What do you think was God`s Purpose in making - the Nations, Israel and the Body of Christ?

[BibleLover]

I agree that only because of Jesus can we ever be near God`s holy presence. However, I don`t believe we will `see` God the Father as He is Spirit.

Now, would you agree that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven FROM God, so therefore God the Father will still be in the highest heaven?

And the throne that is in the New Jerusalem will be His power and authority, and His dwelling with men will be by His Holy Spirit?

Just a small point, not to be pedantic but tranferring the five human senses into eternity doesn’t make sense because of the limitations imposed upon those senses by the forces of creation. Spiritual perceptions in eternity cannot be understood by us until we die. I can't even speculate about the nature of spiritual perceptions, but they will be far beyond anything our words can express. One thing is certain: we will EXPERIENCE God in a manner we could never dream of now.

 

[Major]

I agree that only because of Jesus can we ever be near God`s holy presence. However, I don`t believe we will `see` God the Father as He is Spirit.

Now, would you agree that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven FROM God, so therefore God the Father will still be in the highest heaven?

And the throne that is in the New Jerusalem will be His power and authority, and His dwelling with men will be by His Holy Spirit?

All of those are good questions. I think that by now you know that I am a Bible person and teach it in a literal fashion.

So, will wee see God face to face in heaven is what you are asking.
IMHO and in MY understanding of the Scriptures I say YES.
In Matthew 5:8 God said.......
“Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.”

The apostle Paul writes in 1 Corth. 13:12..........
“For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face”.

From those Scriptures I am convinced that In heaven, we’ll be in the presence of the Lord, and we’ll see him face to face.

My favorite verse about seeing God is 1 John 3:2.........
“Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.”
Honestly, I do not know how that can be debated.

Then you asked if God the Father would be in New Jerusalem or stay in heaven's highest place?

Again, relying only on the Scriptures in Revelation 21:2 and also vs. 10 I see that New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God.
Then in 2 21:3 God tells us that after it descends from heaven “the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.”

We also understand that there was also no temple in the New Jerusalem city because God and the lamb (Christ) are its temple (21:22).

God’s throne is in the city and his people will see his face in 22:3-4.
The Greek word for “people” is plural “Peoples.” God’s people in the New Jerusalem are multi-ethnic.

 

[Marilyn C]

All of those are good questions. I think that by now you know that I am a Bible person and teach it in a literal fashion.

So, will wee see God face to face in heaven is what you are asking.
IMHO and in MY understanding of the Scriptures I say YES.
In Matthew 5:8 God said.......
“Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.”

The apostle Paul writes in 1 Corth. 13:12..........
“For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face”.

From those Scriptures I am convinced that In heaven, we’ll be in the presence of the Lord, and we’ll see him face to face.

My favorite verse about seeing God is 1 John 3:2.........
“Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.”
Honestly, I do not know how that can be debated.

Then you asked if God the Father would be in New Jerusalem or stay in heaven's highest place?

Again, relying only on the Scriptures in Revelation 21:2 and also vs. 10 I see that New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God.
Then in 2 21:3 God tells us that after it descends from heaven “the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.”

We also understand that there was also no temple in the New Jerusalem city because God and the lamb (Christ) are its temple (21:22).

God’s throne is in the city and his people will see his face in 22:3-4.
The Greek word for “people” is plural “Peoples.” God’s people in the New Jerusalem are multi-ethnic.

Thank you agaian for explaining your view. Now I have more questions but because we are packing and then travelling, I will have to leave those for another day.

God bless, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

All of those are good questions. I think that by now you know that I am a Bible person and teach it in a literal fashion.

So, will wee see God face to face in heaven is what you are asking.
IMHO and in MY understanding of the Scriptures I say YES.
In Matthew 5:8 God said.......
“Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.”

The apostle Paul writes in 1 Corth. 13:12..........
“For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face”.

From those Scriptures I am convinced that In heaven, we’ll be in the presence of the Lord, and we’ll see him face to face.

My favorite verse about seeing God is 1 John 3:2.........
“Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.”
Honestly, I do not know how that can be debated.

Then you asked if God the Father would be in New Jerusalem or stay in heaven's highest place?

Again, relying only on the Scriptures in Revelation 21:2 and also vs. 10 I see that New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God.
Then in 2 21:3 God tells us that after it descends from heaven “the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.”

