us all to study several contradictory and hard to understand links

i think the point of this thread needs to be clarified

 

[Christian Guy]

i don't think you understand the Jewish Calendar

there are only 29 or 30 days in a Jewish calendar and there are 12 - 13 months

here are a few links that may help you understand - they all say basically the same thing in very simple easy to understand terms:

1. http://www.aish.com/jewish-calendar/Jewish_Calendar.html

2. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/months-of-the-jewish-year/

3. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526874/jewish/The-Jewish-Month.htm

the links you provided are long and complicated

i was hoping you could simplify it

If you can't that is ok - but please don't accuse me of some negative motives/character/behavior

The ancient Jewish calendar is different to the modern Jewish calendar that was created in 359AD by Rabbi Hillel II. As aha has correctly understood the Sabbath according to God's Calendar fall on days 8, 15, 22 & 29 of each lunar month and are therefore not on Saturday (or Sunday etc) but can fall on any of the Julian/Gregorian days Monday through Sunday.

This can be hard to accept but the evidence is clear that the lunar Sabbath was gradually lost to history starting 70AD when the diaspora began to 359 AD when Hillel II finally accepted that the Jews around the world who had been using the new Roman 7 day rolling week for several generations would not be able to go back to the original lunar Sabbath because the new Roman rolling 7 day week was being used throughout the known world and also because the lunar Sabbath could not be kept as the Jews had been banned from living Jerusalem since the Simon Bar Kokhba revolt in 132AD, which meant they could no longer sight the new moon from Jerusalem and therefore could not know when each month really began and thus could not know when the lunar Sabbaths really were.

Hillel therefore created a new Jewish calendar in 359AD and used a 19 year mathematical equation to approximate the start of each month (as your links show) but crucially Hillel gave up any notion of trying to keep the lunar weeks fixed to the lunar cycle as before. As I said this is a complicated matter but the links in the OP do not contradict but it does take time to study, I am merely scratching the surface here. I hope this helps and feel free to ask me anything else. God bless you for your interest.