Who you talking to?
What Do I Do With My Tarot Cards?
- Thread starter Polly
- Start date
Jesus Freak
Previously DanaCovert68
The person that started this thread. I would sell them to a non-Christian if you haven't. Getting rid of them is the same thing as selling them. But I would pray really hard on this subject.
RiverJordan
Inactive
I never had a comment for Rev 12:4. It is the first time it has hit me. I googled some commentary on it and I agree with this explanation. It makes perfect sense.
''When John tells us that the devils' tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to earth, he is describing the original demonic uprising against God.
IOW, you don't read it literally.
Did you look at the quotes from the bible I posted? Do you believe those? I never said the Bible was written by backward, uneducated people. What I said is that while the bible was inspired by God, it was assembled and edited by man over 2000 years ago and is influenced by the thinking of the time. In Ezekiel 14:9 God himself admits to deceiving his prophet. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John each give differing accounts about how the resurrection took place. Do you believe all of them even if they contradict each other? If not, how do you decide which account is more credible? You have to recognize that if man had a hand in writing the Bible, that man's faults will find its way into the pages.
Instead of calling me an atheist or someone new to Christianity, tell me where I'm wrong exactly. I am not new to Christianity, I'm just someone who has actually read the bible in it's entirety. I am someone who believes that good Christians don't sell their daughter into slavery, and that men and women are equally sinful. If you also believe these things, you are admitting that some things in the Bible simply don't apply to modern times.
Correct some things do not apply to Gentiles or apply to us today as they are not laws of our land or whatever. Problem is people then look at the things they do not like or agree with and decide they do not apply today, homosexuality is one example. Trying to pass off demon possession and exorcism of those demons recorded in the Bible as just a misunderstanding of mental illness, is a disgraceful claim to make, What next? Claiming that Mary was not really a virgin?
Friend, I won't say you are wrong, and reading through the bible is a good thing, we try to read through the Bible every year, and in so doing we find the Holy Spirit will illuminate passages that we have read 10, 100 times already and we see Jesus more clearly every time.
Concerning Matthew, Mark, Luke and John having so called discrepancies, we must believe in faith that the Holy Spirit inspired each writer to write the message He want to reveal in each book, for instance, Matthew was written to the Jews to prove Jesus was their Messiah/King, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, Matthew's genealogy reveals Jesus has the authority to be King/Messiah through his step-dad Joesph, he also write the constitution for the Kingdom during the Millennium and many more proofs that Jesus was their Messiah/King, Mark was inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus as a lowly, humble Servant (servants don't need genealogies), Luke was inspired by the Holy Spirit to present Jesus as a Man, the Last Adam, his genealogy proved that Jesus had the legal right to be Messiah/King, to sit on the throne of His father David and John was inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus as the Word or Logos, the Son of God, two interchangeable titles for the second person of the Trinity, without beginning or end, hence no genealogy.
Those examples don't even scratch the surface of the wealth of Truth presented in the Gospels and just to give us a little more proof and to dispel doubt, to tie it all together, the symbol used in Matthew for Jesus is a lion, Mark an ox, Luke a Man and John an eagle, these are the four faces of the four Cherubim which is another interesting study I will leave for you to inquire of the Father to explain.
As for men adding to the Word I must humbly ask you how big is your god, is He the Creature of the Universe, the Almighty, the Alpha and the Omega, the same One who declares there is nothing impossible for Me, or is your god a tiny, impotent god that lives in the box you have created for him?
I'm certain and don't retain any doubt that my God can and has placed a copy of His unadulterated Word in my hands to read, follow and appropriate all of the promises, encouragements, blessings and warnings it contains.
Hopefully this will stimulate you to prayerfully study the Word as you read it, talk it over with Father, ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate Jesus in what you are reading.
In His Love,
Gene
I have always been against using the bible to justify hate, or to self righteously point to a group of people and say "God hates them". Usually whatever passage they use to promote their way of thinking is taken out of context, or passages that say otherwise are systematically ignored. As far as possession goes, if you look at history, those with mental illness were usually thought to have some sort of spiritual malady. Whether it is possession or otherwise, how is it disgraceful to point out that people at the time had no understanding of mental illness? None, nada, zilch. Maybe they were possessed by demons, but people then would not no the difference between that and someone with schizophrenia.
Btw, the bible also says thought occurs in the heart, conscience in the kidneys, etc... So how do you decide what is God's word and what is that of man? Do the rules concerning the Sabbath still apply? i.e. Numbers 15:32-36 A man gathers sticks on the Sabbath, and the Lord demands that he be put to death. Is that how Christians should live? If you don't believe breaking the Sabbath should be punishable by death, how did you decide that homosexuals should be condemned?