We also understand that there was also no temple in the New Jerusalem city because God and the lamb (Christ) are its temple (21:22).

God’s throne is in the city and his people will see his face in 22:3-4.
The Greek word for “people” is plural “Peoples.” God’s people in the New Jerusalem are multi-ethnic.

I will ask this though. Yes, literal but in line with all of God`s word.

All the `face to face, and see,` are in reference to the visible glorified Son of God, and NOT the Father for God`s word says -

...who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power.` (1 Tim. 6: 16)

 

[Marilyn C]

Please don't laugh at me.... I don't know why I think as I do with regards to the THRONE ROOM. Perhaps it has been because of WORSHIPPING in the past.

This is how I see the THRONE ROOM.... Because of JESUS... Christians are able to approach His FATHER
WE enter the Throne Room by our prayers and petitions... .and then by our WORSHIP to GOD.
While on earth.... we cannot see the physical THRONE ROOM of heaven.... but I for one have FELT the PRESENCE of GOD in my WORSHIP.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Once we are dead... and in spirit form.... I believe we will be able to enter the REAL THRONE ROOM .... however... there will be NO MORE prayer or petition...... only WORSHIP and ADORATION.

Again... I do not know WHY I believe this... and I do stand to be corrected if I'm totally off the moon on this.

The THRONE ROOM is something that I have been so deeply connected to ( even if in my imagination )... I think of WORSHIP a lot... and the THRONE ROOM is where I enter to give PRAISE...THANKSGIVING and ADORATION. It's ALL I have to offer.

That is so well written sister. I also think I will just gaze upon the Lord and worship Him for eternity.

 

[Major]

I will ask this though. Yes, literal but in line with all of God`s word.

All the `face to face, and see,` are in reference to the visible glorified Son of God, and NOT the Father for God`s word says -

...who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power.` (1 Tim. 6: 16)

I disagree.

So you are rejecting Matthew 5:8 but believing that 1 Tim. 6:16 somehow invalidates what God literally said. Think about what you are saying.

I take Matthew 5:8 where God said.....“Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God"----as God saying exactly what He wanted to say.
Now I agree completly that No One has "seen" God. However, seen and will see are two different things. As I gave to you, all believers will have glorified bodies just like Jesus has now.

1 Corth. 15:52-53.......
"in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

1 Corth. 15:42-44.........
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body".

1 John 3:2...............
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
As I said, I do not agree with your opinion, however, if you are correct......isn't The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all one?

John 14:9 comfirms this........
“even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father” ?

 

[Major]

Thank you agaian for explaining your view. Now I have more questions but because we are packing and then travelling, I will have to leave those for another day.

God bless, Marilyn.

Be safe and try to fo through the "Holy Lands".............Alabama!

 

[Major]

Just a small point, not to be pedantic but tranferring the five human senses into eternity doesn’t make sense because of the limitations imposed upon those senses by the forces of creation. Spiritual perceptions in eternity cannot be understood by us until we die. I can't even speculate about the nature of spiritual perceptions, but they will be far beyond anything our words can express. One thing is certain: we will EXPERIENCE God in a manner we could never dream of now.

Amen!

 

[Marilyn C]

I disagree.

So you are rejecting Matthew 5:8 but believing that 1 Tim. 6:16 somehow invalidates what God literally said. Think about what you are saying.

I take Matthew 5:8 where God said.....“Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God"----as God saying exactly what He wanted to say.
Now I agree completly that No One has "seen" God. However, seen and will see are two different things. As I gave to you, all believers will have glorified bodies just like Jesus has now.

1 Corth. 15:52-53.......
"in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

1 Corth. 15:42-44.........
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body".

1 John 3:2...............
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
As I said, I do not agree with your opinion, however, if you are correct......isn't The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all one?

John 14:9 comfirms this........
“even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father” ?

Let me put it succinctly.

God is Spirit. (John 4: 24) `...whom no man has seen or can see,...` (1 Tim. 6: 16)

Jesus has a visible glorified body. `Behold my hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.` (Luke 24: 39)

Seeing Jesus, the image of the Father, we have then `seen` the Father. Meaning the character of Christ is the character of the Father.

 

[Major]

Let me put it succinctly.

God is Spirit. (John 4: 24) `...whom no man has seen or can see,...` (1 Tim. 6: 16)

Jesus has a visible glorified body. `Behold my hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.` (Luke 24: 39)

Seeing Jesus, the image of the Father, we have then `seen` the Father. Meaning the character of Christ is the character of the Father.

"Succinctly" or Clearly is the only way I know how to speak. Better yet, what I speak is called APCBL.
(Alabama Plain Country Boy Language).

When we get to heaven we will have the same kind of body and mind of the Lord Jesus Christ. We will have a body in heaven, and it will be the same body we have now. God redeems the whole person, body, soul, and spirit. But our resurrected body will be “heavenly”
as seen in 1 Corth, 15:40 and “imperishable” in verse 42, "glorified" in verse 43, “spiritual" in verse 44, immortal in verse 53, and bearing Christ’s image in verse 49. So, clearly, and succinctly, a lot will change, but we will not lose our identity. You will still be you.

Now, What age we will appear to be?
Will the texture of our hair stay the same?
Will we have the same eye color?
The same fingerprints?
NO ONE knows because the Bible does not tell us.

I understand that you are promoting the idea that because God the Father is a spirit, we will not "see" him as we will see Jesus Christ.

Marilyn, As a Trinitarian, I accept and believe that the three Persons of the Trinity are coeternal, coequal, and co-powerful and together make up the God - Head. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

So then, in heaven, there are three Persons of the Godhead. But will we be able to see all three Persons?
Now I do not know anyone who can answer that dogmatically and definitely.

What I will do is give my personal opinion backed by the Scripture that causes me to believe what I believe.

Revelation 4:3, & 6 gives us a description of heaven and the throne that is occupied by God and by the Lamb: .........
“The ONE who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. . . . Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.”

Since God dwells in “unapproachable light” and is one “whom no one has seen or can see” (1 Timothy 6:16), God is described in terms of the reflected brilliance of precious stones. First Corinthians 2:9 says,........
“No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him”.

That seems to indicate that Because of God’s holiness, it may be assumed that we will never be able to look upon His face, but this is speculation.(IMHO).

Revelation 5:6 ........
"And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth."

Seven (7) in Bible stands of "Completeness/omniscience".
Horns represent "Power.
This Scripture takes us into the Throne room of the Trinity....." And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne".

This tells us that, in heaven, the Lamb stands in the center of the throne, and there are descriptions of Him clothed in brilliant white. Since the Lamb represents Christ Jesus, and we know that human eyes have beheld Him after His resurrection, it seems reasonable to conclude that, in heaven, we will be able to look upon Him.

However, it is clear to me that John is allowed to see God on His throne, with Jesus on His right hand surrounded by the Hoy Spirit.

I will at the time of my glorification when I see what John saw, admitt that I was wrong. Mere mortals do not have the ability to grasp the wonders of heaven—it is entirely beyond our comprehension. Whatever heaven is like, it will far exceed our wildest imaginings!
What we know is that we will be worshiping our great God as our hearts are filled with wonder that He died to save sinners.

 

[Marilyn C]

"Succinctly" or Clearly is the only way I know how to speak. Better yet, what I speak is called APCBL.
(Alabama Plain Country Boy Language).

When we get to heaven we will have the same kind of body and mind of the Lord Jesus Christ. We will have a body in heaven, and it will be the same body we have now. God redeems the whole person, body, soul, and spirit. But our resurrected body will be “heavenly”
as seen in 1 Corth, 15:40 and “imperishable” in verse 42, "glorified" in verse 43, “spiritual" in verse 44, immortal in verse 53, and bearing Christ’s image in verse 49. So, clearly, and succinctly, a lot will change, but we will not lose our identity. You will still be you.

Now, What age we will appear to be?
Will the texture of our hair stay the same?
Will we have the same eye color?
The same fingerprints?
NO ONE knows because the Bible does not tell us.

I understand that you are promoting the idea that because God the Father is a spirit, we will not "see" him as we will see Jesus Christ.

Marilyn, As a Trinitarian, I accept and believe that the three Persons of the Trinity are coeternal, coequal, and co-powerful and together make up the God - Head. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

So then, in heaven, there are three Persons of the Godhead. But will we be able to see all three Persons?
Now I do not know anyone who can answer that dogmatically and definitely.