Thank you for responding, I appreciate that we can disagree without being uncivil. I just have trouble with certain passages that depict God as angry, jealous, violent, and unmerciful. He is utterly at odds with my God who is an infinite well of love, forgiveness, and redemption. The Bible is very confusing, it says the Lord sought to kill Moses. Why would he seek to kill his own prophet? Moreover, that seems to imply God "sought" to do something, when he could just snap his fingers and it would be done. Also, the campaigns that many in the Bible partake in are full of unbridled violence, rape, and unnecessary cruelty.
Ezekiel 23:47
People such as Joshua, David, Samson, Jehu, and many more commit these atrocities with the Lord's blessing and approval. Ezekiel 23:25
In Ezekiel 21:3-4 it seems to not matter whether you are righteous or wicked, that all incur his wrath. In Matthew 10:35-36 it says he seeks to turn families against each other! Psalms 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. How can the Bible condone killing children?
Polly, you did the right thing. I was Pagan for 15 years, and nothing good ever came of it. A lot of really bad things happen when you mess with that kind of stuff and, as was said before, your soul is worth much more than that. Any kind of divination is a sin and it opens the door to Satan. Just remember, God will love you no matter what. Don't worry if God doesn't respond to your prayer right away because He will always give you what you need, even if it's something you didn't think you needed. He really does work in mysterious ways. If you need to talk about anything, please feel free to message me. I've been down this road before as well. God bless.
That verse is easily readable as there is other scripture supporting it that says a third of the angels fell. 'Man of God' posted a good post earlier explaining the need to deal with scripture and provide support for an alternate view. Saying we don't see it literally must never result in us ignoring it. You can't justify ignoring the scripture stating they were cast to earth on the basis that Rev 12:4 is not 'literal'. Besides the only non-literal part to it is angels = stars.
RiverJordan
Inactive
KingJ,
My point is, you were reading that depiction in Revelation somewhat literally when it suited you (the numbers), but not when doing so causes obvious problems.
My point is, you were reading that depiction in Revelation somewhat literally when it suited you (the numbers), but not when doing so causes obvious problems.
I never had a comment for Rev 12:4. It is the first time it has hit me. I googled some commentary on it and I agree with this explanation. It makes perfect sense
''When John tells us that the devils' tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to earth, he is describing the original demonic uprising against God.
Satan somehow managed to convince a third of all God's angels to join him in his rebellion; these beings we now call "demons" or "fallen angels." They serve Satan and play an important role in the judgments of the Tribulation.
We see here, also, the woman about to birth, and this is the birth of Jesus the Christ.
Satan used Herod to try to kill Jesus the moment He was born. That was not God's plan, so Jesus was protected until the time of the cross. This also indicates here the birth of the church, which the devil has tried to devour every way he could.''
Just a tip. If you want to study Revelations look up 'th1bill's' threads on it. He went through it in detail.
Nice, I had a post that shared similar sentiments.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/the-controversy-between-christ-and-satan.36630/
The numbers never 'suited' me. I couldn't care less if there are a million or a billion. John is seeing things that are amazing him. Using some funny words and colorful language makes perfect sense to him but requires us to look at it a bit closer at what he says... but certainly not come anywhere near ignoring , writing off or making him out to be a liar. He won't be impressed with that one-day when we meet him.
He saw thousands and thousands and 10 000 times 100 000. I am sure he could count / had a good grasp for the numbers that he saw.
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RiverJordan
Inactive
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight....that was the point of the whole thing...a counting exercise.
That was a good post. Not sure how I missed it.
RiverJordan
Inactive
It means that I think by focusing on the "how many" question, you're missing the larger point, similar to what I think of your approach to Genesis 1.
What is the larger point with the quoted verses?
Yes....I believe we can!
The person behind the process can the one afflicted by demons, not the cards or readings or such.
But the reality of this is that the person doing it is not necessaceraly demon possesed, but in fact has learned how to pray on the weakness of humans who are always looking for the easy way out. Something for nothing.
These people who belive in psychic abilities will refuse the Word of God and the Lord Jesus but then will turn to and believe some fool who can read their actions and facial expressions and then grab their money.
IMHO it is more fraud and fake mixed with mirrors and smoke than it is demonic, although there is certainly that element included. I believe we must always be carful to not give more credit to Satan than he deserves.
IMHO the "literal" approach to understanding the Scriptures is the most effective way.
The Bible will tell you when there is a poem, or prayer, or a metaphor. I believe that every one knows that when the Bible says that God is our "ROCK" it does not mean literally that he is some kind of hard round stone. We understand the logic and the use of a word to symbolize the meaning the writer had in mind.
So then in Rev. 12:4 and anyone is welcome to disagree with me by the way, it seems to me that the "tail" symbolizes the delusive power of Isaiah 9:15.....................
"The ancient and honerable he is the head, and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the "TAIL".
That tells us that Satan used his power to accomplish the moral ruin of those in high positions. But he is not successful with all, only a third.