What I will do is give my personal opinion backed by the Scripture that causes me to believe what I believe.

Revelation 4:3, & 6 gives us a description of heaven and the throne that is occupied by God and by the Lamb: .........
“The ONE who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. . . . Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.”

Since God dwells in “unapproachable light” and is one “whom no one has seen or can see” (1 Timothy 6:16), God is described in terms of the reflected brilliance of precious stones. First Corinthians 2:9 says,........
“No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him”.

That seems to indicate that Because of God’s holiness, it may be assumed that we will never be able to look upon His face, but this is speculation.(IMHO).

Revelation 5:6 ........
"And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth."

Seven (7) in Bible stands of "Completeness/omniscience".
Horns represent "Power.
This Scripture takes us into the Throne room of the Trinity....." And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne".

This tells us that, in heaven, the Lamb stands in the center of the throne, and there are descriptions of Him clothed in brilliant white. Since the Lamb represents Christ Jesus, and we know that human eyes have beheld Him after His resurrection, it seems reasonable to conclude that, in heaven, we will be able to look upon Him.

However, it is clear to me that John is allowed to see God on His throne, with Jesus on His right hand surrounded by the Hoy Spirit.

I will at the time of my glorification when I see what John saw, admitt that I was wrong. Mere mortals do not have the ability to grasp the wonders of heaven—it is entirely beyond our comprehension. Whatever heaven is like, it will far exceed our wildest imaginings!
What we know is that we will be worshiping our great God as our hearts are filled with wonder that He died to save sinners.

Hi Major,

Yes I can hear that Southern drawl coming over loud and clear. (ha, ha)

Now you are saying `we will have the same body as we have now.` However, I believe God`s word gives us a bit more detail.

`It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body....As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are heavenly.` (1 Cor. 15: 44 & 48)

So we read that our new bodies are ` heavenly spiritual bodies.` As you said - immortal and uncorruptible. Also, we will NOT have blood, where the natural life is, but we will have the Holy Spirit energizing us in a greater way than now.

We will not have male or female physical differences but be the New Man which I believe is of both characteristics.

`For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face (with Jesus and each other). Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.`(1 Cor. 13: 12)

I understand that to mean that what we see with our spiritual eyes of the Lord in each other will remain while all earthly physical element will be gone.

What do you think, Major, (& others).

 

[Major]

Hi Major,

Yes I can hear that Southern drawl coming over loud and clear. (ha, ha)

Now you are saying `we will have the same body as we have now.` However, I believe God`s word gives us a bit more detail.

`It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body....As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are heavenly.` (1 Cor. 15: 44 & 48)

So we read that our new bodies are ` heavenly spiritual bodies.` As you said - immortal and uncorruptible. Also, we will NOT have blood, where the natural life is, but we will have the Holy Spirit energizing us in a greater way than now.

We will not have male or female physical differences but be the New Man which I believe is of both characteristics.

`For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face (with Jesus and each other). Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.`(1 Cor. 13: 12)

I understand that to mean that what we see with our spiritual eyes of the Lord in each other will remain while all earthly physical element will be gone.

What do you think, Major, (& others).

I think that you are well educated in the Word of God. On top of that I for one appreciate the way you speak with respect to old men!

If I am allowed to add to your position, I would say that in 1 Corth. 15:35-54 Paul tells us that "our resurrected bodies are spiritual, imperishable, and raised in glory and power." Wont that be a welcome change?????

Then in 1 Corth. 15:50 we see that the resurrected body will be a spiritual one so I have no argument with that.
Our natural bodies are suited for living in this world, but this is the only realm in which we can live.
“Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 15:50).

It seems that After the resurrection we will have a “spiritual body,” perfectly suited for living in heaven.

What ever that means, it seems to me that the Bible tells us that in 1 Corth 13:12 .......
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

I have NO idea how God will work that out, however, I do not know how 100 tons of steel floats on the ocean either!

This of course this does not mean we have all the answers on this. I am not sure that it does not mean that we will be only spirits—spirits do not have bodies—but I think what we can know is that our resurrected bodies will not need physical sustenance or depend on natural means of supporting life and we will not be reproducing life functions.

As Allways, it is a blessing to speak with you on Biblical matters.